The Universe

This post is probably inspired by Pale Blue Dot, Carl Sagans book, that I just finished reading a few minutes ago.

If God created the universe, why, oh why, did He make it so vast? Wouldn't just the Earth have been adequate? Why did he need to create countless stars in countless galaxys? Relative to the vastness of space, we all know how insignificantly small Earth is; so why bother with all the rest?

It's a Christians view that the universe and all of it's contents were created for us, Humans, is it not? We feature so prominently in Gods plans, we're the focus of them, so it has to be for us, from a religious persepective of course. So why did he bother making it so large; so large that we'll never even be able to imagine an infinitely small percentage of it, let alone visit and explore it.

How can you reconcile it's vastness with the assumption that we were Gods main reason for creating it all? And please don't respond with statements such as "how can we know Gods plans" etc. I'd just like plan, honest, human answers.

Zombrex

Perhaps this thread would do better in Humanities or the A&A forum ... from past experience I anticipate the response in this forum will be along the lines of I don't know but it is something I plan to ask him when I die

Wicknight

Wicknight wrote: »

Perhaps this thread would do better in Humanities or the A&A forum ... from past experience I anticipate the response in this forum will be along the lines of I don't know but it is something I plan to ask him when I die

Ya, perhaps that's true. I didn't post it in A&A or Humanities as I wanted a religious, specifically Christian, perspective. Posting it in A&A would just reiterate what I believe myself!

Skadi

There is a view in some religions that when you die, if you have lived a worthy life then you have the ability to become a god. This would account for a large universe.

This view could even account for the death of a planet and the rebirth of a new planet.

santing

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

This post is probably inspired by Pale Blue Dot, Carl Sagans book, that I just finished reading a few minutes ago.

If God created the universe, why, oh why, did He make it so vast? Wouldn't just the Earth have been adequate? Why did he need to create countless stars in countless galaxys? Relative to the vastness of space, we all know how insignificantly small Earth is; so why bother with all the rest?

It's a Christians view that the universe and all of it's contents were created for us, Humans, is it not? We feature so prominently in Gods plans, we're the focus of them, so it has to be for us, from a religious persepective of course. So why did he bother making it so large; so large that we'll never even be able to imagine an infinitely small percentage of it, let alone visit and explore it.

How can you reconcile it's vastness with the assumption that we were Gods main reason for creating it all? And please don't respond with statements such as "how can we know Gods plans" etc. I'd just like plan, honest, human answers.

To quote a song:

The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork. Day to day pours out speech, and night to night reveals knowledge. There is no speech, nor are there words, whose voice is not heard. Their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. (Psa 19:1-4 ESV)

The universe is not made for mankind, it is made to proclaim the glory of God. It might look big, but God is even greater.

santing

santing wrote: »

To quote a song:

The universe is not made for mankind, it is made to proclaim the glory of God. It might look big, but God is even greater.

So, you're basically saying that God created it to show off to us? That doesn't seem very God-like.

kelly1

It's not that big really, at least according to God.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U67aLClWpjM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFlzyxSQhTc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J82yKdF5Mw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr7wNQw12l8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAzJy_DECyQ

DeVore

Its going to get a lot more complicated when we discover life on other planets....


DeV.

Soul Winner

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

It's a Christians view that the universe and all of it's contents were created for us, Humans, is it not?

Where did you get that from?

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

We feature so prominently in Gods plans, we're the focus of them, so it has to be for us, from a religious persepective of course.

Where did you get that from?

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

So why did he bother making it so large; so large that we'll never even be able to imagine an infinitely small percentage of it, let alone visit and explore it.

How do you know?

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

How can you reconcile it's vastness with the assumption that we were Gods main reason for creating it all?

Where did you get that from?

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

And please don't respond with statements such as "how can we know Gods plans" etc. I'd just like plan, honest, human answers.

If you can tell me where you got the aforementioned assumptions from then I'll give you my opinion on why the universe is so big. Actually no, I'll tell you now, in short, it has to be this big, otherwise we would not be here to observe it. Ok over to you now if you would like me to elaborate a bit.

Soul Winner

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

So, you're basically saying that God created it to show off to us? That doesn't seem very God-like.

