Valkyrie

SpitfireIV

Just seen the trailer for this movie, its in cinema's Friday.

Based on actual events, a plot to assassinate Hitler is unfurled during the height of WWII.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0985699/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBxK3frsbxA

Looks like a decent movie, except for two gripes I have, the first being that Tom Cruise is the main character and second, that its in English (the language is a big big gripe of mine!) for some reason I'd have a lot more respect for this movie had it been in German. The trailer seems typical, over blown, edge of the seat Hollywood (I was waiting to see someone running from a burning car before it blew up to be honest!).

Whats the concensus? Anyone rushing out to see this movie or will it just be one of those flicks that you'll see if there's nothing else on?

todolist

Not much tension watching this....I think we all know the Fuhrer got away.Oopss...just gave away the ending:D

bikki

Not a Tom Cruise fan,

At a press conference for the film he actually said he grew up wanting to kill Hitler and that he studied wwII history and document from the era. But then in the same breath admited he never knew there where assissnation atempts on Hitler intill he read the script.

:rolleyes:

Even i knew of this plot from history class's in school.

FuttBucker

i hate tom cruise but shall go see it anyway, this was the closest to being successful out of all the assassination attempts on hitler i believe so should be good

old boy

i was in n.y for christmas, and this was slated by the critics on tv. reviews were bad, and it was not expected to do well at the box office.

Illkillya

I saw this a couple of weeks ago... interesting story, and some nice history bits (like seeing Hitler's residence in the mountains, assuming it was filmed on location). Good tension at times. They went a bit too far with the "we have to show the world that we weren't all like him". I enjoyed it overall, but Tom Cruise was completely wrong for the lead role.

Savman

Illkillya wrote: »

Tom Cruise was completely wrong for the lead role.

I've been thinking that everytime the trailer comes on, I'm waiting for him to whip off the eye patch to reveal some hi-tech MI5 laser guided missile contraption :pac:

FionnMatthew

Apart from Cruise, it's quite a respectable cast!

Looks like overblown nonsense though.

It looks like it's torn between the depiction of the Nazis you get in Indiana Jones, and the depiction you get of them in Downfall.

One or other would be acceptable, but I can't see it as credible if the Nazis are Indy Nazis, and I can't just enjoy it as fun if it's trying to be credible.

Might give it a miss. Or just wait and see.

SpitfireIV

I'll probably catch it at some point myself............just so I can see how bad it is of course! :pac:

Speaking of war movies, anyone seen 'The Counterfeiters'? just watched it tonight, very enjoyable movie!!

speedboatchase

Has a good average on Rotten Tomatoes and did well in the U.S, if you can seperate the man and the actor Cruise has given us some great films so I have hope

FionnMatthew

speedboatchase wrote: »

if you can seperate the man and the actor

In his case I don't think I can.

senordingdong

They could have atleast tried German accents.

lostexpectation

how much was about these guys wanting to take over instead?

SpitfireIV

lostexpectation wrote: »

how much was about these guys wanting to take over instead?

Does that matter? Who would you rather have in control? Hitler or Tom Cruise......seriously?! :P

senordingdong

Scientology for all?

Hmmm....I wonder if Tom Cruise can make the trains run on time?

Mr.Applepie

Illkillya wrote: »

I saw this a couple of weeks ago... interesting story, and some nice history bits (like seeing Hitler's residence in the mountains, assuming it was filmed on location).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kehlsteinhaus

There are amazing views from up there

ekevosu

I watched the 6 minutes of the start released on apple trailers (www.apple.com/trailers) and it looks like it could be a good movie.

As for the OP's comment about the film not being in German - for the mainstream movie going public, they don't want to go to see a movie and have to read subtitles. I don't mind them at all but one of my housemates refuses to watch movies with subtitles. From what I saw of the start, they start off the movie speaking German and slowly drift into English.

Quint

Yeah, but not even German accents? I heard that all the good guys (the good ss members:rolleyes:) have english and american accents, and the bad guys have german ones.

TinCool

I'm off to the flicks to see it tonight. Just gonna sit back and eat my pop corn and enjoy it.

Running Bing

Quint wrote: »

Yeah, but not even German accents? I heard that all the good guys (the good ss members:rolleyes:) have english and american accents, and the bad guys have german ones.

Ha, I was thinking myself watching the trailer it would'nt be a very hard plot to rumble...just look for the lads who sound like they grew up in North Dakota.


