New ideas to cope with the future ?

LoveDucati2

Just a few quick modern ideas that we need to implement.

Government

Sack 150,000 people including 80% of TD's and Ministers immediately. This saves 4 billion after redunancy and dole payments. How does a country with the population and the size of Ireland need 20% of its working population employed by government. Ban the government Jet and Garda protection for old ministers, and all garda drivers. Put them back on the beat.

Immigration

We need a similar policy to Oz, you would need to apply for Visa months in advance, you must pass a full health check and ID check, and prove you have enough money to support yourself. Too many people have come over the last number of years on false documents or carrying rare diseases. We are overrun with Russian and Chinese mafia who must think Ireland is fab because of a lack of law enforcement

Unemployment

Make the unemployed work in some form of civic duty. No more long term dole families where kids grow up in an uneducated household with no ambition except crime and more dole.

Social services

Concentrate on prevention, get to kids at 6 years of age or younger and spend the money with social services educating and supporting the parents that need it the most, those with learning difficulties and little education who had no parental involvement in their own lives. Its cheaper than spending €250,000 a year keeping an under 16 in custody and €100,000 a year to keep an ordinary prisoner.

Crime

We also need stronger punishment, a 3 strikes policy for people with more than 50 convictions, if you accept that you only get caught 1 in 100 times in this country thats a lot of crime. The courts service CCTS system completely duplicates the Gardai Pulse system, they are not interlinkable although both were created by the same company..., sounds like brown envelope time again. Just go to any court at 11am to see the amount of Garda time wasted.

Tribunals

No more tribunals, witnesses will be given a lie detector test or a truth serum, no need for Bertie to come to the tribunals (costing 180k per day) for more than 1 hour in total, and they would all inform on each other, we would finally get the truth and the tribunal over in 2 weeks, the lawyers would be unhappy but who cares about them.

Transport

Disband Motor tax and VRT departments and Insurance companies and put a extra charge on fuel for all of them, then everyone pays equally and you do not need 30,000 staff pushing and stamping forms, or inspections to see if your car is taxed or insured. More bus lanes instead of expensive tram lines, on the Luas tram lines the guage on both lines is a different size, so one Luas cannot run on the other track. Also only in Ireland would we have 6 toll tag companies and 4 toll roads. We need a congestion charge in cities.

Drugs

Legalise all drugs, charge a large tax, people would get excellent quality, no more dealers or drugs gangs which will be about 10 times cheaper than what they spend on prevention and it frees up the Garda to do a proper job.

Sorry for the rant, these are new times, we are facing water shortages, oil shortages, land shortages, massive population boom, 7 billion people and counting, will be 8 billion in 10 years, new diseases, overcrowding, 2 billion people starving and living on less than $1 a day, we need a new way.

CSC

Some of those views are quite extreme. I do agree with you about unemployment and crime though.

LoveDucati2

CSC wrote: »

Some of those views are quite extreme. I do agree with you about unemployment and crime though.

What views are extreme?

It's what has to be done before we are bankrupt, and we go back to 1940's standard of living.

SaturnV

Oh good. We're all saved now then, I guess...

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

Government

Sack 150,000 people including 80% of TD's and Ministers immediately. This saves 4 billion after redunancy and dole payments. How does a country with the population and the size of Ireland need 20% of its working population employed by government. Ban the government Jet and Garda protection for old ministers, and all garda drivers. Put them back on the beat.

Which 150,000 people do you propose sacking, exactly? Teachers? Cardiologists? Fisheries officers? How do you decide? Presumably not those working in the dole offices though. You'll need all of those under your proposed scheme.

Which ministers will go? Get rid of 80%, and you're left with 3. If you get rid of 80% of the TDs, you are left with 33 TDs in the Dail. That means that you only need 17 people to form a government. That's hardly going to representative. 17 people is not a government. It's barely a gang...

Immigration

We need a similar policy to Oz, you would need to apply for Visa months in advance, you must pass a full health check and ID check, and prove you have enough money to support yourself. Too many people have come over the last number of years on false documents or carrying rare diseases. We are overrun with Russian and Chinese mafia who must think Ireland is fab because of a lack of law enforcement

Who will administer this fantastic scheme, especially considering you'll have 150,000 less people in the employ of the state? Considering you seem to believe we're overrun, that's going to generate a lot of paperwork, and medical examination resources.

How do you know how many people have come over on false documents? Bigger queues in the "false document" lane at Dublin airport?

Funnily enough, I suspect the Russian and Chinese mafia you believe we're overrun with probably have more than enough money to support themselves with...