Not so much to us, rather to the denizens of eternity, especially the fallen ones. We are but pawns or foot soldiers now in our present fallen state of His showingoffness. Not fallen like the angels, there is a door open for us. He did not die for them. If we make it to eternity we will be shown off as His crowning creation. Become the fulfillment of what He spoke in the beginning. "Let us make man (literally "Adam") in our own image." We will become just like Him if we hold fast till the end. Replacing the third of heaven that fell with Lucifer. That's why Jesus voluntarily paid such a high price for our salvation. God did not create everything for man, rather He created man to rule over everything. That's why Paul can say: "We are more than conquerors." One problem though, we still gotta get there!

Fanny Cradock

Wicknight wrote: »

Perhaps this thread would do better in Humanities or the A&A forum ... from past experience I anticipate the response in this forum will be along the lines of I don't know but it is something I plan to ask him when I die

Perhaps it would be best if you didn't pre-empt other people's responses. When I say this I'm assuming you are actually interested in hearing other people's responses rather that giving a facsimile of what you think individuals will say.

studiorat

DeVore wrote: »

Its going to get a lot more complicated when we discover life on other planets....


DeV.

or it discovers us...

Soul Winner

Soul Winner wrote: »

Where did you get that from?[\quote]

Well you see how I ended it with a question? That's because I was asking one. Christianity, up until the 18th century, always persisted that the universe was geocentric. And in reading the bible, I for one certainly get the impression that Humans are the most important animal that God made. So, in Christian views (albeit dated Christian views), we are the most important creature at the centre of the universe. That certainly implies that it may have been made for us.

Where did you get that from?

The bible was written for us. It is mostly about Humans. So, from what we have at hand, we see that Humans feature prominently. That implies that, perhaps, it was all made for us. But again, I wasn't stating it as fact, more so as a rhetoric.

How do you know?

Because even travelling at the speed of light it would take us over 2 million years to get to the next galaxy. And that one is relatively close. How about one that is 10 billion lightyears away, you hardly expect us to travel for 10 billion years? (And yes, that is based on the assumption that the speed of light is the fastest speed possible).

Where did you get that from?

It follows on from my premise, which may be flawed, I didn't say it wasn't.

If you can tell me where you got the aforementioned assumptions from then I'll give you my opinion on why the universe is so big. Actually no, I'll tell you now, in short, it has to be this big, otherwise we would not be here to observe it. Ok over to you now if you would like me to elaborate a bit.

Ok, I explained as best I could. Now, if my answers are to your satisfaction, could you explain your view?

Thanks.

kelly1

kelly1 wrote: »

It's not that big really, at least according to God.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U67aLClWpjM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFlzyxSQhTc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J82yKdF5Mw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr7wNQw12l8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAzJy_DECyQ

How can you draw the conclusion that it isn't that big from those videos?

Soul Winner

Soul Winner wrote: »

Not so much to us, rather to the denizens of eternity, especially the fallen ones. We are but pawns or foot soldiers now in our present fallen state of His showingoffness. Not fallen like the angels, there is a door open for us. He did not die for them. If we make it to eternity we will be shown off as His crowning creation. Become the fulfillment of what He spoke in the beginning. "Let us make man (literally "Adam") in our own image." We will become just like Him if we hold fast till the end. Replacing the third of heaven that fell with Lucifer. That's why Jesus voluntarily paid such a high price for our salvation. God did not create everything for man, rather He created man to rule over everything. That's why Paul can say: "We are more than conquerors." One problem though, we still gotta get there!

But, even if it was created to show off to other creatures or angels or whatever, creating something with the intention of bragging isn't a very God-like attribute.

PDN

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

But, even if it was created to show off to other creatures or angels or whatever, creating something with the intention of bragging isn't a very God-like attribute.

While others may indeed look at it and wonder, I don't believe the universe was created for that purpose. Nor do I believe it was made for man's benefit at all.

God may well have created it for His own pleasure, or for some other purpose of which we haven't the foggiest idea.

PDN

PDN wrote: »

While others may indeed look at it and wonder, I don't believe the universe was created for that purpose. Nor do I believe it was made for man's benefit at all.

God may well have created it for His own pleasure, or for some other purpose of which we haven't the foggiest idea.

Thanks for the honest answer. But, for me personally, the vast size is one of the strongest arguments against God. Or at least one of the strongest arguments against a theistic God, I think a deistic God fits in with it's vast size much more readily.

PDN

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

Thanks for the honest answer. But, for me personally, the vast size is one of the strongest arguments against God. Or at least one of the strongest arguments against a theistic God, I think a deistic God fits in with it's vast size much more readily.