This is a major gripe of mine....why are they speaking with American accents? same with Enemy at the gates. Its supposed to be Soviet Russia and they all sound like they just stepped of the set of great expectations.

Quint

I heard a clip of it on the radio and thought Tom Cruise played an american undercover or something. When I heard he was actually supposed to be german I almost shat my pants laughing! Maybe he's afraid of doing accents ever since he was ripped into for Far and Away

mike65

Babybing wrote: »

This is a major gripe of mine....why are they speaking with American accents? same with Enemy at the gates. Its supposed to be Soviet Russia and they all sound like they just stepped of the set of great expectations.

Ed Harris? (what the) Dickens?

Mossy Monk

Looking past the accents I really enjoyed it. One other problem I had was that Hitler sounded like a pussy. Nothing like what you hear in the old news reels.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Cruise and the director have said in interviews that they felt that if they weren't going to speak German it didn't make a bit of sense to just speak English in a German accent, and they thought it would just distract viewers or something...apparently they were wrong. :P
I reckong I'll probably go see this. Cruise is a muppet but he's well capable of being a very good actor, and the rest of the cast is pretty solid. It seems like it's much better than people were expecting it to be, though the trailer is a bit cringey...

321654

I thought this was a good watch.
All of the actors, including cruise did a good job.

I read a lot of reviews by critics who couldnt possibly have seen the movoe when they wrote the reviews. I hate that.

Maskhadov

quite interesting plot at the beginning but levels out near the end. Still very watchable.

robgordon

I don't get all the Tom Cruise hate. He's a fine actor, I think. This was a good movie as well

Lamper.sffc

robgordon wrote: »

I don't get all the Tom Cruise hate. He's a fine actor, I think. This was a good movie as well

Regardless of who tom cruise is. ( an As*hole by the way) It doesnt mean he is suddenly a bad actor. It just means its harder to stomach him in a movie regardless of acting ability.

PS. The man represents true evil, no question.

Thrill

It's getting some good reviews. I'm looking forward to seeing it.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/entertainment/mhsngbauqlkf/

SpitfireIV

Well, just back from seeing this movie!

What did I think? Well...........I'm almost ashamed to say that I actually thought it was a pretty decent movie! I did enjoy it. Ok, there is that issue of the language and I found it slightly odd that there were British, American and German actors all dressed as Germans, but talking in there native accents, it was odd, but, in saying that I think the begininning of the movie was well done!

The name of the movie is presented in German 'Walküre' and then turns into English 'Valkyrie', then for the first few minutes we hear Cruises character talking and writing in German, then it blends into English, I thought that was well done and sort of made the language somewhat bearable as if it was a German movie transformed into English :cool:

I did find the Hitler character rather odd, he had a really strange accent, didnt sound 'very' German at all, they should have got Bruno Ganz to do the job again :P

The movie does take a little while to get going, all the different characters etc have to be built up and such before it gets to the assination attempt and the aftermath, but once it gets going I found it pretty tense in places (even though I and I'd imagine most people were aware of the outcome!)

Certainly not a great, epic movie, but then not bad either!

mikemac

Thrill wrote: »

It's getting some good reviews. I'm looking forward to seeing it.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/entertainment/mhsngbauqlkf/

I'd read that and the others on that page and RTE gave 5/5 to five of the six films.

Either it's a fantastic week for films or RTE are easily impressed

PurpleBerry

Tbh, Croppy Boy, my initial thought was that Tom Cruise wouldn't be able to do the role justice. Sorry if that sounds judgemental but I don't think he's good enough as an actor.

Draupnir

Saw this last night and really enjoyed it. Anyone who thinks the accents are off putting or should be in German needs to realise that the movie establishes the fact that we are watching German people speaking German, the premise is that the movie is being translated into English for the viewers benefit. Hence, no need for German or German accents.

Imagine it like you are wearing one of those universal translators from Star Trek. I find it an excellent way to add credibility to a movie. If they had the same cast doing German accents and speaking German then I feel the movie would be a lot less of a spectacle.

Valkyrie has outstanding costume and set design with some of the best German World War II props, vehicles, weapons and uniforms I've seen on screen. This goes a long way towards making the movie feel realistic and involving.

