An Garda Siochana On UCD Campus, Campus Security, Powers Of Both On UCD CAMPUS.

IT Loser

Hi there, just a general question I wanted to run across you all...under what circumstances are the Gardai Siochana permitted to present themselves on the UCD Campus...can they just drive in, and, if they do {even if they are not allowed to, per se} what can they do once they have entered campus?


What powers {arrest, detention, search} do so-called "Services" have??

A friend of mine was harrassed by Services down at UCD Blackrock, Smurfit, for playing football in the Car park on Saturday evening. The guy from Services drove in in a 4X4 and said that the police were on their way up from Blackrock station to "deal with them" if they didnt push off.

Another guy I know was bothered by An G.S. when they stopped him for swigging out of a tin at the No. 10 Bus Stop one Thursday evening. He was living on Campus and said that the Police had just driven in and turned round, pulled up at the stop and asked them all sorts of questions, took his tin and drove off.

3 years ago I saw two Guards pull up at the gate in Roebuck {just down from the Spar}, park their car on the footpath on Roebuck Road walk in and get coffee in the shop, use the facilities and just leave 10 mins later.

Where would "College" stand on any of this??

Red Alert

Services have no power of arrest - in fact all they have is the same powers a security guard in a supermarket or a bouncer in a nightclub have. The people who work for services but aren't security have no power at all.

An Garda siochana can enter a public space - which includes things such as shopping centres and public transport. UCD has rights of way I'd imagine in which case its a public space.

IT Loser

Red Alert wrote: »

Services have no power of arrest - in fact all they have is the same powers a security guard in a supermarket or a bouncer in a nightclub have. The people who work for services but aren't security have no power at all.

An Garda siochana can enter a public space - which includes things such as shopping centres and public transport. UCD has rights of way I'd imagine in which case its a public space.

Hi and thanks for the fast response. One guy I spoke to was adamant that the Guards had no right to enter campus without prior knowledge on the behalf of the "College Authority".

I figured that made, well, shag all sense so I decided to ask around.

graduate

One guy I spoke to was adamant that the Guards had no right to enter campus without prior knowledge on the behalf of the "College Authority".

But UCD might have said to the Guards "come in and harass gurriers whenever you want" or even "come and use the jacks if the need arises".

Snakes

IT Loser wrote: »

One guy I spoke to was adamant that the Guards had no right to enter campus without prior knowledge on the behalf of the "College Authority".

Was this bloke an arts student?

Pride Fighter

graduate wrote: »

But UCD might have said to the Guards "come in and harass gurriers whenever you want" or even "come and use the jacks if the need arises".

QFT, same is true for ambulances. A guy I played football with who got injured was not allowed leave in the ambulance until services gave it the all clear.

delta_bravo

There is a Garda office in the Science block so im sure UCD more than welcome Gardai going through campus

Time Magazine

Pride Fighter wrote: »

QFT, same is true for ambulances. A guy I played football with who got injured was not allowed leave in the ambulance until services gave it the all clear.

Services might have been chancing their arm on that one. It's the equivalent of saying "had a heart attack in the Jervis Centre, but the ambulance needed permission from the manager before they could bring me to hospital."

I presume there is an agreement between UCD and the Gardaí due to the size and importance of UCD that specify arrangements (I'm pretty sure there was one between Pearse St station and TCD), but that aside the Gardaí are more than permitted on the UCD grounds.

bearded1

IT Loser wrote: »

A friend of mine was harrassed by Services down at UCD Blackrock, Smurfit, for playing football in the Car park on Saturday evening. The guy from Services drove in in a 4X4 and said that the police were on their way up from Blackrock station to "deal with them" if they didnt push off.

It's a car park, not a football pitch, and it's private property.

IT Loser wrote: »

Another guy I know was bothered by An G.S. when they stopped him for swigging out of a tin at the No. 10 Bus Stop one Thursday evening. He was living on Campus and said that the Police had just driven in and turned round, pulled up at the stop and asked them all sorts of questions, took his tin and drove off.

Consuming alcohol outside the designated areas on campus is a breach of the student code. Also Dublin Bus have withdrawn bus services during the evening due to antisocial behaviour & consumption of alcohol at the number 10 bus stop and on Dublin Buses.

IT Loser wrote: »

3 years ago I saw two Guards pull up at the gate in Roebuck {just down from the Spar}, park their car on the footpath on Roebuck Road walk in and get coffee in the shop, use the facilities and just leave 10 mins later.

I'm confused as to why you've included this as Roebuck Road is off campus - and thus not relevent to UCD.

bearded1

Pride Fighter wrote: »

QFT, same is true for ambulances. A guy I played football with who got injured was not allowed leave in the ambulance until services gave it the all clear.

