Joining dual carriageways/motorways

mcwhirter

When joining motorways and dual carriageways from a filter lane, who has right of way? The car joining or the car already on the main road?
This week I have been on M50 and everytime I am in inside lane and cars are entering from filter lane, they just join the road pushing you out of the way with no concern of who is on the road. What is the rush for anyway?
Its really annoying and I'm planning on buying a Magnum like Dirty Harry's.

farva

So you don't pull over from the left lane to the overtaking lane and allow people to join the motorway/dual carraigeway? If they are joining and pushing you out of the way where do you expect them to go when they are merging onto the motorway/dual carraigeway?

It really p1sses me off when people don't pull over and allow merging traffic join, it's very ignorant. I assume that its in the rules of the road to pull over and allow merging traffic join, but it's just good manners to do so.

Davidth88

It's a joint responsibility to be honest

The person coming in obviously has to ensure they can merge safely , however the people on the motorway should have some presence of mind to watch for this and allow them to join.

On empty/near empty motorways move over when approaching a junctions ( assuming the overtaking lane is vacant and you don't have a much quicker car coming up , this works better on 3 lane motorways ). On busy motorways such as the M50 this isn't so practical , then you may need to either speed up / slow down to allow the merging car to come in.

The main thing is the merging car HAS to get to the speed of the motorway for this to happen, all to often you see inexperienced/untrained drivers actually slow down or even stop in the merging lane this is really really dangerous.

Something else I have noticed here ( I drove in Britain for 25 yrs before moving here ) is people crossing the hatchings, I had never seen this before , it's so stupid !

Joining a busy motorway like the M50(M25 ) requires co-operation from both parties

Padraig Mor

farva wrote: »

So you don't pull over from the left lane to the overtaking lane and allow people to join the motorway/dual carraigeway? If they are joining and pushing you out of the way where do you expect them to go when they are merging onto the motorway/dual carraigeway?

It really p1sses me off when people don't pull over and allow merging traffic join, it's very ignorant. I assume that its in the rules of the road to pull over and allow merging traffic join, but it's just good manners to do so.

You might want to re-read the ROTR. The car joining the M-way / dual carriageway must yield to traffic already on the road. Cars already on the road are under no obligation whatsoever to facilitate your entry - although I would consider it best practice to move to the overtaking lane briefly *provided it is clear* to let traffic on. However, if you find that you cannot join a M-way / DC without 'assistance' from other drivers, you really shouldn't be driving.

T-Maxx

farva wrote: »

So you don't pull over from the left lane to the overtaking lane and allow people to join the motorway/dual carraigeway? If they are joining and pushing you out of the way where do you expect them to go when they are merging onto the motorway/dual carraigeway?

It really p1sses me off when people don't pull over and allow merging traffic join, it's very ignorant. I assume that its in the rules of the road to pull over and allow merging traffic join, but it's just good manners to do so.

And it really pisses me off when people simply barge in and expect you to move over to allow them in.

I suggest you read the ROTR before you come shooting your mouth off.

Bluetonic

If you can't look in your mirror and adjust your speed to filter in then you shouldn't be in a car, **** sake it's not difficult.

Very annoying where a driver automatically moves out to allow another to filter in when it is totally unnecessary and they can't work out that something doing 50k more than you will be up your arse in a few seconds.

Idiots.

cjt156

farva wrote: »

So you don't pull over from the left lane to the overtaking lane and allow people to join the motorway/dual carraigeway? If they are joining and pushing you out of the way where do you expect them to go when they are merging onto the motorway/dual carraigeway?

It really p1sses me off when people don't pull over and allow merging traffic join, it's very ignorant. I assume that its in the rules of the road to pull over and allow merging traffic join, but it's just good manners to do so.

This attitude is exactly what's wrong with drivers in this country. People (ignorant of the correct procedure) start doing the wrong thing & then expect others to adapt. Little by little the incorrect procedure becomes the norm; hence we get people not indicating on roundabouts, holding up the outside lane and barging on to Motorways.

By all means open up a gap on a busy road to let others merge; but to expect others to change lanes just because you're coming in is completely at odds with the purpose of a motorway.

Seth Brundle

Its pretty much the same principal as someone joining a road from a normal junction. Traffic already on the road has right of way and those wishing to join must join when it is safe to do so.

mcwhirter

farva wrote: »

So you don't pull over from the left lane to the overtaking lane and allow people to join the motorway/dual carraigeway? If they are joining and pushing you out of the way where do you expect them to go when they are merging onto the motorway/dual carraigeway?

