A New Political Party: Manifesto suggestions...

Darragh29

(1) All TD's salaries to be cut to 50K.

(2) No more unvouched expenses and overhaul what can be claimed. Bare minimum in line with private sector.

(3) Bye bye the 4,000 Euro/hour governent jet. See www.buyandsell.ie for more info.

(4) "See this new chainsaw we bought??? We're taking this to public sector inefficiencies & cosy public sector jobs!"

(5) Government state Mercs, get rid of them, www.buyandsell.ie for more info.

(6) Paying 1 billion Euro a year in foreign aid. Yeah, we'll get back to you when we can afford it.

(7) Payments to political parties, "eh, sorry lads, end of!"

Please add as you see fit...!

I don't see how a credible political party with the right people and a manifesto along the line of above couldn't get elected!

Frankie Lee

Increased government support to small farmers and co-ops.

End to co-location and real HSE reform.
Full investigation into practices involved in the privatisation of the health services and convictions if necessary.

Reform of planning laws.

TD's salaries to the average industrial wage alternatively.

Foreign Aid Targets to be met and Ireland to take a more involved role in improving living conditions & human rights in third world countries regardless.
This may lead to a rift in the party I know.

mikemac

I agree with most of your suggestions Frankie Lee, a ninja edit there I see

Hey Darragh29, I see a lot of your posts and you've very strong views. But realy cutting the salary of 166 TDs, the cars of 15 ministers and a government jet is a drop in the ocean.
The money that would save could be spent by the public sector in one day without anyone even taking notice.

So I see you've posted a chainsaw to public sector ineffencies but to take on the likes of the militant unions will result in strikes. Just me, but the ESB are the first to spring to mind.
Are we ready for it, are we sure the government won't back down? I dunno, it can be done but it's going to take strong leadership to do it.

+1 for 1billion in foreign aid, why is this spent? And is it to increase, I know 0.7% GDP was the target?
I started a thread on this months back (it was 900 million back then) and I got flamed out of this forum
To be fair, it is spent on specific projects and not handed over to corrupt governments but 1 billion would plug a lot of holes and build a lot of classrooms where there are only prefabs right now.

Darragh29

mikemac wrote: »

I agree with most of your suggestions Frankie Lee, a ninja edit there I see

Hey Darragh29, I see a lot of your posts and you've very strong views. But realy cutting the salary of 166 TDs, the cars of 15 ministers and a government jet is a drop in the ocean.
The money that would save could be spent by the public sector in one day without anyone even taking notice.

So I see you've posted a chainsaw to public sector ineffencies but to take on the likes of the militant unions will result in strikes. Just me, but the ESB are the first to spring to mind.
Are we ready for it, are we sure the government won't back down? I dunno, it can be done but it's going to take strong leadership to do it.

+1 for 1billion in foreign aid, why is this spent? And is it to increase, I know 0.7% GDP was the target?
I started a thread on this months back (it was 900 million back then) and I got flamed out of this forum
To be fair, it is spent on specific projects and not handed over to corrupt governments but 1 billion would plug a lot of holes and build a lot of classrooms where there are only prefabs right now.

Agreed, the money saved above would be a drop in the ocean, but it would send out a clear statement to the country that a new show is in town, there is no more carry on and taking the utter p*ss with the people of the country and taxpayers funds. Where excess and waste are identified, a torpedo is in!

ejmaztec

I think that the chainsaw mentioned in (4) would be better used on the people mentioned in (1).

Anything after that we can play by ear.

The Raven.

Frankie Lee wrote: »

Reform of planning laws.

NEW PLANNING legislation to be published early in 2009 will put an end to opportunist rezoning of land by county councillors, according to Minister for the Environment John Gormley.

The Planning and Development Bill 2009 will no longer permit excessive zoning of development land, a phenomenon that has become a "major problem" in recent years, Mr Gormley said.

The Bill is designed to allow an adequate supply of zoned and serviced land to ensure that house prices are not forced upwards and that economic development is maintained.

However, it will also outlaw practices where councillors zoned far more land for development than was required.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1229/1229728603897.html

I don't know why he waited so long to do this. So much damage has been done, and is in the process of being done. There are still plans for huge housing and apartment blocks in spite of the fact that they are not selling. They should be prevented from building any more until the existing ones are sold or rented, and a genuine need for more occurs, with the necessary infrastructure.

