GRADMED: UCD versus RCSI

mickedm

Hey im mick, a molecular biology graduate now working in Infectious Disease. Im planning to sit GAMSAT in March and my first choice on the CAO will be in Dublin. I attended an open day in RCSI that was excellent and informative. Lack of library facilities and possible cabin fever were the only issues that entered my noggin. Info regarding how the 4 year course in UCD is specifically geared towards graduates seems harder to come by. I was hoping that somebody in either of these courses might be able to shed some light on these issues. I don't want to make a poor choice (probably getting a bit ahead of myself). Thanks anyway in advance

Traumadoc

What "lack of library facilities"?

mickedm

The purpose built facilities for the graduate entry programme in RCSI, both for year 1 in Sandyford and year 2 in Blanchardstown seem not to have much in the way of dedicated library facilities. I got the impression from some of the students at the open day that they did not like the way that all of the material is delivered via laptop. Was just wondering if this is a big issue? Or an issue at all? The lack of having a campus was also mentioned as a downside. thanks

Traumadoc

Ah now I understand,

To be honest the library for undergraduates was a place of study rather than a source of information, I think the library has much more significance for postgraduate student. If you do need to research something - you have access to mercers ( on the LUAS)?

I dont think that the campus is that important as you are not there for campus life, you are there to get an education that you have paid serious money for.

mickedm

yeah you make a fair point about the lack of campus, suppose thats not a priority. Have you had any experience of the laptop-based system used there? I thought I sensed a dislike for the method from some students.

Any UCD graduate students out there?

Eerie

Hi Mick!
I'm in 2nd year GEP in RCSI at the moment - there are a few of us lurking around boards so hopefully you'll get more feedback!
I haven't found either of the issues you raised to be too much of a problem really. Regarding the library, from Sandyford it's only ~20 mins on the Luas to the Mercer library in Stephen's Green if that's what you're into! Most people studied for exams there. Some also made use of our tutorial rooms to study after class (I think the building is open till around 8 or so during the week). There is a library in Blanchardstown too but the opening hours aren't great - again most people venture into town or use the tutorial rooms for study! The course is very fast-paced so I find that I don't really have the time to make full use of the library like I did in undergrad - I mainly just use my notes, some select books which I have bought and the online library facilities.
Regarding the laptop-based lecture material - I find it brilliant! It means that all your notes are together, in the same format and easily accessible. I also like to make extra notes directly onto the powerpoint presentation itself during class so I find this system good. The only downside is that if you are easily distracted - facebook, boards, solitare etc are only a mouse-click away!
Hope this has been of help to ya!
E:D

mickedm

hey thanks eerie, thats definitely a help. maybe my own aprehension is making me doubt a perfectly good system. being honest im not sure I like the idea of studying direct from a computer screen. Ive always been more comfortable with a hard copy I can doodle on. Other than that I have to say that having attended the open day, the RCSI programme seemed very impressive. Having said that I really havent had much feed back from the main competitor. Any ideas which course has previously had the highest points requirement?

Eerie

Hi again,
The lecture notes are posted a few days in advance of the lecture most of the time so you can print them off and makes notes that way if you prefer. There are quite a few in my class who do this regularly.
I know that RCSI had the highest requirements in the last 2 years (but by only 1 or 2 points!) - around 59, I think. I'm not sure of the exact figures... sorry!
There is a med school forum on www.newmediamedicine.com for the irish med schools and there is always a lively discussion on all the GEP programmes. You might find answers to some of your questions there also.
Eerie

mickedm

thanks Eerie, maybe Ill see you next year

katieg28

I too am considering RSCI for GEP next year.. and if it wasn't for the fact that I really want to stay in dublin I'd run a mile from RCSI purely based on there lack of desire or ability to have a conversation and give out information.. I have continually found them rude, patronising and difficult to deal with!!!

