ESB pays wage hike to workers

gurramok

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/outrage-as-esb-goes-ahead-with-wage-hike-1603946.html

THE national energy supplier has come under fire for agreeing to pay 4,000 staff the first 3.5pc instalment of the national pay deal.

This organisation responsible for one of the highest costs of industrial electricity in Europe as reported by the recent Annual Competitiveness report http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055456785 and we all know how expensive residential electricity is also in the uncompetitive market and are now going to screw the country further when there is simply no economic case with inflation running at 1.1% and plummeting.

To back this up further regarding the already high wage costs at the ESB. See here from 2006 http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/eiro/2006/10/articles/ie0610039i.htm

electricity prices for small users are 51% ahead of the European average.

The average annual salary at ESB stands at €60,437, which is just over twice the average annual Irish industrial wage of €29,787. The review indicates this is 23% above the average salary in the electricity, gas and water sector (€49,282).

The tribune reports is at €67k :mad:
https://www.tribune.ie/article/2008/may/04/esb-the-semi-state-with-the-best-salaries/

lostexpectation

national pay deal.

gurramok

So, whats your view on it?

You and me are paying for this wage hike through expensive electricity. Its also making doing business here even more expensive than it already is.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/1001/energy.html

Interestingly since oil prices collapsed, the so called regulator has not made the ESB pass on the discounts in full :mad:

Macha

Another reason to switch to Airtricity

But I agree, it's disgraceful. We need more competition in the energy sector.

juuge

It is a national disgrace that this should go ahead at this time. The ESB workers on average are the best paid jobs in the country, why? because they have the power to hold the country to ransom. It is time the ESB was sold off and just like the public service a major clean out should take place.

jmayo

The lunatics are in charge of the asylum :rolleyes:
How the feck can this be condoned at this time :mad:
If anything electricity charges should be slashed and the wages of ESB cut not increased.

This country is well and truly f***ed.
Anyone have the IMF phone number because with carry on like this it is only a matter of time.

jimmmy

jmayo wrote: »

The lunatics are in charge of the asylum :rolleyes:
How the feck can this be condoned at this time :mad:
If anything electricity charges should be slashed and the wages of ESB cut not increased.

This country is well and truly f***ed.
Anyone have the IMF phone number because with carry on like this it is only a matter of time.

well said

OhNoYouDidn't

juuge wrote: »

It is a national disgrace that this should go ahead at this time. The ESB workers on average are the best paid jobs in the country, why? because they have the power to hold the country to ransom. It is time the ESB was sold off and just like the public service a major clean out should take place.

So an eircom-esque situation is the way forward?

BroomBurner

It is a disgrace that the energy market is not as open as it should be. There are so many twists and turns involved with opening a new energy supply, including costs. It will take a long time for it to unravel. Kind of like when Telecom Eireann was finally told to open up.

As for the National Wage Deal, noone has officially asked for this to be put on hold, so there is actually no legal basis to stop it going through. i think the private sector members of the deal have also put through the increases. Until it is officially suspended, there is no reason for it not to be awarded.

OhNoYouDidn't

BroomBurner wrote: »

As for the National Wage Deal, noone has officially asked for this to be put on hold, so there is actually no legal basis to stop it going through. i think the private sector members of the deal have also put through the increases. Until it is officially suspended, there is no reason for it not to be awarded.

Exactly. It is not the ordinary worker in EBS's fault that energy prices are high. They could work for a hug at the end of the week and we would still be paying over the odds.

Yet again the polemic is to blame Joe Bloggs and make him pay but not the management / policy decisions that actually are the issue.

jmayo

BroomBurner wrote: »

...
As for the National Wage Deal, noone has officially asked for this to be put on hold, so there is actually no legal basis to stop it going through. i think the private sector members of the deal have also put through the increases. Until it is officially suspended, there is no reason for it not to be awarded.

Please read out loud what you typed and then look at the exchequer figures that have been published. :mad:

jmayo

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Exactly. It is not the ordinary worker in EBS's fault that energy prices are high. They could work for a hug at the end of the week and we would still be paying over the odds.

Yet again the polemic is to blame Joe Bloggs and make him pay but not the management / policy decisions that actually are the issue.

