Free Overtime !

SoupyNorman

Interesting observation I've made since finishing college and joining the young professional working world.


I find it amazing to see so many people working hours and hours overtime each week which they dont get paid for.

The main reason that seems to cause this is heavy handed managers manufacturing situations so that the employee feels responsible for keeping the client happy, for instance in the last job there was about 40 people on my floor...about 5-6 supervisors, a manager and then the administrative staff who, got the lowest wages, took the most abuse and worked the longest hours, oh yeah and at least one every day cried. After 5 the supervisors and managers were out the door I might add!

I wont go on about that place anymore but you get my drift, do you ever find yourself in situations where you've ended up working overtime and not being paid?


I would never let myself end up in such a situation, whether by accident or by the constructive bullying methods used by snotty managers and supervisors. I am reasonable however (you may not agree ) as I can understand having to stay on an hour once in a blue moon maybe.


For me, the bottom line is, When you strip away all the If's, Buts and maybes....You work, You get paid!

sadista

I totally agree with you bravestarr, but some people are and will always continue to be idiots when it comes to situations like this.

Started happening to me a couple months ago when I started my new job and they were all nice about it, trying to get us to do a few hours here and there and telling us we would accrue paid time off in lieu (totally not worth it in my opinion) instead of overtime.
So I obliged maybe once or twice and then it got to a stage when one employee was leaving and they couldnt get someone else to fill the position in time and there was a 60 hour gap (5 x 12hr shifts).Management freaked out, asked me and a colleague to do the extra time between us, for time in lieu. We both said no, only if we get paid overtime and they were so desperate they literally said 'you can have whatever you want!!'.

Since then when i've been asked to do overtime I make sure im getting paid for it and they dont argue. I think all it takes is a little assertiveness and they will realise that you're not gonna let them feck you around.

Doing overtime right now as we speak!its gonna be paying for a lovely two week holiday to orlando in a few months!:D

mikemac

People are suckers and unless you are getting a management salary you shouldn't be working for free.
Once in a while might be ok as as long as it's expected, like maybe tax deadlines for accountants around November, everyone in the industry knows it. Or some IT project once in a while.
But if people are forced to work mega hours I'd be asking what sort of planning did management even bother to do

In our place with get overtime. Hours are 9-5:30 but it could 7:30am to 10pm some days and I wouldn't do it without overtime.
Hell, overtime is over 40% of my salary

We don't get paid for lunch so I take the hour and this was even commented on in my review

If you consistently work overtime for free your employer will expect it. They might even make your teammates redunadant and get you to pick up the slack.
And if you are asked to work it and get time in lieu, unless you have that in writing you are a sucker.

Someone is going to reply back, people should be grateful to have a job. Maybe so but I've been in too many places where management cut staff numbers and expect the other staff to work 1-2 extra hours a day for nothing.

sadista wrote: »

Doing overtime right now as we speak!its gonna be paying for a lovely two week holiday to orlando in a few months!:D

And do you get paid to post on boards??? Back to work you!

SoupyNorman

mikemac wrote:

And do you get paid to post on boards??? Back to work you!

In work myself! Work on a 24-7 shift so I'm always on OT (Forgot to mention that)

321654

Most salaried job contracts specify something like this -

"You may be required to work extra hours from time to time as part of you normal working week."

I think that should be illegal to put that in a contract of employment. And will ask for it to be removed whenever i see it. Usually they remove it. If they dont i get a different job.

Though sometimes **** hits the fan and i have to stay late. If i do i come in late next day as HR dept specifically says that they will not pay overtime. It was brought up once that i came in lae and i just said - "Unless you can tell me what time i left last night and the amount of hourse ive worked this week, then dont talk to me. When you find out come back and try complaining". They never annoyed me after that.

If you do overtime that they wont pay for, make sure to take the hours back straight away off the start or end of the next day. Employers will say "give and take" but it always seems to be just Give from you and nothing from them.

sadista

mikemac wrote: »

And do you get paid to post on boards??? Back to work you!

I take a a 10 min boardsie break every hour to prevent me from going insane

Eoin

I only got overtime when I was temping in Bank of Ireland, and it was very closely monitored. You had to have a very good reason to be in late. Since I've worked in IT, I have not received any overtime. I've had to work weekends, late nights etc. A bit of a pain, but they were flexible enough if I had to take a few hours off.

BostonB

Problem arises when it becomes accepted as the norm.

helimachoptor

Wont name names, but while i was in college, i was working in a call entre part time. Go a contract with the company for a project but was still being paid by the call centre (outsourced) Anyway I was meant to do 2 days at the weekend and 3 days during the week on the project but it was so big I was doing 5 days on the project and 2 at the weekend. Now I was getting a decent rate of €15 an hour in the call centre but after 40 hours you get double time. I was doing 60-80 hours a week total and making a fortune.

Anyway call centre told me I couldnt work those hours, some H & S bull ****. Anyway i got the PM to pay me for the OT via the projet budget and all of a sudden I could do as much OT as I wanted!

No problem with me working 12 hour days 7 days a week if the all centre doesnt have to pay for it!! crazy fools!!

Shelflife

sadista wrote: »

I take a a 10 min boardsie break every hour to prevent me from going insane

nice one , that would mean in a std 7hr day you dont work for an 70 mins a day X 5 days = 350 mins which is nearly 6 hrs which is nearly a days work that your employer pays you for doing nothing.

good for you.

Shelflife

btw i believe that if you work you get paid, either in cash or time in lieu.

constant ot is not a good situation to be in, as performance will untimatley decline.

Wonga

I work in fund accounting and there is always overtime. Due to having so many deadlines you have to stay on top of the work and that always means staying in late. It's a very sould destroying job!

taram

In my retail job if you're closing you usually have to stay about 20 mins after closing to clean up, which isn't paid. But yeah, it's expected and if we don't work it, we'd be left go next time our contracts are up. Wish I had the guts to stand up to management but need my job too much.

sadista

Shelflife wrote: »

nice one , that would mean in a std 7hr day you dont work for an 70 mins a day X 5 days = 350 mins which is nearly 6 hrs which is nearly a days work that your employer pays you for doing nothing.

good for you.

Do I detect a hint of sarcasm in there somewhere??:p
I do my overtime at home, in my bed. The time scale in which i have to get my work done is pre agreed and I always get it done quicker hence I can afford to take the 10 min break. They pay me overtime for the task I am assigned, not for the amount of work I can squish into one day.

Shelflife

Interesting, so say for example you are paid to translate 5 pages per hour and you can do it in 30mins , do you just twiddle your thumbs (boards)for 30mins?? and then do another 5 pages and then boards again???

just curious.

sadista

Yup thats pretty much it. They give me what they think is a fair amount of time to get it done. But I always get it done a bit faster.:cool:

shaca

Been working in the same place for 8 years. I reduced my hours to part time in September cos I was only after coming back after maternity leave and wanted to spend time with my baby. I was the fool who always went over and above the call of duty. I would even bring paper work home with me to make sure I didnt fall behind. And what thanks do I get for it - my hours were cut to 7 hours a week last Friday. Just goes to show you the more you do the less thanks you get. It was a great start to the new year.

Munster_Gal

I work for a recruitment agency where I look after temps for a large client. I'm expected to be on call 24/7 because of business needs and because that's what our client pays us for... however, I dont get paid to stay back late or answer the phone after my finish time of 4.30pm!!!!
I've decided that in 2009 I'm going to do things differently. The way the economy is going I could end up jobless anyway so may as well go out with a bang

AARRRGH

I work in IT and I get paid for any overtime I do. In previous companies it wasn't like that though.

My general attitude is I will do it every now and then, but only if I feel they will be flexible for me every now and then. If I find they aren't willing to do that, then I won't be available for free overtime.

SoupyNorman

AARRRGH wrote: »

I work in IT and I get paid for any overtime I do. In previous companies it wasn't like that though.

My general attitude is I will do it every now and then, but only if I feel they will be flexible for me every now and then. If I find they aren't willing to do that, then I won't be available for free overtime.

I'm pretty much in the same situation, the look of confusion on some managers faces when you inform them you are leaving on time!

And further problems arise when you have workmates who bow to every command undermining the statement you're making.


I also dont agree with Time in Lieu, firstly because you should be given a choice of money or TIL and secondly it is highly likely that you will not be given the opportunity to use it AND you will not get it in writing should your Annual Leave be incorrect, which will probably be the case... I know my argument here is basically hearsay but from what I've seen and heard anecdotally its the case in the majority.

AARRRGH

bravestarr082 wrote: »

arise when you have workmates who bow to every command undermining the statement you're making.

Yeah, that can be a problem alright. They make it appear that you are doing something wrong, when in fact they're the mongos...

I know a woman who used to work for Eircom and she found everyone stayed late and worked about an hour of free overtime every night. There was a sort of stand-off, where everyone was afraid to be the first person to go home on time.

In the end it started depressing her so she started going home on time. People then started being bitchy to her... as if she wasn't pulling her weight.

Again, the problem was them, not her...

I think as well though, it does depend on the company. I used to work for a startup where I would work long hours sometimes. It didn't bother me at all because I could basically work whatever hours I wanted. Their niceness made me ok with a bit of free overtime.

hobochris

"You may be required to work extra hours from time to time as part of you normal working week."

when this is in contracts people seem to mis-interpret this as working extra hours for free. Its simply stating that you may be required to work extra hours outside of normal hours. If your working week envolves getting paid on an hourly basis as most do then you should get paid for the extra hours.

Eoin

AARRRGH wrote: »

I know a woman who used to work for Eircom and she found everyone stayed late and worked about an hour of free overtime every night. There was a sort of stand-off, where everyone was afraid to be the first person to go home on time.

It also works the other way in eircom - you get snotty remarks from all the union heads (and I.T. is full of them) for doing anything above and beyond. There were also people who completely milked the system when it came to being on call, but that's another matter.

I put in some long hours there when it came to deployments and major support issues, and usually got my time in lieu. My boss was also very flexible if I needed a few hours off for whatever reasons. I might not have gotten extra money for it directly, but I reckon it stood to me when it came to pay review and bonus time.

AARRRGH

eoin wrote: »

I might not have gotten extra money for it directly, but I reckon it stood to me when it came to pay review and bonus time.

Yeah, this is a big factor. Manager's really do (or at least, should) value people who go "above and beyond" to make their life easy.

Climate Expert

People who work overtime for free are scum.
They just make working life that much harder for somebody who just wants their career to progress without resorting to unpaid work.

Climate Expert

taram wrote: »

In my retail job if you're closing you usually have to stay about 20 mins after closing to clean up, which isn't paid. But yeah, it's expected and if we don't work it, we'd be left go next time our contracts are up. Wish I had the guts to stand up to management but need my job too much.

Have the guts. If they make any kind of fuss about you demanding pay then they let you lot later on you've got a serious claim. So many people on this board never fight for their rights.

Eoin

Climate Expert wrote: »

People who work overtime for free are scum.
They just make working life that much harder for somebody who just wants their career to progress without resorting to unpaid work.

Scum? Just a little bit over the top.

Climate Expert

eoin wrote: »

Scum? Just a little bit over the top.

I thought about it and its not. The effect they have on other peoples lives and the lives of their families is massive.

Eoin

Climate Expert wrote: »

I thought about it and its not. The effect they have on other peoples lives and the lives of their families is massive.

What about people who bust their arses off at work and do more than the people who do exactly what they are contracted to - but in the same amount of time?

SoupyNorman

Climate Expert wrote: »

People who work overtime for free are scum.
They just make working life that much harder for somebody who just wants their career to progress without resorting to unpaid work.

Yeh I'm pretty sure you've missed the point. On the whole its bullying and fear that causes this, I dont think people are pro-actively seeking to stay behind for free in an ultimate goal of seeking praise by devaluing the labor.

Eoin

bravestarr082 wrote: »

Yeh I'm pretty sure you've missed the point. On the whole its bullying and fear that causes this, I dont think people are pro-actively seeking to stay behind for free in an ultimate goal of seeking praise by devaluing the labor.

I don't know - some people might think that they are doing their long term career prospects some good by doing a bit extra.

Edit - I don't agree with people being bullied into working for free at all, especially as employers probably know that it's a hard time to look for work but if people choose to do extra work in the hopes of advancing themselves, that's their right and fair play to them.

sadista

is anyone else a shift worker here?I know this is a bit off topic but what are public hol entitlements with regards to xmas,stephens day and new years day?

ToxicPaddy

Well I work in IT and usually do end up doing extra hours, working weekends etc.. dont get overtime, but do get time in lieu, sure we get it but to be honest I'd prefer my weekend/evenigns to myself..

However as a few have said here, my boss is a decent guy who really does go for the whole work/life balance thing, so if he sees us sitting around spending too much time, he'll walk over, tell us to leave and is very flexible about if working late one evening, not to bother coming in until lunchtime the following day or taking a half day or say a Fri off that week..

So dont mind doing it when it has to be done.


However, some companies I have worked for in the past would milk you for every hour of the day, happily quoting HR policies when it suited them, but point blank refusing to follow any HR policy or law when it came to them milking you for every penny you were worth, one in particular was so bad at it and needless to say it came back to bite them bigstyle when they started making people redundant only to find they were doing it illegally and were reported to a certain gov dept.. and it cost them very very dearly financially..

CSC

I have often stayed back in the evenng to get extra work done, catch up etc. Sometimes it has to be done. I often find that sometimes it can be the most productive time of the day as after 5 there are far less distractions.

gino85

my supervisor stoped asking me to do overtime, should i take that as a good sign? lol

SoupyNorman

gino85 wrote: »

my supervisor stoped asking me to do overtime, should i take that as a good sign? lol

Take payment as a good sign...

Shelflife

I think in some places the extra hours are the norm and you just get on with it, the first job i had no one left early and you ended up doing 3-4 hours per week extra.

there wasnt any pressure , it was just the norm there. but its a bad habit to get into.

its ok now and again if your salaried/management but anyone on the shop floor should be paid.

GreenHell

Working IT and it is pretty much the norm to do unpaid over time all the time. Its the culture there and you know if you weren't someone is going to start b*t*hin and that would effect performance review. Just get on with it really.

Eoin

GreenHell wrote: »

Working IT and it is pretty much the norm to do unpaid over time all the time. Its the culture there and you know if you weren't someone is going to start b*t*hin and that would effect performance review. Just get on with it really.

I agree it's common in IT, but doing it "all of the time", affecting performance reviews and bitching sounds like poor management to me.

busman

I work as a salary employee so don't get paid overtime, but they dock me if I'm late!
Also we don't any sick days :-(

I know I should look for something else but at the moment happy to have a job!

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

For those of you who are narrow minded enough to think that working overtime for free is idiotic, I say to you, goodluck with your promotions, goodluck with getting noticed etc etc.

While I do not agree with being forced to do overtime I do believe that some jobs do require it. Do it, get on with your work, there are plenty of people who would love to be in your possition...

BostonB

Cameron Rapping Crosswalk wrote: »

For those of you who are narrow minded enough to think that working overtime for free is idiotic, I say to you, goodluck with your promotions, goodluck with getting noticed etc etc.

While I do not agree with being forced to do overtime I do believe that some jobs do require it. Do it, get on with your work, there are plenty of people who would love to be in your possition...

Based on years of experience, working extra hours for free is rarely worth it. Its a crutch of bad managment. Fine if its done once in a blue moon to over a crisis, but if every day/week is a crisis, then theres bigger issues. If your unemployed thats entirely different. Even then as soon as you get something better you'll change jobs, taking all your experience with you.

Climate Expert

Cameron Rapping Crosswalk wrote: »

For those of you who are narrow minded enough to think that working overtime for free is idiotic, I say to you, goodluck with your promotions, goodluck with getting noticed etc etc.

While I do not agree with being forced to do overtime I do believe that some jobs do require it. Do it, get on with your work, there are plenty of people who would love to be in your possition...

And good luck with your horrible life and messed up kids.

AARRRGH

Climate Expert wrote: »

People who work overtime for free are scum.

Climate Expert wrote: »

And good luck with your horrible life and messed up kids.

WTF...?

eth0_

Climate Expert - consider this your first and last warning.

RangeR

Climate Expert wrote: »

And good luck with your horrible life and messed up kids.

Not a very nice comment at all, dude.

SeekUp

eoin wrote: »

What about people who bust their arses off at work and do more than the people who do exactly what they are contracted to - but in the same amount of time?

Exactly -- those work habits would more likely continue if both parties stayed late anyway. As in, person A is still going to get more work done than person B, whether or not they both stay late or leave early.

I've seen it often, where people stay late or come in early just to put in face time. It's rather annoying to me . . . I stay late/come in early/work through lunch if there's work to be done, not just to prove to my supervisor that I'm a good worker. You see the results in my work, not on the amount of time I'm in the office. And when I leave, I'm more than happy to ask coworkers if they need anything, or if there's anything I can do to help their workload if they look swamped. And if they say no, then I'm gone, and I don't feel guilty about it.

My time is just as important to me as my company's time.

Eoin

The point I was trying to make is that there seems to be some bitterness towards people who do anything above what they are contracted for. That might be longer hours, or just plain working harder in the same hours - it doesn't really matter. Face time in the office is a completely different debate.

My time is just as important to me as my company's time.

Well, it depends on whether you think you are getting anything out of working extra. If not, and especially if you are being bullied into it, then that's not on. But there is a world of difference between that and people who want to advance themselves, or God forbid, enjoy what they do.

I am sick of the begrudgery that one can get for that - normally by people who are on a permanent "go-slow". And that's not aimed at you at all by the way.

SoupyNorman

Cameron Rapping Crosswalk wrote: »

For those of you who are narrow minded enough to think that working overtime for free is idiotic, I say to you, goodluck with your promotions, goodluck with getting noticed etc etc.

While I do not agree with being forced to do overtime I do believe that some jobs do require it. Do it, get on with your work, there are plenty of people who would love to be in your possition...

So by your reasoning, you need to be tolerant of exploitation to get a promotion! As I have said, I'm all to aware that a bit of OT here and a bit of OT there is acceptable but under no circumstances should it be something that perpetuates recognition. I mean, you cant measure performance through hours worked...Many individuals can do twice the work in half the time of others.

In my view, if a company offers promotions to people who stay in the office the longest (all the while devaluing their Salary) You'll be expected to work even more after a promotion.


I believe that people who are narrow minded enough to work (excessive) OT for free in the hope of promotion is in a race to the bottom.

Eoin

Again, the issue of face time in the office is a completely different topic.

BostonB

In my experience most people who work for free generally get rewarded with yet more free work and its usually the work no one else will do. Rarely is it rewarded with promotion.