Opinons on women in MMA

angeldance

Hi all,

Just thought I'd get your opinons on wether you think MMA is suitable for women. What's making me ask that I've been doing kickboxing for years now and fight competively, but I started MMA last week and I loved it. Theres lots to learn and takes alot of skill, however at the weekend I was amazed at the amount of people saying 'you can't do mma your a girl what about your face' haha. Now I fight light and full contact so I'm wondering why so many people are shocked that a girl would want to do mma. Just wondering have any of you come across this?

Pride Fighter

Go for it, women in MMA is a good thing. In the states Gina Carano is on the gladiators show over there. She is also an MMA fighter and is very popular. In Ireland there is a fighter called Aisling Daly who is one of the best in the world at he weight class.
Some outsiders who know nothing will be disgusted at the thought of women fighting, screw them. Inside the sport people will understand and be friendly I would think.

rovert

Carano is the most underutilised and under paid (disregarding sponserships) MMA STAR in the sport in my opinion.

Personally I’ve mixed feelings yes there is some really skilled female fighters and there is a market for it but on the other hand I find pictures such as those of Kim Couture's face after her loss as particularly gruesome and find myself overly concerned about the fighters long term health. Don’t know if this makes me sexist or not.

mirwillbeback

Personally, I don't like it at all. No more than I like to see women boxing. Just my opinion, though I expect to be disagreed with en masse.

Dragan

Personally i am a fan of it. I don't think the overt worrying about women getting hurt is at all justified. I have known women who were tougher than most blokes and would laugh off shots that would rattle me.

If you are an athlete, and a combat athlete especially, then you need to appreciate that injury comes with the sport.

angeldance

Just googled Aisling Daly, she seems like a great fighter, and my luck being what it is around the same weight as me haha. Getting hit doesn't bother me, in kickboxing I train with men all the time (no other girls) and tbh feel I learn more from them and also have learnt to take a hit better. The one fear I do have is cauliflower ears (I know that prob sounds really silly). I understand that as with all contact sports it does have an element of risk (ended up in hospital a few years ago getting a ct scan cause I had post concussion) but that could happen to anyone be it male or female.

I was just really surprised that out of everyone that knew I went not one said 'class did you enjoy it' all responses were along the lines of 'dear god, what about your face, what if you get hurt thats no sport for women haha

Tim_Murphy

The one fear I do have is cauliflower ears (I know that prob sounds really silly).

Well chicks dig them, but that's probably not too much consolation to you. :pac:

The only issue I have with female MMA is that the few times I’ve seen them fight on relatively high level MMA shows is that the standard wasn’t on a par with the rest of the show. Male fights of the same standard probably wouldn’t have been on the show. That said, it’s great to see them get their chance, it’s not easy for them as there isn’t a huge amount of them about.

Tyler MacDurden

angeldance wrote: »

Just googled Aisling Daly, she seems like a great fighter, and my luck being what it is around the same weight as me haha. Getting hit doesn't bother me, in kickboxing I train with men all the time (no other girls) and tbh feel I learn more from them and also have learnt to take a hit better. The one fear I do have is cauliflower ears (I know that prob sounds really silly). I understand that as with all contact sports it does have an element of risk (ended up in hospital a few years ago getting a ct scan cause I had post concussion) but that could happen to anyone be it male or female.

I was just really surprised that out of everyone that knew I went not one said 'class did you enjoy it' all responses were along the lines of 'dear god, what about your face, what if you get hurt thats no sport for women haha

You should head along to the next domestic show, Ais Daly is usually fighting! Seeing women in a live, competitive fight might should be instructive for ya.

Anyhow, well done, you won't find many of the nay-sayers stepping up to take a punch.

Curlypinkie

Go OP!
I only started MMA myself and absolutely loving it.
I do get positive reactions from guys but girls tend to go for the :eek: look.

I wonder what difference there is in a man getting his face and/or bruised/hurt and a woman getting her face bruised/hurt?
Is a woman's face special in a way that it would heal differently to a man?

IMHO women generally have a better ability to take more pain and for longer, hence would technically make better fighters!
But I'm biased

wolfpawnat

mirwillbeback wrote: »

Personally, I don't like it at all. No more than I like to see women boxing. Just my opinion, though I expect to be disagreed with en masse.