I have heard these sort of promises before. Do you think they will happen or do we need a new political party? I can't imagine a new party getting their act together on these issues anytime soon.

Darragh29

mikemac wrote: »

But realy cutting the salary of 166 TDs, the cars of 15 ministers and a government jet is a drop in the ocean.

My take on this is if you want to cut costs effectively, don't try to reinvent the wheel in the process, just look at where it has been done most sucessfully before and then understand and copy what was done there.

To my mind, Ryanair is an good example of an organisation that manages to keep costs to an absolute minimum so that it not just can compete sucessfully with other operator, but Ryanair does this so sucessfully that the competition cannot compete with Ryanair. O' Leary doesn't just target high expenditure items and eliminate them. He focuses on everything, from staff charging mobiles at work to forcing suppliers to give free ice cubes for drinks that they sell on planes. It's a "take care of the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves", philosophy, that you have to agree, does what it says on the tin, which is eliminate waste.

This is why I think we need to look at huge cuts in TD's salaries, sell state mercs, as for unvouched expenses, don't get me started, and call www.buyandsell.ie in relation to a government jet that costs 4K A FU*KING HOUR to run! When the govenment get there own renumeration down to reasonable level, maybe then they will be in a position to ask other exhorbantly paid people in the public sector to follow them.

Ordinary man

I'd like to see accountability brought in. If managers or minsters mess up as bad as they have, they should pay. Strip 90% of their assets. All pensions should be performance linked. Bad term = no pension.

Jim_Are_Great

I suggest actual devolution of governmental power from central to local level. This would manifest itself in many ways: directly elected mayors with limited executive competence, reduction of influence of county managers and similarly unelected budgetary officials. And so on.

turgon

Why should TD's get payed only the average industrial wage? Their job has a lot more pressure and responsibility than the average industrial worker.

Nuttzz

there is an arguement to say that the worse a TD is paid the more likely he is to take a backhander

Darragh29

turgon wrote: »

Why should TD's get payed only the average industrial wage? Their job has a lot more pressure and responsibility than the average industrial worker.

I think 50K is well above the average industrial wage. I just threw that figure out, I think they are paid too much for what they do. Reduce it to 60K or 70K maybe, but over 100K for what they do is just wrong I think.

We've been paying ourselves way to much in this country I think, or certain sections of the workforce have. It seems to me that you are a nobody in this country if you are earning less than 60K, I think that is unsustainable.

What can you do with 100K a year that you cannot do with 60K??? This is where I think we have been going wrong, one person until recently had to have 2 or more properties, take the equivilent of two or more average industrial wages, have a car that is worth the value of one house??? Just pure greed, gimme gimme gimme, more more more, like drug addicts...

Darragh29

Nuttzz wrote: »

there is an arguement to say that the worse a TD is paid the more likely he is to take a backhander

I don't think the money is a factor in how a TD will vote on an issue. They operate as per the party whip, if they go against the whip, they are out of the party...

T runner

40% positive discrimination towards females standing for elections for all parties.
Works for progressive countries like Holland and Sweden.
This might brake the cycle of largely untalented guys from 1) (largely in FF and FG) and encourage a new type of male and female politician.

juuge

mikemac wrote: »

.....cutting the salary of 166 TDs, the cars of 15 ministers and a government jet is a drop in the ocean.
The money that would save could be spent by the public sector in one day without anyone even taking notice.

So? We do nothing then, is that it? The most effective change can be achieved by little changes. Don't try to bulldoze the problem but rather chip away at it and this way reform will happen. Because something doesn't have an immediate and rapid result is not an excuse for not doing it in the first place. I believe our politicians are by and large motivated by greed and power. Look at the likes of Ray Burke! Take his pension away - that'll hurt him. Look at Dick Roche even after he was dumped by Bertie he contines to crawl back and be seen beside Cowen at every opportunity. he doesn't do that for the good of the people of Wicklow, he does it for power. We don't need these type of people running our country. Change has to happen and happen now.

bmaxi

We don't need a new political party, what we need is to force the ones we have to act on behalf of the people rather than themselves. I have, over the years, seen manifestos that would have been the panacea for all our ills except for one thing, they were unworkable.
I believe that one thing motivates politicians more than anything else, fear. It can't have escaped notice how Cowen, Lenihan et al, scurried for cover in the face of an angry electorate after the Budget, I firmly believe that if we remove these individuals, along with the rest of the Cabinet, from Dail Eireann at the next election the transformation in politicians across the board would be remarkable. It surely can't be argued that these are the cream of the bunch and it would send out a message to all the political parties that no one has a God given right to be elected.
I need to be convinced on positive discrimination toward women, Labour in the UK adopted this and threw up some right turkeys. It could provide a situation where the likes of Coughlan and Flynn could be in Government rather than say, Bruton and Gilmore for no other reason than sex.