It really p1sses me off when people don't pull over and allow merging traffic join, it's very ignorant. I assume that its in the rules of the road to pull over and allow merging traffic join, but it's just good manners to do so.

I'm assuming that your opinion is a wind-up or you are extremely thick.

kuro_man

Ther two principal problems with merging onto motorways in Ireland are:

1. merging traffic is going too slow, often slowing down cars behind it. How can is possibly be safe to merge into traffic doing 100kph when your doing 60kph? This forces cars on the motorway to brake or change lanes thereby slowing the whole road down. Idealliy, you shouldn't have to change lanes to allow someone in, just leave a gap. If they match your speed they can slot in easily.

2. Cars tailgaiting on the motorway leave little room for merging
It amazing how many cars driving "safely" below the speed limit (maybe 100kph on a 120kph road) but leave only a car-length between them and the car in front. You'd be safer doing 140kph in the outside lane. When someone merges, they all brake, slowing the road down, encouraging more cars onto outside lane.

Bottom line is Guards do not stop people for this type of driving and, people are ignorant of good driving practice. If people were pulled in and spoken to, they'd get the message. Repeat/serious offenders should have to take a day off work and attend a driving course.

fricatus

I was taught to drive in England, and because the traffic joining the motorway has to yield to traffic already on the motorway, they use the following technique:

- Accelerate to near motorway speed on the sliproad
- Look for a gap between cars on the lane you'll be joining (the road is designed so that you can see over to it)
- Adjust your speed so that you'll be in the gap when the hatch markings finish and the broken white line appears.
- Mirror, signal, manoeuvre!

When you're already on the motorway, you're only expected to show common sense, i.e. not suddenly brake or accelerate, or similarly fcuk about.

I remember telling my instructor that Irish drivers tear across the hatch markings and head straight for the overtaking lane - he nearly had a convulsion.

andrewh5

Drivers joining a motorway or dual carriageway should ensure they have matched their speed to the speed of drivers on the road they are joining. How often do people try to crawl onto roads here? Loads of times!

If the carriagway is not clear then you should drive along the hard shoulder until there is a space and you have matched the speed. That is OFFICIAL police teaching in the UK.

T-Maxx

fricatus wrote: »

...Irish drivers tear across the hatch markings and head straight for the overtaking lane...

I see this on a daily basis.

(OP: Bring on the .44 Magnum...)

McSpud

Padraig Mor wrote: »

You might want to re-read the ROTR. The car joining the M-way / dual carriageway must yield to traffic already on the road. Cars already on the road are under no obligation whatsoever to facilitate your entry

Not saying it is not true but seems like a stupid rule. By that logic a packed left lane of the motorway could force joining traffic to stop on the slip road as no room to join.

I would always look to move to outer lane if possible to allow traffic room to enter the Motorway. I am sure I read this was the rule in either the US or UK.

xabi

From the Rules of The Road: Talking about the overtaking lane

"On a two-lane motorway, use this for overtaking only and move back into lane 1 when you have finished. You may also use this lane to accommodate traffic merging from the left."

I think it shows courtesy to move into the overtaking lane to allow someone to merge, if safe to do so obviously.

X.

peasant

xabi wrote: »

I think it shows courtesy to move into the overtaking lane to allow someone to merge, if safe to do so obviously.

Self preservation would be another motive for doing so

Heroditas

andrewh5 wrote: »

Drivers joining a motorway or dual carriageway should ensure they have matched their speed to the speed of drivers on the road they are joining. How often do people try to crawl onto roads here? Loads of times!

Poor signage is another big issue. When you're joining the M50 southbound from the N4 heading east, there are signs telling you to slow to 30kmph when you navigate the turn onto the slip road.
Now most drivers with any sense speed up when they get to the bottom of the turn and hit the straight but I've often seen many drivers continue to crawl along at 30kmph or a tad over that speed and then try to merge ont othe M50.
In fact, I've even seen one person at about that speed manage to drift out into the middle lane at that speed before finally hitting an earth-shattering speed of 50kmph... no indicators on the car either. :rolleyes:

maceocc2

From the Horses mouth

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/motorways/joining-the-motorway.html

No mention of traffic already on the road moving across lanes to accommodate, however, I would personally move over IF it was safe to do so.

xabi

maceocc2 wrote: »

From the Horses mouth

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/motorways/joining-the-motorway.html

No mention of traffic already on the road moving across lanes to accommodate, however, I would personally move over IF it was safe to do so.

It mentions it in the 'On the motorway' section.

