Overtaking Lane/Middle Lane Hoggers - How to get the message across?

kdouglas

So I drove Dublin -> Dundalk -> Newbridge yesterday, and also drive Dublin -> Newbridge several times a week (usually late in the evening when there is little traffic) and I got to thinking a bit recently about an idea.

As with many other posters here, the middle lane and overtaking lane hoggers get on my nerves and although the occasional indicator/flash of headlights works for some/most of the overtaking lane hoggers, it seems like driver's need to be educated on what they're doing wrong.

(Middle lane drivers really frustrate me, what's wrong with the perfectly good empty lane to your left??!? especially late at night when there are very few other vehicles on the road)

It's a basic principle of the rules of the road, you keep left. And I believe lack of driver education is the root cause of this problem.

So, I got to thinking, would it work if someone started a website aimed at educating drivers on such things as lane positioning on motorways and other similar common pet peeves/bad habits.

The website would need to be promoted well to reach a wide enough audience of course, and I thought bumper stickers with the website address would be an effective way to get the message out to the right audience. (plenty of other drivers would see them)

Just an idea I had, and was wondering if anyone else had any other possibly effective ways of educating drivers on correct motorway discipline?


(Note: I'm in no way saying I myself am a perfect driver, we all have our downfalls, this is just one major thing that annoys me Also, not meaning this thread to turn into a debate/moan thread about such activities, looking for discussion on ways to solve the problem)

bazzachazza

Just back from New York and drove out to Woodbury common along the route I took there were large signs that said "KEEP TO THE RIGHT OVERTAKE ON LEFT ONLY"

I think that would be a much better and more direct way of getting the message over to them.

Obviously signs would need to be reversed for us before anyone is smart and points it out.

Cookie_Monster

Large motorway signs stating such. Replace those useless "X number of people killed on the roads in Wicklow" signs with these and run TV advertising to enforce it further.
Ideally bring in some form of motoring class into transition year to teach kids all these things right from the start of their driving career.



That or Bond-esque machine guns behind the headlights:D

Drummerboy08

I vote for the machine guns....

B11gt00e

OP - this is one of the most shocking and dangerous aspects of driving on Irish roads... the slow-nelly fast lane hoggers.... f*ckin' eejits... and I won't pass on the left as it is breaking the law, bu often see fellas flying up the fast lane, drifting left, and over-taking me and the 'HOG' on the inside.

Not only is the eejit causing other people to break the law... if you look at youtube and find videos about guys street-racing their cars in Moscow... you will see that it is a fast in and out of lane shimmy that often causes a car to go out of control at high speeds.

These eejits are far more dangerous than someone who is driving at whatever speed they wish to do on such lovely tar-mac strips as the M1 - often driving some of the amazing motors that they've been taxed through the nose for the pleasure to own in this little island of ours.


They need to be educated...but they need to start punishing them too... high speed, with highly engineered automobile on a heavily engineered strip of motorway in this day and age is not really dangerous when you have a responsible driver at the wheel... but coming around a high speed corner to find some kn0b-jockey crawling in the fast lane ahead of you is dangerous.

DRIVING IS A SPATIAL EXPERIENCE. ie., what's happening around you is important... not just ahead of you as many drivers seem to think... they don't even have their rear view mirrors adjusted accordingly.

Good post OP!

mumblin deaf ro

I think part of the problem is that learners have no lessons/training on motorway driving as they're forbidden to drive on them until they have a licence. While it's in the theory test/rules of the road, it doesn't become part of their practical driving instruction.

There's a good chapter in Roadcraft about motorway driving, which would be useful for anyone to read.

Alun

mumblin deaf ro wrote: »

I think part of the problem is that learners have no lessons/training on motorway driving as they're forbidden to drive on them until they have a licence. While it's in the theory test/rules of the road, it doesn't become part of their practical driving instruction.