Vadrefjorde

We do need a new political party, for the simple reason that we don't have an opposition party. Over the last few years the opposition has time and again come out and backed the exisiting coalitions requests, with the exception of Sinn Fein in the Lisbon debate i guess, and then the good old discrediting them with history from 30 years ago dispenses with them.
The PD's are thankfully gone apart from the troll left behind who still presses ahead with PD idealogy in the HSE, by which i mean structuring it in such a way to make private health insurance a necessity.. for the benefit of private enterprise (maybe someone should tell her it won't work with a country full of dole queues).
What is missing is a party which is nationalistic in values and who is willing to stand up for the country, the recession is an inevitability, none of the current parties have an agenda or the ability to reverse that. I would vote for a party who had reverting to the punt and pulling out of the euro as a manifesto.
Right now we have a currency situation that has never been encountered before, we are tied in to the euro whereas before we were able to devalue our currency in tandem with sterling. We have a second referendum on a treaty which has already been voted on, and a government that doesn't have the backbone to tell Europe that we made a decision.
A green party that ditched their ethos and values after 24 hours in coalition and who will hopefully never preside in any form over this country again..

Darragh29

bmaxi wrote: »

We don't need a new political party, what we need is to force the ones we have to act on behalf of the people rather than themselves. I have, over the years, seen manifestos that would have been the panacea for all our ills except for one thing, they were unworkable.
I believe that one thing motivates politicians more than anything else, fear. It can't have escaped notice how Cowen, Lenihan et al, scurried for cover in the face of an angry electorate after the Budget, I firmly believe that if we remove these individuals, along with the rest of the Cabinet, from Dail Eireann at the next election the transformation in politicians across the board would be remarkable. It surely can't be argued that these are the cream of the bunch and it would send out a message to all the political parties that no one has a God given right to be elected.
I need to be convinced on positive discrimination toward women, Labour in the UK adopted this and threw up some right turkeys. It could provide a situation where the likes of Coughlan and Flynn could be in Government rather than say, Bruton and Gilmore for no other reason than sex.

I'm all for redemption, but I think one of the prerequisites for redemption to be possible is for remorse to be demonstrated. This government no more think they are a part of the economic catastrophe we are now experiencing, than the man on the moon.

I think there comes a time when you have to call something as you see it and deal with it as such, unpalatable and all as that may be. These people who call themselves a government are as removed from the people of this country as some far away yet-to-be-discovered solar system.

I can't understand how a group of decent respectable people have not emerged to fill this very obvious vacuum in our political system. Then and again, I read a quote over the Christmas from Mahatma Ghandi, "You need to be the change that you want to see in the world"...

I'm not into politics, other than making it my business to vote every time I have an opportunity, but what has happened here in recent months has made me more furious with every passing day! I wondered recently why I wasn't into politics, or almost hostile to people that were, and I ended up coming to the conclusion that it is just our particular flavour or brand of politics in Ireland, that I have a bad reaction to.

sock puppet

Vadrefjorde wrote: »

We do need a new political party, for the simple reason that we don't have an opposition party. Over the last few years the opposition has time and again come out and backed the exisiting coalitions requests, with the exception of Sinn Fein in the Lisbon debate i guess, and then the good old discrediting them with history from 30 years ago dispenses with them.
The PD's are thankfully gone apart from the troll left behind who still presses ahead with PD idealogy in the HSE, by which i mean structuring it in such a way to make private health insurance a necessity.. for the benefit of private enterprise (maybe someone should tell her it won't work with a country full of dole queues).
What is missing is a party which is nationalistic in values and who is willing to stand up for the country, the recession is an inevitability, none of the current parties have an agenda or the ability to reverse that. I would vote for a party who had reverting to the punt and pulling out of the euro as a manifesto.
Right now we have a currency situation that has never been encountered before, we are tied in to the euro whereas before we were able to devalue our currency in tandem with sterling. We have a second referendum on a treaty which has already been voted on, and a government that doesn't have the backbone to tell Europe that we made a decision.
A green party that ditched their ethos and values after 24 hours in coalition and who will hopefully never preside in any form over this country again..