Unemployment

Make the unemployed work in some form of civic duty. No more long term dole families where kids grow up in an uneducated household with no ambition except crime and more dole.

Hey, and maybe we could have special camps where they could live while they do their civic duty! You know, "concentrate" their good efforts into one place! That's a much better idea than retraining!

Social services

Concentrate on prevention, get to kids at 6 years of age or younger and spend the money with social services educating and supporting the parents that need it the most, those with learning difficulties and little education who had no parental involvement in their own lives. Its cheaper than spending €250,000 a year keeping an under 16 in custody and €100,000 a year to keep an ordinary prisoner.

To be fair, this is an okay point, albeit rather nebulous and lacking in specifics.

Tribunals

No more tribunals, witnesses will be given a lie detector test or a truth serum, no need for Bertie to come to the tribunals (costing 180k per day) for more than 1 hour in total, and they would all inform on each other, we would finally get the truth and the tribunal over in 2 weeks, the lawyers would be unhappy but who cares about them.

Truth serum? Why not go the whole Hollywood hog and just get some CTU agents to interrogate the baddies, but in a goos way that will definitely resolve everything within, say, 24 hours?

Transport

Disband Motor tax and VRT departments and Insurance companies and put a extra charge on fuel for all of them, then everyone pays equally and you do not need 30,000 staff pushing and stamping forms, or inspections to see if your car is taxed or insured. More bus lanes instead of expensive tram lines, on the Luas tram lines the guage on both lines is a different size, so one Luas cannot run on the other track. Also only in Ireland would we have 6 toll tag companies and 4 toll roads. We need a congestion charge in cities.

If you think the traffic heading north over the border was bad around christmas, imagine what it'd be like when you put a tax like that on fuel!

BroomBurner

Haha SaturnV, excellent post

turgon

So we fire 150,000 people. Cool. So thats 150,000 people paying less tax. 150,000 more people on the dole. 150,000 providers of services gone. This point is quite funny, could you enlighten us as to where these cuts will be. Im in the mood for a laugh.

So truth serum. Its kind of like the US House Un-American Committee of the 60's where one couldn't plead the 5th amendment. So under what circumstances can it be used?? Is everyone going to be put up and see what uber bad deeds theyve done? Well we could at least give it to the 150,000 civil servants you fired, its not like they will be doing anything.

And legalize drugs I see, the age old economic liberal ideal. Well at the best it might be a little good for the Irish, even though you will have a lot more users. But what about the people making the drugs in foreign countries, do they still get treated like shìt by organizations like FARC? Oh and if your having such a high tax would it be cheaper to still get it off their dealer??

But at least legalize it for the 150,00 civil servants, theyl need a bit of fun out of the €40,000,000 being paid to them each week in dole payments. Really that idea of firing civil servants is real gold. Post of the day quality at the very least, the system should be rigged just for you. I look forward your government white paper with anticipation.

Leon08

CSC wrote: »

Some of those views are quite extreme. I do agree with you about unemployment and crime though.

Same here. The Justice system in this country is unbelievably flawed. Remember the bus driver that raped a little girl over the course of a few years from the time she was 8 years old and got something like 8 years with the last two suspended? WTF!

And regarding unemployment, anyone who can physically work should be doing at least 15hours of community service if they are on the dole.

Irlbo

To the OP of this thread,I am going to assume and obviously I cant be sure that you are someone from a comfortable background and have a very stable existence but are under the illusion that you know whats best for the country and what everyone should do,most of your ideas are pure pie in the sky fantasy,and of the notion that the reason for our ills and problems is because of individual people or groups most of whom are vunrable and poor
,fire most of the civil service?are you mad?have you dealt with the social welfare,a hospital or the tax office lately,imagine what it would be like with far less staff,and the amount of snobbery on this forum is unreal,dole families and uneducated households,the cheek of you,you assume that people from working class areas all are born and aspire to be on the dole,and that they are taught this by their 'uneducated parents',you know nothing my friend

LoveDucati2

SaturnV wrote: »

Which 150,000 people do you propose sacking,

over 100,000 jobs are duplicated in the civil service

SaturnV wrote: »

Which ministers will go? Get rid of 80%, and you're left with 3. If you get rid of 80% of the TDs, you are left with 33 TDs in the Dail. That means that you only need 17 people to form a government. That's hardly going to representative. 17 people is not a government. It's barely a gang...

It is not a representative government now

SaturnV wrote: »

Who will administer this fantastic scheme, especially considering you'll have 150,000 less people in the employ of the state?

how, anyone with a PPS no. is already on file, no need for more duplication of forms is there?

