Reasons the irish language should or shouldnt RIP

Andrew210

I have to do an essay on why the irish language should or shouldnt RIP.Any help

PurpleFistMixer

What do you think?

Fad

Andrew210 wrote: »

I have to do an essay on why the irish language should or shouldnt RIP.Any help

Do your own work :pac:

eVeNtInE

This post has been deleted.

cbreeze

irish is a dead lingo. No new things are being said in it - just english stuff being translated to sound like someone from the country talking it - further west the better IMHO

JordanDC

Sorry if im too late, but some reasons you can include are:
1. Irish is not a language that is recognized outside of Ireland.
2. There are less and less people speaking it now, new products and services such as mobile phones (excluding the Tocco) and websites etc do not support the use of Irish.
3. Also, people can go through 14 years learning Irish in school and still not be able to have a full conversation in Irish, so obviously there is a problem there that can be discussed.

Fad

JordanDC wrote: »

Sorry if im too late, but some reasons you can include are:
1. Irish is not a language that is recognized outside of Ireland.

2. There are less and less people speaking it now, new products and services such as mobile phones (excluding the Tocco) and websites etc do not support the use of Irish.

3. Also, people can go through 14 years learning Irish in school and still not be able to have a full conversation in Irish, so obviously there is a problem there that can be discussed.

Its recognised by the EU as an official language, my eternal point: its out constitutional first language.

Samsung make a phone that has Irish language capabilities, Firefox as Gaeilge.

The education system is a pretty hollow reason, its not great for any subjects really. (And I can have a full convo in Irish, having never attended a Gaelscoil etc :pac:)

PurpleFistMixer

JordanDC wrote: »

2. There are less and less people speaking it now, new products and services such as mobile phones (excluding the Tocco) and websites etc do not support the use of Irish.

Excluding the tocco, and google as gaeilge, and windows as gaeilge, and firefox/thunderbird as gaeilge, and facebook as gaeilge, boards.ie as gaeilge... Hmm. : )

spurious

JordanDC wrote: »

Sorry if im too late, but some reasons you can include are:
1. Irish is not a language that is recognized outside of Ireland.
2. There are less and less people speaking it now, new products and services such as mobile phones (excluding the Tocco) and websites etc do not support the use of Irish.
3. Also, people can go through 14 years learning Irish in school and still not be able to have a full conversation in Irish, so obviously there is a problem there that can be discussed.

You could make a case, however off-topic for 3., but 1. and 2. are not true.

SoupyNorman

spurious wrote: »

You could make a case, however off-topic for 3., but 1. and 2. are not true.

Well for that no.3 point... I think it is the way we are taught the language. When I was doing German I noticed how we were taught the language with everyday use in mind, i.e. asking for directions, conversational grammer e.t.c. All I recall being exposed to for the entirety of secondary school was poems and prose and fantastical, magical stories that made no sense in english.


The teaching method is old and rotten, not the language.

Feelgood

Aside from everything else its part of your history, your heritage and your culture and country and these are things that should never be forgotten. Just like the Easter rising should never be forgotten.

It should never die and as your grow older you will come to respect that, its easy to dish Irish at school because its forced into you but as your grow older you will embrace it.

Id do the essay from these two slants to be honest, arguments for its existence and against it.

JordanDC

Fad wrote: »

Its recognised by the EU as an official language, my eternal point: its out constitutional first language. - But we are currently, right now speaking english, and a vast majority of the irish population do speak englsih

Samsung make a phone that has Irish language capabilitiesWhich is why I said excluding the Tocco, which only has a small market share, we arent seeing any large companies such as Nokia or Apple providing irish support on mobile devices., Firefox as Gaeilge.

The education system is a pretty hollow reason, its not great for any subjects really. (And I can have a full convo in Irish, having never attended a Gaelscoil etc :pac:)

..

PurpleFistMixer

JordanDC - your point was that new websites/products do not support Irish, yes? I gave a LIST of things on the internet that support Irish. Are you going to tell me that Firefox is not an important part of the web browser market?

JordanDC

You are making assumptions now. I am NOT saying that ALL websites/products do not support Irish. I am saying that the MAJORITY of all new websites/products do not come in irish. Lets be realistic, if a company releases a product, there is just as much money spent on translation for each language, so obviously the more people that speak a language will get preference. Also, the majority of people that do speak irish, also speak English too. And, firefox has less than 20% of the market-share of browsers, what about IE? Can you go and get an iPod that has irish menus? Can you buy a Song from iTunes using Irish? Can you get Irish support on the phone if you have an enquiry about your credit card or even support for your computer?