The same rules apply on dual carriageways where they are allowed to be though.

onemorechance

OMG! I drove on the Dublin - Naas road yesterday and I could not believe it! What is with this cruising in the middle lane! I was able to overtake most cars while doing only 100kmph in the inside lane! All the slow traffic was cruising in the middle lane! It was unreal! It was even more unreal to get dirty looks off people who didn't like being overtaken on the inside! But I really was only doing 100kmph! Also, when driving on the M7 yesterday evening, the lack of rear fog lights being used was crazy! There was bad fog last night and the amount of cars that had front fogs on only was ridiculous! I'm sure these front fog lights are on day and night, sun and rain!

colm_mcm

It's easy. flash your lights, make a fuss. at least make them see that what they're doing is wrong. Overtaking on the inside not only compounds the problem (by both making them afraid to pull into the left lane and making them think what they're doing is ok) nut is also illegal.

mairtinomarta

kdouglas wrote: »

So, I got to thinking, would it work if someone started a website aimed at educating drivers on such things as lane positioning on motorways and other similar common pet peeves/bad habits.

The website would need to be promoted well to reach a wide enough audience of course, and I thought bumper stickers with the website address would be an effective way to get the message out to the right audience. (plenty of other drivers would see them)

Just an idea I had, and was wondering if anyone else had any other possibly effective ways of educating drivers on correct motorway discipline?

No worries, the government are way ahead of ya!

It's here http://www.rsa.ie

Try doing a search on it, but keep it simple, ya wouldn't want to break it. Maybe try the word "safe".

Or since your interest is in motorways, try and search for "motorway".

This website is full of useful info (I'm sure it is, well I'm pretty sure it is, I just can't find it . . . )

There is a link to another (RSA) website http://www.DrivingTest.ie

That's gotta be full of useful tips .. .. maybe not but another link, this should definetly be what you want, a link to the driver theory test website http://www.dtts.ie

Close, there is a discount availabe on the cd-rom, only E30 and that includes delivery! Excellent. Maybe a download would be handier .. .. Sorry no can do, but laser card can now be used to book the test! Cool.

Better end rant now.

McSpud

Drove the M8 northbound yesterday & only found one right lane hogger on the at that stage fairly busy Motorway. Empty left lane for almost the entire length of the Naas Road again with fairly busy traffic.

colm_mcm

McSpud wrote: »

Drove the M8 northbound yesterday & only found one right lane hogger on the at that stage fairly busy Motorway. Empty left lane for almost the entire length of the Naas Road again with fairly busy traffic.

what did you do?

Arathorn

onemorechance wrote: »

OMG! I drove on the Dublin - Naas road yesterday and I could not believe it! What is with this cruising in the middle lane! I was able to overtake most cars while doing only 100kmph in the inside lane! All the slow traffic was cruising in the middle lane! It was unreal! It was even more unreal to get dirty looks off people who didn't like being overtaken on the inside! But I really was only doing 100kmph! Also, when driving on the M7 yesterday evening, the lack of rear fog lights being used was crazy! There was bad fog last night and the amount of cars that had front fogs on only was ridiculous! I'm sure these front fog lights are on day and night, sun and rain!

Just curious, if they were in the middle lane why didnt you overtake in the right lane ? Am I missing something.

The signs on this road seem to suggest that you should only be in this lane if you are turning off to the destination on the overhead sign. Not saying its right just that can be the impression

mikemac

Arathorn wrote: »

The signs on this road seem to suggest that you should only be in this lane if you are turning off to the destination on the overhead sign. Not saying its right just that can be the impression

Spot on! I'll openly admit I was a middle lane hogger the first time I drove the naas road southbound.
Because it seemed to me and to plently of others that the left lane was for exits and I didn't want to go down some exit so I stayed in the middle.

Cool Mo D

Arathorn wrote: »

Just curious, if they were in the middle lane why didnt you overtake in the right lane ? Am I missing something.

The signs on this road seem to suggest that you should only be in this lane if you are turning off to the destination on the overhead sign. Not saying its right just that can be the impression

The signs have been changed in the last few weeks - doesn't seem to have made a difference.

This is what the new ones look like.

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?album=268&pos=7

JackFrosty

You cant teach an old dog new tricks. Some people just dont get the rules of the road.
Teach school kids the rules of the road and at least all of them who become new drivers will have the basics of it.
Signposts stating keep to left lane unless over taking might help!
I like to give my horn a good old blast when i pass an asshole driver.

