Boxer - NO fee for RTE/PSB!

ShotgunPaddy

Does Boxer pay a fee to RTE to carry the RTE channels?

bk

ShotgunPaddy wrote: »

Does Boxer pay a fee to RTE to carry the RTE channels?

No, RTE will have their own mux for their own channels.

Boxer boxes will just happen to be able to receive the RTE channels and in fact will be required to do so by the Dept of Comms.

ShotgunPaddy

bk wrote: »

No, RTE will have their own mux for their own channels.

Boxer boxes will just happen to be able to receive the RTE channels and in fact will be required to do so by the Dept of Comms.

Sure. RTE will have their own mux but the mux sends the feed usually via fibre optic to the transmission mast and the mast transmits the DTT signal. If RTE own the transmission infrastructure then surely Boxer will have to pay to use it.

watty

RTE pay RTENL for RTE feeds and transmission.

It's likely Boxer pays RTENL to feed it's own PAY TV & likely pay RTENL for Transmission. but AFAIK they have not finalised a deal yet.

The Cush

The attached document from the RTENL website sets out RTÉNL's proposed schedule of tariffs for DTT.

ShotgunPaddy

The Cush wrote: »

The attached document from the RTENL website sets out RTÉNL's proposed schedule of tariffs for DTT.

So that's 3 to 3.5 mil for commercial broadcasters. I wonder how much Boxer will charge TV companies for a slot on the mux? In the UK slots are subject to a bidding process and can cost up to 10 million. So let's say Boxer sells the Irish slots for Euro 2 mil each and broadcasts 10 channels. That's a 20 million per year just for providing a mux. Why don't we just give them a licence to print money.

slegs

They wont sell too many slots if they charge 2m considering they will be lucky to sign up 10k customers imo

watty

No, Generally Boxer will PAY the TV companies. Only rubbish Broadcasters will have to pay them or RTENL to get on.

FTA: The TV company pays for Broadcast.

Pay TV: The Pay TV company pays for Broadcast AND pays for Content.

BBC/ITV/C4 are very cheap.
Sky1 is expensive.
Disney More Expensive.
Sky Sports Very Expensive.

If Setanta decided to sell DIRECT to customers (1) rather than through Boxer they would get the sub money (or extra sub on top of Boxer Sub) and then pay Boxer and/or RTENL. If Boxer decided to include Setanta as an option (2), then they pay Setanta for each customer.

In scenario (1), Setanta has to pay extra for marketing and sales support. In scenario (2) they have less control but no extra overheads, so it could be more profitable. In (1) id Boxer didn't really want Setanta they would charge a lot more for Access. In (2) if Setanta wanted more market share they might sell content cheaper to Boxer.

I know that the Setanta charges for (2) are or were a lot more reasonable than Sky Sports.

mike65

Excuse me for latching onto this thread, mention of Setanta caught my eye.

Does anyone know if they will provide Setanta Ireland as part of the basic Boxer package a la NTL/UPC analogue basic?

ShotgunPaddy

watty wrote: »

No, Generally Boxer will PAY the TV companies. Only rubbish Broadcasters will have to pay them or RTENL to get on.

FTA: The TV company pays for Broadcast.

Pay TV: The Pay TV company pays for Broadcast AND pays for Content.

BBC/ITV/C4 are very cheap.
Sky1 is expensive.
Disney More Expensive.
Sky Sports Very Expensive.

If Setanta decided to sell DIRECT to customers (1) rather than through Boxer they would get the sub money (or extra sub on top of Boxer Sub) and then pay Boxer and/or RTENL. If Boxer decided to include Setanta as an option (2), then they pay Setanta for each customer.

In scenario (1), Setanta has to pay extra for marketing and sales support. In scenario (2) they have less control but no extra overheads, so it could be more profitable. In (1) id Boxer didn't really want Setanta they would charge a lot more for Access. In (2) if Setanta wanted more market share they might sell content cheaper to Boxer.

I know that the Setanta charges for (2) are or were a lot more reasonable than Sky Sports.

The UK FTA(Free to Air Market) will be digital only after DSO(Digital Switch
Over) and the FTA providers such as the BBC, ITV and C4 formed a consortium called Freeview to agree a common standard for a digital receiver that can convert digital signals received via the standard analogue areal to an analogue signal that can be used with analogue TVs. Consumers with analogue TVs can purchase the FreeView receiver for a once off payment of £20 and watch the digitised versions of FTA channels. No new arial required.