I do not agree with your opinion but like the rest of us you are entitled to it. I love boxing, both as a spectator and as my bfs sparring partner. I would fear coming across Katie Taylor and Laila Ali in a dark alley, Katie was in UCD boxing club and nearly killed every man that tried to fight her! Best pound for pound amateur female boxer in the world! And she is Irish.

I would love to do MMA, sadly wont be able to do it til I go back to college next year.

ch252

Why not? It seems to be women competing in mma that people have a problem with and I guess it's a bit more socially accepatble to watch two men batter each other but when its women people tend to have an automatic reaction that it's wrong and barbaric, but those in the sport realise what it's like being in there and generally have trained with women before so i guess we're in a very slightly more informed position than the casual spectator. Lots of women train mma because it's a great way of getting fit, some to compete and either way its equally acceptable in mma circles from what I've seen. In the kickboxing gym I go to a third, if not half the class is female.

Tyler MacDurden

With impeccable timing, I saw this story in this month's Fighters Only...

http://www.cagewarriors.com/article.182.htm

Rosi Sexton & Cesar Gracie team up to find the ultimate MMA womens contender
Cage Warriors own womens Champion, Rosi Sexton has been selected to coach a team of 8 women all competing to win a new TV show for womens MMA.

The show will feature eight women who will train and fight it out to become the #1 Womens MMA Fighter. Filming will take place over a number of weeks in a 5 Star Exotic Resort and is expected to start in January 2009.

Alongside Rosi her co-coach will be the legendary Brazillian Jiu Jitsu coach, Cesar Gracie. The show will be hosted by super model Joanna Krupa, voted ‘sexiest woman in the world' and who has featured on over 100 magazine covers. The fight correspondent is ring girl beauty, Marika Taylor.

After worldwide auditions, eight women will take their make up off and put their gloves on for the chance of a grand prize to become the #1 Womens MMA Champion and to make a name for themselves among the toughest women in the world. The eight women will be plucked from their secure environments, put on a plane and arrive in an exotic location where they will begin their training far from their normal lives.

Their coaches are the best in the world and know what it takes to compete at top levels and will demand perfection. Workouts and training sessions will be gruelling and anyone failing to live up to the exacting standards will be sent packing.

Who will follow directions and who will skip practice to play? Who will suffer injuries, face relationship issues or just plain give up? These women will have the cameras on them at all times for the audience to see and hear their confessions and confrontations, their past experiences and their future dreams as they share with their roommates and coaches. We'll learn more about the life they left behind including their boyfriend, girlfriend or family and what these loved ones think about their choice to fight and what winning or losing this competition means to them.

The programme is produced by Lyle Howry Productions, Hollywood, CA and will be available for general release through its distribution partners. The company has a nine year record in filming and production of Fighting Programmes for TV.

The search for UK contestants has already begun so if you think you have what it takes to make it to the top in womens MMA, CLICK HERE for how to apply.

rovert

Dragan wrote: »

If you are an athlete, and a combat athlete especially, then you need to appreciate that injury comes with the sport.

I agree and looking at the States the major Athletic Commissions have generally fighter's best interests male or female.

Curlypinkie wrote: »

I wonder what difference there is in a man getting his face and/or bruised/hurt and a woman getting her face bruised/hurt?
Is a woman's face special in a way that it would heal differently to a man?

Well Women are more likely to suffer concussions and take longer to recover from them.

Curlypinkie wrote: »

IMHO women generally have a better ability to take more pain and for longer, hence would technically make better fighters!
But I'm biased

I’d have no problem with someone saying female fighters fight harder than most males.

Focusing on the near term:

Is there a promotable UFC level sport after the Corano/Cyborg fight or will it just be the Corano division?

Nothingcompares

rovert wrote: »

Well Women are more likely to suffer concussions and take longer to recover from them.

source?

absolutely no reason why women can't be involved in MMA at every level.

rovert

Nothingcompares wrote: »

source?

Do you have evidence to the contray?

Nothingcompares wrote: »

absolutely no reason why women can't be involved in MMA at every level.

Financial viability? Again talking about the near term there is a concern that while Carano's fights did amazing ratings on the Elite XC shows last year but attracting viewers on free TV and attracting people to buy a show is two separate things. Also again begs the question past Cyborg isn’t the possible UFC women’s division just the Carano division?

ginoginelli

Women are entitled to do mma as much as men, but personally i usually dont enjoy their matches too much..Gina's fights being the exception.. im sure when the sport expands and the talent pool increases we'll start seeing better fights though..As far as training and competing goes, if you enjoy it, go for it!

