Star Trek Voyager

jessbeth

I just love this show. I was looking at an episode the other day and was surprised to see that the show is nearly 10 years old.
It's only lately that I've been able to watch a lot of the episodes as it's on tv at the moment.

One thing I'm confused about, in the last double episode Chakotay and Seven are dating. I also remember seeing the Episode where Seven was experimenting with the hologram Chakotay on the Holodeck. I just can't remember any episode in between where Chakotay asked her out for the first time.

Where did I miss that or did it occur at all?

I know it's a bit of a silly question but it's been bugging me.

Thanks

FutureGuy

IIFC, they just got together all of a sudden without any reason. Stupid way to end her arc with the Doctor. Or maybe casual flings are still going strong in the 24th Century!

Sherifu

Have a look here and here, my memory is a little sketchy on voyager but I don't think you missed anything in between.

jessbeth

Thanks folks, so it seems like I didn't miss anything after all.

I was watching the Episode last night when Harry fell in love with the Varro. I think it's one of the fifth season.

The episodes are on Virgin1 at the moment if anybody likes it :-)

nyarlothothep

opposite for me, I'm watching ds9.

IvySlayer

jessbeth wrote: »

Thanks folks, so it seems like I didn't miss anything after all.

I was watching the Episode last night when Harry fell in love with the Varro. I think it's one of the fifth season.

The episodes are on Virgin1 at the moment if anybody likes it :-)

Today's episode was about them discovering they were bio copies :pac:

Sherifu

IvySlayer wrote: »

Today's episode was about them discovering they were bio copies :pac:

We're melting!!!!!!!!!!!!

jessbeth

I know, it was so sad. I nearly cried

nyarlothothep

ah I remember that episode, Course Oblivion, saw it on a friday, august 2006. That was a great episode for a reset. Basically it showed the reality, The Voyager crew would probably have died many times over. I remember thinking it was a total downer but good because of it as it was uncompromising.

Klingon Hamlet

From the very first episode I had a bad feeling it was going to be sterile like the frst two seasons of DS9 (ooooh, I can sense a wave of rage approaching). DS9 started off heavy on the god-like Prophets (and ended similarly, but with decent effect) and lo and behold, Voyager is whisked to Delta Quadrant by a god-like creature. Original.

Main reason it bugged me: every epsiode status quo was generally restored. No scars on ship or person. Very few deaths. Characters generally did not change over 7 years of what should have been hell (speaking of hell, Year of Hell was more realistic in terms of battle damage, personal anguish and permanent effect on crew).

Ron D Moore fell out with Brannon Braga over this, and went off and did a tiny little show called BSG. And boy was he right.

I did like the Doc, though his arc was too Odo/Data/Spock-like. Ooooh, aother non-human attempting to become and transcend humanity. Wow. Original.

Janeway grated because of that voice and because she always seemed ticked off haha. 7 of 9 was just eye candy and a waste of time. Chakotay was legendary at the start and was quickly neutered. Tuvok was Spock mk II, in almost a good way. The less said about Neelix the better. Kes irritated me. B'Elanna was constantly in her TOTM. Paris for some reason reminded me of Chandler Bing, always just slightly failing. Even the little swivelly nacelles...eh, hello, since when did pivoting nacelles affect warp fields??? Why didn't they permanently stand that way? Ugh, this was the next step fown from Lord Berman. Only Enterprise out-bored this show.

Coulda been something special. last episode, wow, another time travel episode, original.

DS9 FTW (and even that had a bumpy ride). BSG FTW

Sherifu

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

Janeway grated because of that voice and because she always seemed ticked off haha.

Could have been worse...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SIZcDWKyw0

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

7 of 9 was just eye candy and a waste of time.

MMMmmmmm eye candy.

Rawr

Ahhh...Voyager....potential and disappointment never went together so well in a Trek show before.

I liked the idea a first, going back out into the great unknown (where the Alpha Quadrant has pretty much covered) on a quest to simply to get back home.

Unfortunately, it didn't really work and I feel it was the beginning of the end for Rick Berman's 'Trek through the Stars'. I always regarded Voyager to be the weakest of the Next Generation spin-offs. There were countless wasted opportunities that could have made this show great. Among those are:

-The Getting Home Concept
Far too often, the fact that they were trying to get home was ignored in favour of going off and doing something along the lines of normal Trek formula. Although the excuse that they were trying to find new technologies is used, it often felt like this core concept was abandoned for large gaps of the series.