There are six multiplex centers licensed to broadcast on the Freeview spectrum. Two are owned by the BBC. One is owned by ITV/CW. One is owned by SDN and two are owned by Arqiva. New channels that want to broadcast on the Freeview Spectrum have to bid for a slot on either the SDN or Arqiva multiplex and the going rate for a slot is up to £10 million. You could probably build your own multiplex for that money but there is not much point unless you have a licence to broadcast.

Why are Freeview slots so valuable? Well Freeview is now seen as a
subscription TV killer. People are dropping Sky for Freeview. Research has
shown that viewers spend 90% of their time watching the BBC and ITV channels so why pay for Sky unless you are a sports fanatic. The commercial lifestyle channels transmitted via Arqiva and SDN are invariably lifestyle channels that rely on viewers occasionally dropping off BBC and UTV to watch specialist programs. These channels are funded by advertising so the amount they are willing to pay is determined by the projected advertising revenue stream for the channel. A TV station like Channel 5 is willing to pay £10 million for access to the transmission network because they feel the channel will have global appeal. A specialist channel would pay a lot less.

Of course it's unfair that the BBC and existing commercial channels can access the transmission network via their own muxes for free while new commercial channels have to pay. That's life.

Boxer could make serous money if new commercial channels enter the Irish DTT market. It's also likely that a lot of the specialist channels will drop off
Sky on to Boxer after the Irish DSO as Boxer will be available in every home in
the country. DTT will win the battle for market share and BOXER have a monopoly on the commercial DTT transmission network. That's the real money spinner.

ShotgunPaddy

watty wrote: »

.

If Setanta decided to sell DIRECT to customers (1) rather than through Boxer they would get the sub money (or extra sub on top of Boxer Sub) and then pay Boxer and/or RTENL.

Setanta cannot broadcast direct to customers on DTT from their own mux because Boxer have the licence to the three commercial muxs. RTE have their own mux. Consider this. Pay TV(Sky,UPC) loses market share to DTT. Setenta want to move to DTT. They have no choice. It has to be Boxer and Boxer can screw them for every penny because they have a monopoly on DTT. In my view pay tv is dead. It will be like the internet. People will not pay for TV channels. The channels will have will have to rely on advertising.

TheDriver

Boxer won't screw them becasue channels like Setanta will make people want to use DTT instead of Sky etc if price is better

ShotgunPaddy

TheDriver wrote: »

Boxer won't screw them becasue channels like Setanta will make people want to use DTT instead of Sky etc if price is better[/QUOTE]

FTA DTT is free(bar a one off payment of 10 Euro for the tuner) so price is not a factor. One trick ponies like Setanta are in trouble. How many Irish people will pay a subscription just to watch the Premier League?

mike65

Er quite a few!

watty

UK DTT isn't free for BBC. They have to pay.

watty

ShotgunPaddy wrote: »

Setanta cannot broadcast direct to customers on DTT from their own mux because Boxer have the licence to the three commercial muxs. RTE have their own mux. Consider this. Pay TV(Sky,UPC) loses market share to DTT. Setenta want to move to DTT. They have no choice. It has to be Boxer and Boxer can screw them for every penny because they have a monopoly on DTT. In my view pay tv is dead. It will be like the internet. People will not pay for TV channels. The channels will have will have to rely on advertising.

Boxer can't "screw" Setanta. I think I didn't explain clearly.

Boxer will control access to the PayTV mux.
Option (1) Setanta do deal for bandwidth on a MUX that Boxer is renting from RTENL. Setanta market direct and you can get Setanta added to Boxer Card. Setanta pay for carriage and get sub direct. This is how the Porn Channels and Setanta work on Sky. The channels are "carried" by Sky / decryped by Sky card. In reality Sky don't own any Satellite transmitters, they Rent from Astra, like Boxer from RTENL.
They have to do this as only Sky card works in a Sky box. If you get Canal+ on Satellite, you need a different box and card.

Option (2) More likely: Boxer needs content not in basic Sky/NTL or at least needs as good Content as Sky / NTL (this is NOT possible on DTT, so they are doomed). Boxer offers to carry Setanta. Boxer has to pay whatever Setanta wants. In fact we know Setanta are not greedy, they will charge Boxer similar to NTL. Boxer decides how much to charge / which pack it's in.

