Redundancy deal for Dell Workers

VO

I see that the Dell workers are complaining about the terms of he redundancy deal offered by the company. They will "only" be getting 6 weeks pay for every year capped at 52 weeks. I think that the deal is quite good when one condsiders that of people being made redundant at present are only getting statutory redundancy. They had a lot of good years where the comapny paid them well for their serivces and now they are getting a lump sum. They should be grateful!

Mark200

They should be thankful for every extra cent they get

Quazzie

I agree

chin_grin

Thanks for that insight member of HR staff for Dell.

styer

Its true that alot of people are being made redundant are only getting 2 weeks, but when Dell people see that the likes of Air lingus are getting 9 weeks and are allowed to re-aply for there jobs it can be depressing...

Another issue the Dell people are having is that the redundancy package is only on their base pay and does not include their shift allowence (25% I think.. not 100% sure)

enda1

Dell should offer free delivery on the package, they'll jump on it then!

Blazer

Look at it this way.
Channon ($16,000,000 p/a) and Jarvis ($8,000,000 p/a) got nice payoffs and no capped salary.
So why shouldn't the workers get something similiar.
Remember Dell are still making over 400 million net profit per quarter (that's a bad quarter by the way) so they can well afford to compensate the works the salary they deserver.
Something who's there's 16 weeks gets 32 weeks of the cap paid for by the government so Dell are really only paying 18 weeks or just over one week a year.
Most people are here 10+years plus and Dell reaped the awards from their work so it's rightly so they should be looked after.

Hail 2 Da Chimp

Not to mention a lot of those people are going to really struggle to find another job, without leaving Limerick. Especially skilled workers, like engineers, where the market is already flooded...
So the redundancy package isn't going to go too far when you have a mortgage to pay and no job.

VO

Mathew Reilly wrote: »

Look at it this way.
Channon ($16,000,000 p/a) and Jarvis ($8,000,000 p/a) got nice payoffs and no capped salary.
So why shouldn't the workers get something similiar.
Remember Dell are still making over 400 million net profit per quarter (that's a bad quarter by the way) so they can well afford to compensate the works the salary they deserver.
Something who's there's 16 weeks gets 32 weeks of the cap paid for by the government so Dell are really only paying 18 weeks or just over one week a year.
Most people are here 10+years plus and Dell reaped the awards from their work so it's rightly so they should be looked after.

Mathew Dell did reap the rewards during their time in Limerick but so did the workers. I can tell you from experience that redundancy terms in Ireland are extremely generous when compared with our European counterparts. Given the current economic climate I think the workers should be grateful that they are receiving 6 weeks and move on. Whinging is not going to do any good. In my humble opinion they are doing well

funk-you

While i genuinely feel sorry for the Dell staff being made redundant, anything over statutory is a major bonus. A lot of people have to realise that employers don't owe workers anything. They get paid for the work they do.

-Funk

who007

funk-you wrote: »

While i genuinely feel sorry for the Dell staff being made redundant, anything over statutory is a major bonus. A lot of people have to realise that employers don't owe workers anything. They get paid for the work they do.

-Funk

Sadly this is correct. However if you look back at our parents and grandparents you will find that it was different then. Anyone who has lost a parent will see that first hand when their (ex) work colleagues and working establishment gather around and look after the family. These days that would not happen and it doesn't because these corporate companies moved into Ireland and started making it faceless and pushed our thinking towards how we should be lucky to be working for them. Let's not forget that if we stay a number of years with these companies that we are showing our loyalty to them and hence we should be owed something!

MarkR

VO wrote: »

I see that the Dell workers are complaining about the terms of he redundancy deal offered by the company. They will "only" be getting 6 weeks pay for every year capped at 52 weeks. I think that the deal is quite good when one condsiders that of people being made redundant at present are only getting statutory redundancy. They had a lot of good years where the comapny paid them well for their serivces and now they are getting a lump sum. They should be grateful!

Well this is a post that doesn't seem to have an agenda. Yep, nothing to see, move along...


After Hours because?

Honey-ec

funk-you wrote: »

While i genuinely feel sorry for the Dell staff being made redundant, anything over statutory is a major bonus. A lot of people have to realise that employers don't owe workers anything. They get paid for the work they do.

