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Local bike shops vs UK online retailers

  • 14-01-2009 6:41pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 564 ✭✭✭


    I had an exchange today (by email) with the proprieter of a well known bike shop in Dublin. I had emailed to ask him if he had any long-reach brake calipers for my new road bike frame, which I need soon. Was willing to spend about at the very most €60 and I was looking specifically for Shimano R650s, which retail at about €50 from CRC but are currently out of stock and are not available widely.

    The owner replied back saying he could get Shimano r650s that afternoon but would cost €90. No way, I thought and replied back saying politely I thought that was too much and told him the CRC price.

    His reply was that he was well aware of prices in other countries but that they had to work within the vat rate of 21.5 % and far higher minimum wages than NI. the rock bottom retail is €79, he said.

    He added that I should buy in ireland and help keep their jobs.

    A bit cheeky I thought, given his initial €90 price. But are things really that tight for LBSs?

    PS I found a pair of Tektro long reach R730s for €30 from On-one/Planet X.


«1

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,390 ✭✭✭IM0


    I wouldnt bother quoting online UK prices to the LBS as they generally get quite pissed off with it, as they just cannot compete...period. use it as a way to knock them down on price and haggle but dont expect them to price match it! in the old days (the last 5 years when the economy was boomin) if you tried that they would say "buy it there then" and basically tell you to feck off so they could deal with everyone elses cash in the boom times. I found all the city centre shops to have 'attitude' of various levels - CSS were much better.

    Now there lookin for customers and its a bit of a boy cryin wolf as far as Im concerned, conscience is clear for me to buy online now. They got a bit to cocky for my liking over the last 5+years.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,001 ✭✭✭scottreynolds


    Its painful I know but its your pocket and 40% higher prices isn't justified...... At the end of the day we aren't gonna have any bike shops left.....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 995 ✭✭✭Ryder


    Not sure wether its right or wrong to buy online. No doubt that during the good years everyone was taking the piss with prices but now i hope at least that the LBS is as low as it can go. I think if you can afford it you prob should buy locally partic for complete bikes.

    The only thing that i think is wrong is if people go to the LBS to get sized and then buy online.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,223 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    LBS know that stuff is cheaper, and accept/expect that people will shop online, just don't rub their noses in it by trying to haggle. The furthest I'd go is "is that your best price?"; mentioning CRC or Wiggle by name will just annoy them.

    When I buy stuff from a LBS, it's because I can't be bothered to wait for delivery or need fitting or advice that I can't get online, and am happy to pay 60% more for that service.

    I was in a bike shop a few days ago and a young lad came in and asked to swap some stuff he'd bought online from CRC. After the proprietor has stopped loudly taking the piss, he actually let him do it (although I didn't hear the terms).

    The good ones won't go out of business.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,505 ✭✭✭✭DirkVoodoo


    Like Lumen says, in some cases I am happy to pay the premium for the service and also supporting a local business.

    Some bikeshops treat customers like they are a minor inconvenience and are happy to sell you something and broom you out the door as quick as possible. I would not wish misfortune on anyone, but these shops will soon find that people do value good service and a friendly smile, and it costs nothing for them!

    For me, a good bike shops in Ireland is one that you can go in to and feel like you are valued, maybe have a little chat about cycling and send your bike in to get serviced without a load of sighs and tuts.

    I have 2 shops that I will buy from, heck I even liked the guy in cycle surgery because he chatted for a few minutes, despite my reservations about the shop initially.

    If you go in and its no different from clicking a page on the internet and handing over your credit card, then save yourself the money and buy online.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,278 ✭✭✭kenmc


    Itsfixed wrote: »
    PS I found a pair of Tektro long reach R730s for €30 from On-one/Planet X.
    Looking to get a pair of these, but add in shipping it comes to 40-odd sterling :(

    Edit: actually thats hilarious. Same thing in OnOne is 30 sterling! 4 quid shipping vs 13 quid shipping!


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    The sense of entitlement of some bike shop owners is unreal. The web changes the way retail works and its not just them but everyone who has to deal with it. To be honest, I don't get a lot of sentimental feelings people have about local bike shops. Most of them I've found have had a crap selection, ignorant staff and a pretty poor attitude. Some have prices that are not only well north of online prices, but far higher than some of their peers.