Jason Mc

I see no reason why a woman should not do MMA

dasmoose

rovert wrote: »

Do you have evidence to the contray?

Celestial teapot much?

cowzerp

At the moment im training a few girls and they love it and apply them selves well, they dont have any pre conceived ideas like some lads do so they learn quick.

if they want to do it they should be allowed to do it.
with aish doing so well in mma and katie doing so well in boxing then womens combat sports will be on the up and its all good..

rovert

dasmoose wrote: »

Celestial teapot much?

Not really I’m just asking why does this need a source as it is hardly the most revelatory statement in the world is it? I never read anything contradicting that Women are more likely to suffer concussions and take longer to recover from them. But the other poster could be a doctor for all I know. I’ve read about concussions a lot but I’m still a layman.

I'm all for women competing in MMA, but on a personal level, I do feel less comfortable watching a woman getting punched, kicked, etc.

Roper

rovert wrote: »

Do you have evidence to the contray?

You made the assertion, the burden of proof is on you.

Clive

I like good MMA matches. The gender of the participants doesn't come into it for me. Whether people are male or female only matters at the afterparty.

However on the point of Gina Carano, I think she is one of the worst things that could have happened to female MMA. Much like the early UFC's - good for ratings and publicity, but ultimately bad for the sport.

rovert

Clive wrote: »

However on the point of Gina Carano, I think she is one of the worst things that could have happened to female MMA. Much like the early UFC's - good for ratings and publicity, but ultimately bad for the sport.

I can see somewhat where you are coming from but it isnt a great analogy. But Carano has more and wider mainstream appeal than say Tank Abbot. The number of female viewers during Gina's last fight on CBS skyrocketed in comparsion to all other (male) fights. Many, many women see her as a role model or a celebrity figure of interest coming off her stint on Gladiators.

ginoginelli

Clive wrote: »

I like good MMA matches. The gender of the participants doesn't come into it for me. Whether people are male or female only matters at the afterparty.

However on the point of Gina Carano, I think she is one of the worst things that could have happened to female MMA. Much like the early UFC's - good for ratings and publicity, but ultimately bad for the sport.

how is she bad for female mma?? She's a star and could be a superstar..Hers striking a joy to watch and she not bad looking either!

Clive

She is bad for female MMA because her status comes not from her talents as an athlete, her record or her fights, it comes simply because she's a good looking woman. It's insults all female fighters, and relegates women in MMA to "foxy boxing".

She was set up to be the media darling, "the face of women's MMA", she had a weight class created just for her, opponents hand-picked, is allowed to consistenly and flagrantly break the rules (regarding making weight). All of this simply because of her looks.

It sends the message to up and coming female fighters that to get recognition, big paydays and hype, you don't have to graft and put in the hard slog that the other female fighters have, you don't have to be the best - just be okay and get a set of implants.

What if Tom Egan didn't get a UFC shot and instead it went to some marketable bodybuilder who was okay skillwise bit would be fed easy opponents to make him a "face"? Then to have that "face" consistently not even attempt to make weight - in a category set up just for them? For shame I would say.

Nothingcompares

Female concussions? I really can't let this slide. Like is it common knowledge?

Are you saying if you took at 100kg male and a 60kg female and hit them with a baseball bat the female is more likely to suffer a concussion?

Or are you trying to say that there are more concussions in female amateur boxing then male? And this is due to anatomical reasons?

Are there generally more concussions in the lighter weights in pro-boxing or the heavier? Just wondering. The only way I see women getting more concussions is that they get beaten up by bigger men and generelly have less musculature and weight. Like as far as I know, female and male skulls are almost indistinguishable.

This review says more concussions for males.
While this review says a greater proportion of female soccer players have concussions.

here's the relevant bit.