There are many routes out of campus, services could easily have been ensuring the quickest one was clear & open so that the ambulance wouldn't have to double back.

vote4pedro

bearded1 wrote: »

Consuming alcohol outside the designated areas on campus is a breach of the student code. Also Dublin Bus have withdrawn bus services during the evening due to antisocial behaviour & consumption of alcohol at the number 10 bus stop and on Dublin Buses.

God I hate when dweebs bleat this student code out. Do you not think the Gardaí/services can spot a difference between a load of knackers potentially causing trouble and someone drinking from a can on their way to town? I'd say I weekly drink on buses, often from those leaving ucd. Never had any problems from anyone, or caused any problems. Gardai should stop people knacker drinking in big groups or causing mess or excessive noise. Someone finishing a can on their way from their house to a bus doesn't need to be called to account about some nerdy student code.

Edited for:

There are many routes out of campus, services could easily have been ensuring the quickest one was clear & open so that the ambulance wouldn't have to double back.

Oh sweet lord, do you work for Services or are you just the type of person who finds yourself writing a lot of complaint letters about the use of swear words on RTÉ ?

bearded1

vote4pedro wrote: »

God I hate when dweebs bleat this student code out. Do you not think the Gardaí/services can spot a difference between a load of knackers potentially causing trouble and someone drinking from a can on their way to town? I'd say I weekly drink on buses, often from those leaving ucd. Never had any problems from anyone, or caused any problems. Gardai should stop people knacker drinking in big groups or causing mess or excessive noise. Someone finishing a can on their way from their house to a bus doesn't need to be called to account about some nerdy student code.

Edited for:



Oh sweet lord, do you work for Services or are you just the type of person who finds yourself writing a lot of complaint letters about the use of swear words on RTÉ ?

No I don't work for them I'm simply pointing out that there could easily be a logical explanation for why an Ambulance might be held up, instead of assuming services/whoever are on some power trip that involves delaying the transfer of a patient to hospital.

Drinking & anti social behaviour on buses has lead to the 10 being withdrawn at night time, and most of the N11 routes not even stopping at the flyover, which means you may very well find yourself walking half way into town on your next night out, or paying for a taxi, and good luck trying to coax a taxi driver into letting you drink in his car.

badabinbadaboom

Students:rolleyes:

jimi_t

Gardai are effectively allowed do whatever they want, barring searching a house without a warrant - which kind be more or less sidestepped in a lot of cases. You'll always see freshers and armchair lawyers quoting this law and that law with a few cans in them, right up to the point that the cop pulls out the pad and starts asking for their name and address and they start backtracking. Its your word versus theirs at the end of the day - just don't put yourself in stupid situations and you can lead parallel lives.

ChristIsMurph

bearded1 wrote: »

No I don't work for them I'm simply pointing out that there could easily be a logical explanation for why an Ambulance might be held up, instead of assuming services/whoever are on some power trip that involves delaying the transfer of a patient to hospital.

Drinking & anti social behaviour on buses has lead to the 10 being withdrawn at night time, and most of the N11 routes not even stopping at the flyover, which means you may very well find yourself walking half way into town on your next night out, or paying for a taxi, and good luck trying to coax a taxi driver into letting you drink in his car.

i dont think i've ever gotten into a taxi on my way to a piss up without a can in my hand. and i've never once been told im not allowed have that.

DirkVoodoo

bearded1 wrote: »

Drinking & anti social behaviour on buses has lead to the 10 being withdrawn at night time, and most of the N11 routes not even stopping at the flyover, which means you may very well find yourself walking half way into town on your next night out, or paying for a taxi, and good luck trying to coax a taxi driver into letting you drink in his car.

I think that was more down to the bus drivers being abused and having objects (cans?) hurled at the buses. People have been drinking on the 10 out of UCD for years. And yes, the buses not stopping at the flyover is a joke, non-UCD people use it too and bus drivers have no right to dictate which stops they choose to stop at.

Dave!

vote4pedro wrote: »

God I hate when dweebs bleat this student code out. Do you not think the Gardaí/services can spot a difference between a load of knackers potentially causing trouble and someone drinking from a can on their way to town? I'd say I weekly drink on buses, often from those leaving ucd. Never had any problems from anyone, or caused any problems. Gardai should stop people knacker drinking in big groups or causing mess or excessive noise. Someone finishing a can on their way from their house to a bus doesn't need to be called to account about some nerdy student code.

Edited for:



Oh sweet lord, do you work for Services or are you just the type of person who finds yourself writing a lot of complaint letters about the use of swear words on RTÉ ?