Turbulent Bill

Heroditas wrote: »

Poor signage is another big issue. When you're joining the M50 southbound from the N4 heading east, there are signs telling you to slow to 30kmph when you navigate the turn onto the slip road.
Now most drivers with any sense speed up when they get to the bottom of the turn and hit the straight but I've often seen many drivers continue to crawl along at 30kmph or a tad over that speed and then try to merge ont othe M50.
In fact, I've even seen one person at about that speed manage to drift out into the middle lane at that speed before finally hitting an earth-shattering speed of 50kmph... no indicators on the car either. :rolleyes:

I'd add illogical signage to this. On the N4 eastbound at the Newcastle junction, the slip onto the N4 has a 'Stop' rather than 'Yield' at the end - you must stop, regardless of the traffic situation. This leads to the farcical situation where you have to stop dead metres from the N4, then speed up to traffic speed from rest. I treat this as a 'Yield' for safety, but technically I'm in the wrong. It might be due to the roadworks, but it's dangerous.

craichoe

Shouldn't this thread be in the 'Learning to Drive' section

Mitch Connor

xabi wrote: »

From the Rules of The Road: Talking about the overtaking lane

"On a two-lane motorway, use this for overtaking only and move back into lane 1 when you have finished. You may also use this lane to accommodate traffic merging from the left."

I think it shows courtesy to move into the overtaking lane to allow someone to merge, if safe to do so obviously.

X.

If there is room in the overtaking lane, and I'm not going to cause a problem for someone in th eovertaking lane, I would move into it coming to a junction, especially if i see 2 or 3 cars about to merge. However, if the overtaking lane can not be moved in to, i would still slightly adjust my speed (slower or faster depending on the situation) to create space for cars to move in to - generally space for one car to merge into ahead of me, second car can move in behind - zip like.

peasant

craichoe wrote: »

Shouldn't this thread be in the 'Learning to Drive' section

How so?

Last time I checked learner drivers weren't allowed on motorways

Mitch Connor

craichoe wrote: »

Shouldn't this thread be in the 'Learning to Drive' section

Of no relevance there - they ain't allowed on the motorway, and we all know once you have you license you have nothing left to learn.

20goto10

And don't you just love merging lanes during rush hour. There should be penalty points for idiots who stop to let merging traffic in. And how many times have you seen two cars at a standstill trying to merge with each driver waving to the other saying "you go first, no you go first, ah go on go on".

Mitch Connor

20goto10 wrote: »

And don't you just love merging lanes during rush hour. There should be penalty points for idiots who stop to let merging traffic in. And how many times have you seen two cars at a standstill trying to merge with each driver waving to the other saying "you go first, no you go first, ah go on go on".

Or the wonderfull piece of design on the M50 that brings the 3 lane section down to two lanes at almost the exact spot the firhouse traffic merges. So you get clows going as far as possible before merging in FORCING people to either stop of have their car banged.

20goto10

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Or the wonderfull piece of design on the M50 that brings the 3 lane section down to two lanes at almost the exact spot the firhouse traffic merges. So you get clows going as far as possible before merging in FORCING people to either stop of have their car banged.

This is exactly the spot I'm talking about There's absolutely no reason why traffic should come to a standstill here. Its obviously going to cause a slow down, but no reason for a complete halt.

tin79

yes but if people did not slow right down or stop to let people in during rush hour on the m50 then no-one trying to get on at ballymun, finglas, etc would ever be able to join when its bumper to bumper at 10kmph. if people didnt stop to let them in then they would be sitting there for hours

mcwhirter

tin79 wrote: »

yes but if people did not slow right down or stop to let people in during rush hour on the m50 then no-one trying to get on at ballymun, finglas, etc would ever be able to join when its bumper to bumper at 10kmph. if people didnt stop to let them in then they would be sitting there for hours

It is different though when the roads are not bumper to bumper. It can be dangerous moving across lanes especially when forced.

MarkR

Bluetonic wrote: »

If you can't look in your mirror and adjust your speed to filter in then you shouldn't be in a car, **** sake it's not difficult.

Very annoying where a driver automatically moves out to allow another to filter in when it is totally unnecessary and they can't work out that something doing 50k more than you will be up your arse in a few seconds.

Idiots.

Eh? Person in left lane who moved over to facilitate entry would be doing about 100km/h, so if you (the person presumably being annoyed by this) would have to be downing 150 km/h?

L1011

MarkR wrote: »

Eh? Person in left lane who moved over to facilitate entry would be doing about 100km/h, so if you (the person presumably being annoyed by this) would have to be downing 150 km/h?