LEARN SOME PEOPLE SKILLS.....

mickedm

Im the same in that I would prefer to stay in Dublin but I had a very different experience in dealing with RCSI. I could agree with you somewhat if you were talking about UCD who without being particularly rude were disinterested and failed on a couple of occasions to get back to me after saying they would. On the other hand I found those I dealt with at RCSI willing and eager to provide info. Maybe thats because I was at their open day. You had to apply to attend, giving them your details, courses completed etc and there was limited places available. It involved a full day composed of a session with a real patient, a Q&A session and a sample rotation of 6 half hour tutorials based on a cardiology theme. There was also a number of both qualified doctors and students to answer any questions. I couldn't fault it to be honest. Its a pity you didn't get the same treatment as I did.
have you made any decisions on your first choice yet?

etymon

I'm sitting the GAMSAT in March too and I have put RCSI as my first choice, purely because I already did three years in UCD. The only problem is, commuting between Sandyford and Blanch - both are on the M50 I suppose?
Personally I prefer to make paper notes but wouldn't be averse to the laptop idea - something different, anyway - saves on storage - for example I am just remembering the clearout of all my uni notes after the finals - ugh!

RCSI GEP

etymon wrote: »

I'm sitting the GAMSAT in March too and I have put RCSI as my first choice, purely because I already did three years in UCD. The only problem is, commuting between Sandyford and Blanch - both are on the M50 I suppose?
Personally I prefer to make paper notes but wouldn't be averse to the laptop idea - something different, anyway - saves on storage - for example I am just remembering the clearout of all my uni notes after the finals - ugh!

Just to be clear - the first year of the course is almost entirely in Sandyford (with a quick Luas ride into Stephens Green once or twice a week). The second year is entirely in Connolly Hospital Blanchardstown. So there is no commuting between the two (unless you choose to live in Sandyford in Year 2).
Re: lecture notes. Alot of students print out the notes in advance and annotate them during the lecture.

Good luck.

katieg28

i'm just wondering, does anyone know if the various colleges require a minimum grade in each section?? I know certain colleges in the UK require you to get at least a 55 in section 3....


Thanks in advance... hope everyone is getting on well with their study.. not long to go now.. Thank God!!

Eerie

katieg28 wrote: »

i'm just wondering, does anyone know if the various colleges require a minimum grade in each section?? I know certain colleges in the UK require you to get at least a 55 in section 3....

Nope - they only look at your overall score.

RCSI GEP

katieg28 wrote: »

i'm just wondering, does anyone know if the various colleges require a minimum grade in each section?? I know certain colleges in the UK require you to get at least a 55 in section 3....


Thanks in advance... hope everyone is getting on well with their study.. not long to go now.. Thank God!!

Only the overall GAMSAT score is used but the science section has a double weighting (1:1:2).

Paul Hewson

Howdy,

Any of you folks at RCSI GEP using Macs or iPads? I suspect RCSI is using some Cisco security layer in Javs or even Adobe Flash to support Moodle.

Is there any truth to that rumor? If so, I guess it's no iPad for me. How about Macs? Anyone using a Mac for course content or are you stuck using Windows?

The more information the better. Can you sell those "free" HP Laptops? I'd heard RCSI used to be a Mac shop. Did they change over to HP recently?

Anything else about the learning environment at Stillorgan would be much appreciated? No, I'm not a troll who actually lectures or marks your course!

Best,

Bono

HQvhs

Paul Hewson wrote: »

Howdy,

Any of you folks at RCSI GEP using Macs or iPads? I suspect RCSI is using some Cisco security layer in Javs or even Adobe Flash to support Moodle.

Is there any truth to that rumor? If so, I guess it's no iPad for me. How about Macs? Anyone using a Mac for course content or are you stuck using Windows?

The more information the better. Can you sell those "free" HP Laptops? I'd heard RCSI used to be a Mac shop. Did they change over to HP recently?

Anything else about the learning environment at Stillorgan would be much appreciated? No, I'm not a troll who actually lectures or marks your course!

Best,

Bono

I don't think you can sell the laptops, although I could be mistaken.
Plenty of people use macs on the course, as until recently RCSI did use macs. However, the HP laptops they now give you do the job well, and they come loaded with the full version of office (Onenote in particular is very handy!).

Eerie

Paul Hewson wrote: »

Howdy,

Any of you folks at RCSI GEP using Macs or iPads? I suspect RCSI is using some Cisco security layer in Javs or even Adobe Flash to support Moodle.

Is there any truth to that rumor? If so, I guess it's no iPad for me. How about Macs? Anyone using a Mac for course content or are you stuck using Windows?

The more information the better. Can you sell those "free" HP Laptops? I'd heard RCSI used to be a Mac shop. Did they change over to HP recently?