SaturnV wrote: »

How do you know how many people have come over on false documents? Bigger queues in the "false document" lane at Dublin airport?

I worked in the Civil service, there was a joke in immigration in the airport about certain citizens flushing all their documents in the airport and causing drains to be blocked. I have seen false passports in Court that had been sent in annually to Immigration department for 4 or 5 years before Immigration department realised they were fake, they were that good.

SaturnV wrote: »

Funnily enough, I suspect the Russian and Chinese mafia you believe we're overrun with probably have more than enough money to support themselves with...

You are missing the point. We have at least 100,000 people living in Ireland that are undocumented. The government does not know how many more above that figure because they DO NOT KNOW.

SaturnV wrote: »

Hey, and maybe we could have special camps where they could live while they do their civic duty! You know, "concentrate" their good efforts into one place! That's a much better idea than retraining!

Whats your point? Do you think it is fair for someone to be signing on for 20 years, and work on the side, whats wrong with paying someone 200 quid a week and getting 15 hours civic duty of out them?

SaturnV wrote: »

To be fair, this is an okay point, albeit rather nebulous and lacking in specifics.

Of course it is, my post is a couple of paragraphs of outlined ideas for the future.

SaturnV wrote: »

Truth serum? Why not go the whole Hollywood hog and just get some CTU agents to interrogate the baddies, but in a goos way that will definitely resolve everything within, say, 24 hours?

No problem, does the fact that a tribunal can last 10 years and its witnesses can just go on lying and dragging it out not bother you.
The majority of people believe politicans are corrupt and lying according to opinion polls in the times

SaturnV wrote: »

If you think the traffic heading north over the border was bad around christmas, imagine what it'd be like when you put a tax like that on fuel!

It wouldn't be economical to waste 1/2 tank full of fuel driving to buy fuel that is at best the same price, fuel in NI is more expensive anyway.

The extra cost of of it all would be about 600 euro a year running a car doing 20,000 miles per annum. But you would pay no VR or road tax or insurance. Western Australia does this for insurance, when you rego a car for about 300 Oz dollars you are covered for 3rd party insurance, and similar in some US states.

Irlbo wrote: »

To the OP of this thread,I am going to assume and obviously I cant be sure that you are someone from a comfortable background and have a very stable existence but are under the illusion that you know whats best for the country

the country is fu*ked, we need to save 15 billion a year from last September, that is whats best for the country, we do not have any other choice now

no I am from good hardworking peasent stock, people who expected that you would work hard, and reap the benefits of your parents sacrifice.

Irlbo wrote: »

and what everyone should do,most of your ideas are pure pie in the sky fantasy,

no different that current government then

Irlbo wrote: »

and of the notion that the reason for our ills and problems is because of individual people or groups most of whom are vunrable and poor

not true, no all of ills, i never said that, statistically 90% of residents between 16-35 in Sherrif st. area do not have a leaving cert, 80% have convictions

90% of same age group in Foxrock have a degree. 4 % of these have a conviction.

can you see the difference here

Irlbo wrote: »

fire most of the civil service?are you mad?have you dealt with the social welfare,a hospital or the tax office lately,imagine what it would be like with far less staff,

over 100,000 jobs are duplicated in the civil service, in my original post I have explained courts and gardai duplication, on the motor tax and VRT why do we need an office in every county, put it on petrol, you would pay the same as before with unecessary paper pushing and stamping, other countries do it why can't we.

Why isn't there a central finance office

Decentralistion has cost 600 million so far, far more than they recouped from dole fraud last year

Irlbo wrote: »

and the amount of snobbery on this forum is unreal,dole families and uneducated households,the cheek of you,you assume that people from working class areas all are born and aspire to be on the dole,and that they are taught this by their 'uneducated parents',you know nothing my friend

not true, I am refering to the thousands of bad parents that we see, smacking and shouting at their kids in public, and the others hanging out pissed on the boardwalk, every day, all over the country.

Children of long term unemployed and uneducated people will not do as well in life, health or education. This is a fact. Some will escape the poverty trap, just as some children of educated or wealthy parents will go out of control.

We have to change the old ways now

We are facing water shortages, Ice shelf melting faster than ever, oil shortages, land shortages, financial meltdown, a massive planetary population boom, 7 billion people and counting, will be 8 billion in 10 years, extrapolate this figure, it is truly scary, new diseases, overcrowding, 2 billion people starving and living on less than $1 a day, we need a new way.

Serenity Now!

How about stop living beyond one's means?
Knock borrowing to the hilt on the head. The 'wealth' that people in this country in a deluded fashion thought was their own, most certainly wasn't.