-Janeway
Her character was quite OK, but it never really developed all that much throughout the run. Although this had been touched upon once or twice, the strain of responsibility should have changed her in some form during the course of the series. Instead she remains a carbon-copy Starfleet officer. Morally upstanding...but a boring character in the end.

-Seven of Nine
Yet another eye-candy character whose catsuit has more talent than the actress therein. We got a handful of episodes of character development at the beginning and then pretty much nothing for the rest of the run. This could have been a very good continuous arc of character-building, with Seven eventually becoming Anika Hansen over time. Instead we get Spock 3.2 with the catchphrase 'When I was in the Collective.....<Instert line here>'

-The Borg
It goes without saying, the less you know about a nemesis, the better it works. We could have had an entire year of Voyager in Borg-space, with them running from cubes daily and trying to find new ways to save their necks...literally. But no...they skip the Borg space altogether and they become the special guest villain. Even when Janeway and Co. are caught and assimilated, they cheat and have a vaccination for it. So much for the Borg...just take your shots and you'll be ok....:rolleyes:

-The Maquis
Star Trek's IRA! But no...they end up sucking. The whole 2-crew solution gelled far too quickly in my opinion. This should have been another development arc for the whole of Season 1 and 2.

-The Equinox Crew
Where the hell did they go?!! The survivors remained on Voyager and were pretty good characters. It would have been interesting to see these people interact with the Voyager crew. They just disappear and are never used again.

-Neelix
Going from oddball local to odd adult child. I just loved it when Q Jr. sealed his mouth shut.

-B'lanna Torres
Why is it, when they bring in a female Klingon, she's usually half-human? A full-Klingon B'lanna would have worked so much better in my opinion!

-The RESET Button
Oh yes. Voyager's greatest sin. No matter how much damage, no matter how limited the supplies or energy, The Voyager will ALWAYS be OK at the end of an episode. Again, a continuous arc of the ship getting worse (ala Year or Hell) would have worked really well in my opinion!

Anyways, that's how I feel about that.

Rawr

jessbeth wrote: »

One thing I'm confused about, in the last double episode Chakotay and Seven are dating. I also remember seeing the Episode where Seven was experimenting with the hologram Chakotay on the Holodeck. I just can't remember any episode in between where Chakotay asked her out for the first time.

Where did I miss that or did it occur at all?

I know it's a bit of a silly question but it's been bugging me.

Not at all a silly question, but a valid point on how poorly they handled most character relationships on the show. It did very much feel like, one day...nothing and then next, *bang* they're in a relationship. The match didn't seem right either.

Chakotay's actor Robert Beltran has often been quoted on how he disliked the direction and writing for his character and show in general. This may very well of made him a target for this last minute train-wreck of a plot development. (However that is just a guess of mine).

jessbeth

Yeah I did like the last two episodes but I thought they could have left the relationship completely out of it altogether.

User45701

ye well it was there reason for not having seven or chakotoy in the future because really a leader of the maquie cell and an ex borg i dont care what admiral janeway says starfleet will have questions and what those two did when they got back to earth would have been difficult to write about/decide

Having them die resolved that issue and spead up the story in the future at the start (lol) because less time spent at the reunion

_Kaiser_

Sherifu wrote: »

Could have been worse...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SIZcDWKyw0

:eek: All you Janeway haters should count yourselves lucky that Kate Mulgrew eventually got the role!

nyarlothothep

never have I seen such wooden acting! Man the casting was diabolical

Amtmann

Mulgrew is a great actor, but Janeway was just a very bad captain, leadership and wisdom-wise. This could have made for great tension on the series. What about her botched attempt at bringing the Ferengi to book when Voyager found the Barzan wormhole? Utter incompetence. Lots of similar dodgy decisions.

nyarlothothep

I agree, she took insane risks, usually involving the complete destruction of the crew and ship. Great actress, terrible whisky cyclone voice, mentalist character.

jessbeth

I like Janeway, my favourite Captain has to be Picard though. I can't wait to see the new movie though, it's ages since there was a good Star Trek movie.

