Playing live as a guitarist

Pauleeeeeeee

Hypothetically(ish) speaking, if you're in a band who's broke, touring and the majority of the time has to reply on the amps provided at venues or by people in other bands who are kind enough to lend them to you...what do you do?

I mean, my lovely Vox amp here produces very nice overdrives/distortions which I'd love to bring with me but I know that the majority of the time I'm gonna have to be settling with a fairly ****ty, solid state Marshall combo.

So what pedals would yiz lads consider 'essential' in this situation to help compensate. Lets also say the type of music being played is indie/rock

unclebill98

Why don't you just bring your amp with you? Problem solved.

Pauleeeeeeee

:rolleyes:

Like I said...hypothetical. It's just not plausable to some bands.

Kenny_D

Get yourself a podxt live and a power block and go straight to the desk. One of the lads on here gigs like that and has a good sound. Your sound will always be consistent then. Give "Thomas from Presence" on here a shout for more info

Gaspode

If you dont have gear, dont gig. Relying on someone elses gear is just not on, and at some stage is going to cause a major headache!

Pauleeeeeeee

GStormcrow wrote: »

Get yourself a podxt live and a power block and go straight to the desk. One of the lads on here gigs like that and has a good sound.

That's something I've thought of.
I'm sure a lot of the purest will say "you can beat a good valve" and that individual pedals and rack effects piss all over stuff like the podxt live and...I'm sure if you have a live set up and sound team like u2 they probably do.

In a situation like playin in the likes of Eamon Dorans or the Button Factory would the general consensus be that the crowd won't be able to tell the difference?

CianRyan

I go to gigs in smalls venues, dorans, wheelans the boom boom room, the lower deck, ect... alot and when i hear some one using some ropey gear, you really can hear it quite obviously.

This could be because i am a snob when it comes to tone and i pick out everything, and as soon as a guitar starts playing, i key into that souly for about 5 minutes looking for flaws...
But hey, i am one of a large breath!

If you dont have gear, dont gear.
If you have gear and it seems difficult to transport, stop being lazy.

My 2cents anyway.

Pauleeeeeeee

My. Dear. God.

I have gear. I use it. I'm not lazy. I'm not looking for a discussion on the ethics of using or presuming that a guitarist should be able to use someone else's gear at a venue. :rolleyes: No one should expect that. I certainly don't.

I'd be interested on how well the likes of a podxt live would perform though.

Eoin Madsen

Pauleeeeeeee wrote: »

In a situation like playin in the likes of Eamon Dorans or the Button Factory would the general consensus be that the crowd won't be able to tell the difference?

No, **** tone is cumulative rather than just being dependent on the weakest component. You'll always sound bad in Dorans because it's a crap venue, but there's still a difference between sounding bad and sounding godawful. Just because the crowd don't know why it sounds like crap, it doesn't mean that they won't realise it sounds like crap.

A Pod is better than some cheap solidstate marshall or whatever, but modelling is still way off really sounding like what it's trying to sound like. If you can get your tone from a Pod, then play with a Pod. If you get your tone through your Vox, then bring your Vox. Compromise is for people who suck. :pac:

CianRyan

Eoin Madsen wrote: »

Compromise is for people who suck. :pac:

:pac:

Demeyes

There are times when you can't help the about the amp your playing through. The worst amp I'ver ever had to gig through was a 10watt marshall MG. We were playing a competition in sligo and were told that decent amps wóuld be provided. Thats what we got.
As for carrying pedals, maybe a higher end multi effect would be the best bet. You can program in your sound and make a few quick tweaks at the gig to suit the setup you've been provided with.

Eoin Madsen

Demeyes wrote: »

There are times when you can't help the about the amp your playing through.

That only happens if you have your priorities all wrong. What's the use of food and a dry place to sleep if you don't have great tone?

11811

I've played gigs where the guitarists have been using real crappy amps but seem to be able to get the best outta them, sometime you have to use other bands gear, the only problem with this really is that if its an amp you're unfamiliar with you probably will get a poor tone regardless of how good an amp it is. Knowing what you have to play with is very important....
Incidentally I've no gear at the moment and gig away, reason being my rigs knackered and Im skint!
Altho I do get away with it playing bass!