AlekSmart

Yes theres a lot of stuff in LoveDucati2`s post that outlines some of the uncomfortable realities which many more of the "Ordinary" previously insulated citizenry have never been exposed to.

In many cases these "ordinaries" had a bit of extra earned disposable income which allowed them to steer well clear of the somewhat rancid underbelly which was expanding quite nicely.

Apart from aspiring to construct a SaturnV and perhaps despatching many of those who are non-aspirational into space perhaps LoveDucati2`s ideas aint ALL bad.

Although I would have added a new state backed scheme to fund a v-twin for everybody !! :eek:

turgon

Just because your annoyed you ideas have been uncovered as completely stupid doesn't mean you have to write responses in red.

LoveDucati2 Cost Saving Initiative

LoveDucati2 says 100,000 jobs are duplicated, and 150,000 need to be sacked. So whats this going to cost, assuming average wage of 40k and 6 months for those sacked to get new jobs. Money saved on income is not accounted as this is negated by the direct loss of services as a result of the initiative.

Redundancy package of one years salary, average 40k per servant time 150,000 = €6,000,000,000

Loss of income tax for 6 months of unemployment = 20k times 150,000 times 30% tax = €1,800,000,000

Dole for 6 months for 150,000 people = €260 times 150,000 times 26 weeks = €1,014,000,000

Grand total: €8,814,000,000, just over 8 billion euro, spent in one year to implement the initiative.

I am LoveDucati2, and I endorse this proposal.

pigeonbutler

The OP seems to think that all politicians are corrupt and useless and that Government and Oireachtas is useless as it's unrepresentative.

Should we just leave him in charge so with absolute power? If not, who will we let run the place?

LoveDucati2

turgon wrote: »

Just because your annoyed you ideas have been uncovered as completely stupid doesn't mean you have to write responses in red.

The country is falling apart and you are moaning about the colour, and just to correct you, my ideas are only stupid in your opinion.

LoveDucati2 Cost Saving Initiative

turgon wrote: »

LoveDucati2 says 100,000 jobs are duplicated, and 150,000 need to be sacked. So whats this going to cost, assuming average wage of 40k and 6 months for those sacked to get new jobs. Money saved on income is not accounted as this is negated by the direct loss of services as a result of the initiative.

Not sure what you are trying to illustrate here

turgon wrote: »

Redundancy package of one years salary, average 40k per servant time 150,000 = €6,000,000,000

Redundancy package would be same as Dell

"Dell stated last week that the 1900 affected workers will receive six weeks' pay per year of service, capped at 52 weeks.
Dell will also receive 60 per cent of this statutory payment back from the Government in a rebate, meaning that a large amount of the bill for millions of euro in severance pay for Dell workers will be footed by the tax payer."

Not all staff would get a years salary as they wouldn't be in the job that long, a more realisitc figure is 4 billion.

turgon wrote: »

Your figures are way off but it would save approx 30 billion over 10 years.

As a rule it is better to pay duplicate workers 200 quid a week rather than make up jobs for them and pay them 800 quid a week.

pigeonbutler wrote: »

The OP seems to think that all politicians are corrupt and useless and that Government and Oireachtas is useless as it's unrepresentative.

Well said, they are all corrupt and useless

pigeonbutler wrote: »

Should we just leave him in charge so with absolute power? If not, who will we let run the place?

There will not be a country for very much longer unless they make drastic changes now.

At the end of this year, when the government have to borrow 30 billion to cover existing loans, bonds, unemployment and all other expenses, and 25% of people are unemployed, where will you be?

Leon08

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

There will not be a country for very much longer unless they make drastic changes now.

@ all

Although some of you might not agree with LoveDucati2's proposals, and to be fair you cant implement such major reform without thinking things through and ironing out the details, peharps your time would be better served coming up with some solutions you deem to be viable instead of picking holes in his.

It's easy to criticise someone else's ideas when you dont have any of your own. Just look at the Opposition. I dont care how much they want to be in power, if they had any balls whatsoever they would be tackling FF on the issues at hand, try to engage in some proper debate in the Dail and making proposals for change. Then they could hammer out a Recovery Plan and this country might stand a chance.

My two cents.

EDIT: PS. If it was FG in power and FF in opposition I would still be saying the same, I dont like either of them. Or any other party in Parliament for that matter.

LoveDucati2

Leon08 wrote: »

@ all

Although some of you might not agree with LoveDucati2's proposals, and to be fair you cant implement such major reform without thinking things through and ironing out the details, peharps your time would be better served coming up with some solutions you deem to be viable instead of picking holes in his.