Amtmann

Great Janeway scene. So menacing:

Johnny Storm

I didn't really like Voyager but in fairness they did have a few good eps. I must also add that IMHO the Seven character was a little bit better than just eye candy (although its true that her outfits were indefensible)

Anyway IMHO the whole way they ended up in the Delta Quadrant was lame. Janeway just rolled over and did nothing to protect her ship and crew. If Kirk, Picard, Sisko or even Reginald Brocolli had been in charge of Voyager they would have been back in sector 001 by the end of the first ep.



AND was there ever a final count of how many shuttles they destroyed? :rolleyes:

Derek Coleman

Janeway was only rivalled by Beverley Crusher in her ability to dumb down the technical dialogue of the show. A fact of Star Trek that Futurama parodied so excellently.

LEELA
Hmm. If we can re-route engine power through the primary weapons and reconfigure them to Melllvar's frequency, that should overload his electro-quantum structure.
BENDER
Like putting too much air in a balloon.
FRY
Of course! It's so simple!

and then a little later.......

LEELA
Its not working! He's drawing straight from our weapons.
FRY
Like a balloon and ... something bad happens.

Classic.

The_Minister

Sherifu wrote: »

Could have been worse...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SIZcDWKyw0

.

That is woeful.

Sherifu

The_Minister wrote: »

That is woeful.

We had a lucky escape. How they picked her first i'll never know.

Rawr

Sherifu wrote: »

We had a lucky escape. How they picked her first i'll never know.

I'm more surprised that the casting had gotten to such an advanced stage before they changed it. Literally everyone else is there! Postproduction appears to be done! I wouldn't be all that surprised if they had actually done most of the episode with her, put the pilot forward for green-lighting (where the network programmers probably went 'WTF?!! If wood could act, you'd end up with this actress'), and thus was rejected until they found a better actress.

I hold little regard for Berman-era casting. Lest not forget that the same people casted Seven of Nine and T'Pol's actresses for their 'credentials' more than any kind of acting ability.

Sherifu

Berman's thoughts: (On the season 1 DVD afair)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq3dGOFfI5Q

Rawr

Sherifu wrote: »

Berman's thoughts: (On the season 1 DVD afair)

Berman has thoughts?!!:eek:

Sweet Jebus, can't the guy ever admit to screwing up? He picked the wrong actress, he made a mistake, fair enough. Instead...'We wanted to go in a new direction...'

(PS, fair play on finding that Sherifu)

Sherifu

Rawr wrote: »

Berman has thoughts?!!:eek:

Sweet Jebus, can't the guy ever admit to screwing up? He picked the wrong actress, he made a mistake, fair enough. Instead...'We wanted to go in a new direction...'

(PS, fair play on finding that Sherifu)

There's also a clip with one of the producers (forget if it was Berman or not) where they blame the other producers and say that Mulgrew was their first choice all along. I'll see if I can digg it out later.

Mal-Adjusted

jessbeth wrote: »

Thanks folks, so it seems like I didn't miss anything after all.

I was watching the Episode last night when Harry fell in love with the Varro. I think it's one of the fifth season.

The episodes are on Virgin1 at the moment if anybody likes it :-)

That guy had the worst luck with women.
The best friends girl...
The hologram...
The 3 hot women who wanted to kill him...
The girl he got addicted to & had to go cold turkey...
The Borg...
The wrong twin...

Phototoxin

Its enjoyable but a lot of episodes have the same skeleton;

something breaks and needs repairing/replacing

some alien gives them stick

the crew ends up in deep crap but its not the reall crew its their slime clones/alternate time line/whatever

and of course holodeck malfunction

That said I'm enjoying it. It's quite a simple type of program where they just want to get home. Some of the characters could do with a bit more development alright. And yes 7 of 9's outfits - she might as well be naked. There's an episode where B'Lana and Tom get married (but not really as they are metal slime clones) and something goes wrong so Seven and B'Lana are going to go into a jeffres tube. We are given an extreme close up of Sevens arse along wiht comments along the lines of 'i don't see monogomus relationships as logical' or whaever. I thought fanservice was only in anime?

Rawr

Phototoxin wrote: »

I thought fanservice was only in anime?