HELLO, are wages not a cost anymore ? :rolleyes:
Maybe wages are just a cost for private sector entities that don't exist either in a vacuum or just to suit the employees.

OhNoYouDidn't

jmayo wrote: »

Please read out loud what you typed and then look at the exchequer figures that have been published. :mad:

thats not a basis to stop a legally binding pay agreement though. the deal is done, move on.

BroomBurner

jmayo wrote: »

Please read out loud what you typed and then look at the exchequer figures that have been published. :mad:

I was stating a fact though, not an opinion. Until those higher up the chain do the business and call for everyone in partnership to vote on it (or suspend partnership and risk strike action), then nothing can be done about it.

I'm not saying that it's right or wrong, I'm simply stating that it's a contract that is in place until someone stops it. And so far, noone has.

jmayo

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

thats not a basis to stop a legally binding pay agreement though. the deal is done, move on.

Oh dear God what an idiotic stance to adopt at this time.
OIt may be legal but where is the money coming from ????

WE REALLY ARE F***ED :mad:

BroomBurner

jmayo wrote: »

Oh dear God what an idiotic stance to adopt at this time.
OIt may be legal but where is the money coming from ????

WE REALLY ARE F***ED :mad:

It's actually not an idiotic stance. There are formalities to go through when revoking any sort of contract. Otherwise, we would be living in fascist state, wouldn't we?

There are legal ramifications to breaking a contract without agreement from all parties involved. That is not the same as saying that all parties involved don't want to break the agreement, just simply that there is a process to follow.

OhNoYouDidn't

jmayo wrote: »

Oh dear God what an idiotic stance to adopt at this time.
OIt may be legal but where is the money coming from ????

WE REALLY ARE F***ED :mad:

so what are you suggesting? the state renage on legally binding agreements? on the subjective basis of your interpretation of the state finances?

I don't think this payrise is warrented or appropriate at this time as it happens. but it is well down there on my list of issues with the current government and its mishandling of the economy over the past 15 years.

nhughes100

Not often I agree with JMayo but it's farcical to pay increases of wages of any sort in this current climate. Anyone who wants an extra 20 quid a week that bankrupts an already bankrupt country is off their rocker. All deals, backpay, current pay agreements, past pay agreements that are held up due to Labour court etc are now off, add in increments and I agree with Enda Kenny, pay freeze until the end of 2010 at the minimum. First on the chopping block - Board members - the definiteive guide of jobs for the boys.

jmayo

BroomBurner wrote: »

It's actually not an idiotic stance. There are formalities to go through when revoking any sort of contract. Otherwise, we would be living in fascist state, wouldn't we?

There are legal ramifications to breaking a contract without agreement from all parties involved. That is not the same as saying that all parties involved don't want to break the agreement, just simply that there is a process to follow.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

so what are you suggesting? the state renage on legally binding agreements? on the subjective basis of your interpretation of the state finances?

I don't think this payrise is warrented or appropriate at this time as it happens. but it is well down there on my list of issues with the current government and its mishandling of the economy over the past 15 years.

Yes I know a lot more about contracts than you may think but this should have been frozen. The government should have raised this with ESB unions and management.

I suppose as OhNoYouDidnt pointed out they are a bunch of incompetent twits and did nothing over the last couple of months about bringing this issue to the table.

Hell the government should have said that they were temporarily freezing all pay increases to public sector bodies as an emergency measure and they would go into discussions.
Let the public sector unions call a strike and see the publics reaction.


It would have helped if they also stated at the same time that they were chopping 80% of ministers of state, cutting top ministers salaries by 30%, and reviewing all senators, co councillors, tds expenses.

But of course nothing happened on anything :mad:

Boston

Jmayo, if we followed your lead ESB employees would strike. They'd probably end up receiving pay increases in excess of the national pay agreement as they work in a vital industry.

banshee_bones

jmayo wrote: »

Yes I know a lot more about contracts than you may think but this should have been frozen. The government should have raised this with ESB unions and management.


Hell the government should have said that they were temporarily freezing all pay increases to public sector bodies as an emergency measure and they would go into discussions.
Let the public sector unions call a strike and see the publics reaction.