Owen

The problem is that we're too polite as drivers. We sit behind these people hoping they'll check their mirrors and move.

Try that in any other country in Europe and watch the reaction, you're flashed, beeped at, leered at, and even 'flipped the bird' when overtaken. And quite rightly IMHO.

A few weeks ago I was on the N7 in the morning heading towards Naas.

The outside lane was slowed to 50km. The cause?

Someone who was obviously sick of being tailgated decided to slow right down to "teach a lesson" to the guy behind. The guy behind was flashing his lights and sitting on the horn while following close behind. Everyone else was undertaking them

Really childish stuff.

milltown

Arathorn wrote: »

Just curious, if they were in the middle lane why didnt you overtake in the right lane ? Am I missing something.

I do it myself reasonably often for two main reasons.

1. To demonstrate that the left lane isn't actually booby trapped and is safe to use for travelling at the speed they desire, and more.

2. Safety rates higher on my list of concerns than legality when driving, so I'll stay in the lane I'm in rather than moving accross two lanes twice to overtake somebody who is also going about their driving in the wrong lane.

If/when I get pulled for it I'll hope for a Garda who'll listen to my reasoned explanation. If I'm unlucky I'll take the rap.

stratos

I am glad to see this thread, as I use the m50 and use the the left lane to undertake about 200 cars most days. I overtake where I can even though it means sweeping across two lanes and then back again.

I actually began to doubt myself and believe the centre lane was the driving lane, and the left lane was for joining exiting.

These middle lane hoggers are very dangerous.

Another dangerous practice is lane changing without indicating. With only two lanes you can get away with it. But people must understand that two cars in different lanes may change to the middle lane at the same time. I have seen two almost collisions because of this.

The strange thing I find is that the U.K. motorways are a ballet to drive on everyone seems to know what they are doing. yet a lot of the offenders on the M50 are English cars.

Anyway I am confident this will never be sorted out. The obvious suggestion would be signs.

onemorechance

Arathorn wrote: »

Just curious, if they were in the middle lane why didnt you overtake in the right lane ? Am I missing something.

The signs on this road seem to suggest that you should only be in this lane if you are turning off to the destination on the overhead sign. Not saying its right just that can be the impression

Because I wanted to cruise along at 100kmph, which I noticed would be achieveable in the inside lane, instead of moving out to the outside to overtake each car that was cruising in the middle lane, having to up my speed to spend mimimum time overtaking, reducing speed once back in middle lane, oh no, another car cruising, out again.

I have driven many miles in Germany on three lane roads. 3 very distinct speeds going on in each lane, 80kmph to 100kmph on inside lane, 100kmph to 140kmph in middle lane and 140kmph + in outside lane. Very effective.

On the Irish road in question, those middle lane hoggers, driving uniformly at around 80kmph with usually safe / good distances between could cruise along fine in the inside lane. I could cruise along fine at 100kmph in the middle lane while there were slower cars on the inside, keeping plenty of space between me and car in front in case a car on inside needs to move out etc. and anyone wishing to do over 100kmph, could over take me on the outside lane.

milltown

Was up to Newry yesterday and I must say the lane discipline on the M1 seems to be much, much better than the M50, N/M7 and N/M4.

Apart from the odd time when the right hand lane jammed up a bit due a truck travelling at 95kph overtaking a truck doing 94kph, people were driving on the left and overtaking on the right and pulling back in.

The only bit that made me wonder was, on a deserted stretch I came up behind a young lad in a Mitsubishi Colt in the right hand lane. To be fair he was awake enough to move straight over after one brief flash of the lights and on I went. When I checked my mirror to pull back into the left lane he had moved back into the right lane! We were the only two cars on that stretch of road for as far as I could see in either direction.

Berty

Middle lane hoggers have no idea that they are in the wrong. They do not watch the TV ads, read the signs and certainly do not read this forum.

I gave up a long time ago on the Nass road. Its only the Naas road that I see this and I just stay in the left lane and if I pass a car thats in the middle lane, boo hoo, thats their problem not mine. I try to anticipate if they will move in to the left lane but HELL what are the chances of that??? :mad:

The M1 is ok, past Naas its ok southbound, Limerick dual carriageways in all directions, its ok. For me I only see this problem on the Nass dual carraigeway.