-Funk

Very true. I was made redundant in December and got just over the statutory. And do you know what the really lovely thing is? Our company reduced the package from 5 weeks to 2 just before they let everyone go.

Charming.

garylarson

I'm an ex emplyee of Dell. For over 90% of the workers a swing shift is involved, this is worth 20% shift allowance but also means that you have to work one week v early morning starts and one week v late finishing time. It's only fair that the employees receive a reflection of that in their severance pay. This was not a surprise announcement, it's been alluded to for over two and a half years.

VO

MarkR wrote: »

Well this is a post that doesn't seem to have an agenda. Yep, nothing to see, move along...


After Hours because?

I am a shift worker:)

testicle

VO wrote: »

Mathew Dell did reap the rewards during their time in Limerick but so did the workers.

Michael

Dub13

funk-you wrote: »

A lot of people have to realise that employers don't owe workers anything. They get paid for the work they do.

-Funk

A lot of company's have to realize that customers don't owe company's anything,don't give us this patriotic crap shop up north if you want.

Dub13

Darragh29

funk-you wrote: »

While i genuinely feel sorry for the Dell staff being made redundant, anything over statutory is a major bonus. A lot of people have to realise that employers don't owe workers anything. They get paid for the work they do.

-Funk

I have to agree with this, the sense of expectation or entitlement in recent years, over and above the statutory minimum, will be something that a lot of people will have difficulty getting past now that the real deal has come to town...

Cereal Killer

VO wrote: »

I think that the deal is quite good when one condsiders that of people being made redundant at present are only getting statutory redundancy.

Yes some companies are only offering statuary redundancy, but most of them are going under for bad sales, or bad management, and go into administration. Dell is hardy a company that doesn't make a profit, ever, so this is your difference.

VO wrote: »

They had a lot of good years where the comapny paid them well for their serivces and now they are getting a lump sum. They should be grateful!

Maybe a few years back they were looked after, that is not the case anymore. Benefits have been cutback or eliminated completely from the budgets. No Christmas bonus, no overtime, no payrises(or minimal ones like 2%). Infact, the company I work for has elimated the Christmas party, and it is one of the few Multinationals left in the country.

Honey-ec

Cereal Killer wrote: »

Yes some companies are only offering statuary redundancy, but most of them are going under for bad sales, or bad management, and go into administration. Dell is hardy a company that doesn't make a profit, ever, so this is your difference.



Maybe a few years back they were looked after, that is not the case anymore. Benefits have been cutback or eliminated completely from the budgets. No Christmas bonus, no overtime, no payrises(or minimal ones like 2%). Infact, the company I work for has elimated the Christmas party, and it is one of the few Multinationals left in the country.

But that's the whole point - a Christmas party or bonus isn't an entitlement or even a benefit, it's a perk. People should be glad to get them while they're being offered, not moan as if they've been shortchanged in their salary when they're gone.

sceptre

styer wrote: »

Another issue the Dell people are having is that the redundancy package is only on their base pay and does not include their shift allowence (25% I think.. not 100% sure)

20% for the regular 4 or 5 day staff on a swing shift, nothing for weekday staff who aren't, nothing for the 3day*12 weekend staff.

old boy

why do people expect so much from dell, the dells of this world are scrooges not santy

Cereal Killer

Honey-ec wrote: »

But that's the whole point - a Christmas party or bonus isn't an entitlement or even a benefit, it's a perk. People should be glad to get them while they're being offered, not moan as if they've been shortchanged in their salary when they're gone.

My point is, is that the ML's are mean feckers, and still make huge profits, but cutting back on everything. They forget that the people in the floor are making them their money, not the people scratching at a desk.

OPENROAD

Cereal Killer wrote: »

My point is, is that the ML's are mean feckers, and still make huge profits, but cutting back on everything. They forget that the people in the floor are making them their money, not the people scratching at a desk.

What were dells profits for 2007 compared to 2006? Any news on 2008 profits yet?

YDMHSSB

OPENROAD wrote: »

What were dells profits for 2007 compared to 2006? Any news on 2008 profits yet?

financial year does not end until feb 4th i think....we are still in Q4 for another 3 weeks.

the dell redundancy package is excellent compared to about 90% of packages in ireland. and irelands redundancy packages are amongst the best in the world. in alot of countries, you get f*ck all, your told empty your desk immediatley and get the f*ck out of the building.