Odd that you stress the need for a new party yet are happy with the demise of the PDs.

bmaxi

We've seen, in the shape of the PDs and Greens, new parties arrive on the scene full of ideology and verve, to do what? Strange as it may seem the PDs were seen as a breath of fresh air and much was expected of them, they were going to change the face of politics in this country, what happened?
Fact is, there are parties in existence that have, as their ethos, nationalism and a concern for the well being of the nation, they are FF, FG and Labour. The problem is, those within the parties have chosen to desert their core values and sacrifice their ethics on the altar of greed. It is not the vehicles that need to be changed but the drivers.
We all should take our share of the blame for consistently re-electing gombeens, fraudsters and cheats, for what good reason I've yet to discover.

pseudonym1

Audits audits and external audits. Would want to know where every €100 went!
Promote and enhance arts and crafts esp indigenous products.
Re - valuate and arrange welfare system no gratified payments to lay abouts those taking advantage expect work in return for payment.
low interest repayable grant scheme
Allow administration of the abortion pill
Ensure teachers sit and mark exams - nobody else gets 3 months off!
TBH dont know what would do about healthcare system.
All for now - so when what are we going to call our new party??

P. Breathnach

pseudonym1 wrote: »

All for now - so when what are we going to call our new party??

Borrow a name from the UK: The Monster Raving Loony Party.

HydeRoad

Is it not conceiveable that Sinn Féin might become the party that fills the void, now that we are facing into the kind of desperate economic climate that such a left wing party thrives in?

I sincerely hope that no matter how desperate the people of Ireland become for a change of government, that they do not, in the face of massive unemployment and prospective social upheaval, fall for the charms of a party who have a repugnant recent history, in a class apart from anything Fianna Fáil ever done.

The economic recession will be least of our problems if this band start winning support enough to sway the next general election.

Do not doubt Fianna Fáil's ability to suck a large slice of lemon and copulate with these people if it means hanging onto power at any cost. What a merry gang we would have in charge then!

Vadrefjorde

sock puppet wrote: »

Odd that you stress the need for a new party yet are happy with the demise of the PDs.

What is odd about that, many russians stressed they needed a new political party yet were happy with the demise of the soviet union.
I am very happy with the demise of the progressive democrats, they were the epitomy of what was wrong with this country.

Hagar

We need more gaols, lots of them. Real gaols, without colour tvs and luxury living. Places that criminals will be afraid to end up in. We also need judges with the sense to stop being bleeding-heart, tree-hugging, touchy-feely liberals and put the scum in the gaols for a long time. Then the decent law abiding people can get on with their lives.

Darragh29

Hagar wrote: »

We need more gaols, lots of them. Real gaols, without colour tvs and luxury living. Places that criminals will be afraid to end up in. We also need judges with the sense to stop being bleeding-heart, tree-hugging, touchy-feely liberals and put the scum in the gaols for a long time. Then the decent law abiding people can get on with their lives.

I was thinking about this over the Christmas, after reading Paul William's book "Gang Wars", and I think more than prison spaces, the judges are part of the problem. The above book mentions several occasions where criminals out on bail murdered people, and these criminals had a long history of violence, it's not like they got bail on an understanding that they were not a risk to society and then unexpectly murdered someone after getting bail.

I think the answer to this is to "performance manage", those that make the decision with regard to bail, obviously the judge. If some scumbag who has a history of armed robbery, drug dealing and absolute mayhem, is before the court and a judge gives him bail, and that guy goes out and murders someone, then the judge should lose his job by default. Then we might see judges being a bit more careful with regard to throwing bail at hardened scumbags.

@ Hyderoad: I never really understood the link between Sinn Fein and underworld criminality until I read the above book, which shows the movers and shakers and how they were working hand in hand with major gangland figures while also fronting the CPAD (Concerned Parents Against Drugs), movement. Well worth a read.

murphaph

I would like to see our entire political system overhauled starting with the county councils;

1) Abolish loads of the county councils as they are simply too small to be economically viable. Replace them with perhaps 5 regional authorites. No city councils because land use around cities needs to be controlled. Creating administrative boundaries around cities has led to an explosion of doughnut planning.