In both scenarios the only person that can get "screwed" is the Consumer. If daft enough to pay for such a limited payTV system where most of the channels are free on Satellite.

ShotgunPaddy

watty wrote: »

UK DTT isn't free for BBC. They have to pay.

AFAIK the BBC broadcast off their own Multiplexes, 1 & B into the Freeview DTT spectrum.

What do they pay for?

channelsurfer

only people I can see taking boxers package are those that want sky sports for a cheaper price. ie. 9.99 basic pack plus 24.99 for sky sports. total for sky sports is 35euro compared to 50 for upc and 50.50 for sky's cheapest skysports pack. but then again upc and sky will offer a 9.99 pack as soon as boxer start theirs i bet.

ShotgunPaddy

watty wrote: »

Boxer can't "screw" Setanta. I think I didn't explain clearly.

Boxer will control access to the PayTV mux.
Option (1) Setanta do deal for bandwidth on a MUX that Boxer is renting from RTENL. Setanta market direct and you can get Setanta added to Boxer Card. Setanta pay for carriage and get sub direct. This is how the Porn Channels and Setanta work on Sky. The channels are "carried" by Sky / decryped by Sky card. In reality Sky don't own any Satellite transmitters, they Rent from Astra, like Boxer from RTENL.
They have to do this as only Sky card works in a Sky box. If you get Canal+ on Satellite, you need a different box and card.

Option (2) More likely: Boxer needs content not in basic Sky/NTL or at least needs as good Content as Sky / NTL (this is NOT possible on DTT, so they are doomed). Boxer offers to carry Setanta. Boxer has to pay whatever Setanta wants. In fact we know Setanta are not greedy, they will charge Boxer similar to NTL. Boxer decides how much to charge / which pack it's in.

In both scenarios the only person that can get "screwed" is the Consumer. If daft enough to pay for such a limited payTV system where most of the channels are free on Satellite.

Here is how it will play out.

RTE will broadcast it's channels and TV3 which we will loosely call PSB(Public
Service Broadcasting) channels on Multiplex 4 which is owned by RTE. If Boxer goes bust then RTE will not be effected.

Boxer are required by law to carry the existing Irish PSB channels on
Mutiplexes 1, 2 and 3. Boxer will pay BBC a small amount to carry some BBC
channels to enhance the appeal of DTT. Bandwidth restrictions mean that there are a limited number of channel slots. Boxer will negotiate with UTV and any other commercial channel that wants access to the Irish FTA DTT network. Channel slots may be actioned off to the highest bidder.

The analogue TV signal will be switched off in 2012. There will be a last
minute rush to buy FTA DTT tuners. Viewers that do not have pay TV will be
pleasantly surprised to find they can still get the Irish channels plus some of
the English channels plus some lifestyle channels that they may watch
occasionally. Those who have pay TV with Sky or Cable will hear about this
and wonder why they pay for channels they don't watch. Viewers will start to leave pay TV for FTA DTT and the number of households watching pay TV will drop.

The commercial channels hosted on Pay TV will follow the market and move to FTA DTT. The value of the channels on DTT will soar. Sky and Cable will have to change their business model in order to compete and that will mean dropping the subscription charge and showing most channels for free.

Setanta will stay with Sky until advertising revenue starts to drop as a result
of Sky's declining market share of households. Setanta will be forced to move
to DTT and bid for a slot against other channels that may have broader appeal. That is going to be expensive. The slots are auctioned by Boxer so Boxer wins.

paulm17781

Remember ITV Digital? It was what existed before Freeview and went bust as people weren't bothered paying. I suspect Boxer will go the same way. Why ditch Sky / UPC for less channels at the same cost? They're the one trick ponies, not Setanta.

ShotgunPaddy

paulm17781 wrote: »

Remember ITV Digital? It was what existed before Freeview and went bust as people weren't bothered paying. I suspect Boxer will go the same way. Why ditch Sky / UPC for less channels at the same cost? They're the one trick ponies, not Setanta.

The last slot on the Arqiva FTA DTT Mux went for £10 million after a bidding war between C4 and C5 so the chances Mux providers going bust are pretty slim. DTT is available in 70% of the UK and will have coverage in 98% after DSO. All the channels are free to consumers.