Anything else about the learning environment at Stillorgan would be much appreciated? No, I'm not a troll who actually lectures or marks your course!

Best,

Bono

Yup - you need cisco to get onto the network in RCSI No Macs in RCSI anymore - HPs are the school laptops since 2007.

I use a Macbook and it works fine though. I don't think you can use snowleopard as apparently cisco doesn't work on it - IT were looking into this earlier in the year but i've heard no update yet.

Rarely, there is some video content on Moodle that I can't get to work on my Mac - but that's not saying that it isn't possible, i'm just a noob! Generally I have no problems.

Regarding selling your "free" HP, RCSI say that you need to return your laptop should you leave the college and in 3rd year to get the new one (a much fancier, smaller HP), although i'm not sure if they follow through on this threat, they didn't with us! Better safe than sorry, I suppose!

Sandyford was great - it's been a couple years since i've been there (in 3rd year now and I miss it!). Nice lecture room, 5 tutorial rooms with lockers, a little kitchen with free tea/coffee and a nice open area with couches! Staff are lovely and are very approachable and accommodating. All lecture material is on Moodle. Second year is pretty much an identical set-up, just in Blanchardstown.

Hope this helps,
Eerie

sillymoo

I am in the last class that got Mac's (2006). You cannot use cisco on the newer macbooks with snowleapord but there is a way around it (without actually downloading cisco and getting "temporary access".

lonestargirl

My husband graduated in 2008, initially they had Macs and they had loads of problems with them so they got issued with the HP machines in the beginning of final med. Loads of people sold them on - I just took my husband's one and I'm still using it (you know to post on boards and stuff :P)

Paul Hewson

HQvhs wrote: »

I don't think you can sell the laptops, although I could be mistaken.
Plenty of people use macs on the course, as until recently RCSI did use macs. However, the HP laptops they now give you do the job well, and they come loaded with the full version of office (Onenote in particular is very handy!).

Hey thanks for that. Will check out OneNote. I've used PCs through various versions of Windoz. I have no desire to go back to viruses and crash city.

V. happy I can still use a mac. To be honest, that would be a deal breaker.

Bono

Paul Hewson

Eerie wrote: »

Yup - you need cisco to get onto the network in RCSI No Macs in RCSI anymore - HPs are the school laptops since 2007.

I use a Macbook and it works fine though. I don't think you can use snowleopard as apparently cisco doesn't work on it - IT were looking...

Rarely, there is some video content on Moodle that I can't get to work on my Mac - but that's not saying that it isn't possible, i'm...

Regarding selling your "free" HP, RCSI say that you need to return your...

Sandyford was great - it's been a couple years since i've been there (in 3rd year now and I miss it!). Nice lecture room, 5 tutorial rooms with lockers...

Hope this helps,
Eerie

No Snowleopard? Maybe my CS PhD will be good for something after all?
Looking into it? As my cousin says, resting their tits on a shovel more like.
Oh, I promise to return it. I do.
I'm so glad you said that about Sandyford.
Yes this really helps!

Don't get me too excited, I use four letter words when I get excited,

Bono

Paul Hewson

sillymoo wrote: »

I am in the last class that got Mac's (2006). You cannot use cisco on the newer macbooks with snowleapord but there is a way around it (without actually downloading cisco and getting "temporary access".

You must share that workaround for Cisco on Snowleopard. Yeah, Yeah, yeah,

Bono

Paul Hewson

lonestargirl wrote: »

My husband graduated in 2008, initially they had Macs and they had loads of problems with them so they got issued with the HP machines in the beginning of final med. Loads of people sold them on - I just took my husband's one and I'm still using it (you know to post on boards and stuff :P)

TX Honey,

Thank you for the reply. Appreciate the perspective. Sell what we paid for

I'm the Imelda Marcos of sunglasses,

Bono

Paul Hewson

Eerie,

So how have you found the course in 1st and 2nd year? Any sage advice for a proby?

Bono

Eerie

Paul Hewson wrote: »

Eerie,

So how have you found the course in 1st and 2nd year? Any sage advice for a proby?

Bono

Found it great, hard work but enjoyable for the most part! First year can be difficult for some as it's very fast-paced, especially if you don't have a science background, but continuous assessment makes sure that you don't fall behind. We start early in the morning (anywhere from 730 to 830) so that takes some getting used to but it's good practice for the wards! My advice would be to make sure you attend all your lectures, I find that the ones that struggled come exam time were the ones that were never there.