2) The national system in this country is a joke, a glorified county council with overpaid county councillors who draft laws at a painfuly slow rate (that is actually the primary function of Dail Eireann, to pass bills into acts and create law, not to discuss Mrs. Kelly's septic tank problem!). We need to accept that our wealth is no longer derived primarily from the countryside and realise we are more urban a nation than many. To this end I believe that rural Ireland is ridiculously over-represented in Dail Eireann and the cities should take precedence, especially Dublin.

3) End the nonsensical 'jobs for the boys' practices of decentralisation and move everything back to the empty office space in the capital city. People in the country need to to realise we can't create civil service jobs in Letterkenny and Shannon etc. just to avoid them having to leave home to find a job. Peope leave home in rural Bavaria and Baden-Wurtemberg and move to Munich and Stuttgart to work. They don't expect the federal states of Germany to move civil service functions all over the place to provide those jobs. It is totally inefficient to be sending letters to a million people in Dublin from a rural outpost in the middle of nowhere.

4) Encourage rationalisation of our farms. It is undoubtedly a legacy of british rule that we have such small pockets of barely viable farmland. We should see these farms amalgamated as happened across much of Europe.

5) Develop Dublin, Cork, Limerick and possibly Waterford and Galway to proper city status. Encourage people to move to the cities and create the critical masses required. Immediately end one-off housing development which has destroyed large swathes of our once beautiful land. Invest large sums in these cities to make them beautiful, attractive urban spaces where people WANT to move to.

6) Build as many prisons as it takes to remove the scum element from these cities. No luxuries. Forget about 'reforming' criminals. Provide decent education to all children so they can make informed choices. End the practice of building social housing ghettos-they just prolong the circle of deprivation and 'chips on shoulders'-it may be painful for people who paid full whack for a house/apartment to live next to someone who got it for free but the children will play together and hopefully the children in the 'free' house will aspire to something better than their parents, thus ending the cycle.

7) Drugs are a massive problem nationwide. As much as 70% of robbery/burglary etc directly funds drug misuse. Drug dealing on all levels (from corner pusher to major importer) should result in life imprisonment due to the devastation drug abuse brings to families and communities. Drug users should have proper facilities available to them to try to come off drugs-give them say 3 attempts then lock them up as a lost cause. The rest of society should not shoulder the burden of someone else's drug habbit.

8) Wholesale institutional reform of the public sector. We NEED quality public services but we also need to pay the going rates, reduced slightly due to the secure nature of employment in the public sector. Introduce Taylor laws intot he public sector-no striking allowed. You don't like it? Don't join the public sector!

9) Introduce military/civil service for all persons reaching 18 years of age.

I would like to point out that I am not 'right-wing' and am a socialist at heart but lazy bloodsuckers destroy it for everyone else and need removing from the equation.

jank

Bring back 3rd level fees.
Invest in one or two universities that are of international standing.
I would be in favour of a federal system where the regions/provinces have more of a say in their own affairs.
Longer school year for all.
Make prisoners work while in the community while in jail.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Darragh29

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

No, what I'm saying is that I agree with you, the way in which this country is administrated, has to be overhauled. A country simply cannot be run in a sustainable manner, along the lines of how this country is presently being run.

But before we can expect anyone to put their shoulder to the wheel, I think we need people in office who will first of all, be in a position to lead.

You cannot lead people anywhere when you are telling them that they will experience the wrath of the recession, and face redundancy, while you are driving around in a car worth over 100K. You cannot lead a person who could be looking at their house being repossessed by the bank, when your monthly unvouched expense bill, in all likelyhood, exceeds the arrears on their mortgage.

This is not leadership, it is the opposite of leadership. I think in order to be able to lead people, you have to firstly be able to identify with them. This is why I'm saying that example always has to come from the top. You cannot preach to people and expect them to take you seriously when you are living beyond your means yourself.

So what we cannot afford now, we must manage without. Nobody else in this country gets an allowance just for turning up at work, so I don't see why our TD's should get one. Everyone else in this country has to vouch for their expenses, so I don't see why the rules should be any different for TD's.

A 4,000 Euro an hour state jet is actually unbelievable.

Permabear

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jmayo

Darragh29 wrote: »

(1) All TD's salaries to be cut to 50K.