Boxer will take the same approach.

watty

Like Boxer, "ITV digital" didn't own the Muxes.

The important Irish channels (equivalent to BBC, ITV, C4 & Five) are not on Boxer's Mux. They are on the PSB mux, FTA
.
Boxer will be purely a platform operator like Sky. Like Sky they won't own a network or transmitters or set-boxes.

Unlike Sky, the most watched Irish channels will be Free on DTT. The most watched non-Irish channels are free on Satellite.

Boxer can only survive by buying decent content and seriously undercutting UPC & Sky.
But Sky and UPC can both easily do an identically priced better package and already have 75% of households. Those that don't have Sky or UPC in most cases have no intention of subscribing to ANY pay TV.

The 75% of existing Digital Subscribers doesn't count Freesat, Freeview, FTA and out of contract Sky Boxes.

Also UK is a 20x bigger advertising market, thus by Advertising revenue terms in a similar situation a bid here would be 0.5M not 10M.

ShotgunPaddy

Like Boxer, "ITV digital" didn't own the Muxes.

Boxer are the only Commercial Provider licensed to transmit feeds from the muxes into the DTT transmission system. So any new channel say "TV4" that want's to transmit into the DTT network will have to use Boxer.

The important Irish channels (equivalent to BBC, ITV, C4 & Five) are not on Boxer's Mux. They are on the PSB mux, FTA

Correct. But only the existing channels.

.
Boxer will be purely a platform operator like Sky. Like Sky they won't own a network or transmitters or set-boxes.

They own access to the network.

Unlike Sky, the most watched Irish channels will be Free on DTT.

Only existing channels. New channels will be on Boxer.

Boxer can only survive by buying decent content and seriously undercutting UPC & Sky.

Boxer will have to make their basic package of thirty channels free.

But Sky and UPC can both easily do an identically priced better package and already have 75% of households. Those that don't have Sky or UPC in most cases have no intention of subscribing to ANY pay TV.

If the basic Boxer package is free households will move off Sky and UPC.

Also UK is a 20x bigger advertising market, thus by Advertising revenue terms in a similar situation a bid here would be 0.5M not 10M.

0.5M * 20 channels is 10M per annum for Boxer.

[/QUOTE]

rlogue

I doubt if Setanta would leave Sky and its access to the UK and Irish markets to become an exclusive channel on a ROI only DTT operator.

Mossy Monk

ShotgunPaddy wrote: »

Boxer will have to make their basic package of thirty channels free.

I am not sure if you made a mistake when typing this but they wont be making 30 channels free.

ShotgunPaddy

rlogue wrote: »

I doubt if Setanta would leave Sky and its access to the UK and Irish markets to become an exclusive channel on a ROI only DTT operator.

If SKY lost market share then Setanta would have to go FTA DTT in both the UK and Ireland in order to reach it's customers. The companies that control access to DTT would clean up.

watty

20 channels won't pay Boxer 0.5M each to be carried.
You neglect Boxers cost for 3 transmitters per site x whole country plus feed. Easily 10M.

100K customers at 120 a year = 12M. Hardly breakeven before content costs, Transmission costs, network feed costs and all the other overheads. Twenty people and an office is over €1.5M p.a.

They need about 250k customers or else it will fold. There are maybe less than 200k households that don't have UPC, Sky or FTA satellite.

Then RTE/RTENL/another will do something with the Muxes. RTENL need Boxer to survive for about 5 years and then they have the gear they bought paid for. If Boxer limp on that long they can close them down or use them for HD. Unlike UK we don't have the free content to fill 4 muxes.

Free to Customers and charge content suppliers is not possible to get off the ground at all as business Model for DTT in Ireland.

For example it's against the BBC charter to market here. They can only respond to an Irish organisation paying them royalty to carry.

At most 3 or 4 channels would pay for carriage in Ireland, and only if Boxer failed (i.e. they can't get paid to provide content). The advertising potential won't cover it with the main Irish channels + BBC being the lion's share of market and already over 75% penetration either for free to Ireland or getting paid by Sky & UPC. (BBC pay Sky for EPG in UK, Sky pays BBC for EPG in Ireland).

mjsmyth

You gotta wonder did anyone who bid for the DTT actually sit down and work out how they were going to be successful.