    If you want to survive in this day and age you need to do a few things well.

    1. Sell bikes. Capitalise on the advice on sizing and component choices you can give. Let the customer feel that while he may pay less online, at least he'll being buying the right bike for him at your shop. I've come across remarkably few shop assistants who can instill this kind of confidence in me.

    2. Service. Your online retailer can't fit a new groupset, true your wheels, adjust your gears. You can. Don't go asking the customer bought it online. Just fix it and take the money.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,390 ✭✭✭IM0


    Lumen wrote: »

    When I buy stuff from a LBS, it's because I can't be bothered to wait for delivery....

    yeah thats a significant reason I shop online..that and the "we can order it in" - well I can do that online and save a ton! and not even have to leave my house, que, get attitude from little sh*ts, travel yada yada...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,390 ✭✭✭IM0


    el tonto wrote: »

    2. Service. Your online retailer can't fit a new groupset, true your wheels, adjust your gears. You can. Don't go asking the customer bought it online. Just fix it and take the money.

    yeah I do everything myself except headset installation and facing and BB the same (tools too expensive), and truing wheels (though I dont need them trued much just after the initial break in period and thats just cheaper wheels). So I give the shops these services though they nearly throw it back in my face. plus some stuff they dont carry in their shops anyway :rolleyes:


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    me@ucd wrote: »
    yeah I do everything myself except headset installation and facing and BB the same (tools too expensive), and truing wheels (though I dont need them trued much just after the initial break in period and thats just cheaper wheels). So I give the shops these services though they nearly throw it back in my face. plus some stuff they dont carry in their shops anyway :rolleyes:

    Headset installation is easy enough with the newer threadless headsets.

    Truing wheels is tricky and a total pain in the ass from my point of view. I really hate it and it takes me several attempts to get it right. Yet I do it myself because I have yet to find a shop that will do a decent job. That's an example. I'll gladly pay good money for a shop to do this if only I could find someone to do it properly.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭xz


    normally I buy online, but yesterday after trawling the interweb for Conti Ultra Gatorskins that seem to be out of stock everywhere, I ended up in my LBS, only to find he had sold his last pair the day before. I really needed new tyres so I went with Bontrager Race Lite Hard Case, prepotedly pretty puncture resistent (will let you all know how I get on with them at a later date).

    Anyway, my point being, your LBS is great for emergencies, but if you become quite regular with your custom, and have a brassneck, you can ask for discounts, and you may be surprised at what you get.
    Granted most LBS's can't compete with online and UK prices because of VAT differences etc. But who are there when you need them the most? In these times of "recession" I have found they are more willing to reciprocate a deal for a sale.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 421 ✭✭SetOverSet


    I personally have has mixed experiences with shops in Dublin, but I have absolutely no pangs of conscience about purchasing online. Not an online retailer but an '08 Tarmac Elite will set you back around 1,100 from McConveys up north whereas a shop in Dublin are looking for 1,999 for the same bike - 80% more! I know shops down here just cannot match our northern cousins or UK online retailers, but they have to stop taking the p***


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,246 ✭✭✭Hungrycol


    Dont worry, LBS are about to come into a windfall with this bike to work scheme. Things will never be better and I imagine these sales alone will see them through 2009.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 163 ✭✭Darby OGill


    I find that retail staff who know and care about the stuff they sell to be very much the exception. I nearly always do a bit of research before I buy anything. Alas, this has the effect of ruling out just about every shop I've ever been to in this country, as I know more than they do and it's pretty obvious from the start.

    I hate the "we can order it in" line- it's rarely delivered on and it's always said in that tone that let's you know it's a pain for them. I'm convinced most retail businesses in this country go bust because of crap customer service, not lack of buyers.

    I did meet a guy recently who really knew his stuff- no surprise there was a queue to see him on a Sunday afternoon! Nothing was a problem for this man. He even gave me an item I needed from a display model as he said it wasn't fair to ask us to come back for one piece- he could get a replacement himself- now that's service.

    I always buy online now. It's rubbish retailers have driven me to it. And the prices here are a joke, higher VAT or not....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    Will Wiggle meet me late on a Friday night with a spare race wheel?