Gender Differences

The National Athletic Trainers’ Association study
was the first major research effort delineating at-risk
concussion differences between male and female ath-
letes (Powell & Barber-Foss, 1999). In this study, fe-
male athletes were consistently found to be at higher
risk for sustaining concussions than male athletes
participating in the same high school sport: 1.14 con-
cussions (per 100 player-seasons) in girls soccer ver-
sus .92 in boys soccer, 1.04 in girls basketball versus
.75 in boys basketball, and .46 in girls softball versus
.23 in boys baseball. These gender disparities repre-
sent approximate female-to-male concussion ratios of
5:4 for soccer, 4:3 for basketball, and 2:1 for softball
and baseball. Similarly, Dick (1999) presented data
from the National Collegiate Athletic Association
(NCAA) Injury Surveillance System in which female
athletes were at nearly twice the risk for concussion
than male athletes playing soccer (.578 vs. .348 in-
juries per 1,000 AE) and lacrosse (.618 vs. .334 per
1,000 AE).
These trends do not appear to carry over to all sports
or to athletes of all age ranges. Concussion rates in col-
lege soccer players (0.31 per 1,000 AE for male ath-
letes and 0.33 per 1,000 AE for female athletes; Green
& Jordan, 1998) and basketball players (36.8% of
males, 31.3% of females; Echemendia, 1997) were
found to be nearly identical for both genders. Barnes et
al. (1998), however, observed that 78% of head in-
juries incurred by female athletes in Olympic soccer
matches were the result of a collision with another
player, as compared to 65% of head injuries for male
athletes. Differences in brain chemistry and other as
yet under-investigated neuroanatomical differences
may account for this disparity; nevertheless, it is not
yet clear why female athletes are at higher risk for sus-
taining concussions than male athletes.
Contrary to these findings, Boden et al. (1998) pos-
tulate that participants in boys soccer tend to represent
a higher incidence of head injuries than girls soccer,

perhaps due to boys’ greater willingness to engage in
risk-taking behaviors. This trend toward increased
risk-taking may explain why 89% of male versus 43%
of female Olympic soccer players reported a prior his-
tory of concussion (Barnes et al. 1998).
Even if female athletes are sustaining concussions at
the same rate as male athletes, there is a lack of data, re-
search, and focus on female concussions. Although
many research efforts focus on NCAA Division I foot-
ball, a uniquely male sport, the overwhelming majority
of studies representing sports such as soccer, rugby, bas-
ketball, and lacrosse are based primarily on male partic-
ipants. An ideal manner by which to address this need
can be met by neuropsychological research, which
offers the unique opportunity to investigate the poten-
tially different neuroanatomical and neurochemical
elements that contribute to the distinct rates of sports-
related concussions sustained by female athletes versus
male athletes. Neuropsychological investigation into the
possible disparities between female performance and
male performance on neurocognitive tests can be used
not only to detect impairment following concussion but
also provide insight into the potentially higher risk for
concussion in females (see also Covassin, Swanik, &
Sachs, this issue).

There's obviously a big step going from girls running into each other playing soccer causing concussions and female mma fighters having a greater likelihood of concussion but it's interesting none the less. Sorry for going way off topic here.

rovert

Nothingcompares wrote: »

Female concussions? I really can't let this slide. Like is it common knowledge?.

More common sense than common knowledge as women are the weaker sex. I will grant you that there is a higher and growing awareness in American than here about concussions in sports.

Nothingcompares wrote: »

Are you saying if you took at 100kg male and a 60kg female and hit them with a baseball bat the female is more likely to suffer a concussion?

Or are you trying to say that there are more concussions in female amateur boxing then male? And this is due to anatomical reasons?

Are these questions mutually exclusive? I don’t really get the distinction between them. I would strongly assume that there are more male amateur boxers than female. I can’t recall a study on the differences in male and female concussions in boxing either.

Due to the fact that women have less muscular necks and torsos therefore they can’t absorb blows to the extent men can. It is the violent snapping of the neck from blows which can cause a concussion.

Nothingcompares wrote: »

Are there generally more concussions in the lighter weights in pro-boxing or the heavier? Just wondering.

I honestly don’t know definably.

Nothingcompares wrote: »

The only way I see women getting more concussions is that they get beaten up by bigger men and generelly have less musculature and weight.

This assumption implies is that there is only two types of blows those from a man and those from woman. Also that every man and woman having the ability to deliver the same amount of force respectively.

Nothingcompares wrote: »

Like as far as I know, female and male skulls are almost indistinguishable.

Again I’m a layman not a doctor. But the thickness of the skull to my memory is not a major factor in concussions.

Nothingcompares wrote: »

This review says more concussions for males.

Where? All I can see is the Objective and not the full report.

Nothingcompares wrote: »

While this review says a greater proportion of female soccer players have concussions.

here's the relevant bit.