CianRyan

BASS PLAYERS DONT NEED GOOD TONE! >.<

I can think of two bassists that have had good tone to me.

spoonbadger

Eoin Madsen wrote: »

That only happens if you have your priorities all wrong. What's the use of food and a dry place to sleep if you don't have great tone?

Agreed.

Pauleeeeeeee wrote: »

Like I said...hypothetical. It's just not plausable to some bands.

Well then those bands deserve to be playing through MGs . You can get your guitar to the gig, so put a bit more thought into it and you'll find a way to bring your amp too!!.

You say you have a nice vox?.I'm guessing something like an AC30?.Whats the point in having a kickass amp if it sits in your bedroom all day. Lonely. Crying out for someone to fiddle it's knobs in public :pac:.

CianRyan

spoonbadger wrote: »

Crying out for someone to fiddle it's knobs in public :pac:.

I know i am!:pac:









I'll get my coat.

11811

CianRyan wrote: »

BASS PLAYERS DONT NEED GOOD TONE! >.<

I can think of two bassists that have had good tone to me.

Er did I say that bassists don't need or I don't get good tone? Usually do, pretty much down to a good DI and good sounding bass.

CianRyan

Cuddleworthy wrote: »

Er did I say that bassists don't need or I don't get good tone? Usually do, pretty much down to a good DI and good sounding bass.

Ok well, they do need a nice tone.

Interesting would have been a better word for it i think.

I like fuzzy bass, but not enough people use distortion pedals with bass's's's's's's's.

11811

CianRyan wrote: »

Ok well, they do need a nice tone.

Interesting would have been a better word for it i think.

I like fuzzy bass, but not enough people use distortion pedals with bass's's's's's's's.

Ah yeah of course, not using an amp isnt ideal but you get a fairly good sound using a nice DI - which is good when your amp is feiced!

Distorted bass is the biz alright, hopefully getting a new od pedal for myself soon for some fuzzy action!

Dord

CianRyan wrote: »

BASS PLAYERS DONT NEED GOOD TONE! >.<

I can think of two bassists that have had good tone to me.

Blasphemy! Get outta that garden! :mad:

To the OP, get a smaller amp that will still manage gigs. 20w~ tube should be plenty, any more and you can mike it anyways.

Pauleeeeeeee

Dord, was havin' a look at orange amps tiny terror combo. Would that do the trick? Looks pretty tastey. One thing is though, I can't tell if it comes with a foot switch or what?

Dord

Yeah you could probably get away with it.

It doesn't come with a footswitch, that has to be ordered seperately.

Kenny_D

And the Tiny wont do clean sounds either

-=al=-

podxt is a great way, it will be ur patches and your sound through and kinda system, powerblock and pod into the desk is fine also, or even pod infront of any amp... what i do wen i cant be arsed bringing gear

Paolo_M

Even though I am a snob tone-wise I must admit that some of the modellers I've heard lately are pretty convincing and I think I would struggle picking out the difference on a recording.
Playing live is different though. To me I haven't heard anything sound as good as a quality valve amp through a quality speaker cab.
Granted; sh*te/badly set up valve amp through quality speaker cab = sh*te (tried it), quality valve amp through ****ty speaker cab or lined out via attenuator to PA = sh*te (also tried it). It think a lot of the majic mojo is in how the speaker interacts with the power valves.
The other major factor is how the amp reacts with you, the guitarist. You may think I'm mad but standing infront of a cranked JCM/JMP half stack, AC30, 5150 etc. influences me, my sound and my playing in a positive fashion. I've yet to have an experience like that with a modeller or FX pedal through an average amp. This year I will be setting myself up with an 18 Watt head (a lot lighter than a 100 Watt) and a 2 X 12 instead of the 1960A to make giggin easier on my poor back, but wont be resorting to modellers, yet anyway.
For me; I would beg, steal, borrow, busk, whore, donate semen/organs etc. until I could either get my own gear or rent some decent gear in wherever I was playing.

Yakult

Pauleeeeeeee wrote: »

Dord, was havin' a look at orange amps tiny terror combo. Would that do the trick? Looks pretty tastey. One thing is though, I can't tell if it comes with a foot switch or what?

Its a brilliant amp.

No it doesnt, but use your volume knob on your guitar. Or just get a od pedal.

mattfender

I always bring my own rig to gigs no matter what i just love my own tone too much. Its your own right like if the other bands have a problem then screw em!

Pauleeeeeeee

R_H_C_P wrote: »

No it doesnt, but use your volume knob on your guitar. Or just get a od pedal.