Lord Nikon

OPENROAD wrote: »

What were dells profits for 2007 compared to 2006? Any news on 2008 profits yet?

2005 profit $3.04 billion or $1.18 per share
2006 profit $3.57 billion or $1.46 per share up 17% from 2005. source(http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/stories/2006/02/13/daily35.html)

Revenue 07 - $55.9 million
Revenue 06 - $57.4.8 million up 3% from previous year 2007


source - http://www.dell.com/content/topics/topic.aspx/global/shared/about_dell/investors/financials/en/superview_popup?c=us&l=en&s=corp

johnnyskeleton

Cereal Killer wrote: »

My point is, is that the ML's are mean feckers, and still make huge profits, but cutting back on everything. They forget that the people in the floor are making them their money, not the people scratching at a desk.

On the other hands, the Poles will make them more money than the Irish so I suppose that's fair enough.

OPENROAD

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

On the other hands, the Poles will make them more money than the Irish so I suppose that's fair enough.

Just like when Dell originally located here, they did so because Ireland made them more money than other locations at the time-we were a low cost location, we no longer are for manufacturing jobs, I think people are still missing this point, as was mentioned Ireland in the good times should have been investing in upgrading peoples skills, improving infrastructure,broadband roll out which is still a joke in this country so that we would be in a position to be a leading player in attracting high tech jobs. Lets hope we can catch up,living in Dublin, I have only been able to get broadband in the last year :rolleyes:

TouchingVirus

Just to throw it out there I know a guy who worked in Tesco/Superquinn/KVI/Crazy Prices whatever you want to call it for 20 years, and he got over 60,000 to take voluntary redundancy, I'll tell ya he wasn't earning 60,000 a year... If I recall correctly it was 1.5 years worth of wages so having some guy working at dell for 16 years and capping his redundancy payment at 52 weeks is bollocks.

Whatever happened to "We're sorry we're leaving your country voluntarily, it's in our own best interests in the long term, you're probably gonna be shafted by this decision, have a few quid on us because we know we'll have made it back in savings in about 6 months in Poland"?

Darragh29

OPENROAD wrote: »

Just like when Dell originally located here, they did so because Ireland made them more money than other locations at the time-we were a low cost location, we no longer are for manufacturing jobs, I think people are still missing this point, as was mentioned Ireland in the good times should have been investing in upgrading peoples skills, improving infrastructure,broadband roll out which is still a joke in this country so that we would be in a position to be a leading player in attracting high tech jobs. Lets hope we can catch up,living in Dublin, I have only been able to get broadband in the last year :rolleyes:

It's amazing how in the last few years we somehow got it into our heads that we were different, that the normally accepted business rules didn't apply in Ireland, that somehow we had invented the economic equivilent of the perpetual motion machine!

Our property market, everywhere else where there was a massive property boom, was subsequently followed by a massive bust, but we allowed ourselves to believe that somehow in Ireland of all places, unique circumstances had developed that made us immune to this fundamantal reality that was the experience of other economies.

The same happened with the jobs market, everywhere else in the world, where business costs are allowed to get out of control and where competitiveness is undermined, jobs go overseas to cheaper locations, but we thought that somehow, high wages could be compatible in Ireland with sustainable employment by MNC's, in this little economic dream world we had allowed ourselves to fall asleep in!

I think this unbelievable self delusional ability of the Irish in recent years that let us actually think that some sort of different economic gravity was operating on our economy that that which operates everywhere else, deserves a special name or title, like our haplessly named Celtic Tiger!

It's actually like as if we were trying to prove the fu*king thing to ourselves as a theorem, so we'd up wages by 20% and the economy would jump another 8%, and so we'd do the same the following year and economic output would jump another 20%, and it was like some sort of equation that was operating in reverse, the more we hiked costs and wages, the stronger our economic figures appeared to be. Now we are like someone who has just jumped out of a plane without a parachute, after realising too late that gravity here is actually the same as everywhere else, but unfortunately the plane we just jumped out of is a fading dot now!

slimjimmc

TouchingVirus wrote: »

Just to throw it out there I know a guy who worked in Tesco/Superquinn/KVI/Crazy Prices whatever you want to call it for 20 years, and he got over 60,000 to take voluntary redundancy, I'll tell ya he wasn't earning 60,000 a year... If I recall correctly it was 1.5 years worth of wages so having some guy working at dell for 16 years and capping his redundancy payment at 52 weeks is bollocks.

