ATI

topcatcbr

After a what seemed a long absence they have made a statement on their progress thus far.

See below taken from a recent email.

"The IATGN National and Regional Committees would like to wish all Members a happy New Year, and wish to update you the members on the work of the past 12 months including the following:

Establishment of Architectural Technology Ireland as a legal entity.
AIB Mortgage Stage Payment Certificates.
SEI Interim Non Domestic BER Assessor – SEI Interim Qualifying Criteria.
IATGN delegation to European Architectural Technology Conference, Copenhagen, Denmark 7th November 2008.
Irish Architectural Technology Educators Forum, Carlow IT, 21st November 2008.
Click here for link to full article

As this past year has been very busy with the finer details of how the ATI will be set up and run, developing core ethos, functions and how ATI will be recognised by fellow construction professional bodies, the National Committee now appeal to you as fellow Architectural Technology Professionals to give some consideration to giving some time and take your place in history by working with the various Task Groups and Committee’s of the ATI.

Given the vast quantity of work to be undertaken volunteers are urgently sought to fill the as yet unoccupied positions on new ATI committees. Those who are interested in becoming involved please email info@architecturaltechnology.ie .

The Members of the National Committee are very conscious of the turbulent times in the profession, the construction section generally and the country as a whole. The various committees around the country are not immune to the present situation and would like to express our solidarity with those suffering in these uncertain times. We are currently evaluating our resources in an attempt to find a way to assist in the job seeking process both domestically and overseas, and hope to have some facility in place soon to aid communication within the profession.

IATGN National Committee."

I am trying to inform and not promote any org as i have read in the charter before posting this as i know this sails a little close. But i feel it is very relevant to the members who use this sub forum.

They have not set out any timescale for membership to this new org.

Has anyone here any knowledge of this other than the info displayed above.

Poor Uncle Tom

I got the same email as you. The return email address is included to contact to help out if desired. This is a fledgeling organisation at its inception. They are getting things off the ground and I would like to be involved, thats why I will be emailing them, it would be nice to see them get the support needed. But, topcatcbr, that is just my opinion.

topcatcbr

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

I got the same email as you. The return email address is included to contact to help out if desired. This is a fledgeling organisation at its inception. They are getting things off the ground and I would like to be involved, thats why I will be emailing them, it would be nice to see them get the support needed. But, topcatcbr, that is just my opinion.

I sent an email today also offering to help.

RKQ

I read the email yesterday with interest. Its a pity they didn't receive recognition from AIB. Still it was nice to hear from them!

pseudo-tech

topcatcbr, It really has been a long time since we have heard from the IATGN. I have to agree with you on that. In addition, they have not set out a time for membership, like they set out no time for the upgraded and re-invigorated discussion forum. Maybe these things take such a long time after all and as Poor Uncle Tom mentions, they are a fledgling organisation.

I agree with Poor Uncle Tom that they should be supported, but i thought that is what everyone has been doing for over two years now.

Also, like topcatcbr, I really don't understand what has been done to date. It seems to mirror our Government's efforts at trying to save our economy by discussing it with anyone who is willing to listen and then deciding that what they hear in return is really not what they wanted to hear in the first instance.

Like all other posters on this forum, I am a supporter of the idea of a National organisation but when i look at the IATGN, what is looking back at me is Fianna Fáil in disguise.

It really is time for a reality check!!!!!!!

topcatcbr

If you compare the BERAA which should be less professional. They have orgonised themselves within weeks. They have a national comitee and an active forum. They also orgonised CPD events Gained sponsership to keep costs down.

All this within weeks.

I think that they (ATI) are too cautious. They need to set up and aquire members immediatly. These member should be the ones to decide on the direction the org goes insted of trying to have everything orgonised and decided on before allowing members.

If they just got on with it it would find its own momentum.

pseudo-tech

topcatcbr, BERAA, is a good example of what can be achieved in a short period of time. On reflection setting up a limited company (inc. article of agreement etc.), requires a ten minute phone call to your Accountant. I really don't know what is going on and am find the situation frustrating.

The South-East Regional Committee used to run CPD events (in which they charged at the door), not anymore. There is certainly a problem with first in syndrome where participants are unwilling to relinquish their position for someone who may be willing and able to achieve better results. Like my previous analogy, it's like a Government party in power and unwilling to relinquish it or unable to see the wood from the trees.