See I don't get this. Why would a person use go to the bother of getting an amp that has such great valve overdrive/distortion and then just use an overdrive pedal?

spoonbadger

Pauleeeeeeee wrote: »

See I don't get this. Why would a person use go to the bother of getting an amp that has such great valve overdrive/distortion and then just use an overdrive pedal?

I used to think this way too. But some amps, great though they may be, just dont get enough overdrive, or dont get the right overdrive.

I bought my amp knowing that it wouldn't do anything past moderate crunch, and not without cranking the volume. I'm going to get a transparent overdrive,so that i can get the extra oomph i need for some songs. Something that wont colour my amp's tone. That way, i still have the amp's own light overdrive, it's brilliant cleans and the pedal for when i need it.

Some amps just dont have good overdrive characteristics, but have good cleans. An OD pedal is a great way to compromise without buying an extra amp :eek:.

boycey

Paolo_M wrote: »

The other major factor is how the amp reacts with you, the guitarist. You may think I'm mad but standing infront of a cranked JCM/JMP half stack, AC30, 5150 etc. influences me, my sound and my playing in a positive fashion. I've yet to have an experience like that with a modeller or FX pedal through an average amp. quote]

I'd agree with that 100% Paolo. Now I've heard ****ty modellers, average ones and great ones BUT like Paolo said when you get a valve amp to its sweet spot (which does'nt always mean its gotta be CRANKED to 11) then the fun starts. Lovely dynamics, lovely harmonic feedback, *girls throwing their knickers at you, all that good stuff. It just makes you want to stand there and play big fat riffs and singing lead lines. Thats what puts a big cheesy grin on most guitarists faces.

Disclaimer:
*knicker throwing may be a figment of boycey's imagination.

-=al=-

i think it is

yeah u cant beat ur own gear, but sometimes its jsut hassle and awkward, 9 times outa 10 ill bring my gear but its hassle... but then again worth it wen u get goin

Rigsby

CianRyan wrote: »

BASS PLAYERS DONT NEED GOOD TONE! >.<

Try saying that over on the "Talk Bass" forum and you'd be lynched !!

-=al=-

arent bass players just failed guitarists

darrenw5094

Ask Billy Sheehan........he would know.

CianRyan

-=al=- wrote: »

arent bass players just failed guitarists

Thank you!:rolleyes:

Rigsby

-=al=- wrote: »

arent bass players just failed guitarists

No! A guitarist (failed or otherwise) would never make a bass player !!

Why ? Because they 'd miss being out in front showing off and strutting their stuff, while the bassist and drummer hold the whole shabang together.

-=al=-

apart from billy sheehan of corse

CianRyan

Rigsby wrote: »

No! A guitarist (failed or otherwise) would never make a bass player !!

Why ? Because they 'd miss being out in front showing off and strutting their stuff, while the bassist and drummer hold the whole shabang together.

Ah here, i stopped playing bass, for guitar because i felt bass wasn't challenging enough for me.


(spelling on the other hand, is.)

red_ice

CianRyan wrote: »

Ok well, they do need a nice tone.

Interesting would have been a better word for it i think.

I like fuzzy bass, but not enough people use distortion pedals with bass's's's's's's's.

thats a stupid reply. For indy music atm its all about bass and lead guitar. Rythem guitar doesnt need to shine if anything. The fact you say a member of your band doenst need to have a good sound shows how much your band cares about your sound.

As far as your comment about a crappy 'marshall combo' any solid state is crap. If your playing without tubes and think you have a tone you need your ears syringed.

-=al=- wrote: »

arent bass players just failed guitarists

No they just dont need to **** their guitar on stage with an ear pearcingly high tone in order to feel good about them selves

Its really funny actually how bass players look at guitarists. Guitarists think they control the song, rythem and flow of a song. Bless :rolleyes:

Its all about bass!

CianRyan

red_ice wrote: »

thats a stupid reply. For indy music atm its all about bass and lead guitar. Rythem guitar doesnt need to shine if anything. The fact you say a member of your band doenst need to have a good sound shows how much your band cares about your sound.

As far as your comment about a crappy 'marshall combo' any solid state is crap. If your playing without tubes and think you have a tone you need your ears syringed.

Ah now, thats a bit harsh.
I mean god knows this thread has went far off topic, so whats wrong with having a joke in it?