Nothingcompares wrote: »

There's obviously a big step going from girls running into each other playing soccer causing concussions and female mma fighters having a greater likelihood of concussion but it's interesting none the less. Sorry for going way off topic here.

The medical profession knows little about the full extent of brain injuries relatively speaking and to my knowledge there hasn’t been a study on female concussions in MMA so I’m going what we have to go on.

Roper

rovert wrote: »

More common sense than common knowledge as women are the weaker sex. I will grant you that there is a higher and growing awareness in American than here about concussions in sports.

Weaker does not imply "more susceptable to brain injury".

Due to the fact that women have less muscular necks and torsos therefore they can’t absorb blows to the extent men can. It is the violent snapping of the neck from blows which can cause a concussion.

That's wrong.

I honestly don’t know definably.

We know.

This assumption implies is that there is only two types of blows those from a man and those from woman. Also that every man and woman having the ability to deliver the same amount of force respectively.

If we're talking about a sport where women compete against women in the same weight classes then yes, it is important.

Again I’m a layman not a doctor. But the thickness of the skull to my memory is not a major factor in concussions.

You're wrong.

The medical profession knows little about the full extent of brain injuries relatively speaking and to my knowledge there hasn’t been a study on female concussions in MMA so I’m going what we have to go on.

and what you have to go on is absolutely nothing. You literally haven't provided one piece of evidence to back up your original assertion.

To sum up-
Women are never going to be as involved in combat sports as men. Partly because it doesn't appeal to them as much, but also because whenever a woman decides she might like to have a go at MMA, she'll research and come up against ignorance like this.

rovert

Roper wrote: »

You literally haven't provided one piece of evidence to back up your original assertion.

Neither have you Roper in fairness. Id rather you post more than two word answers as well.

I have read books about particular Head Games by Christopher Nowinski, a number of studies from the Sports Legacy Institute along with columns and articles about the subject relating to MMA & Pro Wrestling.

Roper wrote: »

Women are never going to be as involved in combat sports as men. Partly because it doesn't appeal to them as much, but also because whenever a woman decides she might like to have a go at MMA, she'll research and come up against ignorance like this.

Sorry you seem to be the ignorant one here especially when it comes to some of things you say Im wrong about.

Roper

I'll have to shout now because you don't seem to get it:

WHEN YOU MAKE AN ASSERTION, THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU TO PROVE IT, NOT ANYONE ELSE TO PROVIDE EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY.

rovert

Roper wrote: »

I'll have to shout now because you don't seem to get it:

WHEN YOU MAKE AN ASSERTION, THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU TO PROVE IT, NOT ANYONE ELSE TO PROVIDE EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY.

Like you saying that Im wrong point blank about this?

Due to the fact that women have less muscular necks and torsos therefore they can’t absorb blows to the extent men can. It is the violent snapping of the neck from blows which can cause a concussion.

I dont want this to turn into a flame war but please tell how this wrong exactly?

Sm0ke

this argument is quite fun XD

as far as the original question goes i dont think there shud be wimmins mma, unless their like in their underwear and fighting with pillows.... Also who bes cooking the dinner when u is fighting

/BS
lol sorry I had to!!!

really tough ? there is absolutly no reason women should not be able to Train and fight in MMA and its really cool to hear from female fighters or fans of the sport aswell.

get them ground moves down and with the kickboxin u can go batter Madam couture lol

Dragan

rovert wrote: »

I dont want this to turn into a flame war but please tell how this wrong exactly?

Because it is not taking into account the equative force of the delivered blow. A woman would lack the bodyweight and musculature ( at a genetic level ) to produce the same force in a blow as a man would ( taking this same generic argument that is offered in your quote....as such, the would not be receiving the same blows as men....so that does not come into it.

Any research i have read over the last couple of days tells me that concussion as an injury is relatively poorly understood, your likelihood of concussion is very much an individual thing and that the main difference between women and men is that men will get better visual markers in testing recovery whilst women will get better audio markers.

Thats about it from what i can see.

Edit : As an aside, Rovert and Roper, get a bit more polite with things please of i'll ban you both. Cheers.

Curlypinkie

Clive wrote: »

She is bad for female MMA because her status comes not from her talents as an athlete, her record or her fights, it comes simply because she's a good looking woman. It's insults all female fighters, and relegates women in MMA to "foxy boxing".