Just finishing 3rd year now so we've joined with the 5/6 year program. It was always a worry that we would be at a disadvantage with 1 year less of study but there have been no problems. We're all at pretty much the same level.

You'll have a great time, it's so exciting at the beginning! Time has really flown, can't believe that this time next year i'll be done!

Any more questions, feel free...

Paul Hewson

Eerie wrote: »

Found it great, hard work but enjoyable for the most part! First year can be difficult for some as it's very fast-paced, especially if you don't have a science background, but continuous assessment makes sure that you don't fall behind. We start early in the morning (anywhere from 730 to 830) so that takes some getting used to but it's good practice for the wards! My advice would be to make sure you attend all your lectures, I find that the ones that struggled come exam time were the ones that were never there.

Just finishing 3rd year now so we've joined with the 5/6 year program. It was always a worry that we would be at a disadvantage with 1 year less of study but there have been no problems. We're all at pretty much the same level.

You'll have a great time, it's so exciting at the beginning! Time has really flown, can't believe that this time next year i'll be done!

Any more questions, feel free...

Hey, many thanks. Paying $13 or $50 a year and not attending lectures?
Pretty crazy that. Thanks for the great info. Will have more question...

Anything you didn't like or found frustrating so far? Any negatives at all?

Bono

Paul Hewson

Eerie wrote: »

Hi Mick!
I'm in 2nd year GEP in RCSI at the moment - there are a few of us lurking around boards so hopefully you'll get more feedback!
I haven't found either of the issues you raised to be too much of a problem really. Regarding the library, from Sandyford it's only ~20 mins on the Luas to the Mercer library in Stephen's Green if that's what you're into! Most people studied for exams there. Some also made use of our tutorial rooms to study after class (I think the building is open till around 8 or so during the week). There is a library in Blanchardstown too but the opening hours aren't great - again most people venture into town or use the tutorial rooms for study! The course is very fast-paced so I find that I don't really have the time to make full use of the library like I did in undergrad - I mainly just use my notes, some select books which I have bought and the online library facilities.
Regarding the laptop-based lecture material - I find it brilliant! It means that all your notes are together, in the same format and easily accessible. I also like to make extra notes directly onto the powerpoint presentation itself during class so I find this system good. The only downside is that if you are easily distracted - facebook, boards, solitare etc are only a mouse-click away!
Hope this has been of help to ya!
E:D

E, Thanks for the detailed reply. Appreciate you taking the time. RCSI is my #1 for 2010 GEP. Thought the window for change of preferences closes on July 1st. Is there anything negative about the course? Anything I should hear to dampen my enthusiasm for RCSI? Is there anything I should be asking you?

Bono

aloui

Hi Eerie,

Im in the same spot as Bono trying to pick between UCD or RCSI. Could you estimate how much time you spent in lectures vs clinical exposure for your first three years? Hope its all going well for you still. I imagine both schools are very similar, just a matter of picking one which will make learning easier or more interesting in my mind!

Thanks for any info you can offer.

Eerie

aloui wrote: »

Hi Eerie,

Im in the same spot as Bono trying to pick between UCD or RCSI. Could you estimate how much time you spent in lectures vs clinical exposure for your first three years? Hope its all going well for you still. I imagine both schools are very similar, just a matter of picking one which will make learning easier or more interesting in my mind!

Thanks for any info you can offer.

Hi aloui,

Years 1 and 2 are mostly lectures but there is a fair amount of clinical exposure (see below). There are also "case of the week" sessions where the class takes a history and then, in small groups, you have to answer questions and present your answers to the class. There are also plenty of small group tutorials where you learn about clinical investigations related to your topic for the week (like interpreting ECGs, blood tests...) This all helps to put your lectures in a clinical context and makes them less monotonous! You also attend grand rounds via video-link to Beaumont in 1st year and in person in Blanchardstown in 2nd year.

Year 1:
You are eased into the hospital setting in the second semester with once weekly afternoon visits to Beaumont where you rotate through different clinical settings e.g. theatre, anaesthetics, radiology, ward rounds, cardiac diagnostics, clinics...
At the end of the year there is a 1 month clinical attachment in Beaumont (2 weeks medicine and 2 weeks surgery).