Any reasons for that opinion?

PDN

PDN wrote: »

Any reasons for that opinion?

Well just to make it clear, I'm neither a theist or a deist. But, I'd be less reluctant to accept the idea of a deistic God over a theistic God. A theistic God is far more personal, and I think the idea of such a vast universe is very impersonal. If we are Gods only living creation (life on Earth, I mean), I don't see why he needed to make everything so vast. Perhaps he, as Christians continually say, had his reasons. But, I personally feel it's just far too large for a personal God. On the other hand, a deistic God isn't in anyway personal, so I wouldn't have the same objection.

I realise my reasons aren't very convincing, nor are they very strong. I can't articulate them very well to be honest. But, I think you might get what I'm trying to say.

Fanny Cradock

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

Thanks for the honest answer. But, for me personally, the vast size is one of the strongest arguments against God. Or at least one of the strongest arguments against a theistic God, I think a deistic God fits in with it's vast size much more readily.

I'm curious, if the universe consisted of only a handful of solar systems would a creator seem more plausible or less? Would the notion of an infinite being seem more plausible or less?

As for the size or even the age of the universe, I don't see how such things would be a consideration for God, an infinite being. Innuendo aside, size does not matter to God. So I would agree with PDN when he says that the universe was created for God's purposes. Who knows, maybe there is other life out there to amuse Him, or maybe it's much more fantastic than that!

Biro

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

Well you see how I ended it with a question? That's because I was asking one. Christianity, up until the 18th century, always persisted that the universe was geocentric. And in reading the bible, I for one certainly get the impression that Humans are the most important animal that God made. So, in Christian views (albeit dated Christian views), we are the most important creature at the centre of the universe. That certainly implies that it may have been made for us.

Lets not bother with dated views.

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

The bible was written for us. It is mostly about Humans. So, from what we have at hand, we see that Humans feature prominently. That implies that, perhaps, it was all made for us. But again, I wasn't stating it as fact, more so as a rhetoric.

If it was written for us then it stands to reason that it's mostly about us. As I said before God didn't send His son to enlighten us in the ways of the universe, he sent His son to save us and to teach us how to live and how to pray.

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

Because even travelling at the speed of light it would take us over 2 million years to get to the next galaxy. And that one is relatively close. How about one that is 10 billion lightyears away, you hardly expect us to travel for 10 billion years? (And yes, that is based on the assumption that the speed of light is the fastest speed possible).

You're also assuming that time is constant. A lot of assumptions here.

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

It follows on from my premise, which may be flawed, I didn't say it wasn't.
Ok, I explained as best I could. Now, if my answers are to your satisfaction, could you explain your view?
Thanks.

My view is that I don't see what size has to do with God to be honest. There seems to be a formula for the workings of the known universe, a formula that dates back to what we percieve as the beginning of this universe, as we know it. Who knows how many universes there are really, an infinite number? All existing as different permutations of reactions in different ways and at different times to certain actions? It's possible to mathematically demonstrate this concept, but I don't see how we can prove it. Either way, proving the existance of more than one universe (as we understand the term universe) or not being able to prove anything doesn't prove or disprove the existance of God.

Biro

Biro wrote: »

Lets not bother with dated views.

There are numerous passages in the bible that can be interpreted in a way that leads to the conclusion that the universe is geocentric. They are vague, but no more vague than most other passages that people interpret in their own ways.

Biro wrote: »

If it was written for us then it stands to reason that it's mostly about us. As I said before God didn't send His son to enlighten us in the ways of the universe, he sent His son to save us and to teach us how to live and how to pray.

Yes, I know. But that's irrelevant to the point that I was trying to make. I was trying to say that since passages in the bible can be interpreted in a way that leads to the view of geocentricism. And, since we are "made in His image", it implies that we are the most important animal on Earth. Therefore, with this view, we are the most important living creatures (Apart from God and whatnot) at the center of the universe. It doesn't take a huge leap of logic to conclude, perhaps erroneously, that it was created for us.

Biro wrote: »

You're also assuming that time is constant. A lot of assumptions here.

I didn't assume time was constant, I just didn't want to bring special relativity into a theological debate. And, time runs slower the faster you go, so it isn't constant. But, that's irrelevant.