She was set up to be the media darling, "the face of women's MMA", she had a weight class created just for her, opponents hand-picked, is allowed to consistenly and flagrantly break the rules (regarding making weight). All of this simply because of her looks.

It sends the message to up and coming female fighters that to get recognition, big paydays and hype, you don't have to graft and put in the hard slog that the other female fighters have, you don't have to be the best - just be okay and get a set of implants.

What if Tom Egan didn't get a UFC shot and instead it went to some marketable bodybuilder who was okay skillwise bit would be fed easy opponents to make him a "face"? Then to have that "face" consistently not even attempt to make weight - in a category set up just for them? For shame I would say.

Well I agree that there is a risk of foxy boxing as you call it (lol) in this case but this is how it usually works in general and everywhere in sports. Female athletes get better media exposure and opportunities when beeing good looking. Just look at Kournikova. Rubbish tennis player, I don't know anything about tennis and can still name drop her.:rolleyes:

Dragan

Curlypinkie wrote: »

Well I agree that there is a risk of foxy boxing as you call it (lol) in this case but this is how it usually works in general and everywhere in sports. Female athletes get better media exposure and opportunities when beeing good looking. Just look at Kournikova. Rubbish tennis player, I don't know anything about tennis and can still name drop her.:rolleyes:

Also look at the fact that the two reason Royce was the choosen Gracie to carry the flag of BJJ into the UFC was because he was

a) not even the best BJJ player in the family
b) A good looking chap before the beatings took their toll.

I read that in an interview with Royce and Rickson, fwiw.

rovert

Dragan wrote: »

Because it is not taking into account the equative force of the delivered blow. A woman would lack the bodyweight and musculature ( at a genetic level ) to produce the same force in a blow as a man would ( taking this same generic argument that is offered in your quote....as such, the would not be receiving the same blows as men....so that does not come into it.

How proportional is the difference between female and males ability to take a blow and the force they can give one?

It does also it looks like Roper and yourself are disputing that the violent snapping of the neck from blows is what can cause a concussion. According to Roper he said this was wrong.

Dragan wrote: »

Any research i have read over the last couple of days tells me that concussion as an injury is relatively poorly understood

I said more less the same earlier in thread, underfunded too.

Dragan wrote: »

your likelihood of concussion is very much an individual thing and that the main difference between women and men is that men will get better visual markers in testing recovery whilst women will get better audio markers.

It is a complex subject absolutely in numerous ways. Going by what I’ve read the instances of concussions in sports seem to be higher and effects of which seem to be more prolonged for them. I get the impression that some others seem to think that I’m against women fighting in MMA I said nothing of the sort. I’m merely said I find myself concerned with the long term effects it may have on female fighters and resent being called ignorant for being so.

Dragan

rovert wrote: »

It does also it looks like Roper and yourself are disputing that the violent snapping of the neck from blows is what can cause a concussion. According to Roper he said this was wrong.

Well, personally i have had 3 to 4 major concussions in my life, none of them were caused by a snapping motion, rather simply by a blunt impact to my head. ( definitely know snapping motion in one as my head was on the ground at the time ).

So, anecdotal, i completely agree with Roper.

With regard to your first question....there is no answer there. Line up 100 athletes of the same sex and each and everyone one of them will have vast differential between how much force they may be able to deliver, versus receive.

rovert

Dragan wrote: »

Also look at the fact that the two reason Royce was the choosen Gracie to carry the flag of BJJ into the UFC was because he was

a) not even the best BJJ player in the family
b) A good looking chap before the beatings took their toll.

I read that in an interview with Royce and Rickson, fwiw.

Sorry can I add a c) here Dragan :

c) he was also smaller and the Gracies wanted to showcase how their brand of Jiu-Jitsu could help a relatively diminutive fighter could easily subdue a much bigger adversary. In the big picture you are right the UFC began as pretty much an infomerical for Gracies Jiu-Jitsu and they needed a poster boy.

rovert

Dragan wrote: »

Well, personally i have had 3 to 4 major concussions in my life, none of them were caused by a snapping motion, rather simply by a blunt impact to my head. ( definitely know snapping motion in one as my head was on the ground at the time ).

So, anecdotal, i completely agree with Roper.

It is anecdotal and Im not your neurologist so I cant comment on your situation. But the fact that youve said that you have had 3 to 4 major concussions is quite alarming to me. As anything above 3 "minor" concussions
is considered very serious.