PurpleFistMixer

I'm not making assumptions, I restated your question.
I don't use IE so I can't comment on its Irish support, but you can get Windows in Irish, it seems likely there are people working on IE too.
To be honest, "I can't get support for my phone through Irish" is not, to me, enough of a reason fro the language to be banished to history. Yes, it is plain to see that English is far more widely used than Irish,but just because you personally don't know of services in Irish doesn't mean they don't exist.

freyners

Its actually a pity that irish isn't used more nowdays and we should be proud of native tongue. But i agree that the way irish is taught is wrong and puts a lot of people off it. It should be taught like the way french is taught, if your able to wrte, speak , listen to, and understand the language, your proficent, not because you know poems or storys.:(

Gaeilge-go-deo

Im in 2nd year and I have nearly fluent Irish... I suppose its because im a bit of a swot and want to learn it.. not boastin or anythin...?

oh well

We teach history/geography/science for years too and still once the leaving cert is over many people can't locate countries on a map, can't tell you why the world wars started, or how to take salt out of water. I think we teach all subjects fairly badly. Those who are interested will become fluent, will learn about history/geography, those who aren't, won't.

my daughter fluent in Irish - why - cos she's interested.

Can't locate countries on a map - why - not interested.

j'aime

irish primary schools and secondary schools are the way to go, your almost guaranteed an A in the lc;)

sh1tin-a-brick

Anyone with young children out there, speak to them in Irish the odd time. Seriously, my dad spoke to me in Irish sometimes (really sometimes) when I was small. Doesn't help with written much but it makes listening and understanding way easier. I'm not fluent at speaking but I can understand a lot of what is said or written, just from hearing it as a youngster.

Anyone else doing the JC, Irish isn't dead. It's not impossible either. Learn your notes and watch TG4 the odd time, it'll be grand!

zonEEE

you should have a choice to drop it after the jc, if you like it you will keep it up, if you dont like it your not going to be able to speak anymore of it if you keep it on for another 2 years,

Blackjack

cbreeze wrote: »

irish is a dead lingo. No new things are being said in it - just english stuff being translated to sound like someone from the country talking it - further west the better IMHO

Plenty of new additions to English Grammar here I see.

Oh, and you're wrong, if I am to correctly understand what it is you are trying to say.

Homicidal_jesus

oh well wrote: »

my daughter fluent in Irish - why - cos she's interested.

Can't locate countries on a map - why - not interested.

That about sums it up to be honest

K4t

Fad wrote: »

Its recognised by the EU as an official language, my eternal point: its out constitutional first language. Token gesture. It's not as if anybody actually cares or that it means anything that the EU recognises it.

Samsung make a phone that has Irish language capabilities, Firefox as Gaeilge. I wonder how much the government paid samsung :rolleyes:

The education system is a pretty hollow reason, its not great for any subjects really. (And I can have a full convo in Irish, having never attended a Gaelscoil etc :pac:) You also go to a private school but that's for another debate. The way irish is thought in our schools has ruined the language.

Irish is dead. There's no arguing that. It's completely ridiculous that it is compulsory for the LC too (especially ordinary level where all you do is sit in class everyday writing out notes and then learning them off, regardless of whether you understand them or not).

If irish isn't already dead it should be killed as quickly as possible. You don't even want to know how much money the government spends translating legislation into Irish (even though nobody reads the Irish version) every year.

Irish is about as worthwhile as the Catholic church at this stage.

poisonated

well this might be a little off topic but..
I believe that Irish should not be forced.There is a negative image of Irish because you are forced to learn it in school.If it was optional people who want to do it can enjoy learning it and people who dont want to do it do not have it forced on them.It will give a much more positive image of the Irish language.

Fighting Irish

Feelgood wrote: »

Aside from everything else its part of your history, your heritage and your culture and country and these are things that should never be forgotten. Just like the Easter rising should never be forgotten.

It should never die and as your grow older you will come to respect that, its easy to dish Irish at school because its forced into you but as your grow older you will embrace it.

Id do the essay from these two slants to be honest, arguments for its existence and against it.

Thats great and all but why force it on somebody?

Fad

K4t wrote: »

You also go to a private school but that's for another debate. The way irish is thought in our schools has ruined the language.

Irish is about as worthwhile as the Catholic church at this stage.

How the fúck does me going to a private school make any fúcking difference to the way I learn Irish. My teachers are trained to the same standards as yours and paid by the same people. The exact same amount of time is put into teaching me, and I assure no extra effort is given into promoting Irish in my school, 14 people are taking HL at the moment.