(2) No more unvouched expenses and overhaul what can be claimed. Bare minimum in line with private sector.

(3) Bye bye the 4,000 Euro/hour governent jet. See www.buyandsell.ie for more info.

(4) "See this new chainsaw we bought??? We're taking this to public sector inefficiencies & cosy public sector jobs!"

(5) Government state Mercs, get rid of them, www.buyandsell.ie for more info.

(6) Paying 1 billion Euro a year in foreign aid. Yeah, we'll get back to you when we can afford it.

(7) Payments to political parties, "eh, sorry lads, end of!"

Please add as you see fit...!

I don't see how a credible political party with the right people and a manifesto along the line of above couldn't get elected!

A few big problems with some of these proposals.
You can't expect someone to run for TD if all they get out of it is 50k ?
The allowances and expenses should be looked at alright.
The salary of taoiseach and ministers should be cut alright but not down to ridiculous amount that one could earn in 9 to 5 job.
The number of junior ministers cut and the perks chopped, but you will get people even more willing to take backhanders if you cut salaries to 50k.
Only minister get government cars and they are all environmentally friendly ones.
Trying to sell mercs at this time won't be easy
If you stop payments to political parties then where do they get the money from, more dodgy developers ?
If anything public funding is something that should be almost mandatory.
BTW cut the leaders allowance for independents.

T runner wrote: »

40% positive discrimination towards females standing for elections for all parties.
Works for progressive countries like Holland and Sweden.
This might brake the cycle of largely untalented guys from 1) (largely in FF and FG) and encourage a new type of male and female politician.

Yeah we sure do need more females of the quality of Marys O'Rourke, Hannafin, Coughlan and Harney :rolleyes:
Just noticed they are all bleedin Marys.
Maybe more females but they can't be called Mary.

murphaph wrote: »

I would like to see our entire political system overhauled starting with the county councils;

4) Encourage rationalisation of our farms. It is undoubtedly a legacy of british rule that we have such small pockets of barely viable farmland. We should see these farms amalgamated as happened across much of Europe.

5) Develop Dublin, Cork, Limerick and possibly Waterford and Galway to proper city status. Encourage people to move to the cities and create the critical masses required. Immediately end one-off housing development which has destroyed large swathes of our once beautiful land. Invest large sums in these cities to make them beautiful, attractive urban spaces where people WANT to move to.

Agree with the rest but not above :mad:.
So how do you encourage the rationalisation of farming, perhaps you kick people off the land aka the Scottish highland clearances.
Actually you are kinda socialist in thinking on that, but it would be more the form of socialism adoped by Joe Stalin and his collectivisation.
So your great idea is to make everyone live in a city and even then you didn't notice Galway is already deemed a city, with a population as great as Limerick and a fair bit less negative publicity.
Not everyone wants to live in a godawful sprawling small boxes of sameness housing estate e.g Lucan. Apologies to anyone that lives in Lucan.
I see you are from Dublin, there is life beyond the pale you know :rolleyes:
I can see your party's manifesto going down great with a few D4 types, but good luck trying to sell that to the rest of the country.

turgon

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I agree with the sentiment. But would you completely cut some social welfare benefits, or simply make them harder to get?

As for the dole, I see no reason why those on it shouldnt have to do a bit of work for it or something. Even towards getting a job. But I agree with the dole in principle completely, its just so abused.

Permabear

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adagio

I think alot of the issues raised are legimate and there is definitely an appetite for change and recourse but the mood seems to be one of aspiration and not action. I think if you guys are serious about a new political entity the first question should be 'where would the grass-roots of the party lie?' and 'how should it be built?'
Take a look at how the other political parties formed - during exceptional times. And guess what - we're entering exceptional times. So the conditions exist. Our cause is also helped by the fact that ruling political class is displaying a very elementary grasp of decision making, as they have become obsessed w/the playing of politics and the retention of power. Therefore, if ever a time existed to create a new party, outside that of a state at war, it is now. (Keep an eye on Declan's Libertas - me thinks that his interest in European Democracy is a subtext to launching a Domestic Party. But for the benefit of whom?)! :eek:

evercloserunion

It's easy to make threads on boards.ie isn't it? I absolutely guarantee you we will not see Darragh29 as Taoiseach any time soon.