It would have helped if they also stated at the same time that they were chopping 80% of ministers of state, cutting top ministers salaries by 30%, and reviewing all senators, co councillors, tds expenses.

But of course nothing happened on anything :mad:

yeah why dont they take a pay cut aswell if they want everyone else to?!

jmayo

Boston wrote: »

Jmayo, if we followed your lead ESB employees would strike. They'd probably end up receiving pay increases in excess of the national pay agreement as they work in a vital industry.

So do nothing with the hope that all this mess goes away when the great hope Obama comes into power in the USA.
Am I paraphrasing a union rep here by any chance ?

All pay increases should have been frozen.
If public sector workers stike then they do.
It is probably going to happen a fair from now on.
BTW we had ESB strikes, Postal strikes etc before and we survived.

Are we going to have situation where the government, IBEC and unions are going to be sitting around a table for a few months, then a few months of votes, meetings and further meetings, all the while the deficit is growing and our borrowing increasing ?

This government is justing wandering aimlessly hoping something turns up to get them out of this mess.
All they learnt from the last 12 years is that you fire money, that they don't
have now, at any problems.

PS correct me if I am wrong but I do seem to remember that you were one of those vociferous in singing the praises of bertie and FF on this forum around the last election :rolleyes:
Sure they were the ones to ensure our bright future, they were the ones that had given us all this growth, construction was great etc, etc.

gurramok

Boston wrote: »

Jmayo, if we followed your lead ESB employees would strike. They'd probably end up receiving pay increases in excess of the national pay agreement as they work in a vital industry.

Let 'em strike.
They won't get any increases due to the country being bankrupt and secondly, they have nowhere else to go as no other country in europe pays their electricity workers that high.

Vital industry?, they should not hold the country to ransom, thats blackmail.

OhNoYouDidn't

jmayo wrote: »

Yes I know a lot more about contracts than you may think but this should have been frozen. The government should have raised this with ESB unions and management.
:

And of course all productivity gains that were agreed with the ESB staff would be frozen also? Just to be consistant like....

OhNoYouDidn't

gurramok wrote: »

Let 'em strike.
They won't get any increases due to the country being bankrupt and secondly, they have nowhere else to go as no other country in europe pays their electricity workers that high.

Vital industry?, they should not hold the country to ransom, thats blackmail.

So basically now times are bad, rip up partnership and go to war with the unions, who lets remind ourselves did not contribute in any way shape or form to the problems we find ourselves in.

Thanks for that constructive input

gandalf

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

And of course all productivity gains that were agreed with the ESB staff would be frozen also? Just to be consistant like....

You are kidding. If they want to strike let them. Start replacing them with some of the unemployed and see if their tune changes. Its time to face down all these public service unions that are holding the rest of us to ransom.

Its time to readjust the ESBs wages to the norm in the industry and to realign electricity costs lower accordingly.

gurramok

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

So basically now times are bad, rip up partnership and go to war with the unions, who lets remind ourselves did not contribute in any way shape or form to the problems we find ourselves in.

Thanks for that constructive input

Yes they did. They accepted constant benchmarking pay rises along with normal pay rises throughout the years based on unsustainable tax revenue streams.

Basically, the ESB unions were paid off by Bertie to prevent any strike occurring hence their wage rates skyrocketed.
Instead of showing greed, those same unions should of accepted inflation level or below inflation pay rewards but no, they took inflation busting pay rises.

ejmaztec

It's nice to know that the ESB workers won't be affected by the income levy in hard-cash terms. They will still get more than they had before if the increase goes through.

I've lived here for 20 years and cannot help but notice that ESB folks seem to be an overpaid and protected species, no matter what the economic situation is. Pure greed.

At this stage, income should be frozen and costs allowed to fall to a lower level. This way, Ireland will become more and more competitive. If pay increases are allowed, then when the world economy is back on track, Ireland will still be the un-competitive high-cost economy that nobody wants to deal with.

jmayo

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

And of course all productivity gains that were agreed with the ESB staff would be frozen also? Just to be consistant like....