I dont think they will ever change their lane dicsipline and as long as they leave the left lane empty then I will continue to use this happily.

Ferris

Why not legalise undertaking like in the US. Sure its more dangerous but it would wake irish drivers up and make them pay attention to what they're doing.

Those in doubt should drive in LA for a day and see grannys driving at 80mph and changing lanes into spaces little longer than their car without trouble. Also this happens in the complete absence of beeping, flashing or 'flipping the bird'.

I was there for 3wks driving and didn't see one crash so it can't be that dangerous.

Berty

Ferris wrote: »

Why not legalise undertaking like in the US. Sure its more dangerous but it would wake irish drivers up and make them pay attention to what they're doing.

Those in doubt should drive in LA for a day and see grannys driving at 80mph and changing lanes into spaces little longer than their car without trouble. Also this happens in the complete absence of beeping, flashing or 'flipping the bird'.

I was there for 3wks driving and didn't see one crash so it can't be that dangerous.

In Florida you can pass somebody in any lane you feel like. I still kept to the right lane because I was still getting used to their roads.

Ferris

Berty wrote: »

I still kept to the right lane because I was still getting used to their roads.

Well I undertook like a mo-fo, drove like my hair was on fire and actually got places in reasonable time with minimal effort and maximum courtesy from other road users.

It really was that good, I'd always been told the LA was a traffic nightmare but it was brilliant compared to the M50

Celtic Mech

I have driven in the States plenty of times and must say it can be such a difference compared to here! The only thing there though is the traffic can come to a complete standstill in such a short distance...i.e. you could be doing 80mph on the interstate and all of a sudden ahead the traffic is still due to conjestion...can easily catch you out. Unlike here where there is usually a huge tailback first of slower cars.
Going back to what onemorechance said about driving in Germany aboutt he 3 distinct speed ranges for the 3 lanes...going with this kind of idea and a mix of the States could also be effective....Why not introduce a Minimum speed on the Motorways here? I think in places the speed limit on highways in the states is 65 or 70mph but also signs up in places that say Minimum Speed 55mph. How many of us have been on the motorway behind someone going about 80kph!! grrrrr!

andrewh5

I drive up behind them , position my car so they can see my RH indicator, give a long flash on the headlights then turn on the indicator. It usually has the desired effect.

the beerhunter

i've no qualms about passing on the inside if it's clear and some monkey is cruising slowly (and frequently below the speed limit). i don't believe in tailgating and flashing the headlights - if you scare these idiots awake while they're in front of you they're liable to hit the brakes. my preferred method is to return to the outside lane sooner than courtesy might dictate. the view in my rearview mirror is usually a rapid lane change by the offending vehicle to the left, or irate flashing of their lights that i dared to disturb their slumber .

modm3

The big road signs as mentioned is the only realistic method to get the message across. As also already mentioned, these people don't read this forum or go onto any website to learn how to drive on a particular road.

It's unfair to say that this only happens on the Naas road or N7 to the rest of the country :rolleyes:, as it's the only 3 lane 100kph road in Ireland, if they were elsewhere they'd be the same. Having said that, I used the N-M7/M1 over the Christmas period quite a bit and the users of the stretch of M7 from the M9 interchange to N7, M50 and M1 up to Lusk are the worst at lane discipline that I ever see in Ireland, incredibly selfish or just plain stupid. These are people who by and large live on that route and use it daily - what gives

Anyway - Big Road Signs and mention of Penalty Points, could get the message across, or a 10 min piece on the Late Late or Tubridy would get the majority of offenders attention -

daRobot

I find that a quick flash will do the trick, but if they don't move, i won't undertake or sit on their bumpers out of principle.

Tailgating (especially in the slow lane) is absolutely disgraceful driving, yet I see it happening all the time.

As mentioned in the thread earlier, some electronic motorway signs giving the basic rules of motorway driving would be very helpful.