HydeRoad

So, you get a bunch of straight-down-the-middle, socially and idealogically minded people, who want to start a new political party, which will get back to the grass roots, and put the people first.

How do you stop another bunch of people with vested and selfish interests from taking over and pulling the party away from it's 'raison d'etre,' leaving just another self interested and self protecting party, no different from anyone else?

murphaph

jmayo wrote: »

Agree with the rest but not above :mad:.

Fair enough. Don't vote for my new party!

jmayo wrote: »

So how do you encourage the rationalisation of farming, perhaps you kick people off the land aka the Scottish highland clearances.

I'd reduce subsidies which artificially help non-viable farms to limp on at great cost to the taxpayer. In a world with an ever increasing demand for food a business that cannot survive making said food has got problems IMO.

jmayo wrote: »

Actually you are kinda socialist in thinking on that, but it would be more the form of socialism adoped by Joe Stalin and his collectivisation.

Hardly-collectivisation was a process of nationalising all farmland. I'm not advocating that at all-quite the opposite in fact!

jmayo wrote: »

So your great idea is to make everyone live in a city and even then you didn't notice Galway is already deemed a city, with a population as great as Limerick and a fair bit less negative publicity.

Galway only has a comparable population because the city boundary around Limerick is a relic of the past and doesn't reflect the situation on the ground as Limerick 'city' now eats into Clare and Limerick County. Anyway, I said 'proper city'-I'm aware that Galway is already a city in name.

jmayo wrote: »

Not everyone wants to live in a godawful sprawling small boxes of sameness housing estate e.g Lucan. Apologies to anyone that lives in Lucan.

Urban living does not have to involve uniformly designed housing. Think outside the box! Look abroad for inspiration.

jmayo wrote: »

I see you are from Dublin, there is life beyond the pale you know :rolleyes:
I can see your party's manifesto going down great with a few D4 types, but good luck trying to sell that to the rest of the country.

Eh, apart from centralising all govt functions in Dublin (as they once were) I also advocated proper development of Cork, Limerick and maybe Waterford and Gaway. These places are all well outside the pale you know?!

Anyway-a party focused on urban development of the above named cities would not need to sell itself to rural Ireland as it would get a majority of voters to pass a referendum to change the system of govt. The cities of Dublin (including greater Dublin), Cork, Limerick, Waterford and Galway have a combined population well able to deliver the numbers required.

Darragh29

evercloserunion wrote: »

It's easy to make threads on boards.ie isn't it? I absolutely guarantee you we will not see Darragh29 as Taoiseach any time soon.

Nothing wrong with a little discussion. The biggest problem we have at the moment is that we are refusing to look at what we possibly could achieve, if the country was led and run by people who gave 2 f*cks about this country, as opposed to the trappings of the office they occupy.

Every debate I've ever read or listened to about politics in Ireland, after 2 minutes of exposure, I've started hearing, "Ah that's left wing bullsh*t" and then in reply, "ah that's right wing bullsh*t", and on and on it goes. It seems to be that the bullsh*t of what we currently acknowledge as being "politics" immediately takes over any debate that might be possible.

In recent years gone by, I remember heated discussions about FF as opposed to FG and folks voting along along free state or republican lines. If you wanted a 32 county Ireland, you voted FF and if you accepted a 26 county Ireland, you voted FG and so on and so on...

In 2009, all this mentality is assigned to the past! We don't need to have this FF-FG/civil war debate anymore because the dispute has largely if not exclusively been settled now and it's now a matter for the people in the north to decide what they want to do with regard to what jurisdiction they want to live in, and the vast majority of us have agreed with that for the record when we voted for the Good Friday Agreement...

What I'd love to be able to do is, start a fresh debate on what is best for Ireland and the people of Ireland. No left -vs- right or north -vs- south.

A clean sheet discussion, we all know the problems, so what are the solutions...

We have a major serious crime/gangland problem in Ireland, how will we sort it out???

We have an dramatically escalating unemployment problem in Ireland, how will we sort it out???

We have a problem with our healthcare system, how will we sort it out???

We have a capacity problem with primary & secondary schools, how will we sort it out?

I seriously think we need to start having very open discussions as a community about these things, because if the people we elected to sort these issues out for us or manage them to our satisfaction, could not resolve them when money was everywhere, then it is hard to see how the same people can resolve these serious issues when money is now extremely scarce???