Ok so are you saying that they are not productive up until they got this pay rise or they will only be productive if they keep getting pay rises ?
It is bit like a child being bribed to be good by be given sweeties :rolleyes:
So much for all the so called productivity gains due to benchmarking :rolleyes:

A lot of people on here I would bet say they aren't very productive at all, but that is another argument.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

So basically now times are bad, rip up partnership and go to war with the unions, who lets remind ourselves did not contribute in any way shape or form to the problems we find ourselves in.

Thanks for that constructive input

Listen you can have an argument about who is or is not to blame until the cows come home or rather until the IMF come knocking on the door.

A lot of people both in private and public are to blame for this mess, and yes it is not the guys at the bottom, and a lot of people in both private and public did ok out of the great boom times.
Yes ones in certain professions, trades or positions in private sector did best out of the property boom, but they are also the ones suffering most in the bust.
All of that does not help any of us at the moment.

Look at it in a very simple way.
ESB electricity prices stay high, partially due to pretty good salaries of the ones working for ESB.
This makes business in this country less competitive, thus businesses close and/or lay off workers.
This leads to lower tax income and more social welfare costs for government.
In the end they have to increase taxes to make up for tax deficit and pay extra social welfare.

Who do you think will have to pay more income tax?
The unemployed private sector workers or the employed public sector workers ?
Tax the private sector more, the more you make it uncompetitive and the more it contracts.

Either way we are all interlinked and we can all sink or swim together :rolleyes:

ongarite

An example of the power the unions and workers have over ESB management.
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/the-esbs-lights-are-on-but-nobodys-home-117229.html

OhNoYouDidn't

gandalf wrote: »

You are kidding. If they want to strike let them. Start replacing them with some of the unemployed and see if their tune changes. Its time to face down all these public service unions that are holding the rest of us to ransom.

Its time to readjust the ESBs wages to the norm in the industry and to realign electricity costs lower accordingly.

Replace highly skilled electronic engineers with the unemployed?

This is getting ludicrious. Reminds me of Jackie Healy-Rae demanding that the army drive trains on a days training.

No-one is holding anyone to ransom, can you get off the offended bus. ESB workers are simply getting a pre agreed payrise they got in return for productivity changes. There is a legitimate debate as to whether the unions should agree to a deferral, but lay off the hysterics.

thewing

Look, the govt agreed to 3.5% hike, private sector companies have already paid it as well (according to the independent's article) so why shouldn't ESB workers get it? The blame here lies at the foot of the door of Government - the political stunt of bringing forward the budget meant they didn't know how bad things really were until 2.5 months after budget day and 3 months after the partnership agreement was reached. Should have said to hold off until total figures in by year end, so they'd have a better picture of where we stood.

The horse has bolted as regards the partnership agreement, but I think this should be the straw that breaks it.

ejmaztec

jmayo wrote: »

Ok so are you saying that they are not productive up until they got this pay rise or they will only be productive if they keep getting pay rises ?
It is bit like a child being bribed to be good by be given sweeties :rolleyes:
So much for all the so called productivity gains due to benchmarking :rolleyes:

A lot of people on here I would bet say they aren't very productive at all, but that is another argument.



Listen you can have an argument about who is or is not to blame until the cows come home or rather until the IMF come knocking on the door.

A lot of people both in private and public are to blame for this mess, and yes it is not the guys at the bottom, and a lot of people in both private and public did ok out of the great boom times.
Yes ones in certain professions, trades or positions in private sector did best out of the property boom, but they are also the ones suffering most in the bust.
All of that does not help any of us at the moment.

Look at it in a very simple way.
ESB electricity prices stay high, partially due to pretty good salaries of the ones working for ESB.
This makes business in this country less competitive, thus businesses close and/or lay off workers.
This leads to lower tax income and more social welfare costs for government.
In the end they have to increase taxes to make up for tax deficit and pay extra social welfare.

Who do you think will have to pay more income tax?
The unemployed private sector workers or the employed public sector workers ?
Tax the private sector more, the more you make it uncompetitive and the more it contracts.