It would be interesting to discuss this matter, where suggestions could be put forward and voted upon. And before anyone suggests sending them to the email address that the IATGN have, its like sending them into a black hole.

So what would Architectural Technician's like to see now from the IATGN moving forward??????????

topcatcbr

pseudo-tech wrote: »

topcatcbr, BERAA, is a good example of what can be achieved in a short period of time. On reflection setting up a limited company (inc. article of agreement etc.), requires a ten minute phone call to your Accountant. I really don't know what is going on and am find the situation frustrating.

The South-East Regional Committee used to run CPD events (in which they charged at the door), not anymore. There is certainly a problem with first in syndrome where participants are unwilling to relinquish their position for someone who may be willing and able to achieve better results. Like my previous analogy, it's like a Government party in power and unwilling to relinquish it or unable to see the wood from the trees.

It would be interesting to discuss this matter, where suggestions could be put forward and voted upon. And before anyone suggests sending them to the email address that the IATGN have, its like sending them into a black hole.

So what would Architectural Technician's like to see now from the IATGN moving forward??????????

I have to agree with you completly. I to am finding it very frustrating.

I sent an email when asked for volenteers saying i would help in any way i can.

Thanks and we will get back to you.

What I would like is for them to be up and running NOW:(.
Before all the ATs go abroad to get work.

We can deal with any issues as they present themselves.

They are seriously loosing any momentum they had. And the lack of response from them would leed people to think they are finished.

smashey

I got an email from them today about a seminar in Waterford. No mention of current difficulties.

11:15 Curtain Walling - Adrian O’Neill, Schuco; Overview of façade system, Solar shading & Renewables (Solar thermal & PV).

12.15 Eliminating Cold Bridging (Schock) -Paul Rooney & Margaret Webster, Contech Accessories; Cold bridging, The Schöck Isokorb Explained & A Detailed Descr iption of the Types of Isokorb.

1.15 Lunch

2.15 Green Roofs - France Thornton & Martin Birmingham, Bauder; Intensive: traditional roof gardens, Extensive: ecological roofs & Biodiversity/Brown/Rubble Roofs.

3.15 Gypsum Building Systems - Evan O' Keeffe, Gypsum Industries; A review of specialist boards, metal stud partitions, jointing of plasterboards, MF ceilings, Independ ent wall linings, Shaftwall & Twinframe separating walls.

4.15 Finish.

RKQ

I got that email too Smashey.
Thats very interesting timing!
Especially considering Pseudo-tect mentioned CPD events earlier?

Seems to be a WIT event and all IATGN members are welcome.

I used to enjoy the South-East CPD nights. They were well attended.
I hope to attend WIT TECHTALK CPD / SEMINAR PROGRAMME.

I offered my help once too Topcatcbr and afterwards I came here!

muffler

muffler and smashey arriving by helicopter

archtech

I go the email too. mind you a day and a bit isn't much notice, which rules me out.

Poor Uncle Tom

I didn't get the email..:(

Maybe I'm too old...!

Definitely am too tired for all this.

No6

muffler wrote: »

muffler and smashey arriving by helicopter

Pick me up in Mayo Lads!!!:D

Slig

Got the e-mail aswell, great that its a full day event (need to clear it with boss), I'd be travelling from Leitrim/Roscommon and back in one day and I get all of ONE days notice. Thanks lads:mad:

sydthebeat

Slig wrote: »

Got the e-mail aswell, great that its a full day event (need to clear it with boss), I'd be travelling from Leitrim/Roscommon and back in one day and I get all of ONE days notice. Thanks lads:mad:

as RKQ has said... it seems to be a WIT event thats been extended to ATI,...

the lack of notice is shocking.... come on people, if you are representing an all ireland profession then give us at least enough time to consider and prepare.....

I would be very interested in seeing what ATI are doing in the current crisis where over 50% of its representative profession will be out of work before the end of the year.....

To be honest, if you compare the ATI to the BERA, who started out as simply interested parties but have now good access and influence with SEI, and have made efforts in public awareness....

i still get looked at crooked when i tell someone im an Architectural Technician.... "yer a wha'?"....

pseudo-tech

I have to concur with sydthebeat and RKQ. The inactivity and jumping on the band wagon (WIT Seminar) to gain support is becoming tiresome. Again, like our Government when something good is happening we take out the banners, put a spokes person in place and take all the plaudits. However, when real action is required the silence is deafening.