It's easy to criticise someone else's ideas when you dont have any of your own. Just look at the Opposition. I dont care how much they want to be in power, if they had any balls whatsoever they would be tackling FF on the issues at hand, try to engage in some proper debate in the Dail and making proposals for change. Then they could hammer out a Recovery Plan and this country might stand a chance.

My two cents.

EDIT: PS. If it was FG in power and FF in opposition I would still be saying the same, I dont like either of them. Or any other party in Parliament for that matter.

Thanks mate, a fair reply and you are spot on with this comment

they could hammer out a Recovery Plan and this country might stand a chance.

Leon08

And since this thread is about coming up with ideas for the recovery and future prosperity on Ireland, I'll throw my thoughts into the ring:

The way I see it we should be playing to our strenghts as a small island nation on the western outskirts of Europe. We have a number of advantages which we should be milking for all their worth;

1. We speak English and we are generally regarded as being an approachable and friendly bunch of people. This works to our advantage in business deals as well as diplomacy and mediation.

2. We are strategically located, pretty much half-way between the US and the rest of Europe aswell as being a stop-over point for US - Middle-East travel...(rendition flights etc :eek:)

3. We only have one time zone, which is conveniently the same as that of the UK, i.e. GMT, which unless I am grossly mistaken is the reference point for all time zones.

4. We have an enormous amount of coastline and the might of the Atlantic Ocean is right on our doorstep (Tidal and Wave power generation anyone?)
Also, the fishing industry has been given a raw deal for far too long.

5. We have vast amounts of arable land, which considering the likelihood of a future food crisis could be harnassed to export large amounts of crops and produce etc.

6. There exist places of exceptional beauty in this country (Giant's Causeway, Cliffs of Mother, the Burren etc etc etc) which have long been held in high regard by tourists.

I could go on and on, but I think you get the point. We should stop trying t be something that we are not, and begin to use the qualities we already posess.

A good example is what I saw on Nationwide yesterday, in Strangford Lough as far as I recall, one of the first commercial-scale tidal power generators. If this was done on a much larger scale we could become one the pioneers of direct power exportation through under-sea electricity lines for example.

The potential this country has is enormous, there is no doubt. But do we have the vision to pursue it?

turgon

Leon08 wrote: »

1. We speak English...

2. We are strategically located...

3. We only have one time zon....

Yeah I think this was figured out about 15 years ago. Welcome to the 21st century.

Leon08 wrote: »

Tidal and Wave power generation anyone?

Its only in research phase, in the interim we need nuclear.

Leon08 wrote: »

Also, the fishing industry has been given a raw deal for far too long.

I agree, its a pity they were forced to stop wiping out the whole population of Irish fish through overfishing. Lets tell the EU what we want to do and just kill all the fish, that will give us loads of food :rolleyes:

Leon08 wrote: »

5. We have vast amounts of arable land, which considering the likelihood of a future food crisis could be harnassed to export large amounts of crops and produce etc.

Forgive me for being stupid, but I actually had this wierd idea that irish land was already being farmed. Maybe I got it from that time I was actually working on a farm. Or in the history books when farming was introduced 100's of years ago. Forgive my stupidity, I agree. We should lobby for the setting up a committee to introduce agriculture into Ireland.

Leon08 wrote: »

6. There exist places of exceptional beauty in this country (Giant's Causeway, Cliffs of Mother, the Burren etc etc etc) which have long been held in high regard by tourists.

*cough cough* Discover Ireland

Leon08 wrote: »

The potential this country has is enormous, there is no doubt. But do we have the vision to pursue it?

To summarize what my post was intended to convey, we have already done most of what your post says we should be doing. Obviously Bord Failte didnt build any tourist amenities near the cave you appear to have been living in for the last decade and a half.

LoveDucati2

turgon

Stop hi jacking the thread.

If you have nothing to say SHUT UP.

Go and troll somewhere else.

Leon08

turgon wrote: »

Yeah I think this was figured out about 15 years ago. Welcome to the 21st century.

15 years ago the IDA was lobbying our language, location and education on the basis that large multinational companies whose focus was on manufacturing would come and set up here. (Dell, Intel etc)

We cannot compete with emerging markets such as Poland etc in terms of cost and labour.

Its only in research phase

It wont take that long before companies manufacturing those devices have a finished product ready to sell. Power generation through rotational mechanical action resulting in electro-magnetic induction is not exactly a new concept. Its mainly environmental impact studies that are hampering progress.