Whatever happened to "We're sorry we're leaving your country voluntarily, it's in our own best interests in the long term, you're probably gonna be shafted by this decision, have a few quid on us because we know we'll have made it back in savings in about 6 months in Poland"?

Many companys offer higher incentives for voluntary redundancy to encourage poeple to go. They don't need to do that for compulsary redundancy since the employees don't have an option.

6 weeks bonus on top of the 2 week statutory is a good deal by any standard, I wish I got even half that when my previous employer closed the Irish plant.

jester77

I think it's a poor deal they are getting. My dept. got made redundant from a large US multinational last September with our jobs getting transferred to Poland and India. I was only there 3 years and 2 months and I got a full years wage into my pocket after tax. We got well looked after, were told 6 months in advance. We all got €10k up front, didn't have to work the 6 months, you could leave if you found a job but if you stayed they gave us an extra 3 months wage, extra months wage per each kid, and then x amount of weeks per year worked, I actually forget what x was, i remember it wasn't that high.

Boskowski

TouchingVirus wrote: »

Whatever happened to "We're sorry we're leaving your country voluntarily, it's in our own best interests in the long term, you're probably gonna be shafted by this decision, have a few quid on us because we know we'll have made it back in savings in about 6 months in Poland"?

Erm...this is the real world. In the real world a company like Dell isn't 'sorry'. A multinational company doesn't have a conscience, all she answers to is profit. And I don't mean that in a bitter way. It's like a coffee machine doesn't have a conscience.
So their redundancy packages are dictated by PR damage limitation and otherwise keeping cost to a minimum. They're not going to hand out charity packages because they pity the workers. If they did they wouldn't be going to Poland in the first place.

ArmaniJeanss

garylarson wrote: »

For over 90% of the workers a swing shift is involved, this is worth 20% shift allowance but also means that you have to work one week v early morning starts and one week v late finishing time.
It's only fair that the employees receive a reflection of that in their severance pay.

I don't understand the logic behind the shift workers expecting a better severance package.
The extra they got was for working the shifts.
When they are out of a job they will be out of a job for the same 24hour day as all the other employees (and obviously I wish all of them the best getting a new job quickly).

Daithi McGee

Darragh29 wrote: »

I have to agree with this, the sense of expectation or entitlement in recent years, over and above the statutory minimum, will be something that a lot of people will have difficulty getting past now that the real deal has come to town...

I thanked Darragh twice in this thread, I feel dirty!

It is about time this country woke up to reality. As an employer for the last tens years I am sick to the teeth of dealing with people who think the world owes them something. I consider myself very fair and I pay people what they are worth and reward them on the same basis.

As much as I fear the current economic climate my one and only heartfelt good thought about this recession is that all the young people, about 20 to 28 years of age, who think that employers should be over the moon that they are actually at work, get the wake up call of their lives.

You work and you get paid for that work. It is that simple. If you lose your job and you get something in compensation, be glad of it.

People can moan all they want about how much Dell made last year but has it ever occured to you they might be looking 5 years ahead and they can see that sales are going to slump big time? I doubt all these newly unemployed people are going to be upgrading their pc/laptop any time soon like they have in the past.

Perhaps they are going to use past profits to ride out the impending storm that is coming their way? Who knows? I don't but I am glad I have a job and if I lose it I will be glad of any money that comes my way.

ixoy

I think that's a pretty fair deal, given the scale and number of workers. In fact it's exactly the same deal that I got when I was made redundant and I was happy to get something above what was required. I didn't feel "owed" a whole lot more.

billy the squid

VO wrote: »

Mathew Dell did reap the rewards during their time in Limerick but so did the workers. I can tell you from experience that redundancy terms in Ireland are extremely generous when compared with our European counterparts. Given the current economic climate I think the workers should be grateful that they are receiving 6 weeks and move on. Whinging is not going to do any good. In my humble opinion they are doing well

Prices are alot lower for our european partners, yet it doesn't stop businesses from analy raping us with their prices. comparing redundancy packages in europe to those in ireland is a crock of ****.