I for one would like to hear from the IATGN committee at this stage. An email every six months or so, is not communication. If they are not willing to open their discussion forum again (the only means of asking questions), please come on this forum and discuss what is happening with the concerned Technician community here in Ireland. Take a leaf out of the CIATs positive approach to questions. Put forward a representative that will openly discuss these matters.

Hiding away and not communicating only opens avenues for people to speculate, and support will diminish. If the task at hand is outside the capabilities of the current representative group, ask for help (real help) and respond to the help when it is offered.

The IATGN may succeed in their mandate at some stage. But will it be too late? Could it have been achieved quicker? Could more have been achieves in less time?

Also another point. The RIAI are trying to support all their Architects in this time of crises. They have not mentioned what they are going to do for Technician members, if anything at all. The CIAT are the only organisation who seem to be pushing forward the mandate of Technician's in Ireland, I think it's time we came out and supported them in their endeavour and stopped waiting for everyone else to catch up.

Whats going on ?????????????????????

topcatcbr

:(The governmen analagy seems appropriate alright. a bit done. More to do.

No timetable. No roadmap. No direction. No information.

It might be just the last one No information but if they dont let us know what they intend it seem they dont know.

Arry

Lads, lads, lads, you guys would make a budgie smile.

I am an Architect, but I was a Technician first and I think my background in technology makes me a better Architect (not that that has anything to do with this). I have been watching with interest what the IATGN have been doing over the past number of years, I have even attended a number of their events and I have to say hats off to these guys, they have (in their own time) given some hope for long overdue professional representation for the honourable stand alone profession of Architectural Technology.

Reading through this and other such forums, that the same people seem to be posting to, including the aforementioned IATGN forum, I have to laugh - This is why nothing has ever happened with proper professional representation for architectural technology in the past, there are guys like you lot here who demand the sun, moon and stars, then when something positive happens you stand at the side lines throwing stones and passing stupid irrelevant comments and remarks that could only be simply unhelpful.

A lot of work is being done by these guys from what I can see from the “occasional up dates” from the national committee, and hopefully they will successfully launch ATI as they said they will. Their approach seems to be appropriate; this is a marathon, not a sprint.

Furthermore, the RIAI seem to be supportive of their initiative which like it or not is important - I know you lot will say, that the RIAI have never done anything for the techies, but this is the point, nobody else should be doing anything for the “techies” but the “techies” themselves, which is what the IATGN lads and ladies seem to be doing. As for you lot, as I said earlier you would make a budgie smile, because you are the problem that has delayed things for years, expecting someone else to do it for you instead of doing it for yourself.

What a bunch of cynics you are, I think it was Wilde who said “a cynic is a man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing”. You lot on the side lines throwing stones have no value for the work done by these people (IATGN committees) who give up their free time to represent the likes of you – why do they bother.

To the men and women of the IATGN / ATI committees - Congratulations, fair play to each and every one of you, and good luck with the future.

To the cynics throwing stones from forums like this – Grow up and learn how it is to be professional and what it means.

Slig

Way to insult everybody on your fist post, that usually doesnt work out well.

If you have read this thread you will see that nearly everybody that posted on has volunteered to HELP the IATGN and have heard nothing. We have all expressed our wish to see the organisation succeed but just like the improvement in the Sligo Dublin rail success is measured by results.

If we cannot see anything happening then how are we meant to approve?
All anybody has seen of the IATGN lately is the very occasional email.

Arry

So you don't know what is going on... ?

http://www.architecturaltechnology.ie/index-rest.php?section=news&sub=view&newsID=34

It is well explained as far as I can see.

Mellor

Arry wrote: »

Furthermore, the RIAI seem to be supportive of their initiative which like it or not is important - I know you lot will say, that the RIAI have never done anything for the techies, but this is the point, nobody else should be doing anything for the “techies” but the “techies” themselves, which is what the IATGN lads and ladies seem to be doing.