Dweebs? Nerds? Is this Saved By The Bell or something?

bnt

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

I think that was more down to the bus drivers being abused and having objects (cans?) hurled at the buses. People have been drinking on the 10 out of UCD for years. And yes, the buses not stopping at the flyover is a joke, non-UCD people use it too and bus drivers have no right to dictate which stops they choose to stop at.

Where did you get the idea that it's just the drivers, deciding for themselves not to stop at UCD? Dublin Bus management has been involved, at least in the most recent withdrawal of service.

As I said in another thread, the one about students drinking in a car: if a situation deteriorates to the point where you have start claiming your "rights", examining the letter of the law, or arguing about exactly what security or Garda can and can not do; it's already too late. The only way either side can "win" in such a situation is not to let the situation develop in the first place. It will only lead to wasted time, money, and goodwill, all pointless waste if the situation was avoidable. :rolleyes:

anonymous_joe

Bus drivers were perfectly right to stop coming to UCD.

I've acted the bollocks while píssed drunk in UCD and on busses into town from UCD before. However, I'm not a príck, so I don't abuse the drivers, but plenty do. So how can ya blame 'em?

delta_bravo

Dave! wrote: »

Dweebs? Nerds? Is this Saved By The Bell or something?

If only

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO73-Wl

IT Loser

bearded1 wrote: »

It's a car park, not a football pitch, and it's private property.

So, supposing they had been playing football on the football pitches? As it happens they were {a} Residents of the Campus, and {b} stayed there all night, played mad ball, got bonged, got laid, had a really good time and the Police and Services did nothing about it.

Bearded 1 wrote:

Consuming alcohol outside the designated areas on campus is a breach of the student code. Also Dublin Bus have withdrawn bus services during the evening due to antisocial behaviour & consumption of alcohol at the number 10 bus stop and on Dublin Buses.

UNIT CORP COUNTRY GOD!!!

Thats right, no more #10 because people "drink at the stop". I guess the water stopped flowing down the Liffey one week because of all the drinking on the boardwalk

bearded 1 wrote:

I'm confused as to why you've included this as Roebuck Road is off campus - and thus not relevent to UCD.

They parked OUTSIDE the mo'fo'g campus, WALKED IN THRU THE GATE ONTO CAMPUS and into the coffee shop.

Tayto2000

IT Loser wrote:

So, supposing they had been playing football on the football pitches? As it happens they were {a} Residents of the Campus, and {b} stayed there all night, played mad ball, got bonged, got laid, had a really good time and the Police and Services did nothing about it.

So what's the problem then? Stop playing soccer in the carpark and go to the pitches. I'm not really seeing where the 'harassment' bit is coming from either.

IT Loser wrote:

UNIT CORP COUNTRY GOD!!!
Thats right, no more #10 because people "drink at the stop". I guess the water stopped flowing down the Liffey one week because of all the drinking on the boardwalk

Well, there are public order parallels in that the boardwalk was a no go area after dark with all the junkies, winos and dealers on it. Since the Gardai got powers to seize alcohol being consumed in public it's cleared up a little bit.

I've been on the 10 a few times into town when it was being rocked from side to side and rivers of vomit, beer and piss were rolling down the stairs so I don't really blame the drivers for deciding that enough is enough, it's just bad that they decided to penalise everyone who just wants to get a bus into town as well.

IT Loser wrote:

They parked OUTSIDE the mo'fo'g campus, WALKED IN THRU THE GATE ONTO CAMPUS and into the coffee shop.

Ummm.. so the headline here is 'Gardai buy coffee on campus' then? There's often gardai about anyway since the road safety bureau opened.

Tayto2000

vote4pedro wrote:

God I hate when dweebs bleat this student code out. Do you not think the Gardaí/services can spot a difference between a load of knackers potentially causing trouble and someone drinking from a can on their way to town? I'd say I weekly drink on buses, often from those leaving ucd. Never had any problems from anyone, or caused any problems. Gardai should stop people knacker drinking in big groups or causing mess or excessive noise. Someone finishing a can on their way from their house to a bus doesn't need to be called to account about some nerdy student code.

Well, don't sign up to the student code if you don't agree with it.

Secondly, your argument essentially boils down to 'I should get special treatment because I'm not a knacker'. Deliberately selective enforcement of the rules is inherently unfair. Also, from the Garda point of view, it must be a lot simpler to confiscate cans etc from individuals BEFORE it gets into a drunken mob situation.

vote4pedro wrote:

Oh sweet lord, do you work for Services or are you just the type of person who finds yourself writing a lot of complaint letters about the use of swear words on RTÉ ?

Tbh, I find the ambulance story a bit hard to believe as well simply because I don't think there's any professional ambulance crew who would take any notice of some random security guy when they're in the middle of transporting an injured person to hospital. I think if you ask in the emergency services forum here on boards, that's the answer you'll get there as well. I've seen ambulances following the college jeeps around, maybe it was something like that?