Biro wrote: »

My view is that I don't see what size has to do with God to be honest. There seems to be a formula for the workings of the known universe, a formula that dates back to what we percieve as the beginning of this universe, as we know it. Who knows how many universes there are really, an infinite number? All existing as different permutations of reactions in different ways and at different times to certain actions? It's possible to mathematically demonstrate this concept, but I don't see how we can prove it. Either way, proving the existance of more than one universe (as we understand the term universe) or not being able to prove anything doesn't prove or disprove the existance of God.

I think this is beyond the scope of my original question. I didn't want to prove the existance of more than one universe, nor did I mention anything about other universes. I just wanted personal opinions on how the vast size of the universe can be reconciled with a personal God.

Thanks for your response.

Fanny Cradock

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

I'm curious, if the universe consisted of only a handful of solar systems would a creator seem more plausible or less? Would the notion of an infinite being seem more plausible or less?

Well that's a hard question to answer. I only started this thread to view other peoples opinions.

I just feel, personally, and perhaps erroneously, that such a vast universe is more compatible with deistic God than it is with a theistic God. And with regards to it's size, I don't think it would really make a difference, as we would still be left with the same questions about our origins.

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

As for the size or even the age of the universe, I don't see how such things would be a consideration for God, an infinite being. Innuendo aside, size does not matter to God. So I would agree with PDN when he says that the universe was created for God's purposes. Who knows, maybe there is other life out there to amuse Him, or maybe it's much more fantastic than that!

That's what I was looking for, a personal response. Thanks for your reply.

no.1

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

I'm curious, if the universe consisted of only a handful of solar systems would a creator seem more plausible or less? Would the notion of an infinite being seem more plausible or less?

If the creator was visible or if there was any solid evidence for him whatsoever, then of course his existence would be plausible and possibly even confirmed.

Who knows, maybe there is other life out there to amuse Him, or maybe it's much more fantastic than that!

That's cringe-worthy.

PDN

no.1 wrote: »

That's cringe-worthy.

If so then give reasons why. Otherwise don't troll.

Fanny Cradock

PDN wrote: »

If so then give reasons why. Otherwise don't troll.

Yeah, fire away!

Soul Winner

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

Well you see how I ended it with a question? That's because I was asking one. Christianity, up until the 18th century, always persisted that the universe was geocentric. And in reading the bible, I for one certainly get the impression that Humans are the most important animal that God made. So, in Christian views (albeit dated Christian views), we are the most important creature at the centre of the universe. That certainly implies that it may have been made for us.

The Earth maybe but not the whole Universe, but then not even the Earth. We read in Jeremiah that he (Jeremiah) saw the Earth when there was no man but there was cities, or rather meeting places of intelligent beings. If this is true then the Earth was created for other purposes other than for man. Plus we also read that when God created them, He placed them in the garden to till it and guard it, you could say they were created for Earth, or rather for God’s purposes on Earth. What passages in the Bible suggest to you that the Universe is Geocentric?

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

The bible was written for us.

Yes that is correct. All scripture was written for our instruction.

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

It is mostly about Humans.

I would say it is primarily about God and His dealings with ‘His’ people.

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

So, from what we have at hand, we see that Humans feature prominently.

Only in relation to God. God is the primary subject of most of the books in the Bible and how He interacts with His people and deals with them.

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

That implies that, perhaps, it was all made for us.

Well no it doesn’t really. Not sure how you can make that jump from what you said.

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

But again, I wasn't stating it as fact, more so as a rhetoric.

Oh??

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

Because even travelling at the speed of light it would take us over 2 million years to get to the next galaxy. And that one is relatively close. How about one that is 10 billion lightyears away, you hardly expect us to travel for 10 billion years? (And yes, that is based on the assumption that the speed of light is the fastest speed possible).

Well that’s if we try to get there by means of velocity through space. That cannot be an option because even if we were to develop the ability to travel that fast it would still be unrealistic as you have pointed out. What I would suggest to do would be to develop a way to travel to distance galaxies by means of worm holes and the like. If we could some how bend space and in doing time itself just like the way black holes can do it then that would be a good starting point. Remember 100 years ago people would have thought that technological advances we see today absolutely impossible. Who knows if another Einstein might come along and show us how to travel through intergalactic space?

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

Ok, I explained as best I could. Now, if my answers are to your satisfaction, could you explain your view?

Thanks.

Ok.