I imagine that your not a member of the RIAI. Becasue if you were then you surely would actually have an idea of what the RIAI is supposed to do, if you still can't figure it out, just think who exactly they are supposed to represent.

Slig

Are you a member/committee member? I have been a member for about 8-9 months and have gotten 3 e-mails, I signed up to some electrician voltarium thing newsletter at plan expo to get a free keyring and I get an e-mail from them about every week!
Where else, other than here, can we discuss ATI matters?

muffler

This should be fun

No6

Perhaps a number of our posters who have volunteered could form the ATI public relations dept / Comittee, I think arry in fairness the lack of communication is what has got to people, if you are one of those involved or know some of them you can find out whats happening but if not you're in the dark and that is very fustrating for people a lot of whom invested a lot of hope in the IATGN. I think you'd be better advised to read all the posts relating to the IATGN / ATI before insulting the regular posters here, you might find some of us are very supportive and I know the moderators have banned a number of people for stirring (a bit like you are really!!)

No6

muffler wrote: »

This should be fun

You just love it when the fighting starts!!!!:D

Arry

Ah, you lads, you're hilarious...

"Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative"

No6

Arry wrote: »

Ah, you lads, you're hilarious...

"Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative"

If you are trying to generate support for ATI then insulting possible members is a very novel perhaps even imaginative approach all right, what is the point of joining a forum like this to get banned after three or four posts, we'll be unable to establish your consistancy. never mind find your last refuge!!!

muffler

Arry wrote: »

"Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative"

And so far you have stayed on the same theme :cool:

Slig

Arry wrote: »

Ah, you lads, you're hilarious...

"Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative"

Whats the problem? what was said to make you so agressive?

topcatcbr

Arry wrote: »

So you don't know what is going on... ?

http://www.architecturaltechnology.ie/index-rest.php?section=news&sub=view&newsID=34

It is well explained as far as I can see.

I will refer to the news post titled IATGN 2008 AND BEYOND.

Now maybee im a bit thick and uninaginitive (But then im not an Architect) But i cannot see where they have outlined their plan for the future except a refrence to ATI being a legal entity. No dates for proposed membership or devolution of the IATGN or transfer of title.

I Dont think its too much after 5 years to expect a bit more.

Now compare the BERAA
They have a website which is active and are a legit Rep body addessing the government and SEI and have set out what they are doing from a week to week basis. All this and they are only a few months in existence. And all this on a volentary basis.

I think they could be an example of how it can be done.

Nobody wants to take what they have achieved away but a bit more urgency is required and they should take up the offer of help from those who they asked it from and were offered.

But well done on joining the debate.

Mellor

Arry wrote: »

Ah, you lads, you're hilarious...

"Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative"

You seam to have a deep love of quotes, Wilde quotes paticularly. The last one is hardly relevant to anything mentioned.
You are just being critical, for no apparant reason. Its a little silly.

“The critic has to educate the public; the artist has to educate the critic.”

pseudo-tech

Can anyone understand why the new poster (who obviously put a lot of time and consideration into their post), is so hostile in their response? The general consensus, is that there has been a stunning lack of communication from the IATGN. is it any wonder why we are all disillusioned?

I for one do not see any problem with asking questions of an organisation that is there to represent Architectural Technician's. The culture in Irish society in relation to most organisations is closed door governance where they do not like their actions to be questioned e.g. Anglo Irish Bank, HSE etc. Why is this????

I find being referred to as a cynic as comical. I have watched this type of tactic before, used to try and draw people away from the real concerns. Like it or not there seems to be a lot of people dissatisfied with the current performance of the IATGN. Get over it.

Referring to us as 'you lot' is a ploy to try and create division amongst the Technician community. What is the criteria that determines the distinction between supporting the IATGN or not? Do we not live in a democratic society, whereby you have a choice in who represents you whilst also being able to question their activities or lack of as the case may be?

It would be nice to hear from the IATGN or have we already?

archtech

Few Points
It is great that there’s the BERAA for BER Assessors however one has to remember that:
The “educational” requirements for a BER Assessor are standard , set out and monitored by a single body in SEI . You do the course, you past the exam you pay your fee and you register with SEI nice and simple.
Furthermore the BERAA , in essence has only to deal with SEI.
However fair play to the BERAA for setting up at a relatively early stage, as I think not only will it be of benefit to BER Assessors but long term it will benefit everyone including SEI, particularly if it provides quality feedback to SEI on BERs.