IT Loser

Christ, it seems College is full of jobsworths all over again.

Tayto2000

IT Loser wrote: »

Christ, it seems College is full of jobsworths all over again.

You should know that the 'Yis're all dry ****es' post is considered the UCD boards equivalent of Godwins law...

IT Loser

Tayto2000 wrote: »

Well, don't sign up to the student code if you don't agree with it.

Secondly, your argument essentially boils down to 'I should get special treatment because I'm not a knacker'. Deliberately selective enforcement of the rules is inherently unfair. Also, from the Garda point of view, it must be a lot simpler to confiscate cans etc from individuals BEFORE it gets into a drunken mob situation.



Tbh, I find the ambulance story a bit hard to believe as well simply because I don't think there's any professional ambulance crew who would take any notice of some random security guy when they're in the middle of transporting an injured person to hospital. I think if you ask in the emergency services forum here on boards, that's the answer you'll get there as well. I've seen ambulances following the college jeeps around, maybe it was something like that?

I have never ever seen a drunken mob in College

cHaTbOx

IT Loser wrote: »

I have never ever seen a drunken mob in College

Not trying to insult you or anything but are you blind?
My god monday night was really messy .
3 gardai were in the SU bar I am told.

Blut

They werent inside the bar, just standing around outside stopping people from bringing drinks outside or any messy goings on.

IT Loser

random chatbox wrote: »

Not trying to insult you or anything but are you blind?
My god monday night was really messy .
3 gardai were in the SU bar I am told.

I dont move in those circles, so to speak, but I have been on campus for extended periods and attended plenty of functions, and seen plenty of pissheads, but never a "drunken mob". Never saw tonnes of broken glass or fist fights.

Is there much drug abuse going on then too??

IT Loser

Blut wrote: »

They werent inside the bar, just standing around outside stopping people from bringing drinks outside or any messy goings on.

Could a private security firm not do this job?

Donald-Duck

IT Loser wrote: »

Could a private security firm not do this job?

The ones people like you whinge and cry about every single day?

Also Starring LeVar Burton

IT Loser wrote: »

Is there much drug abuse going on then too??

Anyone else get the impression that IT Loser may be

an enforcer of the law

or is he really just

an IT Loser

?

IT Loser

CaptainNegative wrote: »

Anyone else get the impression that IT Loser may be

an enforcer of the law

or is he really just

an IT Loser

?

just an "IT LOSER".

Ironically, it seems to have escaped your attention that I might be more hell bent on causing trouble or breaking the law, thus my tentative enquiries.

Why would "enforcing the law" alone be the preserve of someone asking the questions I am??

IT Loser

Donald-Duck wrote: »

The ones people like you whinge and cry about every single day?

Very simple idea, even for you to follow: is it not better to have private security firms dick the students about rather than have the Gardai waste time doing it.

I always regarded what went on in College as being a special localised form of horseplay, not requiring Garda attention in the first instance.

Telling 8 guys to get out of a 900,000 sq ft car park miles from anywhere at 11pm should never, ever, be the preserve of a fully paid-up member of the Police force.

Let UCD foot the bill to pay an ossified ancient old jobsworth to threaten to puncture footballs.

Blut

I imagine the guards were there because in my experience services get absolutely zero respect from students and are usually just laughed at/abused/run away from/ignored in situations like that outside the student bar on monday at midnight.

IT Loser

Blut wrote: »

I imagine the guards were there because in my experience services get absolutely zero respect from students and are usually just laughed at/abused/run away from/ignored in situations like that outside the student bar on monday at midnight.

Here is the thing: why not set up a UCD Services which has certain limited powers, powers which could be excercised to right the sort of situation you have described.

One thing I always thought necessary was the surrendering of one student card in order to gain access to these premises to begin with.

Tayto2000

IT Loser wrote: »

Here is the thing: why not set up a UCD Services which has certain limited powers, powers which could be excercised to right the sort of situation you have described.

I don't think that would be possible under Irish law... you'd be talking about effectively setting up a campus police force. Anything that's serious enough to warrant getting the gardai involved would usually allow security (or anyone else present for that matter) to restrain the person until the gardai arrive anyway.

IT Loser wrote: »

One thing I always thought necessary was the surrendering of one student card in order to gain access to these premises to begin with.

Yeah, I think strictly speaking the student bar is a members club for UCD students, not a public house. They're pretty relaxed about enforcing that though... I don't think any bar likes turning away customers!

MizzLolly

Snakes wrote: »

Was this bloke an arts student?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58072235&postcount=7

BusterHighman

Glad I found this thread! There I was thinking the guards where just stalking me, my somewhat boyraceresque car and those lovely big L plates.:p