EDIT: And will the Irish Government be ready to respond as soon as the go-ahead is given?

in the interim we need nuclear.

I am not opposed to Nuclear power, but I am opposed to Nuclear facilities in Ireland. I don't know about you but I wouldn't sleep soundly at night with the knowledge that some hotshots, similar to those running key public services such as the HSE at the moment, would be in charge of a facility up the road from me that could kill hundreds of thousands of people and scar future generations.

A child doesnt learn to run before it learns to stand up and walk correctly.

I agree, its a pity they were forced to stop wiping out the whole population of Irish fish through overfishing. Lets tell the EU what we want to do and just kill all the fish, that will give us loads of food :rolleyes:

Yes, I accept there are those that would over-fish without thinking about the implications. But thats where a well-organised regulatory body would come in. I was under the impression that when we joined the EU our sea boundaries were rolled back to a large extent.

And I would rather see the fostering of an indigenous industry than to have Spanish super-trawlers come in so close to our shores and take all the fish back home with them.

Forgive me for being stupid, but I actually had this wierd idea that irish land was already being farmed. Maybe I got it from that time I was actually working on a farm. Or in the history books when farming was introduced 100's of years ago. Forgive my stupidity, I agree. We should lobby for the setting up a committee to introduce agriculture into Ireland.

I have worked on farms too and from what I have seen they are not even operating at 50% capacity. I think the problem is too many small farms and too much focus on livestock.

*cough cough* Discover Ireland

Many tourists have "Discovered Ireland" only to find that they spend more time withdrawing money from the ATM than actually experiencing the country because everything has been so ridiculously over-priced in the last few years.

The attitudes of some people working in the hospitality sector doesnt do much to enhance their opinion either.

To summarize what my post was intended to convey, we have already done most of what your post says we should be doing.

I don't think this is true, but thats open for debate. I think way too much emphasis has been placed on "get-rich-quick-by-selling-your-3-bed-sem-detached-house-in-a-housing-estate-in-some-suburb-of-dublin-for-a-million-euro" schemes that infrastructure has been neglected, people have become too greedy and the friendliness and hospitable nature that we were once famous for has all but disappeared.

Obviously Bord Failte didnt build any tourist amenities near the cave you appear to have been living in for the last decade and a half.

Instead of being sarcastic, why dont you give some of your ideas.

turgon

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

Go and troll somewhere else.

If youve a problem take it the mods, as per the rules. Ive led by example.

Leon08 wrote: »

We cannot compete with emerging markets such as Poland etc in terms of cost and labour.

Im well aware. The OP was trying to list whats good about Ireland, I was merely highlighting that hes a bit late on the scene, a point you reinforced by confirming that the IDA was pushing the cases he outlined 15 years ago. He was under the impression that he had just discovered them.

Leon08 wrote: »

I am not opposed to Nuclear power, but I am opposed to Nuclear facilities in Ireland.

Im not opposed to eating meat once animals dont die :rolleyes:

Its a ridiculous argument. If you want nuclear power you gotta be willing to be near one. You can just say you want it, but near someone elses gaf. So what if no one in the world had your opinion?

Leon08 wrote: »

Yes, I accept there are those that would over-fish without thinking about the implications. But thats where a well-organised regulatory body would come in.

Thats the Eu's job. They did regulate it. Ye bitched about it. So dont go saying you want regulation.

Leon08 wrote: »

I have worked on farms too and from what I have seen they are not even operating at 50% capacity. I think the problem is too many small farms and too much focus on livestock.

Thats a fair enough point, but one has to consider that big farms = less employment. Theres no point in having loads of food being sold by a precious few elites.

Leon08 wrote: »

Many tourists have "Discovered Ireland" only to find that they spend more time withdrawing money from the ATM than actually experiencing the country because everything has been so ridiculously over-priced in the last few years.

Im aware of the price of Ireland. But how do you solve this?

Leon08 wrote: »

Instead of being sarcastic, why dont you give some of your ideas.

Competence.

TheNog

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

turgon

Stop hi jacking the thread.

If you have nothing to say SHUT UP.

Go and troll somewhere else.

+ 1

Turgon you have contributed nothing to this thread except to beat down on posters whereas you should try debating an idea.

While your at it try to give some ideas of your own.

My idea:

Restrict childrens allowance to the first 3 kids only. Obviously it should only be implemented for new applications say a deadline of a year from now. It more of a long term plan as opposed to short term.

turgon

TheNog wrote: »

Turgon you have contributed nothing to this thread except to beat down on posters whereas you should try debating an idea.