Berty

What build a whole loads of gantries like this one

L1011

Berty wrote: »

Middle lane hoggers have no idea that they are in the wrong. They do not watch the TV ads, read the signs and certainly do not read this forum.

Or worse, like another user on here, they'll insist to the death that they're right for hogging the middle lane and try to justify it with safety reasons (which are invented).

Berty

MYOB wrote: »

Or worse, like another user on here, they'll insist to the death that they're right for hogging the middle lane and try to justify it with safety reasons (which are invented).

There was a truck that overtook a truck in the left lane only to come upon a car in the middle lane driving even slower. The artic moved into the right hand lane to overtake the car in the middle whom could have pulled into the left lane but didnt.

I could see what was going to happen because the truck driver did not have the foresight to see that there was a line of middle lane hoggers so he was left in his artic in the right lane(N7 Naas north) for around 2 kms with the right hand hoggers going mental behind him. I just cruised along in the left lane. I was not gaining any ground or losing any ground BUT I was content in being hidden away from all that silly road rage going on around me.

AND to top it all off the Newlands Cross lights were not working and it was carnage.

Noopti

Big bloody signs on the roads are what is needed. And a TV advert campaign, they did it for other ROTR so why not this?

I think the middle lane hogging is down to the fact that most people are so used to dual lanes that when they encounter 3 they don't know what to do!

Quint

Do they have TV ads saying to drive in the left? I never saw them if there were.

Why is undertaking illegal anyway? Surely if I'm driving in the left lane at the speed limit, say 100kph and someone is in the middle lane at 80kph it's safe to pass on the left? Are you allowed to move from the right lane to the left with out looking and indication or something?

Zube

Quint wrote: »

Why is undertaking illegal anyway?

It's a lot simpler and safer on a dual carriageway if everyone follows our rules. The American system calls for a bit more care, but obviously if you have 8 lanes of traffic and exits on both sides, it isn't practical for people to only pass on one side.

McSpud

colm_mcm wrote: »

what did you do?

Drove in the left lane & still able to do 65mph+ & maybe only have to overtake 2-3 cars.

colm_mcm

McSpud wrote: »

Drove in the left lane & still able to do 65mph+ & maybe only have to overtake 2-3 cars.

You're just compounding the problem.

Berty

Show me somebody who is making an effort to address this issue other than a bunch of nobodies discussing it on a forum in the depths of cyberspace and maybe I along with others might consider stopping it.

Im not undertaking because I want to get there faster. I do not see the point in having to leave the left lane to pass into the third lane to pass somebody in the second lane to drive back across to the left lane to continue my journey only to have to do this minutes later.

Im not the problem. Im not compounding the problem. They(elusive they) are!

AugustusMaximus

Middle Lane Morons manage to do 1 main thing.

That is reduce the capacity of a 3 lane motorway to that of a 2 lane motorway because of their own incompetance. The Naas road might aswell be a 2 lane road because of these idiots.

I too stick in the left hand lane and bomb on past them. Idiots.

kdouglas

colm_mcm wrote: »

It's easy. flash your lights, make a fuss. at least make them see that what they're doing is wrong. Overtaking on the inside not only compounds the problem (by both making them afraid to pull into the left lane and making them think what they're doing is ok) nut is also illegal.

While I do use the indicate, flash lights approach, sometimes it just doesn't work, I approached two drivers tailgating eachother in the overtaking lane on the M1 north the other morning, tried it and they just would not move over, there were no other cars on the stretch of road for about a mile in either direction but yet they felt the need to clog up the overtaking lane.

While the flash lights/indicate method commonly works for those in the overtaking lane, how do you get the message across to middle lane hoggers?

mikemac wrote: »

Spot on! I'll openly admit I was a middle lane hogger the first time I drove the naas road southbound.
Because it seemed to me and to plently of others that the left lane was for exits and I didn't want to go down some exit so I stayed in the middle.

True, they only changed the signs recently, it used to be signed in such a way that the left hand lane appeared to be for the next exit only, the problem still persists though.