With Architectural Technology things aren’t as clear cut.
1. The only thing in common at present in education between all the Architectural Technology courses is the name, there’s some excellent courses, some good ones and some awlful ones, so naturally the ATI have to establish a reasonable educational requirement for entry, then of course there’s all of us existing AT’s, how are qualifications and experience measured?
2. There’s the likes of the law society, banks etc to be dealt with
3. The list goes on.

However that doesn’t mean that ATI/IATGN shouldn’t keep us in the picture and upto date on progress. They seem to have gone away from the “network” element.Which is a great pity. There was an opportunity for the IATGN for establish a “social” network where members could meet up at an event have a chat , meet other AT’s in similar or different backrounds, share experiences with each other and learn, but this has now been eliminated . People in most walks of life (and organisations) will tell you that you will learn as much if not more from talking to and similar people and they sharing their experiences rather than attending a formal talk/lecture/information evening.

It looks like boards.ie has to fill that void.;)

smashey

archtech wrote: »

It looks like boards.ie has to fill that void.;)

You hit on something there archtech.

When this forum was created, I told Vexorg that this could become a place where all Architectural Technicians/Technologists could use as a sort of central meeting place. We seem to have a few now and, I dare say, we all know a lot more who don't post here.

Given the fact that there is obviously a lot of discontent regarding IATGN, would it be an idea to maybe try to form another representative body starting here? I know it certainly woldn't be easy but with the right push and attitude, it could be done.

pseudo-tech

Smashey, I think that is a good idea. I believe that archtech is on the right path, talking about Architectural Technician's as a network of professionals that can assist one another (strength in numbers). However, even though i'm frustrated with the IATGN, I would like to see them involved also. In order for that to happen they need to stop the Orwellian approach to overseeing their kingdom and embrace the Technician community.

I believe that there are posters on this forum that either know committee members personally of there are committee members posting here. I would call on those posters to request that the IATGN come out and discuss there position before another group is put in place. A small amount of collaboration between all may create something that everyone is proud of and not just the select few.

smashey

Maybe the IATGN need a kick up the collective backsides of the committee? I'm pretty sure they must be aware of this forum but haven't made their presence known. Compare that with CIAT and their "hands on" approach to queries. If anybody does happen to know a committee member, maybe an invitation should be extended to them to register here and look at what's happening and gauge the mood of the AT's?

sydthebeat

Arry, technicians generally have the personality of people who need to be informed and in touch... we need to be like this to be good at out jobs... always seeking info, researching and disseminating, so its completely understandable that we would feel frustrated by the lack of communication from the ATI committee.

isnt the whole country frustrated by the lack of communication by the government at the moment!!

There is NO ONE here that wishes to critise the committee for the work they are doing, we all understand that this is on a voluntary basis. But also remember that many here have also volunteered to help, myself included.

There was a suggestion by members at the last national meeting to provide financial assistance. This was declined by the committee, but if it would help things in ANY WAY i think it should be accepted...

muffler

Right. Who has a copy of IATGN's mailing list?

sydthebeat

people

the ATI can be reached at:

info@architecturaltechnology.ie

at any stage...

I would urge anyone who has queries or comments to contact the ATI first, before posting here in a manner that may appear critical...

muffler

smashey wrote: »

I'm pretty sure they must be aware of this forum but haven't made their presence known.

They most definitely ARE aware of the forum. Remember?

smashey

muffler wrote: »

They most definitely ARE aware of the forum. Remember?

No6

I think one of the problems with the forum on their own website was that it was completely unmoderated and there were some totally dreadful posts about various comittee members which was grossly unfair. I would suggest to the IATGN / ATI that if they have a pro that they register as ATI PRO and keep people updated with what is going on, even a regular ammount of small information not necessarily headline events just to keep people interested and involved and when issues arise let people know what is or is not happening. Smashey I dont think in fairness another body is the answer there's already two professional bodies in the RIAI and CIAT (I know one is fairly close to useless for technicians guess which!!) and this will be joined this year by the ATI. I for one do appreciate the effort they have and are putting in and I'm not on any IATGN ATI comittees (just in case you were wondering!!)

topcatcbr

I agree with No 6 we have enough rep bodies we do need another. We need ATI to get up and running ASAP. and working for us in a professional manner as a professional body. Some interation on this forum by them would be most welcome. And i aplaud the CIAT for their work to date.

smashey

Good, everybody seems to be in agreement that more communication is required.