I thought Cruise was exceptional as von Stauffenberg, I didn't really notice that it was Cruise after the opening scene and thought he did a good job of the emotional side of the tasks his character faced. I was also thankful it didn't involve any trademark Tom Cruise long distance running. I think it is another fine performance from a fine actor. I don't get all the Tom Cruise hate, what exactly has he done to offend people?

Supporting cast are brilliant, Bill Nighy in particular plays his role exceptionally well as does the older guy from The Full Monty. There were some genuinely tense, hard to watch moments, particularly the scenes at the Wolf's Lair. I thought the actor playing Hitler did very well at portraying the weaker, almost childlike side to Hitlers character in private.

Overall, I'd give the movie an 8/10 for not falling into the trap of becoming some romantic, sugar coated fairytale. From what I know, this movie is very accurate apart from one or two changes in the events just before the Valkyrie attempt.

One question, why does Goebbels always look like the scariest Nazi, just because he has a long brown overcoat!

Lamper.sffc

Draupnir wrote: »

Saw this last night and really enjoyed it. Anyone who thinks the accents are off putting or should be in German needs to realise that the movie establishes the fact that we are watching German people speaking German, the premise is that the movie is being translated into English for the viewers benefit. Hence, no need for German or German accents.

Imagine it like you are wearing one of those universal translators from Star Trek. I find it an excellent way to add credibility to a movie. If they had the same cast doing German accents and speaking German then I feel the movie would be a lot less of a spectacle.

Valkyrie has outstanding costume and set design with some of the best German World War II props, vehicles, weapons and uniforms I've seen on screen. This goes a long way towards making the movie feel realistic and involving.

I thought Cruise was exceptional as von Stauffenberg, I didn't really notice that it was Cruise after the opening scene and thought he did a good job of the emotional side of the tasks his character faced. I was also thankful it didn't involve any trademark Tom Cruise long distance running. I think it is another fine performance from a fine actor. I don't get all the Tom Cruise hate, what exactly has he done to offend people?

Supporting cast are brilliant, Bill Nighy in particular plays his role exceptionally well as does the older guy from The Full Monty. There were some genuinely tense, hard to watch moments, particularly the scenes at the Wolf's Lair. I thought the actor playing Hitler did very well at portraying the weaker, almost childlike side to Hitlers character in private.

Overall, I'd give the movie an 8/10 for not falling into the trap of becoming some romantic, sugar coated fairytale. From what I know, this movie is very accurate apart from one or two changes in the events just before the Valkyrie attempt.

One question, why does Goebbels always look like the scariest Nazi, just because he has a long brown overcoat!

I dont think it really for the acting side of things(not from me anyway)
For me its the scientology stuff. Not going to go into here. Check it out for yourself if you like.

TerrorFirmer

Lamper.sffc wrote: »

I dont think it really for the acting side of things(not from me anyway)
For me its the scientology stuff. Not going to go into here. Check it out for yourself if you like.

I think Tom Cruise and his religious beliefs can be captured in one word: 'loon'.

But I still like him as an actor and enjoy any movie he's in. I think he's great. Absolutely no problems with him playing Stauffenburg, going to see Valkyrie tonight and really looking forward to it. Huge history buff, particular the second world war.

GO TOM!

kowloon

There was a German film made about Stauffenberg not too long ago. Was just called 'Stauffenberg'. Worth checking out if you're not put off by subtitles.

Draupnir

Lamper.sffc wrote: »

I dont think it really for the acting side of things(not from me anyway)
For me its the scientology stuff. Not going to go into here. Check it out for yourself if you like.

Oh I'm fully aware of Scientology and his beliefs, I just can never understand why the crazy stuff he believes in singles him out from other people who believe equally crazy, just less contemporary stuff.

Draupnir

kowloon wrote: »

There was a German film made about Stauffenberg not too long ago. Was just called 'Stauffenberg'. Worth checking out if you're not put off by subtitles.

Yes thats a good movie alright, although it was made for TV so the production quality isn't as high.

TerrorFirmer

Just back from it now. Excellent movie. Tom Cruise, to give him what's due, does an outstanding job. Funny enough in the movie there was every kind of European accent....except German.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

Lamper.sffc

Draupnir wrote: »

Oh I'm fully aware of Scientology and his beliefs, I just can never understand why the crazy stuff he believes in singles him out from other people who believe equally crazy, just less contemporary stuff.