    I'll continue to give most of my business to my LBS.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,386 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    tunney wrote: »
    Will Wiggle meet me late on a Friday night with a spare race wheel?

    I'll continue to give most of my business to my LBS.
    For similar reasons I will use online stores, e.g. if I need a part midweek with no way of getting to a LBS without taking time off work, I can have CRC delivery it to me, with courier if over the set amount. I usually get stuff 2-3 days after ordering.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,038 ✭✭✭penexpers


    Itsfixed wrote: »
    But are things really that tight for LBSs?

    Yep they are. I get the impression that mark up on parts and bikes is minimal and that most of the money is made off service. If he sells you the brakes for 79 euro, he's more than likely just about breaking even on them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,318 ✭✭✭✭Raam


    I don't mind buying bikes locally, in fact all of my bikes come from local shops. The missus bought most of hers online.
    Whenever I go into the shop for service/parts I always tap them up for some advice which you just can't get online.

    If the repair or part replacement is simple, then I'll buy online and do it myself (or get TinyExplosions to do it ;) )

    If the shop are doing a repair to my bike, I ask them what they did, how they did it, and then I know a bit more for next time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,831 ✭✭✭ROK ON


    I buy from both, but prefer to use the LBS. I just think that in these times it is important to try and keep as much money as is possible within the economy.

    Global outsourcing and internet retailing is not a bad idea in theory, but for a small economy like ours it can have pretty disturbing side effects on society. We could end up with small town Ireland denuded of shops as people cannot afford to compete. A lot of 'middle England' has become like this in the past two decades.

    There are very good retailers out there.

    Worldwide Cycles in Clonmel. Only dealt with them a few times, but friendly, efficient, knowledgeable. Currently having a little bit of back pain from a bike that I purchased from them. They are sending me a shorter stem for free. No quibbles, just a pleasure to deal with.

    Cycle Superstore in Tallaght. Phoned to get something done to the bike.
    They phoned me back to advise me that I could be waiting a while if they were busy, and suggested a less busy time. I like that. It is a pain in the backside being left wait in a store. Far more helpful to be told upfront if they are going to give you the attention/or can't.

    Back in Limerick over the Christmas, and went to Bike Shop in O'Connell Ave. He had a queue out the door of people collecting Christmas bikes. Yet every customer that came in, he said that he was busy, but asked could he helped.
    I needed lube and cleaning stuff. He gave me them straight away. Another guy who had just come in was collecting a bike - he told him at the door that he would be 30mins, rather than leave the guy wait.

    There are some LBS that are staffed by uncaring idiots. A lot are not.
    There is no point in trying to compare LBS prices with large internet retailers.
    However, if everything in an economy becomes about price, then very quickly we wont have much of a society left. Go visit small town England any time. Smal town shops have been replaced by cheaper big box out of town retailers. Very quickly this destorys the fabric of a town. This is now happening all over Ireland as well.

    The internet has its place, but so does the LBS.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,278 ✭✭✭kenmc


    Yes in theory all LBS would be as you described the 3 above, however many of them are more in it for the quick buck now rather than the potential of ongoing revenue from repeat business.

    The ones that won't service a bike cos it wasn't bought there are either doing brilliantly and have a gigantic customer base, or are just biting off their nose to spite their face, and deserve to go under. The world has changed in the last X years. The Business models of old are long gone. Innovate or die.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,604 ✭✭✭petethedrummer


    ROK ON wrote: »
    I buy from both, but prefer to use the LBS. I just think that in these times it is important to try and keep as much money as is possible within the economy.

    Global outsourcing and internet retailing is not a bad idea in theory, but for a small economy like ours it can have pretty disturbing side effects on society. We could end up with small town Ireland denuded of shops as people cannot afford to compete. A lot of 'middle England' has become like this in the past two decades.

    However, if everything in an economy becomes about price, then very quickly we wont have much of a society left. Go visit small town England any time. Smal town shops have been replaced by cheaper big box out of town retailers. Very quickly this destorys the fabric of a town. This is now happening all over Ireland as well.