Fair enough. Ill let ye form yeer "national government" to yeer hearts content, seems as yee are all so anti to the idea of an opposition.

LoveDucati2

TheNog wrote: »

+ 1


My idea:

Restrict childrens allowance to the first 3 kids only. Obviously it should only be implemented for new applications say a deadline of a year from now. It more of a long term plan as opposed to short term.

Agreed, and the people who do not need it should donate it

LoveDucati2

turgon wrote: »

Fair enough. Ill let ye form yeer "national government" to yeer hearts content, seems as yee are all so anti to the idea of an opposition.

I am not opposed to any opposition once they speak some sense and realise the gravity of the situation that we are now in.

If something is not done we will be going back to a 1950's Ireland

Serenity Now!

TheNog wrote: »

Restrict childrens allowance to the first 3 kids only. Obviously it should only be implemented for new applications say a deadline of a year from now. It more of a long term plan as opposed to short term.

Cut it altogether for couples earning above a certain salary level. Millions would be saved in not having to pay out to people who can already afford to have children before even receiving child allowance.

stevedublin

Leon08 wrote: »

Then they could hammer out a Recovery Plan and this country might stand a chance.

FG did this before in the 1980's. They called it the "Tallaght Strategy". They never got to implement it as FF were elected and they copied it and took credit for its success.

mumhaabu

All was going well until legalising drugs and the truth serum bit, I'd say create a sort of Amsterdam somewhere nobody likes anyway like Finglas, Ballymun or South Hill in Limerick, legalise cannabis and hookers add a few hotels and next thing it will be invaded by Brits on stag parties.

Throw a bit of dosh to Mick O'Leary to fly them in next thing you will have a multi million euro industry that currently already exists only taxed and regulated. It would suit Limerick well as the locals have the necessary expeireince in those industries, plus it would help Shannon Airport, this will help after the Dell fiasco and help Limerick preserve its bad boy image.*

*Some was tongue in cheek but it was an idea I immediatly thought of after reading the ops post.

Executive Steve

disband the army apart from a small ceremonial guard, the army equitation unit and a few marching bands.

since the army is such an excellent training facility for civilian life (or so they will tell you) the people who come back onto civvy street will have jobs in no time at all.

pipsqueak

[cm]tyranny wrote: »

disband the army apart from a small ceremonial guard, the army equitation unit and a few marching bands.

since the army is such an excellent training facility for civilian life (or so they will tell you) the people who come back onto civvy street will have jobs in no time at all.

Excellent idea its not as if we are going to be invaded any time soon is it?:D

sceptre

stevedublin wrote: »

FG did this before in the 1980's. They called it the "Tallaght Strategy". They never got to implement it as FF were elected and they copied it and took credit for its success.

The Tallaght strategy wasn't an economic plan - it was FG saying, because of the country being up to its neck in economic trouble, that they wouldn't oppose things that the minority FF government proposed that made sense to FG.

Here's the relevant part of the speech Alan Dukes made to the Tallaght chamber of commerce (that's why it's called the Tallaght strategy) in Sept 87, well after the 1987 election:

"When the Government is moving in the right direction, I will not oppose the central thrust of its policy. If it is going in the right direction, I do not believe that it should be deviated from its course, or tripped up on macro-economic issues. Any other policy of Opposition would amount simply to a cynical exploitation of short term political opportunities for a political advantage which would inevitably prove to be equally short-lived. I will not play that game."

Although it is true to say that FF copied the FG plan of cutbacks, despite saying that they wouldn't in the 1987 election. That was nothing to do with Dukes' Tallaght Strategy though. Dukes never got much credit for it but it saved FF having to kow-tow to every parish pump in the country and allowed them to make the hard decisions that they wouldn't have been able to make without the support of the opposition.

LoveDucati2

mumhaabu wrote: »

All was going well until legalising drugs and the truth serum bit, I'd say create a sort of Amsterdam somewhere nobody likes anyway like Finglas, Ballymun or South Hill in Limerick, legalise cannabis and hookers add a few hotels and next thing it will be invaded by Brits on stag parties.