If someone with only an aerial is already receiving RTE 1 & 2, TV3 and TG4, well... one would guess that they are relatively happy receiving just those 4 channels. Sure there are some who can't get Sky or Cable, but in the main, people who only have the 4 channels only have them because that is all they want (or at least that is the case with many I have met).

After DSO, they will still be able to get their 4 channels. Perhaps some, those who wanted Sky or Cable but could not get either due to some problem or other, will now be able to get pay tv, but I, like others here on the board, don't see how it can become a business success.

As for me, I moved from the 4 Irish channels to a FTA box and then sideways to a freesat box. I still get the 4 Irish channels through an aerial and am looking forward to getting their digital equivalents as soon as Sony update the Play TV software.

So.. where was I??? Oh yeah, Boxer... Should they even bother starting up?

mj

watty

If Setanta was free they would not have customers. It's a payTV channel. It relies on subscription, not adverts.

The % viewing time is too low for Adverts to sustain sports channels compared to the rights cost.

Sky and UPC are not going to lose any significant share at all to Boxer.

UPC = Over 120 channels, option for Broadband and phone. Can add HD anytime. Works if not possible to have dish or aerial.
Sky = Over 800 channels, HD. Most of the Boxer channels free even when you cancel. About 100% coverage if allowed a dish.
Boxer = Only 2 channels that are PayTV on Satellite in basic lineup. No BB or phone. No HD possible. Only 30 to 40 channels. Majority of people need outdoor aerial. Initially only 80% coverage. Best coverage is in areas with UPC cable. Less than 20% of market uncommitted and most of those won't want PayTV. About 1/2 of uncommitted customers are outside Boxer coverage!

mike65

Hmm, over the course of an afternoon, Irish DTT seems to have been killed off.

Unless it becomes the only way to receive the Irish 4 it doesn't stand a chance by the sound of it.

watty

mjsmyth wrote: »

You gotta wonder did anyone who bid for the DTT actually sit down and work out how they were going to be successful.

So.. where was I??? Oh yeah, Boxer... Should they even bother starting up?

mj

Well the LAST bid was in 2001 and "ItsTv" assumed they would be able to do Broadband (fail). It was felt "ItsTV" didn't have enough backing.

The licence has been up for grabs for 7 years...

Then just after BCI agree to find a sucker Boxer to award it to, the Financial System crashes and a major recession starts.

I wonder have they signed, will they sign?

mjsmyth

The 4 Irish channels will be on DTT regardless of whether Boxer lives or dies..

I would like to see Boxer live and give a good value reasonably priced quality service by the way.

mike65

Via roof top aerial I presume

channelsurfer

mike65 wrote: »

Hmm, over the course of an afternoon, Irish DTT seems to have been killed off.

Unless it becomes the only way to receive the Irish 4 it doesn't stand a chance by the sound of it.

Irish PAY DTT...... Irish DTT on the other hand will survive be it free only.

watty

There will eventually be Orachteris Channel (sp), Kids/eductation and RTE News 24 Free on DTT too no matter what happens on Boxer.

There will be free RET1, RTE2, TG4, TV3 and possibly eventually a 3rd free RTE and 2nd each free TG4 and TV3 channels.

pa990

Eventually ........

everything happens eventually

bk

ShotgunPaddy you make some interesting points, but on the whole I disagree with you.

You base your assumption that Boxer will be able to auction channel space for a high price on the UK DTT market which will be completely different to the Irish DTT market.

In the UK, DTT is free and mostly for that reason DTT has quickly become the number one TV platform in the country with 42% of all sets using DTT (another 28% still analogue and therefore likely to go DTT after switch off).

Because of it's massive and increasing market share, their is a big demand for space on DTT.

This situation doesn't exist in Ireland. Here Boxer plan on selling their 30 channel package for €23 per month. Because of this, pay DTT in Ireland will likely be far less popular then Freeview is in the UK. I'd be surprised if DTT reaches 10% market share.

The reason being 75% of people already get their TV from UPC and Sky and will therefore not be effected by the analogue switch off at all. Boxer are unlikely to be able to steal customers from UPC and Sky as they are already cheaper then Boxer. For instance while Boxer will have 30 channels for €23, UPC already has a 40 channel package for €20 and Sky has about 120 channels for €22, why would anyone leave UPC or Sky?