    You read my mind...Its the same for newsagents and record stores in this country. Its getting harder and harder to find an independent retailer. Hopefully we also don't go down the chain pub route as they have in England, they are an abomination.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭alfalad


    For bikes themselves I would buy from a LBS that way you can get a feel for the bike, although granted I did go up north to buy a Wilier last weekend, but has to be said the guy I dealt with in Border City Cycles was very friendly, gave me loads of advice and there are very few stockists of Wiliers in the south. But i think the key is customer service for these guys, you can't expect them to carry a range of top end bikes cause thats a massive outlay of cash for them when most of their business comes from selling childerns bikes and entry level leisure bikes! But it's how they deal with you thats important to me for example I just got a email from the shop asking have I had a chance to get out properly on the bike yet and what do I think! Now that's what I call customer service, and will def be going back to him to get my next bike and to get this one serviced even if it is an hour + drive for me!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,718 ✭✭✭AstraMonti


    I wouldn't buy anything that i don't immediately need from a LBS. The reason is simple, i would pay it 60% more and in most cases double. The only reason i am going to a LBS is for a bike service. I understand that the things are tight for them, but things are tight for anyone :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,714 ✭✭✭Ryaner


    ROK ON wrote: »
    Cycle Superstore in Tallaght. Phoned to get something done to the bike.
    They phoned me back to advise me that I could be waiting a while if they were busy, and suggested a less busy time. I like that. It is a pain in the backside being left wait in a store. Far more helpful to be told upfront if they are going to give you the attention/or can't.

    Time I was there recently I had to point out a number of pricing mistakes between what their computer scanned and what they had advertised on the website / shelf. It also took about ten minutes for someone to come over so I could pay.
    I did get some good advice about bikes when I talked to someone upstairs but they only had the model one below the bike I got off wiggle and it was over 300 euro more expensive. All well in good wanting to keep money in the economy, but there is limits to what is acceptable.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,669 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    tunney wrote: »
    Will Wiggle meet me late on a Friday night with a spare race wheel?

    I'll continue to give most of my business to my LBS.

    Spot on , !'ve had had bikes rebuilt at 2 hours notice before an evening race. CRC may be cheap but you'll never get that level of service.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    RobFowl wrote: »
    Spot on , !'ve had had bikes rebuilt at 2 hours notice before an evening race. CRC may be cheap but you'll never get that level of service.

    What shops are you guys using that give you this level of service?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,318 ✭✭✭✭Raam


    When I was having trouble with the BB and crankset of my first road bike, Cycleways offered to lend and install a temporary one while they waited for delivery of my replacement. Chapeu Cycleways!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,831 ✭✭✭ROK ON


    Ryaner wrote: »
    Time I was there recently I had to point out a number of pricing mistakes between what their computer scanned and what they had advertised on the website / shelf. It also took about ten minutes for someone to come over so I could pay.
    I did get some good advice about bikes when I talked to someone upstairs but they only had the model one below the bike I got off wiggle and it was over 300 euro more expensive. All well in good wanting to keep money in the economy, but there is limits to what is acceptable.

    Fair enough, there is no excuse for that. I am not a spokesman for them. Just pointing out that I have gotten reasonable service from the.
    I hope that they gave you the cheapest of the two prices in that case.

    Also, bought a pair of Conti Gatorskins from the last week - same price as wiggle, and cheaper in that there was no shipping cost, and there would have been something with wiggle.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,831 ✭✭✭ROK ON


    There is a significant difference in price for many online vs high street independent retailers. Not a lot we can do about it.

    However many of us impulse buy from the web because stuff appears to be cheap. However, if we didn't actually need the stuff in the first place, it may well be cheap, but not good value.

    If people bought what they needed, and didn't impukse buy, then they may have more cash to pay that premium for stuff that is needed from the (deserving) LBS.
    Only a thought!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    RobFowl wrote: »
    Spot on , !'ve had had bikes rebuilt at 2 hours notice before an evening race. CRC may be cheap but you'll never get that level of service.

    I've had race wheels replaced the night before races, spare parts delivered to me at races, at one race I realised I had the wrong ratio on the back on the way to the race and when I got there I had another cassette waiting for me.

    Can't put a price on having your ass saved just before a race.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    tunney wrote: »
    I've had race wheels replaced the night before races, spare parts delivered to me at races, at one race I realised I had the wrong ratio on the back on the way to the race and when I got there I had another cassette waiting for me.

    Can't put a price on having your ass saved just before a race.

    So, who's your LBS?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 413 ✭✭mr. pleasant


    i agree with those asking for better service.

    since i came to this country i haven't found a bike shop with a positive attitude, and i've tried a few.

    it's a sad joke to bring in your bike on a saturday afternoon asking to get new break pads fixed (preferably asap) and being told to leave the bike and come back on tuesday (!)

    the prices are ridiculous as well. how come that anything with an 105 on it will set me back solid +1000€, when i can buy them in shops in Germany for around 800-900 (local stores, not online) VAT in Germany is now at 19%

    feel free to show me where i'm wrong, i'd be happy to find a good local store.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,431 ✭✭✭zzzzzzzz


    el tonto wrote: »
    Truing wheels is tricky and a total pain in the ass from my point of view. I really hate it and it takes me several attempts to get it right. Yet I do it myself because I have yet to find a shop that will do a decent job. That's an example. I'll gladly pay good money for a shop to do this if only I could find someone to do it properly.

    I've been told that the polish bloke that works in Jimmy Stagg's in Lucan is the man when it comes to wheel building & truing


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,038 ✭✭✭penexpers


    i agree with those asking for better service.

    since i came to this country i haven't found a bike shop with a positive attitude, and i've tried a few.

    it's a sad joke to bring in your bike on a saturday afternoon asking to get new break pads fixed (preferably asap) and being told to leave the bike and come back on tuesday (!)

    the prices are ridiculous as well. how come that anything with an 105 on it will set me back solid +1000€, when i can buy them in shops in Germany for around 800-900 (local stores, not online) VAT in Germany is now at 19%

    feel free to show me where i'm wrong, i'd be happy to find a good local store.

    In all fairness, fixing brake pads is something you should be able to to do yourself. Not like it needs any special tools.

    Most bike shops won't do repairs on the spot anymore, they insist on booking the repairs in advance. It's probably just to maximise the amount of work they can do with the mechanics. Also, I know my LBS can only employ one mechanic and he doesn't work weekends.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    it's a sad joke to bring in your bike on a saturday afternoon asking to get new break pads fixed (preferably asap) and being told to leave the bike and come back on tuesday (!)

    Brake pads is a DIY job. You'd get it done in five minutes yourself.
    the prices are ridiculous as well. how come that anything with an 105 on it will set me back solid +1000€, when i can buy them in shops in Germany for around 800-900 (local stores, not online) VAT in Germany is now at 19%.

    Import costs to Ireland (an island nation) are probably higher. You'd have lower volumes here too. So importing 10,000 bikes will more than likely work out cheaper per unti than importing 1,000.


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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    I've been told that the polish bloke that works in Jimmy Stagg's in Lucan is the man when it comes to wheel building & truing

    Bit of a trek for me given I don't have a car, but I'll keep him in mind for the next time (which hopefully won't be any time soon).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,995 ✭✭✭✭blorg


    ROK ON wrote: »
    There is a significant difference in price for many online vs high street independent retailers. Not a lot we can do about it.

    However many of us impulse buy from the web because stuff appears to be cheap. However, if we didn't actually need the stuff in the first place, it may well be cheap, but not good value.

    If people bought what they needed, and didn't impukse buy, then they may have more cash to pay that premium for stuff that is needed from the (deserving) LBS.
    Only a thought!
    This makes no sense, I could not possibly afford 8 bikes if I bought them all from the LBS. :)

    BTW shipping from Wiggle to Ireland is now free with no minimum spend.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    i agree with those asking for better service.

    since i came to this country i haven't found a bike shop with a positive attitude, and i've tried a few.

    it's a sad joke to bring in your bike on a saturday afternoon asking to get new break pads fixed (preferably asap) and being told to leave the bike and come back on tuesday (!)

    the prices are ridiculous as well. how come that anything with an 105 on it will set me back solid +1000€, when i can buy them in shops in Germany for around 800-900 (local stores, not online) VAT in Germany is now at 19%

    feel free to show me where i'm wrong, i'd be happy to find a good local store.

    Seriously? you expect priority treatment for changing brake blocks?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,246 ✭✭✭Hungrycol


    blorg wrote: »
    This makes no sense, I could not possibly afford 8 bikes if I bought them all from the LBS. :)

    BTW shipping from Wiggle to Ireland is now free with no minimum spend.

    YOU HAVE 8 BIKES?!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 413 ✭✭mr. pleasant


    tunney wrote: »
    Seriously? you expect priority treatment for changing brake blocks?

    i'm not talking about priority treatment, and i'm not talking about doing it myself. it may be easy but i've never done it and i don't want to do it.

    whats the problem with bringing it to a store, saying please check the brakes and put new pads on, i'll be back in an hour/2hours/later that afternoon/sunday afternoon.

    if it only takes five minutes, you need no special tools for it and an idiot like me is willing and able to pay for it, whats the issue?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,001 ✭✭✭scottreynolds


    i'm not talking about priority treatment, and i'm not talking about doing it myself. it may be easy but i've never done it and i don't want to do it.

    whats the problem with bringing it to a store, saying please check the brakes and put new pads on, i'll be back in an hour/2hours/later that afternoon/sunday afternoon.

    if it only takes five minutes, you need no special tools for it and an idiot like me is willing and able to pay for it, whats the issue?

    +1 -- Why can't a LBS just do it.... I would but then again I'm a nice guy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,833 ✭✭✭niceonetom


    tunney wrote: »
    Will Wiggle meet me late on a Friday night with a spare race wheel?

    I'll continue to give most of my business to my LBS.
    RobFowl wrote: »
    Spot on , !'ve had had bikes rebuilt at 2 hours notice before an evening race. CRC may be cheap but you'll never get that level of service.

    can i ask you guys about how much time and money did you have to invest in these LBSs to get to that level of importance? read the thread - your experience is the exception, not the norm. i'm one of the many who used to ( and sick of) a pathetic level of indifference, incompetence, and taking-the-piss pricing. so maybe you could point us all to somewhere we'll be treated somewhat better? and if entry into this elite club of preferred customers is thousands of euros, and hours of ingratiating conversation, well that's not going to happen for me. i shouldn't have to be on first name terms with the staff to not be treated as a minor inconvenience. i'll do my shopping online. and my bike chat too.

    i'm willing to bet that we're having the opposite customer experience in some of the same shops! it's no longer good enough to treat the big spending experts like royalty. while you're up there discussing wattages (or whatever) have a look over your shoulder. see that middle aged dude looking lost? or the student who needs something done to his gears? or the middle aged woman whose son's birthday is in 2 weeks? well they're being ignored. and they're not only shopping online - we, here on boards, are telling them how to do it, and what to buy.

    frankly, i'd take google, boards and sheldon for advice over any LBS.

    if i'm honest there are shops in ireland that i will shed no tears for when they inevitably fold. i'm not proud of that but, there you go. i'll feel sorry for the staff, sure, but part of me will be saying, well, that's what you get. the cream will remain, and be stronger for it when the money returns in a few years.

    el tonto wrote: »
    So, who's your LBS?

    yeah don't be so coy, who are these people?


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    whats the problem with bringing it to a store, saying please check the brakes and put new pads on, i'll be back in an hour/2hours/later that afternoon/sunday afternoon.

    Because they may have a backlog of bigger jobs such as building bikes or wheels, swapping groupsets etc that custoemrs are actually paying them a decent whack to do. Should they just drop all that for a job that they're probably only going to get a tenner's worth of labour out of? Even a good bike shop probably wouldn't do this.

    It's one step away from bringing in your bike and asking them to pump up the tyres.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 413 ✭✭mr. pleasant


    el tonto wrote: »
    Because they may have a backlog of bigger jobs such as building bikes or wheels, swapping groupsets etc that custoemrs are actually paying them a decent whack to do. Should they just drop all that for a job that they're probably only going to get a tenner's worth of labour out of? Even a good bike shop probably wouldn't do this.

    It's one step away from bringing in your bike and asking them to pump up the tyres.

    okay i can see its my fault. sorry for asking.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 597 ✭✭✭Tayto2000


    Price differences North/South have been in the news a lot lately. According to a study done last year, higher overheads here should only account for a 5-6% price difference. I try and buy LBS as much as possible, but when the difference is anything up to 60%, well...

    I think the reason for the high prices is about ten years of companies being able to make supernormal profits in Ireland. Since we were all caught up with the novelty of having a lot of cash, the fact that we were paying well over the odds for absolutely everything was basically ignored to the extent that it was possible for car manufacturers (for example) to have a special price list for Ireland or companies like M&S to add a 20-30% markup.

    The recession is what brought the whole thing tumbling down as people are finally unwilling to pay these markups and are voting with their feet by buying elsewhere. There's rough times ahead for all retail outlets, unless they can become more competitive by sourcing more cheaply (ie from distibutors who aren't marking up 30% or more) and bringing down the 'rock bottom' price. And some are definitely going to go under. This of course includes the LBS who are probably stuck with shopfuls of bikes and accessories that they paid a lot of money for and are unable to shift at break even prices, let alone profit, compared to the UK and Northern retailers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,386 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    ROK ON wrote: »
    I buy from both, but prefer to use the LBS. I just think that in these times it is important to try and keep as much money as is possible within the economy.
    But there comes a point where they might have to close as they are just not competitive. If I grew pineapples indoors under lights it would cost a fortune, I might be only making the same profit as tesco, I am not ripping you off, but I would quickly have to just accept it and change business.
    penexpers wrote: »
    In all fairness, fixing brake pads is something you should be able to to do yourself. Not like it needs any special tools.
    THis being a cycling forum people are probably handy at that, many are not. If you went to the computer forum people would say installing a new HD or RAM is a DIY job too, many would not be comfortable doing it. So similarly small PC shops survive and can charge over the odds. While people in the know buy online.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    I actually don't think a lot of these guys are coining it from charging significantly higher prices. With a lot of them, I think their prices are simply making up for the losses generated by shoddy business practices, whether it be clueless staff, poor wrenching, crap stock control and poor product choices.

    For example, I've gone into bike shops before and they've had turbo trainer tyres, cyclo-cross tyres, ultra light weight tubulars, but no commoner garden 23c clincher tyres from the likes of Michelin, Continental or Vittoria. That makes no sense at all.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,038 ✭✭✭penexpers


    rubadub wrote: »
    THis being a cycling forum people are probably handy at that, many are not. If you went to the computer forum people would say installing a new HD or RAM is a DIY job too, many would not be comfortable doing it. So similarly small PC shops survive and can charge over the odds. While people in the know buy online.

    Sorry but if you don't know how to adjust your brakes or fit new brake pads then you probably shouldn't be cycling.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    i'm not talking about priority treatment, and i'm not talking about doing it myself. it may be easy but i've never done it and i don't want to do it.

    whats the problem with bringing it to a store, saying please check the brakes and put new pads on, i'll be back in an hour/2hours/later that afternoon/sunday afternoon.

    if it only takes five minutes, you need no special tools for it and an idiot like me is willing and able to pay for it, whats the issue?

    How much are you going to pay though? Enough to warrant priority treatment?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    Tayto2000 wrote: »
    Price differences North/South have been in the news a lot lately. According to a study done last year, higher overheads here should only account for a 5-6% price difference. I try and buy LBS as much as possible, but when the difference is anything up to 60%, well...

    I think the reason for the high prices is about ten years of companies being able to make supernormal profits in Ireland. Since we were all caught up with the novelty of having a lot of cash, the fact that we were paying well over the odds for absolutely everything was basically ignored to the extent that it was possible for car manufacturers (for example) to have a special price list for Ireland or companies like M&S to add a 20-30% markup.

    The recession is what brought the whole thing tumbling down as people are finally unwilling to pay these markups and are voting with their feet by buying elsewhere. There's rough times ahead for all retail outlets, unless they can become more competitive by sourcing more cheaply (ie from distibutors who aren't marking up 30% or more) and bringing down the 'rock bottom' price. And some are definitely going to go under. This of course includes the LBS who are probably stuck with shopfuls of bikes and accessories that they paid a lot of money for and are unable to shift at break even prices, let alone profit, compared to the UK and Northern retailers.


    You're tarring all LBSs with the same brush - some are actually cheaper than wiggle et all for some things.


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