It pretty much is. However I get the feeling that some of the Star Trek staff are anime fans. The frequency of Japanese cast and the anime-esque design of some characters, lead me to believe that they were trying to create more of a sci-fi anime with the franchise.

A fan service character or event usually happens in most if not all of the modern Star Trek series. Dianna Troi appears to be the first attempt at this in TNG, with her first donning the cat-suit. (We sort of get a 'nude' scene when herself and her mother are transported out of their clothes by Ferengi)

I guess Jadzia Dax fills this role in DS9 (together with obligatory 'lesbian' scene),and also Esri Dax being portrayed very like a cutesy anime-girl who's unsure of herself.

Voyager starts off with a stock anime Elf-Girl (Kes) and we then move onto an anime robot-girl (Seven-of-Nine). As mentioned, 7o'9 get's plenty of fan-service in VOY, from asking Kim if he was looking to have sex with her (and then diciding it was a good idea before Kim panics, like many a male anime protagonist), to having her clothes being zapped off her by Q Jr.

Enterprise also gets two anime inserts. This time an anime Elf-Woman (T'Pol), with too much Fan-Service to list here. And low and behold, a girl named 'Mihoshi' no less. Why is that significant? Well...if you know some anime, you'll probably know about Tenchi-Muyo. It was an anime which featured a ditzy space-cop called...Mihoshi. It's a fairly common Japanese name, but I feel that the Star Trek staff simply named the Enterprise character after her, and then started using the short-form. 'Hoshi has her own fan service moment too, with her top flying off when she jumps out of a Jefferies Tube. The scene was neither funny nor interesting, and was little more than fan service.

==========

On reflection of these characters and to a lesser extent, the shows around them. They would have probably worked better as anime. They would be very more visually interesting and would not suffer from the hammy acting of the Trek cast. Seven of Nine in particular, as I feel that Jeri Ryan simply couldn't develop the character beyond her wooden Spock 2.0 performance.

dyl10

Voyager wasn't great in itself, but it's exploration of the old reliables, Borg, Q and Time travel made it worth while.

The Captin Braxton episodes were some of the best star trek had to offer.
I quite liked Fair Haven, but you know, that was for obvious reasons

Mal-Adjusted

Rawr wrote: »

It pretty much is. However I get the feeling that some of the Star Trek staff are anime fans. The frequency of Japanese cast and the anime-esque design of some characters, lead me to believe that they were trying to create more of a sci-fi anime with the franchise.

A fan service character or event usually happens in most if not all of the modern Star Trek series. Dianna Troi appears to be the first attempt at this in TNG, with her first donning the cat-suit. (We sort of get a 'nude' scene when herself and her mother are transported out of their clothes by Ferengi)

I guess Jadzia Dax fills this role in DS9 (together with obligatory 'lesbian' scene),and also Esri Dax being portrayed very like a cutesy anime-girl who's unsure of herself.

Voyager starts off with a stock anime Elf-Girl (Kes) and we then move onto an anime robot-girl (Seven-of-Nine). As mentioned, 7o'9 get's plenty of fan-service in VOY, from asking Kim if he was looking to have sex with her (and then diciding it was a good idea before Kim panics, like many a male anime protagonist), to having her clothes being zapped off her by Q Jr.

Enterprise also gets two anime inserts. This time an anime Elf-Woman (T'Pol), with too much Fan-Service to list here. And low and behold, a girl named 'Mihoshi' no less. Why is that significant? Well...if you know some anime, you'll probably know about Tenchi-Muyo. It was an anime which featured a ditzy space-cop called...Mihoshi. It's a fairly common Japanese name, but I feel that the Star Trek staff simply named the Enterprise character after her, and then started using the short-form. 'Hoshi has her own fan service moment too, with her top flying off when she jumps out of a Jefferies Tube. The scene was neither funny nor interesting, and was little more than fan service.