Either way we are all interlinked and we can all sink or swim together :rolleyes:

There will also be a knock-on effect when those unfortunate individuals with families, who, having lost their jobs, have to visit their local Community Welfare Officer for a hand-out because they can't pay their unmanageable ESB bills. Someone, somewhere, somehow, will have to foot the bill for this ever-increasing cost, then some when the department's budget is exceeded.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

This discussion is bouncing all over the place but:

Someone said to switch to Airtrictiy: ESB are the distribution system owners even if not your supply company. Airtricity et al also availed of recent price increases.

This is a National Pay Deal.

ESB are Private Sector business, despite what many posters have said here. Other Private Sector employees have received the increase since November '07 so why shouldn't this group of private sector employees?

ESB prices are depermined by the CER - bitch to them about prices. They are happy with current efficiencies in ESB. 40% reduction in staff in the past 12 years when workload/new connections/load inprovements increased by 70%.

You're looking at the only state controlled enterprise that pays a dividend to the Shareholder (the Government) and it's in excess of €200M per year. It has never received any government subsidy since the day the company was founded.

But it all boils down to why should one private sector company not pay a National pay Agreement.

Boston

jmayo wrote: »

So do nothing with the hope that all this mess goes away when the great hope Obama comes into power in the USA.
Am I paraphrasing a union rep here by any chance ?

All pay increases should have been frozen.
If public sector workers stike then they do.
It is probably going to happen a fair from now on.
BTW we had ESB strikes, Postal strikes etc before and we survived.

Those strikes where hugely damaging to the countries economy. If we start to get a reputation for regular power cuts, its will stifle investment.

PS correct me if I am wrong but I do seem to remember that you were one of those vociferous in singing the praises of bertie and FF on this forum around the last election :rolleyes:
Sure they were the ones to ensure our bright future, they were the ones that had given us all this growth, construction was great etc, etc.

I forgot I had 100,000 posts and as such avoided FF a landslide.

gandalf wrote: »

You are kidding. If they want to strike let them. Start replacing them with some of the unemployed and see if their tune changes. Its time to face down all these public service unions that are holding the rest of us to ransom.

Its time to readjust the ESBs wages to the norm in the industry and to realign electricity costs lower accordingly.

There's not a huge number of people with the skill set required sitting on the dole. Bringing in scab labour isn't feasible and would more then likely result in an all out strike rather then a work to rule situation. The high wages paid the ESB workers are a reflection of the high wages paid to people often with less qualifications, in the building industry.

gandalf

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Replace highly skilled electronic engineers with the unemployed?

So they are all "highly skilled electronic engineers" I think not. A small percentage of them could be and I am sure there are electronic engineers in the growing unemployed population that can replace them.

This is getting ludicrious. Reminds me of Jackie Healy-Rae demanding that the army drive trains on a days training.

Not at all. What is ludicrous is taking a pay rise when they should be at the very least frozen or at best taking a pay cut to balance the pay cuts and job losses in the private sector especially as they are well above the average industrial wage and have far better pension and leave entitlements.

Expecting to continue on milking the nation while the rest of us struggle is what I would classify as ludicrous.

No-one is holding anyone to ransom, can you get off the offended bus. ESB workers are simply getting a pre agreed payrise they got in return for productivity changes. There is a legitimate debate as to whether the unions should agree to a deferral, but lay off the hysterics.

What productivity changes? If the government asked them to take a pay cut for the sake of the economy I think we all know what the result would be, a strike.

Boston

gandalf wrote: »

So they are all "highly skilled electronic engineers" I think not. A small percentage of them could be and I am sure there are electronic engineers in the growing unemployed population that can replace them.

Very few would be electronic engineers. But you would have a lot of electrical technicians and similarly skilled people. It takes two years to get a suitable qualification and longer again to be trained up be the ESB for that they want. There is some cross over from other industries but keep in mind there was never the glut in the skilled labour force that there was in the unskilled one, and also that it isn't a simply transition from working on a building site to working in a power plant.

bill_ashmount

gurramok wrote: »

Let 'em strike.
They won't get any increases due to the country being bankrupt and secondly, they have nowhere else to go as no other country in europe pays their electricity workers that high.

Vital industry?, they should not hold the country to ransom, thats blackmail.

Agree 100%

jmayo

Olive Unsightly Senior wrote: »

This discussion is bouncing all over the place but:
ESB are Private Sector business, despite what many posters have said here. Other Private Sector employees have received the increase since November '07 so why shouldn't this group of private sector employees?