So my idea of a website fails... but perhaps we should get onto the RSA and start asking for better signage? And I dont just mean a stupid internet petition, with enough people mailing in letters, they might actually just read one of them

milltown

kdouglas wrote: »

I approached two drivers tailgating eachother in the overtaking lane on the M1 north the other morning, tried it and they just would not move over

Surely the guy doing the tailgating was also trying to get past the slow coach in front. Just doing it more dangerously.

[PEDANT: Two cars can't tailgate each other /PEDANT]

hayyman

kdouglas wrote: »

So I drove Dublin -> Dundalk -> Newbridge yesterday, and also drive Dublin -> Newbridge several times a week (usually late in the evening when there is little traffic) and I got to thinking a bit recently about an idea.

As with many other posters here, the middle lane and overtaking lane hoggers get on my nerves and although the occasional indicator/flash of headlights works for some/most of the overtaking lane hoggers, it seems like driver's need to be educated on what they're doing wrong.

(Middle lane drivers really frustrate me, what's wrong with the perfectly good empty lane to your left??!? especially late at night when there are very few other vehicles on the road)

It's a basic principle of the rules of the road, you keep left. And I believe lack of driver education is the root cause of this problem.

So, I got to thinking, would it work if someone started a website aimed at educating drivers on such things as lane positioning on motorways and other similar common pet peeves/bad habits.

The website would need to be promoted well to reach a wide enough audience of course, and I thought bumper stickers with the website address would be an effective way to get the message out to the right audience. (plenty of other drivers would see them)

Just an idea I had, and was wondering if anyone else had any other possibly effective ways of educating drivers on correct motorway discipline?


(Note: I'm in no way saying I myself am a perfect driver, we all have our downfalls, this is just one major thing that annoys me Also, not meaning this thread to turn into a debate/moan thread about such activities, looking for discussion on ways to solve the problem)

Its just bad mannered people that drive in the overtaking lane on dualcarriageways n motorways.like get a life its not dare job 2 hold up people that want 2 go faster,thats y its there

Voodoomelon

milltown wrote: »

Was up to Newry yesterday and I must say the lane discipline on the M1 seems to be much, much better than the M50, N/M7 and N/M4.

This is true, I drive the M1 20+ times a year and its plain sailing. When I arrive on the M50, the madness breaks loose...

jim o doom

Buy and old really beaten up clearly unloved Toyota hi-lux and drive REALLY close to the back, if they don't move - then ram! heh heh only joking, but there are times behind these people that it doesn't seem like such a bad idea

TheBazman

Heading up the M7 this morning and came up behind a plonker in a wine Skoda in the overtaking lane - there wasnt another car to be seen. I moved out to the overtaking lane and waited and waited, eventually I flashed quickly, then again, and finally a flash of around 1 - 2 seconds...no move. Eventually I undertook. After that I look in the rear view mirror only to see him move into the inside lane. Why could he not have done while I was behind him ??

j2dab

Berty wrote: »

I try to anticipate if they will move in to the left lane but HELL what are the chances of that???

lol , no chance they are allergic to the left lane.
I have also given up flashing its not worth the stress anymore 1 in 5 drivers doing it will not pull in to prove some sort of point I find, so I just undertake them but am sure to be very observant in the process.

L1011

TheBazman wrote: »

Heading up the M7 this morning and came up behind a plonker in a wine Skoda in the overtaking lane - there wasnt another car to be seen. I moved out to the overtaking lane and waited and waited, eventually I flashed quickly, then again, and finally a flash of around 1 - 2 seconds...no move. Eventually I undertook. After that I look in the rear view mirror only to see him move into the inside lane. Why could he not have done while I was behind him ??

He was likely acting policeman and trying to "slow you down"... far too many of this class of driver on the road.

dade

Berty wrote: »

In Florida you can pass somebody in any lane you feel like. I still kept to the right lane because I was still getting used to their roads.

Ferris wrote: »

It really was that good, I'd always been told the LA was a traffic nightmare but it was brilliant compared to the M50

driven in both LA and FL and to be honest found the LA traffic so much easier drivers tended to be more courteous when you went to change lanes. probably all the tourists in FL

Dearg81

Are you allowed to undertake cars while your driving in the bus lane(after 7pm and sundays)? I presume you are as taxis always do.