Our Universe needs to be the size it is in order for the Earth to exist. The Earth is composed of heavy elements and these heavy elements cannot be created without supernovae activity which generate the heat needed in order to bind the more basic elements (elements which existed in the early stages of the Universes creation) together to create these heavier elements in order to form the basic building blocks for Earth. To get these supernovae explosions we need stars big enough to explode in the just the right region of our galaxy and at just the right time in its history. To have stars big enough to explode like this they need to have their conditions just right too. One of these conditions is the rate at which the Universe expands. Any slower than the speed at which it now expands and the universe could not have enabled gravity to give the conditions for galaxy formation because the universe would have long ago collapsed in on itself due to the force of gravity. Any faster and the galaxies wouldn’t be able to form because the universe would have stretched too much to enable gravity to work its magic in galaxy formation. So for Earth to be here at all the universe needs to be the right age and for it to be the right age it needs to be the size it is which just so happens to be immense beyond our comprehension. Without all these factors (and many others not mentioned) Earth could not exist.

Now for Earth to have the capacity to develop and sustain even basic life forms many many even more complex variables need to be in place including the actual size of the planet. The speed of its spin, the tilt of its axis and how it orbits the Sun. The distance from the Sun i.e. the habitable zone has to be just right. Too near or too far away and life (human life at least) would be a no no because the distance from the Sun needs to be in a zone that allows water to exist in its three forms, liquid, gas and solid amongst other things, and the Earth just happens to orbit the Sun in that very zone. The Sun also has to be the right type of star. For Earth to produce and sustain basic life forms the Sun cannot be a giant and it cannot be a dwarf. Earth needs the Sun to be just the way it is. A long living stable G type star. And our solar system needs to be in a part of the galaxy that is not too near the galactic centre because the force of gravity there is too strong for the Sun to have the stable orbit it has around our galaxy. It needs to be in a location where there is no supernovae activity as this would be catastrophic for our solar system, which means that our solar system has to have developed at a point in our galaxy’s age that is just right. No more supernovae activity in our region of the galaxy.

These are just a few of the things which explain why the Universe is the size it is. Now maybe there are other planets out there that support similar life forms and maybe we will never encounter them but just because the Universe is the size it is says nothing about the importance of size to God. So what if we are so infinitesimally small. If God does exist and is able to stretch out the heavens as it is written then do you think He would be impressed by the size of something? I think not.

stakey

You'd think if a god wanted to create a planet for his people to live on he'd just make the rules of creating such a planet a little easier wouldn't you? I mean the god you refer to is meant to be all powerful and creator of the universe, as such would he not just bend the rules a bit. Also, if this god is going to play by the rules of physics (would a god not define them as oppossed to adhere to them?), he'd have to wait 9 billion years to just see the Earth form and another 2.5 billion years to see if this planet would support life as we know it.

This is a far call from the seven days the Book of Genesis claims. The more and more that is discovered about our universe and the development of life within it the more ludicrous tacking any religion on to it looks.

PDN

stakey wrote: »

You'd think if a god wanted to create a planet for his people to live on he'd just make the rules of creating such a planet a little easier wouldn't you? I mean the god you refer to is meant to be all powerful and creator of the universe, as such would he not just bend the rules a bit.

You don't know what the rules were in the first place, so you don't know if he bent them or not, do you?

Also, if this god is going to play by the rules of physics (would a god not define them as oppossed to adhere to them?), he'd have to wait 9 billion years to just see the Earth form and another 2.5 billion years to see if this planet would support life as we know it.

Yeah, an omniscient eternal God would be waiting on tenterhooks and biting His fingernails as he wondered how the formation of the planet would pan out. :rolleyes:

This is a far call from the seven days the Book of Genesis claims. The more and more that is discovered about our universe and the development of life within it the more ludicrous tacking any religion on to it looks.

If you want to discuss Young Earth Creationism then there is a mega-thread devoted to that subject. Otherwise I would suggest reading a few of the other threads on the board to get an idea what most Christians actually do believe.

Soul Winner

Soul Winner wrote: »

What passages in the Bible suggest to you that the Universe is Geocentric?

"The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose"

That implies that the Sun orbits the Earth, not the other way around.

"Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon. And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day."

That, again, implies that the Sun orbits the Earth.

"Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved."

That states that the Earth is stable, unmovable - That it remains at the center while all else moves.