Darragh29

HydeRoad wrote: »

So, you get a bunch of straight-down-the-middle, socially and idealogically minded people, who want to start a new political party, which will get back to the grass roots, and put the people first.

How do you stop another bunch of people with vested and selfish interests from taking over and pulling the party away from it's 'raison d'etre,' leaving just another self interested and self protecting party, no different from anyone else?

Hang on, let's just deal with the basics here for the moment, how to have a situation where the country is run by people who are not wrecking it. When we get to that point, we can worry about how to stop decent people who are running the country, turning into FF and the Greens, etc...

Frankie Lee

On the issue of the dole, I would propose that food and clothes stamps be given out instead of cash, at least then it would not be spent down in the pub.

I agree with your libertarian sentiment donegalfella however I disagree with the eradication of basic state services such as education and health.
I believe that these should never be run by private profit making entities, I believe maximum efficiency and best possible value for money from these services should be a target.

Also an alternative to prison must be found.

Permabear

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Dark_lord_ire

50k is nothing i earn more than that and after all there are the managers of the country should be at least 100k if not more but i do agree on the cutting back expenses. As for gov jet should be upgraded need top project a good image when a minister lands to talk business in another country

ninty9er

Darragh29 wrote: »

I don't think the money is a factor in how a TD will vote on an issue. They operate as per the party whip, if they go against the whip, they are out of the party...

You'd find yourself with a motion of no confidence every 6 months then, if you even managed to win the first one.

ninty9er

T runner wrote: »

40% positive discrimination towards females standing for elections for all parties.
Works for progressive countries like Holland and Sweden.
This might brake the cycle of largely untalented guys from 1) (largely in FF and FG) and encourage a new type of male and female politician.

I don't have a copy of "Corú agus Riallacha Fhianna Fáil" to hand, but for Ard-Fheis each unit may send 3 delegates. 1 must be a man and one must be a woman, the third may be either. If you do not have a willing female your cumann, CC or CDC will only have 2 votes.

Likewise, the Committee of 20, a directly elected body of non public rep members that sits on the Ardchomhairle, elected at an Ard-Fheis must consist of 10 men and 10 women. Last time 11 women and 18 men ran...meaning regardless of talent, 8 men were left without places whilst only one woman was left without a place.

While in theory it is a good idea, it doesn't always provide the best quality in practice.

Darragh29

Dark_lord_ire wrote: »

50k is nothing i earn more than that and after all there are the managers of the country should be at least 100k if not more but i do agree on the cutting back expenses. As for gov jet should be upgraded need top project a good image when a minister lands to talk business in another country

I think this mentality is a large part of the problem. How on earth can anyone say that 50K a year is "nothing"???

Ordinary man

Why don't they pay the tds amounts in line with other ec countries based on population? The people in power need to lead by example and people must follow. Wages need to be adjusted to what a country our size can afford not just during boom time

K-9

Ordinary man wrote: »

Why don't they pay the tds amounts in line with other ec countries based on population? The people in power need to lead by example and people must follow. Wages need to be adjusted to what a country our size can afford not just during boom time

Now we are getting to the real issues!

Drop the benchmarking free for all and pay all Public Sector workers 85% of comparable salaries. The guarenteed Pensions make up the balance.

Make a Science and Language subject compulsory for the Leaving Cert. Yes, that means dropping Irish as compulsory.

Proper job performance rating in the Public Service. If you are a crap Teacher or Guard, Goodbye!

Proper Cost/Benefit analysis of Infrastructural projects.

T runner

I reckon we need to get the talent out in the Irish political society.
I think we need to get female representation in politics out of the Fred Flintstone era and into the 21st century. 13% of female TDs is a joke.

40% positive discrimination for female candidates for the new party.
If the party gets in power bring it through for all parties.

murphaph

Could we just have the Conservatives here? I like the cut of Cameron's jib. The old arrogant Tory stuff seems mostly gone, replaced by a party manifesto I find hard to fault. I was watching him on TV this afternoon and he said he wants

-family centred socialist attitudes like in Scandinavia
-entrepeneurship as found in Silicon Valley
-Manufacturing output of Germany
-Strong, elected city mayors like in the US
-A savings culture like Japan

He said a lot more besides but when I compare this man to the gimps we have to choose from it depresses me. They at least have hope of recovery over the water. We're screwed.

Permabear

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