And I'm pretty sure i said nothing about a marshall combo?
Even if i did, whats to say that, because its a combo its not a valve amp?
There are plenty of great valve combos around.
I myself use a valve head and have a great tone, as done my bassist.
I'm not sure what gear he's using, but what ever it is it sounds well nice.
We don't have a rythem guitarist, just me!
We play oldschool hardcore and heavy metal, the kinda stuff that makes most indiecindies cry.


And seriously, next time you're going to poke personal insults at me or anyone else, PRIVATE MESSAGE!

Its a much better way of dealing with things.
Thanks.

-=al=-

Rhythm!

its the longest word in the english language with without vowels :pac: + ive nothing against bassist i was joking, i even own one myself, but i hate the way guitar players play bass so i dont play it much

CianRyan

Damn my spelling!

Ah sure, at the end of the day, they are both... eh... well they're not both guitars, and i know i'd be murdered if i said they were. :pac:

They are both lovely, lets say that.

CianRyan

And i didnt say anything about a marshall combo!
I KNEW IT! :pac:

North_West_Art

I am playing 20 years. I play in a functions band, plus I do session in jazz and folk gigs. I play a Gibson 335, looks like a jazz guitar, f-holes etc. I also play a fretless bass, purely for its tone. The amps I use vary, the one I use at the moment is a Peavy 100w transistor, its a work horse, not big money. I DI it through the PA via the desk. Most of the time I use straight sound through the amp, no effects, just 2/3 reverb on the amp, and a bit of reverb from the desk. I use guage 10 Elixer strings. We play straight up Stones numbers, plus you name it. I find that any effects I have tried, (bar the pod) have taken away from the natural sound of the guitar. The pod is very good, but I find that it doesnt project the sound and effect far enough, and you end up deafening yourself at the back line. Some day at rehersal, plug in and go 30 metres or so out the front with your normal sound (un-processed), turn yourself up 1/2 way on the guitar volume, and see how you sound with the whole band playing. Then try turning up for bits of lead without the effects. Then try it with the effects on. You will get an idea of how you sound from the punters perspective.
My other bit of advice is, always wear ear-plugs. Get the ones that eliminate the high frequency (30 euro). Its no joke when you realise that your hearing has been damaged from excessive volume. Hearing impairment is irreversible, and volume on-stage turns into a competition amongst band members...and to be honest, most of the time, a crowd wont give 2 fecs what you play after a half an hour. P.S. get an amp that you can carry with one hand

Paolo_M

red_ice wrote: »

As far as your comment about a crappy 'marshall combo' any solid state is crap. If your playing without tubes and think you have a tone you need your ears syringed.

That's a bit of an unfounded, sweeping statement isn't it?
There are many examples of great sounding solid state amps, Marshall MOSFET, Roland JC120, some of the Randalls etc.

As it's cheaper for manufacturers to build crappy, cheap transistor amps, as opposed to crappy, cheap valve amps, almost every amp manufacturers' low end, "budget" amps are transistor/IC based. As a result solid state, as a audio technology, has received a bad name over the years. That and the fact that in the early days, power transistors had a nasty habit of melting, going on fire and doing all kinds of weird and wonderful things except amplifying the damn signal!! :pac:

A lot of the natural qualities of valve technology, that make them sound great in audio applications (the same qualities that make them poor for anything else!!), has to be designed into solid state audio circuitry. The additional design and componant cost to do this, as well as public perception, means that most manufacturers simply choose to use tried and tested valve circuitry for their higher end amps.

As a result I would agree that the vast majority of high end amps are valve based and the vast majority of transistor amps tend to be low grade sh*te, but I don't think it's fair to rubbish an entire technology because of that. (I'm starting out design work on, what I hope will be a great sounding, solid state amp so it's a touchy subject...)

BTW, no-ones' opinion is stupid, just some peoples' opinions are less equal than others'!!

PS: What was this thread about again?!?

Rigsby

CianRyan wrote: »

Ah here, i stopped playing bass, for guitar because i felt bass wasn't challenging enough for me.

That's fair enough. Bass can be as challenging or as simple as you want to make it, just like any other instrument. It also depends on the type of music you are playing ( music that needs only roots and fifths ect ). Therefore it's probably the music being played that's not challanging. Try listening to some "Steely Dan" music and see if the bass work is not challanging.