==========

On reflection of these characters and to a lesser extent, the shows around them. They would have probably worked better as anime. They would be very more visually interesting and would not suffer from the hammy acting of the Trek cast. Seven of Nine in particular, as I feel that Jeri Ryan simply couldn't develop the character beyond her wooden Spock 2.0 performance.

woah...yea, it's fan service, but anime inspired? now you're just looking for stuff that isn't there. reading waaaaay too much into it

Svalbard

I think Voyager and her crew had too comfortable a ride through the Delta Quad for 7 years. In Season 1 they were constantly worried about finding food and energy supplies. In later seasons these seemed to fall into their laps and getting the supplies they needed was no big deal. In fact as they went on they gained Borg tech, the mobile emitter and the Delta Flyer - they were better off tech wise than when they started. They were also just too clean!

I would have preferred a grittier take - the ship gets more damaged and worn every year, systems shut down, the crew get a bit lassez-faire about uniforms etc. things should have got more desperate, not easier. Anytime they ran into trouble there was always a modified deflector array/Seven's nanoprobes/The mobile emitter/some convienient alien technology lying around etc to save the day. It was just too easy!

The show should have progressed more like the Year of Hell episode, in slow motion. the ship gets more damaged, crew members die, ethics are sacrificed in the name of survival (sometimes). That would have been more realistic and more compeling viewing.

Mal-Adjusted

Svalbard wrote: »

I think Voyager and her crew had too comfortable a ride through the Delta Quad for 7 years. In Season 1 they were constantly worried about finding food and energy supplies. In later seasons these seemed to fall into their laps and getting the supplies they needed was no big deal. In fact as they went on they gained Borg tech, the mobile emitter and the Delta Flyer - they were better off tech wise than when they started. They were also just too clean!

I would have preferred a grittier take - the ship gets more damaged and worn every year, systems shut down, the crew get a bit lassez-faire about uniforms etc. things should have got more desperate, not easier. Anytime they ran into trouble there was always a modified deflector array/Seven's nanoprobes/The mobile emitter/some convienient alien technology lying around etc to save the day. It was just too easy!

The show should have progressed more like the Year of Hell episode, in slow motion. the ship gets more damaged, crew members die, ethics are sacrificed in the name of survival (sometimes). That would have been more realistic and more compeling viewing.

+1 I think the idea of no visable damage was that they could recycle old fly-by footage & not have to come up with more (something that should have been simple from season 4 onwards because they switched from models to cgi)
The Year of Hell was suppose to last a whole season long.
they did the ethics thing with the Equinox & season 3 of Enterprise.

nyarlothothep

Svalbard wrote: »

I think Voyager and her crew had too comfortable a ride through the Delta Quad for 7 years. In Season 1 they were constantly worried about finding food and energy supplies. In later seasons these seemed to fall into their laps and getting the supplies they needed was no big deal. In fact as they went on they gained Borg tech, the mobile emitter and the Delta Flyer - they were better off tech wise than when they started. They were also just too clean!

I would have preferred a grittier take - the ship gets more damaged and worn every year, systems shut down, the crew get a bit lassez-faire about uniforms etc. things should have got more desperate, not easier. Anytime they ran into trouble there was always a modified deflector array/Seven's nanoprobes/The mobile emitter/some convienient alien technology lying around etc to save the day. It was just too easy!

The show should have progressed more like the Year of Hell episode, in slow motion. the ship gets more damaged, crew members die, ethics are sacrificed in the name of survival (sometimes). That would have been more realistic and more compeling viewing.

Exactly. In fact one of the things I found dumb was the fact that none of the characters advanced in rank because they had to preserve a status quo on board. A very silly reason, but then thats Janeway :rolleyes:. It's not that I'm against the idea of female captain, I think the female characters in DS9 were way better than Janeway, its just that she seemed to come from the same ilk as the asshole admirals in TNG, who were all north americans strangely enough. Rank should have slowly dissipated, they were fairly educated and the close proximity of living together on a ship should have made things more democratic.

Amtmann

I did not realise how awful Voyager is until I rewatched TNG.

I can't really describe how sorry it was, but this guy can: http://www.youtube.com/user/sfdebris

Pride Fighter

Miles better than DS9 IMO. I say this because if I was to rate the episodes I'd give more 6 and 7 out of 10's to Voyager than DS9 by miles. DS9 was very inconsistent, you would have extremely shit episodes that were really ****, the first 2 seasons were shit but even after when it improved there were still some absolute stinkers of episodes. Voyager was always near the same level, good and only occasionally spectacular. I will say that DS9 has some of the greatest ever episodes in star trek, way more than Voyager. But Voyager is better overall.