Dragan wrote: »

With regard to your first question....there is no answer there. Line up 100 athletes of the same sex and each and everyone one of them will have vast differential between how much force they may be able to deliver, versus receive.

But a number of studies have taken samples from varying numbers of females and males. The results of which seem to be that concussions are more likely and dangerous for women. Again it is very complex subject and is something we know relatively little about. Hence my concern.

Dragan

rovert wrote: »

It is anecdotal and Im not your neurologist so I cant comment on your situation. But the fact that youve said that you have had 3 to 4 major concussions is quite alarming to me. As anything above 3 "minor" concussions
is considered very serious.

Oh don't worry, my neurologist has told me exactly the same thing. There is a reason why i no longer compete in the sports that i used to afterall.

Or get in fights for that matter.

Furious-Dave

rovert wrote: »

It does also it looks like Roper and yourself are disputing that the violent snapping of the neck from blows is what can cause a concussion. According to Roper he said this was wrong.

You know what? I think I'll join them in their dispute. In the 20 mins or so since I was bothered to read this thread I've already been able to find info to prove you are wrong. You are correct in saying that a snapping motion can cause a concussion, but it is the snapping of the head not the neck e.g. a powerful hook causing the head to spin. Ultimately, the cause of concussion is rapid acceleration of the head followed by a sudden stop. The brain continues to move after the skull has stopped and this is when damage is done.

For my source - http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=13166

In response to comments made after this post the rate of occurrence of concussion in men is about twice that of women, despite the possibility that women may be at higher risk of suffering concussion.

Source - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concussion under Epidemiology paragraph.

cowzerp

Common sense should tell you that if 2 men fighting at 70 kg and 2 women where fighting at the same weight the men would be hitting harder and therefore more likely to get concussed, its only happened to me once and it was by blunt force trauma, the head did not snap back at all!

although i do agree that the whip of the neck could cause concussion as the brain can get whipped about more, the less power delivered by women should even out the less power in there neck mucsles.

in my opinion there should not be any real difference in the rates of concussion and if there is its probably more likely that the more powerful men will get concussed, the brain is not more powerful after all and they will certainly be getting hit harder.

rovert

cowzerp wrote: »

Common sense should tell you that if 2 men fighting at 70 kg and 2 women where fighting at the same weight the men would be hitting harder and therefore more likely to get concussed, its only happened to me once and it was by blunt force trauma, the head did not snap back at all!.

Youve neglected a person/sexes ability to absorb a punch in this. Im not sure if there is a 1:1 relationship between the sexes on how they deliver and absorb blows respectfully.

cowzerp wrote: »

although i do agree that the whip of the neck could cause concussion as the brain can get whipped about more, the less power delivered by women should even out the less power in there neck mucsles.

in my opinion there should not be any real difference in the rates of concussion and if there is its probably more likely that the more powerful men will get concussed, the brain is not more powerful after all and they will certainly be getting hit harder.

Not to sound precious you cant really give an opinon or personally agree with something like this unless your qualified in the field or at least studied it. You may have but you havent made it clear. Personally Im just relaying my understanding from what Ive read in the past.

Most descriptions of a concussions are along these lines:

What is concussion?

The brain is encased in a hard structure called the skull, the function of which is to provide protection for the delicate structure of the brain underneath. If the skull is subjected to a sudden fall or blow, no apparent damage may be caused to the skull itself. However, the most worrying aspect is what happens underneath. What may have happened as a direct result of that fall or blow is that the brain may have been jolted or banged against the inside of the skull. This type of injury is what we call concussion. Headache and difficulty with concentration are the commonest symptoms of the condition.

http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?con=458

Furious-Dave

Just a comment on the original topic of the thread. I am all for women in MMA and all combat sports. I think if women want to do it then no one should discourage them.

rovert

Furious-Dave wrote: »

Just a comment on the original topic of the thread. I am all for women in MMA and all combat sports. I think if women want to do it then no one should discourage them.

The original topic is MMA suitable for women/Opinions on women in MMA isnt it?

ginoginelli

Clive wrote: »

She is bad for female MMA because her status comes not from her talents as an athlete, her record or her fights, it comes simply because she's a good looking woman. It's insults all female fighters, and relegates women in MMA to "foxy boxing".