Its not as simple as, it just being crazy stuff he believes in. Its what scientology has done and what it is doing to people. He represents that. I just find it a lot harder to stomach him now. Anyway thats for a different meeting.

SpitfireIV

Draupnir wrote: »

Saw this last night and really enjoyed it. Anyone who thinks the accents are off putting or should be in German needs to realise that the movie establishes the fact that we are watching German people speaking German, the premise is that the movie is being translated into English for the viewers benefit. Hence, no need for German or German accents.

Imagine it like you are wearing one of those universal translators from Star Trek. I find it an excellent way to add credibility to a movie. If they had the same cast doing German accents and speaking German then I feel the movie would be a lot less of a spectacle.



One question, why does Goebbels always look like the scariest Nazi, just because he has a long brown overcoat!

Like 'The Scientist' said, I do believe that had this movie been a German production in German language that it would have added a whole new dimension to this movie. It would have felt 'right' and more credible, I dont see how you believe it'd be less of a spectable if it were in German. But, in saying that I did think the way the movie began (the transformation from German to English) was well done. I could hear murmors around the cinema when the movie started with German audio and Eng subs, they must have thought it was gonna be like that the whole way through :P

For the most part I could deal with the 'Englishness' and the accents didnt seem too bad, but of all the characters the one that really annoyed me was that played by Kenneth Cranham, you know, 'Jimmy Price' from Layer Cake, he just didnt seem right in that particular role, or even the movie, he belongs in English cinema or perhaps Hollywood where a tough, cockney, in your face, proper hard English guy is needed, but not as a German officer!!

Now, of course I fully understand that had it of been in German that it probably wouldnt have made the cinema's here and wouldnt have dragged in the crowds, people arent all that interested in reading subtitles and it probably would have, for the most part, gone unknown (I guess some examples would be 'Das leben der Anderen' or 'Der Untergang' which never made the cinemas here! and there was even talk of a Hollywood remake of 'The Lives of Others'??........jesus! )

As for Goebbels, well he was a shifty looking character anyway :P, a little weasel with his slick combed back hair, he looks the proper villian.

Placebo

i liked it, better wife + sex scene for the win.

Handsome Bob

Was planning on seeing it last Friday but on my way I picked up The Star, which coincidentally explained how the film glossed over the facts some what. Put off by the article I went to see Milk instead.:pac:

Draupnir

CroppyBoy1798 wrote: »

Like 'The Scientist' said, I do believe that had this movie been a German production in German language that it would have added a whole new dimension to this movie. It would have felt 'right' and more credible, I dont see how you believe it'd be less of a spectable if it were in German. But, in saying that I did think the way the movie began (the transformation from German to English) was well done. I could hear murmors around the cinema when the movie started with German audio and Eng subs, they must have thought it was gonna be like that the whole way through :P

For the most part I could deal with the 'Englishness' and the accents didnt seem too bad, but of all the characters the one that really annoyed me was that played by Kenneth Cranham, you know, 'Jimmy Price' from Layer Cake, he just didnt seem right in that particular role, or even the movie, he belongs in English cinema or perhaps Hollywood where a tough, cockney, in your face, proper hard English guy is needed, but not as a German officer!!

Now, of course I fully understand that had it of been in German that it probably wouldnt have made the cinema's here and wouldnt have dragged in the crowds, people arent all that interested in reading subtitles and it probably would have, for the most part, gone unknown (I guess some examples would be 'Das leben der Anderen' or 'Der Untergang' which never made the cinemas here! and there was even talk of a Hollywood remake of 'The Lives of Others'??........jesus! )

As for Goebbels, well he was a shifty looking character anyway :P, a little weasel with his slick combed back hair, he looks the proper villian.

I just think that had they attempted German as the language it would have seem contrived and taken away from the movie. It would have almost been like they decided "Lets do Passion of the Christ for Nazis". German would have been good, if done with an entirely different cast. Downfall wouldn't have worked with a bunch of Hollywood A-Listers playing the parts in my opinion.

I also think it would have taken away from some of the emotion in Cruise's performance in particular because it would have directed our attention from his excellent physical performance towards subtitles.

Loomis

senordingdong wrote: »

They could have atleast tried German accents.

Not after the attempts at Irish accents.

robby^5

CroppyBoy1798 wrote: »

I dont see how you believe it'd be less of a spectable if it were in German.