Voyager FTW:D

Rawr

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

now you're just looking for stuff that isn't there. reading waaaaay too much into it

...and them some

I gotta stop doing that :pac:

Johnny Storm

Phototoxin wrote: »

We are given an extreme close up of Sevens arse ......?

You're sayin' that like it's a bad thing?!?!? :eek:

Cookie_Monster

Phototoxin wrote: »

and of course holodeck malfunction

how was that technology still in use, constant consdtant weird ****up happening with it accross all the ST series. It should at least come with a health and safety warning on the arch:pac:

Phototoxin wrote: »

metal slime clones

dyl10 wrote: »

The Captin Braxton episodes were some of the best star trek had to offer.

It's a pity this arc wasn't longer. It would have been great. They could also have ended it differently and required them to salvage bits of the ship etc etc. My favourite Voy eps by a country mile.

Svalbard wrote: »

I think Voyager and her crew had too comfortable a ride through the Delta Quad for 7 years. <snip rest>

+1

norrie rugger

Had absolute MASSIVE potential but delivered next to nothing

Svalbard

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Miles better than DS9 IMO. I say this because if I was to rate the episodes I'd give more 6 and 7 out of 10's to Voyager than DS9 by miles. DS9 was very inconsistent, you would have extremely shit episodes that were really ****, the first 2 seasons were shit but even after when it improved there were still some absolute stinkers of episodes. Voyager was always near the same level, good and only occasionally spectacular. I will say that DS9 has some of the greatest ever episodes in star trek, way more than Voyager. But Voyager is better overall.

Voyager FTW:D

No way, DS9 beats VOY hands down! For lots of reasons, but I'll take just one for now...characters.

Chakotay, Tuvok, Kim, Paris, Neelix - Boring and pointless. esp chakotay!!!!!!!!
Janeway - self-righteous and grating
Doctor - annoying at time, overused
Seven - good character, and other (ahem) attributes, but totally overused. herself and Janeway needed to get a room

Worf, Dax, Kira, Gul Dukat, Garak - great characters
Odo, bashir, o'brien, quark - pretty decent
sisko - could take him or leave him. best as a hard ass though

there are plenty of other reasons but my fingers are tired

Pride Fighter

Svalbard wrote: »

No way, DS9 beats VOY hands down! For lots of reasons, but I'll take just one for now...characters.

Chakotay, Tuvok, Kim, Paris, Neelix - Boring and pointless. esp chakotay!!!!!!!!
Janeway - self-righteous and grating
Doctor - annoying at time, overused
Seven - good character, and other (ahem) attributes, but totally overused. herself and Janeway needed to get a room

Worf, Dax, Kira, Gul Dukat, Garak - great characters
Odo, bashir, o'brien, quark - pretty decent
sisko - could take him or leave him. best as a hard ass though

there are plenty of other reasons but my fingers are tired

You completely overlooked my post. DS9 is absolutely shit for the most part. It is mostly crappy Bajor episodes and ****ty space station innuendo. Only when they are on the defiant or a war is on are the episodes in any way entertaining.

zynaps

Pride Fighter wrote: »

You completely overlooked my post. DS9 is absolutely shit for the most part. It is mostly crappy Bajor episodes and ****ty space station innuendo. Only when they are on the defiant or a war is on are the episodes in any way entertaining.

Meh. I very much enjoyed the spyish episodes with Garak and the Doctor, and some of the Section 31 episodes were pretty good. Also, O'Brien had some decent episodes (the virtual prison sentence episodes had some nice touches, as did the undercover one).

And one of my favourite characters is Gul Dukat - helped by his very pleasant voice, but also by his two-faced deluded charisma. Probably my favourite DS9 ep was an earlyish one where some old Cardassian booby-trap program switches the station into a lunatic defense mode where it tries to kill any non-Cardassian personnel, but turns on Garak and the smug Dukat when it decides he's trying to flee or something.

Agreed, it was very hit and miss, but TBH every Star Trek series was hit and miss in some regards (e.g. I personally couldn't stand the Fair Haven episodes of Voyager and Kes and Neelix were an almighty pain in the hole).