The dell workers at the very least deserve to have the cap removed. some of them who will never work again due to their age will lose out to the tune of as much as 40 k after 15-20 years of working god awful hours on the lines in dell.

ntlbell

styer wrote: »

Its true that alot of people are being made redundant are only getting 2 weeks, but when Dell people see that the likes of Air lingus are getting 9 weeks and are allowed to re-aply for there jobs it can be depressing...

Another issue the Dell people are having is that the redundancy package is only on their base pay and does not include their shift allowence (25% I think.. not 100% sure)

why would include a fecking shift allowance??

they wont be working any shifts!

shift allowance is to compensate the horrible hours

they wont have _any_

jesus

ntlbell

billy the squid wrote: »

Prices are alot lower for our european partners, yet it doesn't stop businesses from analy raping us with their prices. comparing redundancy packages in europe to those in ireland is a crock of ****.

The dell workers at the very least deserve to have the cap removed. some of them who will never work again due to their age will lose out to the tune of as much as 40 k after 15-20 years of working god awful hours on the lines in dell.

dell could have had no cap and gave the mandaotory 2 weeks like most companies you wont end up any better off they should be glad of the 6 weeks

kowloon

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I don't understand the logic behind the shift workers expecting a better severance package.
The extra they got was for working the shifts.
When they are out of a job they will be out of a job for the same 24hour day as all the other employees (and obviously I wish all of them the best getting a new job quickly).

I suppose they expect to be given a redundancy based on their usual take home pay, which included the shift bonus. People base their expenditure on the take home, not the basic, so it makes as much sense as, say, a high up manager getting a larger redundancy. They'll be just as unemployed as the rest.

Darragh29

ntlbell wrote: »

why would include a fecking shift allowance??

they wont be working any shifts!

shift allowance is to compensate the horrible hours

they wont have _any_

jesus

Kind of have to agree with this. What I'm seeing from Dell workers now is pure fear, it's like they cannot believe what is happening here...

billy the squid

Oh and VO, given that the redundancy package was decided unilaterally, I wouldn't go calling it a "deal"

ntlbell

kowloon wrote: »

I suppose they expect to be given a redundancy based on their usual take home pay, which included the shift bonus. People base their expenditure on the take home, not the basic, so it makes as much sense as, say, a high up manager getting a larger redundancy. They'll be just as unemployed as the rest.

do you think they would pay out for mileage? overtime? etc?

no? why would they pay out for shift allowance? it's given to make up for unsocialble hours etc its not part of your salary

middle to high management get bigger packages because they're on bigger salaries...

wtf like

ntlbell

Darragh29 wrote: »

Kind of have to agree with this. What I'm seeing from Dell workers now is pure fear, it's like they cannot believe what is happening here...

kind of?

is fear now causing utter stupidity?

Darragh29

ntlbell wrote: »

kind of?

is fear now causing utter stupidity?

I think it's denial.

YDMHSSB

i dont know why this has come as such a shock, here is the real day that dell closed limerick - (quick google check and this is what came up). once poland was even purchased, limerick was on the way out. its been coming for well over 2 years.

---

Bracknell, September 18, 2006


Dell is expanding its manufacturing operations in Europe by building a facility at Łódź, Poland to meet increased demand and support the company's growth across Central and Eastern Europe. Scheduled to open in Autumn 2007, the new facility is expected to employ around 1,000 people initially.

The new facility represents a Dell investment of €200 million in the growing Polish economy. Further indirect investment by Dell suppliers in the region is expected to be around €53 million. According to Dell, the new factory in Poland will be among the most advanced worldwide, offering improved flow of materials and newly-designed ergonomic manufacturing cells.

Dell Łódź will be located within a 500 kilometre radius of a Central and European IT market that is expected to grow by 13.9 per cent annually during the next five years. Once the new facility is operational, Dell's Central, Nordic and Eastern European customers can expect a reduction of at least two days over the current system delivery times.