She was set up to be the media darling, "the face of women's MMA", she had a weight class created just for her, opponents hand-picked, is allowed to consistenly and flagrantly break the rules (regarding making weight). All of this simply because of her looks.

It sends the message to up and coming female fighters that to get recognition, big paydays and hype, you don't have to graft and put in the hard slog that the other female fighters have, you don't have to be the best - just be okay and get a set of implants.

What if Tom Egan didn't get a UFC shot and instead it went to some marketable bodybuilder who was okay skillwise bit would be fed easy opponents to make him a "face"? Then to have that "face" consistently not even attempt to make weight - in a category set up just for them? For shame I would say.

I think your being a bit unfair on gina. Its not her fault she a good looking chick who can fight..and yes she can fight..

Shes got legit striking skills and an exciting style. In any interviews ive seen of her, she comes across as quite humble and really wants to be taken seriously as a fighter.
She had a few problems making weight in a few fights, but so do loads of fighter. Shes young a fighter dealing with other commitments - lets hope it doesnt happen again, but give her a break.

Photogenic athletes are always cast as the poster boys or girls for any sport. This is just the way of the world. I actually think she can be good for mma and helps dispell the myth among girls,that female mma is inhabited by bodybuilding tomboy types. Gina shows women can keep their feminity and still kick some ass. She makes female mma look cool among the females masses, and this will hopefully encourage more of them to particpate..

Myself and most hardocre fans like watching her fight because she exciting, she brings it..more than alot of male mma fighter do. Lookin forward to her and cyborg, if they ever make this happen, then Ais the bash to fight the winner!

Furious-Dave

rovert wrote: »

The original topic is MMA suitable for women/Opinions on women in MMA isnt it?

If women do Boxing, Kickboxing, Kyokushin, Muay Thai, in which they will take a lot more impact than in MMA, then MMA is in fact more suitable for them. But for a more direct answer, No, I don't think MMA or any striking combat sport is suitable for women. I also don't think it's suitable for a lot of guys either but I'm not going to discourage anyone from doing something they really want to do. If they then decide that it's not suitable for them then they will stop.

cowzerp

rovert wrote: »

Youve neglected a person/sexes ability to absorb a punch in this. Im not sure if there is a 1:1 relationship between the sexes on how they deliver and absorb blows respectfully.

There certainly is a difference in how males and females ability to punch is if there the same weight! males are stronger so in most cases will punch harder assuming the technique is correct. as taking blows, the actual skulls are the same, the impact is less, the only 1 difference is the neck muscles.

rovert wrote: »

Not to sound precious you cant really give an opinon or personally agree with something like this unless your qualified in the field or at least studied it. You may have but you havent made it clear. Personally Im just relaying my understanding from what Ive read in the past.

Im a qualified personal trainer and have obviously studied anatomy, physiology and myology. not that that makes a big difference as common sense is easily applied in this debate, i actually gave supporting views for you aswell but feel you just want to argue even though you dont have a clue and have no evidence to support your claims.

rovert

cowzerp wrote: »

There certainly is a difference in how males and females ability to punch is if there the same weight! males are stronger so in most cases will punch harder assuming the technique is correct..

Where did I say that wasnt the case?

cowzerp wrote: »

as taking blows, the actual skulls are the same, the impact is less, the only 1 difference is the neck muscles.

I posted this earlier in the thread.

cowzerp wrote: »

Im a qualified personal trainer and have obviously studied anatomy, physiology and myology. not that that makes a big difference as common sense is easily applied in this debate, i actually gave supporting views for you aswell but feel you just want to argue even though you dont have a clue and have no evidence to support your claims.

Hold on didnt I say:

Not to sound precious you cant really give an opinon or personally agree with something like this unless your qualified in the field or at least studied it. You may have but you havent made it clear. Personally Im just relaying my understanding from what Ive read in the past.

Did you state that you were a personal trainer before this? no

Im not looking for an arguement here but you seem to be claiming Ive given no evidence to support my claims when that isnt true. So far I dont think you've displayed enough of a level of insight to say I dont have a clue either. Especially when it seems you havent read some my posts properly or at all it seems.

angeldance

Dear god I leave you's alone for a day and yous are arguing

As for women being the weaker sex, I'm insulted come into a ring with me and we'll see who's weaker haha

As for the topic of concussion's I've only ever recieved one, and it was my own stupidity I took too many fights within a short space of time and received too many knocks to the head. :rolleyes: