Extremely graphic video taken from YouTube. Is this censorship?

easy guv'nor

I hadn't created a Digg logon until I saw this video last night. If you think its important for people around the world to see this video, then Digg it.

I think our media has been filtered for too long. If more people saw the reality of war rather than the sanitized Sky News version maybe things would be different.

No doubt this video was taken by a Hamas cameraman and has been spread by them, but the images are shocking and undeniable. I think the financial and military support that Israel recieves puts the onus on them to show restraint.
[NSFW=Gore, Dead people, not for faint-hearted, I cannot spell it out any clearer]The link is here[/NSFW].

Update: The title and description of this video on Liveleak changed since it was initially posted.

Initially this video was titled as an Israeli Attack on Gaza 2009, then the title changed to "Hamas weapons parade accident 2005" and the text description added.

More details here, google cache images of the page before and after the change on page two of the thread.

More information here.

There are allegations in the Liveleak comments that the video was initially posted under a different username.

The video is is one of many posted by a user on Liveleak. I think if you look at the tone and content of these other videos you may get a clearer picture of their agenda, and why they might change the title of the original video (and it seems edit the video) the way they did.

update: more information here and here.

m3llowship

Man, that is seriously tough to look at......

Mc Love

Well where is it?

jank

If that video made the headlines around the world there would be total outrage of what Israel are doing at the moment. So mich so that peopel would demand they ceasefire. But this is war and those who control the information control the morality of it. There are no western reporters in Gaza itself. Speaks volumes.

mikemac

Youtube is a privately owned site, censorship doesn't apply.

easy guv'nor

I agree, I couldn't watch it through to the end the first time, had to come back again and force myself to watch it.

Its the reality though. If more people realised that events like this have been deliberately hidden from us there might be less innocent deaths.

I think these are war crimes.

mikemac wrote: »

Youtube is a privately owned site, censorship doesn't apply.

No offence, but I think that its naive to think censorship doesn't apply to youTube.

Kiera

Oh my god. My heart just broke. Thats very very very upsetting.

mike65

This thread isn't about youtube censorship really is it? its about propaganda.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Youtube have the right to host and not host what they want. As for sky, ask yourself: would you feel comfortable with your kids watching that in place of a bedtime story?

Sky is less news and more entertainment. They broadcast that and they lose their viewers, no that's the only truth they care about.

Parsley

Christ.

I think the Israelis should change the name of their army/navy/air force from the Israeli Defense Forces to something more appropriate.

miju

To be honest what go on in that video isn't any different from what has been going on in Iraq since the US invaded.

Whats so special about 1 video of the aftermath of an IDF attack that warrants public outcry? I didn't hear any outcry when a video surfaced last week of 20 schoolkids in Iraq being torn apart by a bomb (and no I'm not trolling)

easy guv'nor

Definitely not about propaganda. For the record I have no political affiliation.

I think that things like this are kept from us and should be seen more widely so that people can inform their opinions.

Berty

Real life rather than the diluted censored media stuff that flows through.

miju

easy guv'nor wrote: »

I think that things like this are kept from us and should be seen more widely so that people can inform their opinions.

things are not kept from us at all it's quite simply the masses do not want to consume media of that variety. if you really want to find out the truth on the ground in places like Gaza, Iraq , Afghanistan and India then you only need look no further than the likes of Liveleak

spurious

That was hard to watch.

Nodin

easy guv'nor wrote: »

I hadn't created a Digg logon until I saw this video last night. If you think its important for people around the world to see this video, then Digg it.

I think our media has been filtered for too long. If more people saw the reality of war rather than the sanitized Sky News version maybe things would be different.

No doubt this video was taken by a Hamas cameraman and has been spread by them, but the images are shocking and undeniable. I think the financial and military support that Israel recieves puts the onus on them to show restraint. The link is here.

In fairness no news organisation in the West shows graphic footage from any war. Various reasons are given, none of which strike me as acceptable. Perhaps the funniest is the idea that it will "desensitise" people. Therefore they avoid this by making it appear not so bad after all.

Steve.Pseudonym

easy guv'nor wrote: »

Definitely not about propaganda. For the record I have no political affiliation.

I think that things like this are kept from us and should be seen more widely so that people can inform their opinions.

They aren't really kept from you though. You see the figures quoted in the media, the only difference is that video is more emotive than numbers. However, if videos like this were common place, then you'd see the same thing on both sides of every conflict, and then you'd only end up in the same place we are now, with the same arguments.

It's a sobering video, but it changes nothing.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

miju wrote: »

things are not kept from us at all it's quite simply the masses do not want to consume media of that variety. if you really want to find out the truth on the ground in places like Gaza, Iraq , Afghanistan and India then you only need look no further than the likes of Liveleak

Not nessecarily - the media is all about what they DON'T tell you, not what they do. You think you're getting the truth, the whole turth and nothing but the truth...?

I was in Istanbul at the time of the arrest of Abdullah Ocalan. Most of the people couldn't believe that I'd no idea who he was.

Try researching blogs about the Darfur conflict.

Piste

Can someone describe that video? I'm not sure I want to see it.

Calibos

I think Hamas might actually be pissed that that video was leaked. I pity the civilians caught up in this. Men women and children alike. But we see a blown up truck with a mortor in the back, we see camo wearing hamas members seeming quite busy stripping weapons and camo clothing off their dead instead of dealing with the injured. Presumably for the 'official' video release where the israelies blew up a market of 100% civilians for no good reason at all. :rolleyes:


I am not an Isreali appologist but it doesn't look cut and dried at all. Can we see a video of the aftermath of a suicide bombing or rocket attack too?

Sierra Oscar

No - its called policy. YouTube have a strict policy when it comes to gore.

The video is very disturbing, watch only if you have a hard stomach.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3b3_1230864719

easy guv'nor

miju wrote: »

To be honest what go on in that video isn't any different from what has been going on in Iraq since the US invaded.

You're right, and going on in Aghanistan too probably. But because journalists weren't on hand to report on incidents in Iraq or Afghanistan we don't see anything of events.

Chardee MacDennis

mikemac wrote: »

Youtube is a privately owned site, censorship doesn't apply.

It is their site and they can do what they want but under the DMCA it makes a massive difference if they have editorial control the content of their site - it means that they can be sued for copyright violations.

anyway isnt this the kind of thing that liveleek is around for?

Neamhshuntasach

Calibos wrote: »

I think Hamas might actually be pissed that that video was leaked. I pity the civilians caught up in this. Men women and children alike. But we see a blown up truck with a mortor in the back, we see camo wearing hamas members seeming quite busy stripping weapons and camo clothing off their dead instead of dealing with the injured. Presumably for the 'official' video release where the israelies blew up a market of 100% civilians for no good reason at all. :rolleyes:


I am not an Isreali appologist but it doesn't look cut and dried at all. Can we see a video of the aftermath of a suicide bombing or rocket attack too?

Think you watched a different video than i did.

mikemac

Neamhshuntasach wrote: »

Think you watched a different video than i did.

There is no denying this is in the video:

Calibos wrote: »

I But we see a blown up truck with a mortor in the back, we see camo wearing hamas members seeming quite busy stripping weapons and camo clothing off their dead instead of dealing with the injured.

easy guv'nor

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

No - its called policy. YouTube have a strict policy when it comes to gore.

The video is very disturbing, watch only if you have a hard stomach.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3b3_1230864719

(copy and paste from Digg)

Why is this video taken down, when thishttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUaiSJukt_k&fea ... video is allowed to remain? The scenes at 2:30, 4:20, 5:00, 5:22 and 6:10 are at least as shocking. Or this onehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Evnx4oWle20 with scenes at 1:34-2:13, 2:31...........

Pretend gore is fine but real gore is not allowed?

spurious

Piste wrote: »

Can someone describe that video? I'm not sure I want to see it.

It's the aftermath of a bomb or rocket or something. Dead kids lying around, people screaming, people poking a body to see if the person is alive or not.
Horrible stuff. No doubt the same and worse is happening all over the world, but as others have said we get very sanitised news here.

Saibh

I watched about 20 seconds of this video - don't have the stomach to watch any more.

LolaLuv

That just made me appreciate my life a whole lot.

Chardee MacDennis

Calibos wrote: »

I think Hamas might actually be pissed that that video was leaked. I pity the civilians caught up in this. Men women and children alike. But we see a blown up truck with a mortor in the back, we see camo wearing hamas members seeming quite busy stripping weapons and camo clothing off their dead instead of dealing with the injured. Presumably for the 'official' video release where the israelies blew up a market of 100% civilians for no good reason at all. :rolleyes:


I am not an Isreali appologist but it doesn't look cut and dried at all. Can we see a video of the aftermath of a suicide bombing or rocket attack too?

the number of dead civilians i saw in that video far outweighed the number of dead "camo wearing hamas" - and i am sure the reasons they were stripping them of ammunition was because they hardly have massive stockpiles of them like the israelis. it seems to be like bloody sunday over there every second day. if I was there it would definitely cause me to pick up a gun get some israeli soldiers tbh.

Call Me Jimmy

As people have said, it's pretty hard to watch and isn't to be taken lightly, but it doesn't change anything. It's like Michael Moore showing children playing in a playground in Iraq on a sunny day and then cutting to a child who got his leg blown off, it's not right.

One thing I do know. If I'm palestinian and I see guys in camo with aks etc. I get the **** outta there!

Sharpshooter

That's gruesome stuff there, I couldn't make out what the crowd was doing near the end of the clip.
Were they civilian's or soldiers?
The soldiers seemed to be trying to keep people away.

consultech

'Couldn't get through all of that. RIP.

Chardee MacDennis

also is it not a war crime to kill civilians and police officers?

Steve.Pseudonym

BastardPrince wrote: »

also is it not a war crime to kill civilians and police officers?

Killing civilians deliberately is. As for police, given that they're Hamas, what's the difference between them and combatants? I'd wager there is none.

easy guv'nor

Steve.Pseudonym wrote: »

They aren't really kept from you though. You see the figures quoted in the media, the only difference is that video is more emotive than numbers. However, if videos like this were common place, then you'd see the same thing on both sides of every conflict, and then you'd only end up in the same place we are now, with the same arguments.

It's a sobering video, but it changes nothing.

But surely the images that came from (for example) Vietnam, changed public opinion in the US and made a difference to the course of the conflict there.

We should always be informed of inequality and the unjust killing of innocent people, even if it makes us uncomfortable.

D-Generate

Is the presence of Hamas terrorists dead on the ground and walking amongst the civilians not a sign that the IDF are targeting combatants rather than civilians? If Hamas had half the equipment that the IDF have then we can be sure that they would use it directly against civilians. One side is always going to have more power than the other, I'm glad its in the Israeli's hands rather than those that endorse the murder of Jews as party of their organizations policy.

ArphaRima

I couldnt watch it all.

One thing that becomes apparant quickly though is that there is a strong military presence there. If this thread is about censorship, then I feel youtube has a right to block whatever it likes. Its a mainstream ENTERTAINMENT source.
As propaganda I dont think this video works for any cause. Military casualties are evident. Hamas couldnt use it. Israel couldnt use it because there are dead children. I think this video like many other unseen serves as a reminder that war is abhorrent, and to be avoided at all costs.

Like a previous poster I actually felt angry at the cameraman. How could somebody just watch? People were dead and dying and he was pushing his way through rescuers and soldiers alike.

Steve.Pseudonym

easy guv'nor wrote: »

But surely the images that came from (for example) Vietnam, changed public opinion in the US and made a difference to the course of the conflict there.

We should always be informed of inequality and the unjust killing of innocent people, even if it makes us uncomfortable.

There's a difference between our viewpoints, you seem to want people to make political decisions based on their emotional reaction to graphic imagery, I'd prefer they made it based on the merits of the situation.

Opening the Vietnam can of worms may not be a good idea either :pac:

BostonB

easy guv'nor wrote: »

...I think our media has been filtered for too long. If more people saw the reality of war rather than the sanitized Sky News version maybe things would be different....

With respect I think you're being very naive. Media (for as long as its existed) has almost always been filtered and controlled to serve some interest or other. Most people have their own agenda.

Most people can't stomach graphic images. Thats simply the reality of it. These images while terrible, are happening all over the world, africa, south america and most don't get reported. Its also most impossible for innocence civilians not to get caught up in any form of conflict.

I'm sure theres the same kind of awful scenes at road accidents, and other accidents here in Ireland. Would you like to see that on the news every evening?

easy guv'nor

D-Generate wrote: »

Is the presence of Hamas terrorists dead on the ground and walking amongst the civilians not a sign that the IDF are targeting combatants rather than civilians? If Hamas had half the equipment that the IDF have then we can be sure that they would use it directly against civilians. One side is always going to have more power than the other, I'm glad its in the Israeli's hands rather than those that endorse the murder of Jews as party of their organizations policy.

I suppose we're getting away from the censorship issue, but is it acceptable to target "combatants" when you know that innocent people, children, are going to get killed. Surely its the Israeli Army's responsibility to make sure innocent people don't get killed at all. What this means in practice I suppose is that the Israeli Army should send in soldiers to attack Hamas instead of lobbing in Bombs.

easy guv'nor

BostonB wrote: »

I'm sure theres the same kind of awful scenes at road accidents, and other accidents here in Ireland. Would you like to see that on the news every evening?

Well, yes. It would certainly afffect attitudes towards drink driving and speeding.

Kold

There are plenty of places on the internet where you can host what you want (exc. CP), Youtube unfortunately isn't one of them.

Steve.Pseudonym

easy guv'nor wrote: »

I suppose we're getting away from the censorship issue, but is it acceptable to target "combatants" when you know that innocent people, children, are going to get killed. Surely its the Israeli Army's responsibility to make sure innocent people don't get killed at all. What this means in practice I suppose is that the Israeli Army should send in soldiers to attack Hamas instead of lobbing in Bombs.

Well you can look at that from different points of view, for example while I was watching the video I was thinking how terrible it is that Hamas are continuing to use civilians as human shields. Like me, you might blame Hamas for their deaths, for putting them in harms way rather than evacuating them from areas which they know very well contain weapons or their own personnel. Also, Israel does leaflet drops to warn about airstrikes, so there is some warning.

Neamhshuntasach

mikemac wrote: »

There is no denying this is in the video:

I seen one instance of it. That other fella made it seem like it was a video of Hamas members only tending to Hamas members by stripping their weapons and fatigues. There was about 95% civilians in that video.

easy guv'nor

Steve.Pseudonym wrote: »

Well you can look at that from different points of view, for example while I was watching the video I was thinking how terrible it is that Hamas are continuing to use civilians as human shields. Like me, you might blame Hamas for their deaths, for putting them in harms way rather than evacuating them from areas which they know very well contain weapons or their own personnel. Also, Israel does leaflet drops to warn about airstrikes, so there is some warning.

No doubt Hamas are guilty of using standard guerilla tactics, but the aysymetric nature of the conflict, the overwhelming Israeli military and economic power means that in my opinion the Israelis have the responsibility to ensure that no innocent civilians are killed.

Glad to see this thread back by the way, it dissappeared for about half an hour there.

Beer is Life

D-Generate wrote: »

Is the presence of Hamas terrorists dead on the ground and walking amongst the civilians not a sign that the IDF are targeting combatants rather than civilians?

What makes me angry about this video is the IDF are targeting and killing Hamas personnel with zero regard for collateral damage. The IDF should be assassinating these targets with special ops, poison and other covert methods not dropping 1000 lbs bombs on a mortar truck in the middle of a crowded street. Totally out of proportion and we are right to be outraged by it

easy guv'nor

Exactly.

CiaranC

Sickening video

Hogzy

Well what do people usually think happens when bombs are dropped in urban areas?
I dont suppose the bomb emits a loud noise telling people to evacuate before it explodes and then scans for anyone in the building!!!In Iraq it was the same! Sept 11th was the same, London Bombings were the same!
Unfortunatly they are the harsh realities of war! How anybody can actually give the order to go to war i will never know!

Latchy

You wont see that on bbc/itn/rte .I found it very difficult to view .
.