To CianRyan and Al : No offence taken here guys ! I'm enjoying the banter.

Rigsby

CianRyan wrote: »

BASS PLAYERS DONT NEED GOOD TONE! >.<

BTW, this is how and where the thread went "off topic ".

CianRyan

Rigsby wrote: »

That's fair enough. Bass can be as challenging or as simple as you want to make it, just like any other instrument. It also depends on the type of music you are playing ( music that needs only roots and fifths ect ). Therefore it's probably the music being played that's not challanging. Try listening to some "Steely Dan" music and see if the bass work is not challanging.


To CianRyan and Al : No offence taken here guys ! I'm enjoying the banter.

I've actually been thinking of buying a nice, midrange bass set up to try some more technical stuff on.
At the time of the switch i wasa little greenday/blink182 head(shame), so you can see why i needed something more difficult! haha

Rigsby wrote: »

BTW, this is how and where the thread went "off topic ".

Glad i could help the fun!:pac::p

Rigsby

CianRyan wrote: »

At the time of the switch i wasa little greenday/blink182 head(shame), so you can see why i needed something more difficult! haha

A ha !!! I do indeed see...


Here's something you may like to try on that new bass when you get it....... one of my favourite Steely Dan numbers. They also had some great guitarists down the years too.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsiG6WiHHPQ&feature=related

yevveh

Cuddleworthy wrote: »

Distorted bass is the biz alright, hopefully getting a new od pedal for myself soon for some fuzzy action!

Do try out a Metal Muff before you make your choice, I use and love it. Kick on the boost and it sounds great (without the boost, it sounds pretty cack, at least on bass). Whenever I play with it I usually use a pick right down near the bridge... sounds so good

red_ice

CianRyan wrote: »

Ah now, thats a bit harsh.
I mean god knows this thread has went far off topic, so whats wrong with having a joke in it?

Nothing wrong with a joke, the OP wanted a serious conversation, as he said a few times, but if your going to make a joke of this be prepared for some people to take your comments a little more seriously than others because your comment is something that i've heard a number of times off of 'musicians'. Didnt realise that you'de be that sensitive, sorry.

CianRyan wrote: »

And I'm pretty sure i said nothing about a marshall combo?
Even if i did, whats to say that, because its a combo its not a valve amp?
There are plenty of great valve combos around.
I myself use a valve head and have a great tone, as done my bassist.
I'm not sure what gear he's using, but what ever it is it sounds well nice.
We don't have a rythem guitarist, just me!
We play oldschool hardcore and heavy metal, the kinda stuff that makes most indiecindies cry.

Ahh someone said something about a marshall combo, i thought it was you - too lazy to double check.

CianRyan wrote: »

And seriously, next time you're going to poke personal insults at me or anyone else, PRIVATE MESSAGE!

Thanks cian, i can see your many years on theses forums have given you insight as to how sensitive everyone on boards is. Ill take note, and reference it before i make a post in future.

As i said, your comment was something i've heard before. And i actually dont see where i made a personal insult in my reply.. I said i thought your comment was stupid, i pointed that out, its not an insult to have someones opinion on a subject. If anything, i found your post about bass players not needing a tone insulting, hows about that? I think in saying that if you feel a member of your band doenst need to worry about tone shows others that you dont care about your bands sound is a just comment. Theres no argument there, thats obvious. The 'ears syringed' comment was a generalization.

Paolo_M wrote: »

That's a bit of an unfounded, sweeping statement isn't it?
There are many examples of great sounding solid state amps, Marshall MOSFET, Roland JC120, some of the Randalls etc.

Of course it was, but as you say yourself the majority of SS amps. Majority rules!

Paolo_M wrote: »

As a result I would agree that the vast majority of high end amps are valve based and the vast majority of transistor amps tend to be low grade sh*te, but I don't think it's fair to rubbish an entire technology because of that. (I'm starting out design work on, what I hope will be a great sounding, solid state amp so it's a touchy subject...)

Sweet, good luck with it.

Paolo_M wrote: »

BTW, no-ones' opinion is stupid, just some peoples' opinions are less equal than others'!!

PS: What was this thread about again?!?

People who disagree with me while im 9 days of the ciggies are stupid.. or brave.. :pac:

Who cares what it was about, its evolved into a tonal conversation. Be grateful it hasnt spawned a 'yer ma' comment yet.