That just leaves the 25% of people without UPC or Sky, but these people have never bothered with pay TV, why would they start now? Some will just get a cheap box and receive only the free DTT channels and some will go freesat or join UPC or Sky (who will of course target these people with great deals and advertising).

So 10% of the market is about 100,000 homes, that is a very small advertising market, trust me no TV company will bother bidding on channel space for so few homes, in fact I expect Boxer will have to pay for the most of the channels they will carry.

The only way what you suggest could happen is if Boxer give all of their non sport and movie channels away for free, then they might capture a large enough market share and that they could then auction off channel space.

I'd love if they did this, it would bring some real, much needed competition to the Irish market, but it seems unlikely.

icdg

ShotgunPaddy wrote: »

Here is how it will play out.

RTE will broadcast it's channels and TV3 which we will loosely call PSB(Public
Service Broadcasting) channels on Multiplex 4 which is owned by RTE. If Boxer goes bust then RTE will not be effected.

Boxer are required by law to carry the existing Irish PSB channels on
Mutiplexes 1, 2 and 3. Boxer will pay BBC a small amount to carry some BBC
channels to enhance the appeal of DTT. Bandwidth restrictions mean that there are a limited number of channel slots. Boxer will negotiate with UTV and any other commercial channel that wants access to the Irish FTA DTT network. Channel slots may be actioned off to the highest bidder.

If that were Boxer's business model, that would be all well and good. Unfortunately that's not Boxer's business model, or least not the one they sold to the BCI. Boxer's business plan is predicated on being a 100% pay-TV provider - i.e. a wireless cable proposition. Just like Sky or UPC - but with a lot less channels.

Any FTA on DTT will not be provided by Boxer - it will be on the RTÉ mux and at best will be the FTA 4 + a handful of other channels - the Oireachtas Channel and IFB Channel (if they happen, not an altogether sure prospect in the current climate), RTE Three if it happens, and maybe 3e (could be issues there - I am almost certain some of 3e's rights are only cleared for pay-TV). At worst, it might only be the FTA Four. Neither proposition is likely to have viewers moving from Sky and UPC in their droves. And unlike in Sweden - where Boxer is practically state-owned and the Swedish Government had a big commercial interest in its success (and consequently pushed it very hard) - the Irish Government has no real reason to favour a Swedish-owned company (Boxer) for pay-TV over a British/Australian one (Sky) or indeed a Dutch/American one (UPC).

slegs

The future is combo Irish FTA DTT and UK FTA Satellite. This will be the Irish equivalent of Freeview not Boxer.

Irish Pay DTT is doomed - impossible for Boxer to compete with Sky/UPC to any serious level on channel choice and price. I'd be surprised if they even launch to be honest.

Zonda999

slegs wrote: »

The future is combo Irish FTA DTT and UK FTA Satellite. This will be the Irish equivalent of Freeview not Boxer.

Irish Pay DTT is doomed - impossible for Boxer to compete with Sky/UPC to any serious level on channel choice and price. I'd be surprised if they even launch to be honest.

Absolutely, there is a huge need in this country for a combo box that every joe soap can work and not have to worry about firmware updates.

ShotgunPaddy

Mossy Monk wrote: »

I am not sure if you made a mistake when typing this but they wont be making 30 channels free.

I just has a look at the Boxer packages and I see that the basic package is Euro 9.99 per month. I assumed that the basic package was a one off fee. The basic package on the Freeview service on the UK is free except for a one off payment of £10 for the set top box. I think that Boxer will have to make the basic service free if they want to get a reasonable share of the market.

ShotgunPaddy

slegs wrote: »

The future is combo Irish FTA DTT and UK FTA Satellite. This will be the Irish equivalent of Freeview not Boxer.

I reckon the best future combo is a reciprocal deal between RTE and BBC/ITV. RTE carry BBC/ITV on ROI FTA DTT and the BBC/ITV carry RTE on UK FTA DTT. RTE pays the carriage costs from UK advertising revenue. RTE carries BBC/ITV for free.

watty

That's not possible.

RTE upper Management won't even consider BBC radio on DAB despite lower management recomendation. It would make DAB a success and is VERY cheap. RTE practically had a heart attack when BBC TV went FTA on Satellite.