Would there be any objections to me e-mailing them from my boards address and inviting them to join the discussion?

pseudo-tech

That's a great idea Smashey. It would remove any ambiguity and speculation. Everything to be gained by all parties is a line of communication is opened up. Hopefully, the IATGN can inform Technician's of progress on a regular basis and also request assistance in a structured manner. Very positive indeed!

RKQ

Interesting timing yet again! I always thought "they" were very aware of this forum. Two excellent examples above.

Arry is quite aggressive for a first post. Why?
Seems this issue is very close to your heart. Seems you are taking the comments very personally. Its like you feel we are disrespecting your efforts!

I don't want to sound like I'm knocking the IATGN / ATI or you Arry. ( I made a resolution & I going to stick to it!:D)

Arry you say you are an Architect. Cool! An Architect that holds Architectural Technology closer to his / her heart and having read these posts and IATGN forum (prior to it Censor) backs the Nat Committee.

Arry is entitled to express an opinion. I'd love to hear one thing that has been achieved by the National Committee? (In the last 12 months) Arry your "tone" is very familiar. There is nothing in concrete, its years since we had a vote.... its two years since we had a Regional meeting or CDP. (Remember that wet night Arry? You were so disappointed with the turnout) Its not very democratic way of doing things.

Many of us have offered our services but were ignored if we didn't follow a certain line - The "my way or no way" attitude. Many here may have experienced this.

The IATGN dropped the ball with the bank "issue". The Committee was short sighted. This IMO was the begining of the end.

IMO CIAT didn't have a great presentation at RDS original nation meeting - Plan Expro ( Thats Years ago!!:D) But they were excellent on this forum and really turned things around. They have provided excellent CPD also. They have inspired many and have reaped the rewards of extra membership - well done CIAT. A committee that achieves results, answers members questions and gets things done.

When I organised a meeting in Portlaoise the National Committee did a number of things to cause confusion and try to stop the meeting. I was then accused of trying to set up "The Real IATGN". I was shocked...

The IATGN Forum was turned off on the night of the meeting... what does that tell you? It spoke volumes to me.

Dispite the slow action, secrecy etc I still believe the IATGN can achieve great things but its got to up the ante!

The email is to IATGN members that are welcome in WIT today. Do not think IATGN members are ATI - exams / interviews etc have to be organised.

Why oh why is any mention of IATGN automatically seen as an attack? Can we grow some self confidence and allow healthy debate even allow critism? We need to grow up fast!

Hopefully we can grow together....;)

RKQ

Great idea Smashey! I'm fully in favour of honest healthy debate.

pseudo-tech

I have to agree with RKQs previous posts and would like to confirm that what he has said is correct. From the outset the IATGN have become so protective that it is obviously effecting performance. The reasons given for this secrecy is unhelpful posters, difficult questions, personal comments about individual members of the committee.

Unfortunately, when you put yourself forward for such a position you cannot be treated with kids gloves. The role that you have taken is too important to play games with or even to learn how to manage and govern. I accept that the ones that put their names forward should be commended, but at this stage all the learning is finished. You are aware of other Technician's with qualities and experiences that are broader than that of most of the committee members, but when advise and help is offered it is turned down due to no confidence.

All posters here appreciate the time, the effort, the stress and strain of those involved, but take off the blinkers and look at What is happening. Open discussions and stand up to the difficult questions and you will be rewarded by support from a group of committed people. Leaders don't hide, they stand up and take the hit squarely on the chin.

I for one will stand behind any group who is willing to take criticism and admit their faults, but are willing to change in order to move forward.

Poor Uncle Tom

OK, all fine sentiments, great ideas, willing participants, all on board, count me in, etc.,

Where to from here?

pseudo-tech

Still no response. It's starting to look like communication is not top of the IATGN agenda. Maybe the real reason for the removal of their own discussion forum was that they don't like being questioned. Not very democratic. Maybe Smashey's original idea is the way to go after all???

What do everyone else feel at this stage?