Svalbard wrote:

Anytime they ran into trouble there was always a modified deflector array/Seven's nanoprobes/The mobile emitter/some convienient alien technology lying around etc to save the day. It was just too easy!

The show should have progressed more like the Year of Hell episode, in slow motion. the ship gets more damaged, crew members die, ethics are sacrificed in the name of survival (sometimes). That would have been more realistic and more compeling viewing.

Absolutely couldn't agree more! I was a very big fan of Voyager, but after the first season or two a lot of the episodes started to feel too safe and sterile, in a way that many TNG episodes also felt (even though I loved most of them). Ooops, you used your tractor beam (that NEVER works except against vintage unthreatening ships that are only equipped with lasers) and they're sending a "feedback pulse down the beam" (WHAT????) and you can't disengage? No problem, just set up a static warp shell and use the broussard collectors to emit an inverse polaron burst which should dissipate the beam.
Too many contrived pseudo-technobabble dangers that are averted by other pseudo-technobabble. That's one aspect that was minimised with good results in DS9 compared to TNG and Voyager.
Year of Hell was so much more compelling than the norm because everything was a horrific, painful struggle where nobody won - it was one of the few times I felt fear, pity and apprehension for the characters, and those are worthy emotions to evoke.

Rawr wrote:

I guess Jadzia Dax fills this role in DS9 (together with obligatory 'lesbian' scene),and also Esri Dax being portrayed very like a cutesy anime-girl who's unsure of herself.

Let's not forget:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J1WNYt1rU4

Mal-Adjusted

zynaps wrote: »

Absolutely couldn't agree more! I was a very big fan of Voyager, but after the first season or two a lot of the episodes started to feel too safe and sterile, in a way that many TNG episodes also felt (even though I loved most of them). Ooops, you used your tractor beam (that NEVER works except against vintage unthreatening ships that are only equipped with lasers) and they're sending a "feedback pulse down the beam" (WHAT????) and you can't disengage? No problem, just set up a static warp shell and use the broussard collectors to emit an inverse polaron burst which should dissipate the beam.
Too many contrived pseudo-technobabble dangers that are averted by other pseudo-technobabble. That's one aspect that was minimised with good results in DS9 compared to TNG and Voyager.
Year of Hell was so much more compelling than the norm because everything was a horrific, painful struggle where nobody won - it was one of the few times I felt fear, pity and apprehension for the characters, and those are worthy emotions to evoke.

i 100% agree. the first two and a half seasons of Voyager are great, but it just overdoes it with the technobable, just like the new Doctor Who...and it starts to grate.

One of the reasons i love Enterprise is the sheer lack of psuedo-techno-BS. their TB goes as far as saying why thay can't beam someone up from the surface or a saboutour rerouted some sub-system so the engines won't stop.

zynaps

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

One of the reasons i love Enterprise is the sheer lack of psuedo-techno-BS. their TB goes as far as saying why thay can't beam someone up from the surface or a saboutour rerouted some sub-system so the engines won't stop.

Oh yeah, the transporter - another thing that often harms episodes:
"Help, we're outnumbered by Borg and they've adapted to our phasers!"
"Ok, beaming you out then!"
"Thx bye!" *flips the bird at Borg* *beeeeam*

The fact that it's downplayed a bit in Enterprise (and in some other good sci-fi series --> Firefly) makes things a little bit more realistic, and danger a little more dangerous

Kurn

I always hated the Chakotay character - though it was pointless but the actor it seems got lets parts because he was a bit of a p$$$ based on this interview
http://www.truveo.com/Robert-Beltran-Interview/id/4221258958

Mal-Adjusted

johnmryan wrote: »

I always hated the Chakotay character - though it was pointless but the actor it seems got lets parts because he was a bit of a p$$$ based on this interview
http://www.truveo.com/Robert-Beltran-Interview/id/4221258958

Pat Kenny could take lessons from that plank.:rolleyes: I was always annoyed that after the season 6/ season 7 crossing, Janeway, Tuvok and someone else (Torres?) get assimilated, then rescued. all the Borg implants are easily removed, leaving no scars. seven of nine, however, still has hers throughout. howcome? The show has no reprocussions for actions taken.

Kurn

Yea I know - they try to cover themselves by saying the doctor was able to remove most of our implants, but dont the borg often remove arms and eyes...