UK can't ever carry ordinary RTE on "mainland" FTA due to Rights Issue, a x20 bigger market at least. RTE couldn't even affor the extra payments to people involved in their own programs never mind imports.


The basic DTT service *IS* free and nothing to do with Boxer. Boxer has bid for a licence to operate a payTV service. Either they sell various subs, including a most basic one.

ShotgunPaddy

watty wrote: »

That's not possible.

RTE upper Management won't even consider BBC radio on DAB despite lower management recomendation. It would make DAB a success and is VERY cheap. RTE practically had a heart attack when BBC TV went FTA on Satellite.

UK can't ever carry ordinary RTE on "mainland" FTA due to Rights Issue, a x20 bigger market at least. RTE couldn't even affor the extra payments to people involved in their own programs never mind imports.

What are they scared of? BBC/ITV are already available on sat/cable in 70% of ROI households .

Programming rights are an issue. RTE would have to substitute indigenous programming for those shows that there are not licensed to use in the UK. That's easy. Just set up a UK digital feed and pipe it to the BBC mux. Show archival material instead of movies. The advertising revenue they could earn from the UK market could be huge. Do you know that some Welsh papers carry RTE TV listings for those areas that get the overspill analogue signal from Wicklow. So the market is bigger than just the ethnic irish community in Britain.

L1011

ShotgunPaddy wrote: »

AFAIK the BBC broadcast off their own Multiplexes, 1 & B into the Freeview DTT spectrum.

What do they pay for?

Operating a mux is very, very expensive...

watty

The BBC don't actually own the Muxes. They just have exclusive access. They have to rent the transmitters, pay for feed to site, pay for electricity and pay a proportion toward cost of feed, aerials and mast.

It's much more expensive than Satellite.

Elmo

SVT: - the Swedish PSB, was initally pay-TV on boxer however this practice has since stopped in Sweden. Surely boxer won't try the same thing here. It was one of the reasons why the Swedish where slow to go for digital over sat, cab and analogue terrestrial. Of course Sweden started broadcasting digitally in 1999, with several Swedish companies available on air, oddly their sat channels TV3 and Kanal 5 where pay-tv on BOXER but free on satellite. Their commerical PBS FTA channel TV4 is Pay on Boxer still AFAIK e.g. it would be like paying for TV3 transmissions here but not RTÉ or TG4.

Of course SVT is also FTA on satellite. ASO was supposed to happen in sweden in 07 anyone know if it happened?

Onikage

watty wrote: »

It's much more expensive than Satellite.

Presumably this only holds true for the UK?

It is surely cheaper for RTE to run irish dtt + encrypted satellite than to strip the rights-sensitive programming and go FTA on satellite only? Otherwise you would have to question why we are doing dtt at all.

watty

RTE would have to use non-Sky encryption and non-Sky box. Then it wopuld be cheaper.
But no-one would take risk of a competing pay-TV system to Sky.

Sky charge MORE for EPG than broadcast costs and more again for FTV card scheme & Encryption. (Neither of which costs them hardly anything).

Terrestrial broadcasting APART from rights issues and Encryption issues is a lot more expensive than Satellite.

Then also not everyone is allowed or wants a dish.

Onikage

Interesting stuff. I wonder how many of the people who are not allowed have dishes will be allowed have anything more than rabbit ears.

The Cush

Elmo wrote: »

SVT: - the Swedish PSB, was initally pay-TV on boxer however this practice has since stopped in Sweden. Surely boxer won't try the same thing here. It was one of the reasons why the Swedish where slow to go for digital over sat, cab and analogue terrestrial. Of course Sweden started broadcasting digitally in 1999, with several Swedish companies available on air, oddly their sat channels TV3 and Kanal 5 where pay-tv on BOXER but free on satellite. Their commerical PBS FTA channel TV4 is Pay on Boxer still AFAIK e.g. it would be like paying for TV3 transmissions here but not RTÉ or TG4.

Of course SVT is also FTA on satellite. ASO was supposed to happen in sweden in 07 anyone know if it happened?

Sweden completed digital switchover on October 15, 2007 (see attached), also TV4 is FTA in Sweden.
The Irish PSB channels will be FTA and broadcast on RTE's FTA multiplex which has nothing to do with Boxer who won the tender for the 3 commercial multiplexes.