Well for one it wouldn't have starred Tom Cruise, Kenneth Branagh, Bill Nighy, Tom Wilkinson, Eddie Izzard or most of the great cast for that matter, unless they were all prepared to either learn the German language or read their lines in German not knowing what the hell they were saying... which might have taken away from the quality of the production a tad.

People calling for German accents amaze me. Sure, the Germans didn't speak in American or English accents, that's a given, but they also didn't speak English to each other period.

So really what you guys want is to go watch something like Downfall and understand that this is a film produced by and primarily targeted at English speakers not German speakers. I'm quite glad they had enough respect for the audience to realise that we don't need forced fake German accents to comprehend that these characters are German and would be presumably speaking German in reality if this was not a dramatic retelling of the story.

If after the first few minutes it still confuses or annoys you, you're a lost cause and will never get over this completely superficial aspect to the film.

But never fear, ye can always wait for it to come out on DVD and simply switch on the German dub and English subtitles.

homerun_homer

How would everyone around the world react if Germany made a WW2 film and cast German actors speaking German in American and English army roles?
I reckon there's be a spot of bother and debate.
I know it's a Hollywood film but look at Mel Gibson, he did quite well out of Apocalypto and what was that other one..... oh yeah - the Passion of the Christ.

Funny story, heard my manager and colleague talking bout Valkyrie today. She asked him not to spoil the ending;

They don't assassinate Hitler

Duh..
He (being German) said every German school kid knows the whole story etc and that this was one of many assassination attempts, albeit the nearest to success.

She then asks "did they do it? I forget how he died, what happened him again??"
Him - "He committed suicide"
Her - "Oh yeah, or allegedly commited suicide"

Think we have a new conspiracy theory here.

SpitfireIV

robby^5 wrote: »

I'm quite glad they had enough respect for the audience to realise that we don't need forced fake German accents to comprehend that these characters are German and would be presumably speaking German in reality if this was not a dramatic retelling of the story.

I thought I already went thought this earlier? I said I found the language issue bearable, I thought they handled it well and the beginning of the movie was well done. What I am getting at, was the fact that had this movie been produced in German that, in my view, it would have added a lot more to it (ie Germans speaking German, sort of seems right :P).

But yes, I understand that had it of been in German that it wouldnt have pulled the crowds here and of course we cant force the majority the pleasure of not seeing these historic events retold just because they are subtitled.

By the way, on the accents, if there was no need for forced, faked German accents then why did Hitler have one? :P

TerrorFirmer

CroppyBoy1798 wrote: »

By the way, on the accents, if there was no need for forced, faked German accents then why did Hitler have one? :P

I actually thought Hitler sounded entirely non-German, almost French or at best, a Frenchman with a twinge of German....

After seeing Bruno Ganz as Hitler in Downfall though, no other Hitler seems 'right'...

johnny_ultimate

Saw this last night, and while there is little risk of it setting the world alight, it is a surprisingly solid, tense and entertaining thriller, even if everyone knows how it ends! Fast-paced atmosphere is kept up throughout, and was happy that they didn't spend too much time on subplots like the family one, and the scheme was in action within the first ten to fifteen minutes after efficient character establishment.

One thing I really noticed was the sound design. I think someone once said if you don't notice the sound design, the designer has done their job well, but here it was obvious but effective - especially in sequences with planes, the sound was overwhelming, as it would be in real life, and really worked well. Again, sound isn't something I would usually be able to comment on, but they did a good job here.

As for the accents, the only one that got to me was Cruise himself - just playing himself, his accent really stuck out like a sore thumb amongst all the British. Hitler himself had a bit of an odd accent as pointed out above - definitely a French vibe alright. Didn't have too many lines though - only really obvious during the phone call. As for the lack of German speaking, yes it may not be authentic but it is a film made by English speakers featuring a predominantly English cast - they acknowledge the German language at the start only to fade into English, which was good enough for me. Yes, it may have been more authentic had it been in German, but I wouldn't say it takes away from the film: at the end of the day, the script / film-making / acting (well, they probably would have needed a completely new cast!) wouldn't have been any different had it been in German.

Didn't expect to enjoy this, but just making a focused, fast-paced thriller Singer and co. have made a good night's entertainment IMO. May not feature much in the way of characterisation or anything, but there always is Downfall and the like for that. This is just a good story, and expecting that there is plenty to like here.