ESB prices are depermined by the CER - bitch to them about prices. They are happy with current efficiencies in ESB. 40% reduction in staff in the past 12 years when workload/new connections/load inprovements increased by 70%.

You're looking at the only state controlled enterprise that pays a dividend to the Shareholder (the Government) and it's in excess of €200M per year. It has never received any government subsidy since the day the company was founded.

But it all boils down to why should one private sector company not pay a National pay Agreement.

ESB is not a private sector company, it is a semi state with the government, i.e. the taxpayer, being the owner.
I haven't seen their shares quoted on any stock exchange, have you ?
It is not a private sector company.
Eircom is though and Aer Lingus can't make up it's mind what it is :rolleyes:

Wipee it pays a dividend to the government. Maybe that would be because it screws the consumers, be they personal or business, for the service they provide.
Look at it another way it is another form of taxation :rolleyes:

Can you please tell us all who are all these private sector workers that got pay rises since November ?

Then tell us how many pay rises some of them got over the last 5 years that would compare with let's say .... the ESB workers ?

Oh and please do not trot out with plumbers, brickies and electricans, etc who were all now linked to a rapidly shrinking industry.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

gandalf wrote: »

What is ludicrous is taking a pay rise when they should be at the very least frozen or at best taking a pay cut to balance the pay cuts and job losses in the private sector especially as they are well above the average industrial wage and have far better pension and leave entitlements.

You seem to forget that ESB is classed as Private Sector not Public!

Would you take the same approach to P. Kelly Ltd who make a gromit for washing machines when they paid the 3.5% increase and the price of your washer went up to compensate? What about every other private sector business that has paid the increase and whose goods or sevrivces you avail of. Care to moan about them.

I wonder how many private sector hours are lost by employees accessing the internet and posting on sites such as these!;)

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

jmayo wrote: »

ESB is not a private sector company, it is a semi state with the government, i.e. the taxpayer, being the owner.
I haven't seen their shares quoted on any stock exchange, have you ?
It is not a private sector company.
Eircom is though and Aer Lingus can't make up it's mind what it is :rolleyes:
.

Get your facts straight first.:rolleyes:

ESB is certainly classified as Private Sector.(If it were Public Sector it would still be in the pay pause period of the agreement for Public Sector, if nothing else.)
Yes the Government owns 95% of the company but that does not make it a semi-state body as no government funds were ever employed in subsidising or financing the company. It is state owned - a major difference.
It has shares but they are not publically traded. Have you seen Dunnes Stores quotes on the stock exchange, or are you going to tell us Dunnes is Public Sector as well? Forget what you learned in Primary School and get with the facts.

As for companies which have paid the pay deal. I'm not listing them here but many many unionised private sector companies have already paid the first stage of the deal as agreed. (I'm in one and have mates in several others).

nhughes100

Couple of things here, There is an inability to pay clause in all pay agreements as far as I know. It was used regularly during the good times to boost profits in the private sector.

There is also a sound industrial relations clause in the national pay agreements, if you strike you don't get the rise. This was an Ahern master stroke which dramatically reduced the amount of working days lost to strike action.

Finally isn't there something about only being able to sack someone if their job doesn't exist any more? IE you can't just replace them unless of course they were in breach of their contract etc, isn't this what caused the Irish Ferries marches a few years ago? Just imagine the riots if they sacked 100's of ESB staff and took on a load of lads of the dole the following week. It would be like the minor's strike in the 80's.

gandalf

Olive Unsightly Senior wrote: »

You seem to forget that ESB is classed as Private Sector not Public!

Would you take the same approach to P. Kelly Ltd who make a gromit for washing machines when they paid the 3.5% increase and the price of your washer went up to compensate? What about every other private sector business that has paid the increase and whose goods or sevrivces you avail of. Care to moan about them.

By your own admission 95% of the funding comes from the Government. Therefore anything that keeps the costs down benefits the whole country. Having an overpaid and overinflated workforce costs Tax payers money. So I count them as Public Sector because they are wasting tax monies.