This is a hypothetical Irish motorway, person moving out of way could be doing 70km/h or less...

jor el

farva wrote: »

So you don't pull over from the left lane to the overtaking lane and allow people to join the motorway/dual carraigeway? If they are joining and pushing you out of the way where do you expect them to go when they are merging onto the motorway/dual carraigeway?

It really p1sses me off when people don't pull over and allow merging traffic join, it's very ignorant. I assume that its in the rules of the road to pull over and allow merging traffic join, but it's just good manners to do so.

Why is everyone jumping down farva's throat on this? He's bang on with what he's said here. Traffic in the inside lane should move into the outside lane to allow merging traffic to enter safely, if it's possible. There are plenty of cases where it's almost a necessity, as merging may not be possible if there's no space to merge. You should not force cars out of the way though.

Take a case when several cars are in the inside lane, at speed, and several cars come down the joining lane, at speed. Where do they all go when they get to the end of the merging lane, if the inside lane is full of cars? They can slow, or stop, but this defeats the purpose of merging lanes. If the cars in the inside lane can move into the outside lane, then they should. If the cars in the inside lane are traveling below the speed limit, or there are sufficient gaps between them, then merging should not be an issue. Simply go faster, or slip in between them.

Of course, they could merge individually between the cars in the driving lane, because nobody in Ireland ever drives tail to tail, do they?

There is always the case of where the motorway is at a stand still though, in which case merging is a different story. Moving out of the way is probably off the cards, and in this case, the merging traffic must simply wait for a gap to merge into, often depending on the generosity of those in the inside lane.

mcwhirter wrote:

It is different though when the roads are not bumper to bumper. It can be dangerous moving across lanes especially when forced.

If the road is reasonable clear, then changing lanes need not be dangerous. If it is dangerous, then you can't change lane. Nobody should be forced to do it, but if possible, you should, in order to not have any traffic slowing down.

jor el

MYOB wrote: »

This is a hypothetical Irish motorway, person moving out of way could be doing 70km/h or less...

If the person in the inside lane is doing 70kmph, then someone joining the road at 100kmph, should have no issue. If the general speed of traffic on the road is 70kmph, then the joiner should only be doing this speed (the merging lane allows you to reach the speed of the traffic after all), and there shouldn't be anyone coming up behind them at 120kmph.

It's very simple. If possible, move over. If the motorway is choc-a-block and almost at a standstill, then everyone must give or nobody goes anywhere. Merging lanes work when the traffic is moving. Even slow moving traffic must allow room for merging traffic. If it's at a standstill, then it may as well be a stop sign.

L1011

jor el wrote: »

If the person in the inside lane is doing 70kmph, then someone joining the road at 100kmph, should have no issue. If the general speed of traffic on the road is 70kmph, then the joiner should only be doing this speed (the merging lane allows you to reach the speed of the traffic after all), and there shouldn't be anyone coming up behind them at 120kmph.

It's very simple. If possible, move over. If the motorway is choc-a-block and almost at a standstill, then everyone must give or nobody goes anywhere. Merging lanes work when the traffic is moving. Even slow moving traffic must allow room for merging traffic. If it's at a standstill, then it may as well be a stop sign.

Except this is, again, Ireland meaning people try to join running motorways significantly below speed.

I only move over if its clear the driver coming on is unlikely to be able to match speed properly - e.g. if its a truck and I'm doing 120k; or its a Nissan Micra and I'm doing any speed more than 0.

jor el

MYOB wrote: »

Nissan Micra and I'm doing any speed more than 0.

Add Yaris, Corsa and Punto, and you'll be spot on. :pac:

Yes, if the people merging can't/won't join the motorway at the speed of the traffic, then again, the merging lane fails. If there's a gap there, then merging should be easy, and doesn't require anyone to do anything special, just to know what they're doing (which, granted, is a special requirement for a lot of Irish motorists).

Stark

jor_el wrote:

If the person in the inside lane is doing 70kmph, then someone joining the road at 100kmph, should have no issue. If the general speed of traffic on the road is 70kmph, then the joiner should only be doing this speed (the merging lane allows you to reach the speed of the traffic after all), and there shouldn't be anyone coming up behind them at 120kmph.

Emphasis on the word *should*. It's the responsibility of the person entering the motorway to match their speed to traffic already driving in the nearest lane. Provided the cars in the inside lane are leaving sufficient space between themselves and the car in front, then there is absolutely no reason for them to change lanes.