The point is that there are numerous passages in the bible that can be interpreted to imply geocentricism. And my interpreting them the way I am is no less valid than creationists interpreting each of the 6 days in Genesis not to mean actual days, but longer period etc.

Only in relation to God. God is the primary subject of most of the books in the Bible and how He interacts with His people and deals with them.

Yes, well it's his book so you'd expect him to be paramount in it alright. But my point is that Humans feature prominently.

Well no it doesn’t really. Not sure how you can make that jump from what you said.

If it implies that the universe is geocentric, and we are the most important beings (apart from God and whatnot) at the centre, then it doesn't take huge leaps of logic to conclude that perhaps it was created for us.

Well that’s if we try to get there by means of velocity through space. That cannot be an option because even if we were to develop the ability to travel that fast it would still be unrealistic as you have pointed out. What I would suggest to do would be to develop a way to travel to distance galaxies by means of worm holes and the like. If we could some how bend space and in doing time itself just like the way black holes can do it then that would be a good starting point. Remember 100 years ago people would have thought that technological advances we see today absolutely impossible. Who knows if another Einstein might come along and show us how to travel through intergalactic space?

I'd rather not mix what remains to be science fiction in a theological debate.

Our Universe needs to be the size it is in order for the Earth to exist. The Earth is composed of heavy elements and these heavy elements cannot be created without supernovae activity which generate the heat needed in order to bind the more basic elements (elements which existed in the early stages of the Universes creation) together to create these heavier elements in order to form the basic building blocks for Earth. To get these supernovae explosions we need stars big enough to explode in the just the right region of our galaxy and at just the right time in its history. To have stars big enough to explode like this they need to have their conditions just right too. One of these conditions is the rate at which the Universe expands. Any slower than the speed at which it now expands and the universe could not have enabled gravity to give the conditions for galaxy formation because the universe would have long ago collapsed in on itself due to the force of gravity. Any faster and the galaxies wouldn’t be able to form because the universe would have stretched too much to enable gravity to work its magic in galaxy formation. So for Earth to be here at all the universe needs to be the right age and for it to be the right age it needs to be the size it is which just so happens to be immense beyond our comprehension. Without all these factors (and many others not mentioned) Earth could not exist.

I'd disagree with most of that. The universe certainly doesn't need to be the size it is now to produce the amounts of heavier elements needed for Earth. A few ten thousand stars would of been more than enough. And as for the expansion of the universe, yes the amount of mass in the universe at this moment is needed to control the expansion. But, had the universe been smaller, less mass would have been needed.

As for Earth to have the capacity to develop and sustain even basic life forms many many even more complex variables need to be in place including the actual size of the planet. The speed of its spin, the tilt of its axis and how it orbits the Sun. The distance from the Sun i.e. the habitable zone has to be just right. Too near or too far away and life (human life at least) would be a no no because the distance from the Sun needs to be in a zone that allows water to exist in its three forms, liquid, gas and solid amongst other things, and the Earth just happens to orbit the Sun in that very zone. The Sun also has to be the right type of star. For Earth to produce and sustain basic life forms the Sun cannot be a giant and it cannot be a dwarf. Earth needs the Sun to be just the way it is. A long living stable G type star. And our solar system needs to be in a part of the galaxy that is not too near the galactic centre because the force of gravity there is too strong for the Sun to have the stable orbit it has around our galaxy. It needs to be in a location where there is no supernovae activity as this would be catastrophic for our solar system, which means that our solar system has to have developed at a point in our galaxy’s age that is just right. No more supernovae activity in our region of the galaxy.

All of that is very good, but it's irrelevant to my original question. I agree with the specifics of where the Earth had to be in relation to the Sun, and what type of star the Sun has to be etc. But, that could of been achieved with a single galaxy, billions weren't needed.

These are just a few of the things which explain why the Universe is the size it is. Now maybe there are other planets out there that support similar life forms and maybe we will never encounter them but just because the Universe is the size it is says nothing about the importance of size to God. So what if we are so infinitesimally small. If God does exist and is able to stretch out the heavens as it is written then do you think He would be impressed by the size of something? I think not.

Thanks for your view. But, I still don't see any reason as to why He had to make it so large.

Fanny Cradock

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

Thanks for your view. But, I still don't see any reason as to why He had to make it so large.

I'm still confused as to why the size of the universe is a problem for you. If anything the enormity of the universe is exactly the type of thing I would expect from God.