I wonder how many private sector hours are lost by employees accessing the internet and posting on sites such as these!;)

Yes I wonder :rolleyes:

grahamo

gurramok wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/outrage-as-esb-goes-ahead-with-wage-hike-1603946.html


This organisation responsible for one of the highest costs of industrial electricity in Europe as reported by the recent Annual Competitiveness report http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055456785 and we all know how expensive residential electricity is also in the uncompetitive market and are now going to screw the country further when there is simply no economic case with inflation running at 1.1% and plummeting.

To back this up further regarding the already high wage costs at the ESB. See here from 2006 http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/eiro/2006/10/articles/ie0610039i.htm



The tribune reports is at €67k :mad:
https://www.tribune.ie/article/2008/may/04/esb-the-semi-state-with-the-best-salaries/

So the ESB workers are getting a pay rise AGREED by all parties under a national pay deal. So what? They've earned it. They've agreed to whatever productivity changes proposed and done their part of the deal. I'm glad to see some employers have decided not to welch on it. Typical irish begrudgery.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

gandalf wrote: »

By your own admission 95% of the funding comes from the Government. Therefore So I count them as Public Sector because they are wasting tax monies.

Read what I wrote again. 95% of the shares are held by the government and no (Nil) funds have every been made to the company from the state. ESB has always been self financing. There is no waste of tax monies as no tax monies were ever given to ESB. In deed they pay a dividend on the shareholding to government every year. There is a difference between the government holding 95% of the company and them funding 95% of the company. You can count them in any sector you like but it doesn't change the FACT that they are Private Sector.

ejmaztec

grahamo wrote: »

So the ESB workers are getting a pay rise AGREED by all parties under a national pay deal. So what? They've earned it. They've agreed to whatever productivity changes proposed and done their part of the deal. I'm glad to see some employers have decided not to welch on it. Typical irish begrudgery.

I'd say typical arrogant ESB greed.

When the ESB decides to live in the real world, we'll all be happy. The ESB has had it too good for too long and has gone a long way in making the cost of living in Ireland what it is today.

mountainyman

BroomBurner wrote: »

It is a disgrace that the energy market is not as open as it should be. There are so many twists and turns involved with opening a new energy supply, including costs. It will take a long time for it to unravel. Kind of like when Telecom Eireann was finally told to open up.

The energy market has been opened. The price of electricity was raised in order that private sector companies could sell it at a profit.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

mountainyman wrote: »

The energy market has been opened. The price of electricity was raised in order that private sector companies could sell it at a profit.

Totally true. The rugulator had to increase prices because the new companies said they couldn't make a profit on existing prices in Ireland. It actually shows how good ESB were at providing the services for the price. Players have entered the market and disappeared again very quickly as the Domestic end of the business is never going to be profitable for them. They'll only stay if prices are high enough and they can cherrypick the profitable customers leaving the rest to ESB.

grahamo

ejmaztec wrote: »

I'd say typical arrogant ESB greed.

When the ESB decides to live in the real world, we'll all be happy. The ESB has had it too good for too long and has gone a long way in making the cost of living in Ireland what it is today.

So now if you get an agreed pay rise you are GREEDY?

Greed is what the bankers, retailers and property developers and IBEC have been indulging in for the last 15 years or so.

murfie

Olive Unsightly Senior wrote: »

Totally true. The rugulator had to increase prices because the new companies said they couldn't make a profit on existing prices in Ireland. It actually shows how good ESB were at providing the services for the price. Players have entered the market and disappeared again very quickly as the Domestic end of the business is never going to be profitable for them. They'll only stay if prices are high enough and they can cherrypick the profitable customers leaving the rest to ESB.

Maybe that has something to do with the fact that the ESB owns the polls and wires that the private company uses. They have priced any competitor out of the market with the charges they look for for use of the infrastructure.

And fair enough I say but don't screw over your customers as well as your competitors when you have a monopoly on the market!

Boston

murfie wrote: »

Maybe that has something to do with the fact that the ESB owns the polls and wires that the private company uses. They have priced any competitor out of the market with the charges they look for for use of the infrastructure.

That's exactly the problem. Same thing happened to eircom LLU. something counter competitive about your competition owning the network have to use.