LOL brits in Finglas, imagine the fun the 7-12 year olds would have after last years paddys day riot

but seriously
the Brits are about to test lie detection in interviews

mumhaabu wrote: »

Throw a bit of dosh to Mick O'Leary to fly them in next thing you will have a multi million euro industry that currently already exists only taxed and regulated. It would suit Limerick well as the locals have the necessary expeireince in those industries, plus it would help Shannon Airport, this will help after the Dell fiasco and help Limerick preserve its bad boy image.*

*Some was tongue in cheek but it was an idea I immediatly thought of after reading the ops post.

about 1 million in this country use drugs, think about the quality of drugs you would get if they were legalised.

think about the tax, it would cost the gov about 10 quid to make a kilo of grass in large quantities. if grass is 300-400 an ounce now they could sell it for 100 an ounce and still be making 99 tax per O. same with coke.
whats the point in spending billions trying to stop it,

legalising cuts dealers out

wylo

Interest free loans for students in 3rd level education , you pay for what you study, you decide to drop out at the end of 2nd year ? you pay back 100% of 2 years!
You qualify at the end? you only have to pay back 60% to 80% of the loan depending on your results.
This would give everyone the opportunity to go to college and it would offer encouragement to do well.

LoveDucati2

wylo wrote: »

Interest free loans for students in 3rd level education,
This would give everyone the opportunity to go to college and it would offer encouragement to do well.

I think this is a very good point, by educating people they not only get knowledge but an awareness of social responsibility for the future.

The majority will contribute well to society, pay tax and pass their knowledge on to their offspring, who in turn will do better in the future.

The cost of sending someone to university for 4 years is cheaper than holding 1 prosoner for 1 year.

Sums this place up really.

titan18

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

I think this is a very good point, by educating people they not only get knowledge but an awareness of social responsibility for the future.

The majority will contribute well to society, pay tax and pass their knowledge on to their offspring, who in turn will do better in the future.

The cost of sending someone to university for 4 years is cheaper than holding 1 prosoner for 1 year.

Sums this place up really.

Fees are free atm, anything that puts in paying for college will decrease attendances, so it wouldn't make much of a difference.But I actually like the interest free loan system.I'm opposed to fees as I'm in college, but its better than my parents having to pay every year for me.

HercHauk

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

LOL brits in Finglas, imagine the fun the 7-12 year olds would have after last years paddys day riot

but seriously
the Brits are about to test lie detection in interviews



about 1 million in this country use drugs, think about the quality of drugs you would get if they were legalised.

think about the tax, it would cost the gov about 10 quid to make a kilo of grass in large quantities. if grass is 300-400 an ounce now they could sell it for 100 an ounce and still be making 99 tax per O. same with coke.
whats the point in spending billions trying to stop it,

legalising cuts dealers out

In Principal Communism works.

turgon

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

whats the point in spending billions trying to stop it,

You so so right, I think the government have this uber-strange notion that drugs kill. I mean, where did they get that from??

Kama

where did they get that from??

Moral panic? Associated crime and violence from illegality? Beating a law and order drum is easier than any kind of evidence-based solution.

*cue for comparative fatalities with alcohol, tobacco, cars, etc*

If you really want to try making a harm reduction argument, feel free.


Choice A: there's a market, and its subject to taxation

Choice B: there's a market, and its not.

Take your pick. I'd go with the revenue, and cutting the financial bollocks off organised crime, meself...

LoveDucati2

Kama wrote: »

Moral panic? Associated crime and violence from illegality? Beating a law and order drum is easier than any kind of evidence-based solution.

*cue for comparative fatalities with alcohol, tobacco, cars, etc*

If you really want to try making a harm reduction argument, feel free.


Choice A: there's a market, and its subject to taxation

Choice B: there's a market, and its not.

Take your pick. I'd go with the revenue, and cutting the financial bollocks off organised crime, meself...

Great post

Its a no brainer.

option 1 : spend 2 billion over the year trying to stop drugs that people want to take, the most common one cannabis has NEVER killed anyone as a direct consequence of taking it. let the dealers continue to blow the f*ck outta who ever they want while making 2 billion a year profit.

leave alcohol alone, god knows this country has had its problems with it.
(it only kills a few thousand a year here)


option 2 : legalise, make dealers redundant, make a profit of 10 billion a year. More people will not try drugs because of this, if you are gonna use drugs you will.

Chris Rock is correct

People don't sell drugs, drugs sell drugs.

HercHauk

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

Great post

Its a no brainer.

option 1 : spend 2 billion over the year trying to stop drugs that people want to take, the most common one cannabis has NEVER killed anyone as a direct consequence of taking it. let the dealers continue to blow the f*ck outta who ever they want while making 2 billion a year profit.

leave alcohol alone, god knows this country has had its problems with it.
(it only kills a few thousand a year here)


option 2 : legalise, make dealers redundant, make a profit of 10 billion a year. More people will not try drugs because of this, if you are gonna use drugs you will.

Chris Rock is correct

People don't sell drugs, drugs sell drugs.

He was right about the bullet contol thing aswell...