Year 2:
There are weekly ward tutorials in small groups (where you go and take a history/examine patients with a tutor). There is also a weekly slot for either a clinical skills tutorial on plastic models (e.g. phlebotomy, catheterisation, suturing) or clinical "observation" in places like physiotherapy, occupational therapy etc...
There are also 2 months of clinical attachment in Blanchardstown - 4 weeks medicine, 2 weeks general surgery, 2 weeks orthopedic surgery (in Cappagh)
This year is when you learn pathology and microbiology so you also get to go to the path lab, micro lab and to post-mortems.

Year 3:
This is pretty much all clinical attachments except maybe a week of lectures/tutorials for paediatrics and 2 weeks for GP. You do 6 week rotations through Med/surg, GP, Psych, Paeds and Obs & Gynae. Intense, but fun! Roll on final med!

Hope this has helped you in some way...

Eerie

aloui

Thanks so much Eerie - really appreciate your time.

timuthytrimble

Hi Eeerie,

We got our temp timetable for RCSI . We seem to have a lot of afternoons off ? Is this for real or will they be filled with tutorials or some sort of group work? The reason I ask is I'm tempted to take off a day per week seen as I've done most of the science bit before. I wouldn't be taking off the anatomy days (Mon+Tuesday) mind you but wednesday and thursday seem fairly handy half days. Am I dreaming?

Eerie

Hi timuthytrimble!

I do seem to remember having the afternoons relatively free in 1st year, except for anatomy (TBH it's all a bit of a haze now!). They try and pack everything into the mornings and try not to do too much in one day as it can be overwhelming, to say the least. Occasionally, there were rescheduled lectures and extra tutorials on in the afternoon.
I'm not sure you would get away with missing one day a week, to be honest. There is usually at least one compulsory class (i.e. a tutorial, case of the week discussion or grand rounds) where they randomly take attendance. Miss too many and you'll be in the bad books!
Depending on what you've done before, you might still learn something from the more basic science lectures. I found that there was a more clinical perspective taken when teaching these subjects compared to a pure science degree. You'll also have to read through the lectures one way or the other for your monthly multiple choice quizzes as a lot of the questions are taken as direct quotes from the lecture notes! So you might as well be there and have it read to you by the lecturer! That said I did miss a few of the more basic ones as it can be incredibly boring if you've done it all before!

mylastparadigm

mickedm wrote: »

Hey im mick, a molecular biology graduate now working in Infectious Disease. Im planning to sit GAMSAT in March and my first choice on the CAO will be in Dublin. I attended an open day in RCSI that was excellent and informative. Lack of library facilities and possible cabin fever were the only issues that entered my noggin. Info regarding how the 4 year course in UCD is specifically geared towards graduates seems harder to come by. I was hoping that somebody in either of these courses might be able to shed some light on these issues. I don't want to make a poor choice (probably getting a bit ahead of myself). Thanks anyway in advance

library in surgeons is a disaster. people chatting at desks, ringing phones left on desk when people are away. windows are not near sound proof and you can hear the trafic on the street outside. staff are invisible. there are constant complaints about peoples behaviour in the library but nothing is done. terible.

Piste

Not the mention being able to hear every busker in the grafton street area. Mercer library does have its charm though, it becomes a home away from home.

Biologic

On the bright side, you've always got an alternative. 1st GEP has reservoir house/Beaumont library and 2nd have blanchardstown to themselves.
I don't find Mercer that bad though. The top floor is generally pretty silent. Mobile phones are a problem in every university library I've been to, so UCD probably won't be much different.

Piste

I loved the 3rd floor until everyone started going there, had a lovely spot right beside the window/radiator, now I can never find a spot there

etymon

never understand why ppl don't just wear earplugs... indispensable! can also be used on Luas when you don't want to listen to ya-yas discussing the OMG AMAZING bargains in BT2 on the way into town

MicraBoy

Biologic wrote: »

On the bright side, you've always got an alternative. 1st GEP has reservoir house/Beaumont library and 2nd have blanchardstown to themselves.
I don't find Mercer that bad though. The top floor is generally pretty silent. Mobile phones are a problem in every university library I've been to, so UCD probably won't be much different.

Oh no in the main library we have LibroCop and LibroNazi who patrol and fine with military efficiency.

The Health Sciences library is nice but much nosier because of its lay out, and lack of zealot Librarians.