That comparison means nothing, you just poorly express resentment at a language and an organisation that has done so much for Ireland (Regardless of my opinion of its doctrine, this is not an invite to a debate! elsewhere!)

jumpguy

Irish is a dead language. Less and less people speak it, I know nobody who actively speaks it, the Gaeltachts (or however it's spelt) are only speaking it because taxpayers money goes into it, nobody outside Ireland can understand it and a mediocre amount of people inside Ireland can hold a conversation in it. I think it should be thought in primary school MUCH better than the old system, then be optional in secondary school JC. Let the students put more effort in a language that'd actually going to prove more useful like French, German, Italian or Spanish.

JordanDC

+1 for that jumpguy.

Its fine to have as an option, I know in my school we would definatley have a class of people who actually want to learn it, so it can still remain, but its unfair to force people to learn something that they will never actually use... ever. Maths and English - fair enough, they are universal, but Irish, confined to a tiny island and a tiny population.

Blackjack

jumpguy wrote: »

the Gaeltachts (or however it's spelt) are only speaking it because taxpayers money goes into it,

Any evidence to back up your claims here?.

nowimtalking

This arguement could go on forever, but the simple fact is that Irish isnt going to become a dominant language unless we cause a war and dominate the world, as a neutral country its very unlikely!

But if anyone really cared they would research it like me:P and realise that the few people who kept irish alive were the people who died at our expense, yes in the wars of independence! Since the penal laws stated that people found teaching or dealing in Irish would be punished, endless efforts have been put in to keep it alive and as a junior cert student i can honestly say that I hate sitting in front of the Irish exam paper but it means more to me to learn the language of heros and heroines.

So your essay title could be on... the language of heros and you could twist it to highlight irish history.

jumpguy

Blackjack wrote: »

Any evidence to back up your claims here?.

Well, I'm not gonna go trawling the internet looking for a source but I just know it. One incentive we both know is extra marks for doing your exam in Irish though.

Fad

jumpguy wrote: »

Well, I'm not gonna go trawling the internet looking for a source but I just know it. One incentive we both now is extra marks for doing your exam in Irish though.

Cop out:pac:

While I dont think the marks should be given, but at the same time theyre absolutely nothing!

Blackjack

jumpguy wrote: »

Well, I'm not gonna go trawling the internet looking for a source but I just know it. One incentive we both know is extra marks for doing your exam in Irish though.

Cop out indeed, and I'm not gonna go trawling the internet looking for the evidence of your cop out as it's here on this thread.
You don't have to live in or anywhere near a Gaeltacht to do your exams through Irish.
Further, that incentive is only available to those sitting 2 specific exams. What about the rest of the Irish speaking population, what's their "Incentive"?.

Fad

Blackjack wrote: »

Further, that incentive is only available to those sitting 2 specific exams. What about the rest of the Irish speaking population, what's their "Incentive"?.

Is it not for all exams?

Blackjack

Fad wrote: »

Is it not for all exams?

only if you consider all exams to be the Leaving and Junior certs.....

Fad

Blackjack wrote: »

only if you consider all exams to be the Leaving and Junior certs.....

Which I do, are there not extra marks in medical exams?

Blackjack

Fad wrote: »

Which I do, are there not extra marks in medical exams?

I don't believe so - could be wrong, but I highly doubt it.

PurpleFistMixer

I imagine I'd fail any college exams I took, were I to answer entirely in Irish... Though the idea of learning/speaking Irish merely to do a tiny bit better in exams is madness, IMO.

Fad

Blackjack wrote: »

I don't believe so - could be wrong, but I highly doubt it.

I phrased that poorly, I meant if you were to be examined by a doctor, but to be fair the JC and LC are two pretty huge exams and often the last ones people take.

Also if you were to take Irish in Uni Im sure you'd get better marks for answering in Irish:pac:

dlofnep

jumpguy wrote: »

Well, I'm not gonna go trawling the internet looking for a source but I just know it. One incentive we both know is extra marks for doing your exam in Irish though.

Oh, you just know it now, do you? I guess that's that settled then. Jumpguy has settled the debate once and for all.

It mightn't be anything to do with the fact that Gaeilge is their first language by any chance, now would it? Oh ho ho no! That would make too much sense.

Blackjack

Fad wrote: »

Also if you were to take Irish in Uni Im sure you'd get better marks for answering in Irish:pac:

It would probably depend on the question, but there's a good chance of that alright.