Commenting on the announcement, Paul Bell, Senior Vice President, Dell EMEA, said, "Proximity to a large base of Dell customers, the significant opportunity for growth promised by the Central and Eastern European economies, and the availability of a well-educated Polish workforce were key factors in our decision. This expansion is part of our ongoing investment in superior customer experience and Dell’s long-term growth. We acknowledge the great support of our partners in this project – the Polish Government, PAIiIZ and Łódź City Council".

Complementing the successful Ireland-based manufacturing operation, the Łódź facility will produce and deliver Dell's innovative technology products including the award-winning LatitudeTM and InspironTM laptops, customised to meet the specific needs of Dell's business and consumer customers. The new facility will be led by Sean Corkery, Vice President of Dell' Europe, Middle East and Africa (EMEA) manufacturing, since 2000. Mr Corkery will report to Nicky Hartery, Vice President of Operations, Dell EMEA, who will have overall responsibility for both European manufacturing sites.
Candidates interested in applying for roles at Dell Łódź should call +48 22 4330343
Prospective suppliers should call +48 22 4330353

---

The Mighty Ken

Why does Dell owe anyone anything? They came here, they provided their staff with jobs for 20 years and contributed considerably to the economy and now they're going somewhere cheaper. Were the staff promised that Dell would be around forever and that they had a 'job for life'? It amazes me that people have invested their entire lives in a footloose multinational and now feel that they're owed something because the company wants to cut costs. It's a basic function of capitalism that companies will tell you to fvck off when you become too expensive. Welcome to the real world folks.

Slidey

Daithi McGee wrote: »

As an employer for the last tens years I am sick to the teeth of dealing with people who think the world owes them something. I consider myself very fair and I pay people what they are worth and reward them on the same basis.

Daithi McGee wrote: »

I don't but I am glad I have a job and if I lose it I will be glad of any money that comes my way.

Ummmm, bit confused here horse..

Are you an employer or an employee?

slimjimmc

He could be both.
Being an employer usually results a paid job such as Managing Director, in which case he is also an employee even if he owns the business.

ROC1977

Banta and Flex/IEC are letting everyone go too. They are getting 6 weeks for every year . But this their best six weeks including overtime and Shift allowence. Alot of these people work along side Dell people in the EMF plant. Someone in Banta 10 years and someone in Dell 10 years. Banta are getting double what Dell are getting. Thats why employees of Dell are p1ssed off. All the other business Dell have contractors for Banta, Flex, Sercom, all get paid better than Dell. And those companies are in trouble, Dell is still making 100's of Millions. Still making loads of profit, but 0% growth. Which is down to the ecconomic down turn. Dell manufacturing in Limerick isn't closing because anything other than greed. Nick Cannon was employed on a 6month contract to make a 3billion cut back. And getting paid 10 million dollars to do it. If Mick Dell wanted to give me a 10th of that I could have just said close Limerick. 10 euro an hour or 3 an hour???!!! I would do the same if I was Dell. I've no problem with them pulling out. I'm there 12-13 years so long I don't know anything other than Dell. I'm happy they are leaving. Otherwise I'd waste away another 10 years and find i'm in my 40's going fcuk what happened to my life. Working shift that long you don't even see the weeks go by. You can't play any sports you can't take evening classes. You barely see your kids. Working in Dell 12 hour shifts Monday to Friday 7:30am to 7:30pm one week, the following week the same thing but Pm to Am. And then in Sat and Sunday to do OT. Often for months on end. I started in Dell on what they are on in Poland now. 3 pound an hour, you had to do every hour do get some extra cash. Now after 13 years my money ain't bad but ain't great either. With about OT and Shift allowance last tax year earned about 37,000.
Redundancy 27,000. Guys there 6 or 7 years getting the same as me due to the 52 week cap.
So all you saying should be glad with six weeks .Of that 27000, the tax payer is paying 13000, Dell are paying 14000. So in my case Dell are only giving me 2.3 weeks for every year I worked for them.
Thats why Dell employees aren't happy with it, well... thats my input on it anyway. I can't wait to see the back of them, exciting times ahead.(I don't mean good times! just tring to keep positive! lol) I just hope we have a nice summer so I can get to see a bit of day light again, and enjoy my time off.