Selling Photos to local papers.

evoke

Hello All,
I wonder do any of you sell pictures to a local paper for money. I am not sure if you have to be employed by the paper or can you go free lnace. Anyone know much about this.


thanks

melekalikimaka

ring them or email them low res versions asking if interested

smelltheglove

I got a phone call last night from a local paper requesting shots. The local boxing club had passed on my details and they called, I asked re payment and they said to invoice for 8 - 10 euro per shot printed.

I am assuming if they request shots from outside staff they probably accept some sent in also.

ThOnda

so if they print 1000 copies of the newspaper, you'll get 1000 x €8.00 ?

smelltheglove

no if they print one shot 8 if they print 10 shots 80.

melekalikimaka

ThOnda wrote: »

so if they print 1000 copies of the newspaper, you'll get 1000 x €8.00 ?

smelltheglove wrote: »

no if they print one shot 8 if they print 10 shots 80.

soooo

the difference is????

challengemaster

lol ThOnda

Not copies of the newspaper printed, but number of shots in the paper :pac:

PCPhoto

I have done some pics for a local paper before - to be honest they cant/dont pay.

depending on if the local paper is a freesheet or if people actually pay money.

you wont make much money from a local paper - but you will gain in experience (if you need it)..... you could agree with them that you will supply the images for payment €15-30 per image printed - but they must add your name and contact number to every image they print.... that way you get free advertising.

Ricky91t

melekalikimaka wrote: »

soooo

the difference is????

You're joking,right?

Dodgykeeper

Doubt he is joking, he usually posts first and thinks later!

melekalikimaka

Dodgykeeper wrote: »

Doubt he is joking, he usually posts first and thinks later!

Yup I'm a nutshell

ThOnda

Dodgykeeper wrote: »

Doubt he is joking, he usually posts first and thinks later!

That's me :-)

Anouilh

This is a subject that has puzzled me for years.

I think that photographers should make sure that their work is taken seriously and, when it is used in a public sphere, that it should be given proper rates of pay.

Writers, for some reason, seem to fare better on the freelance circuit. I remember many instances where, rather than pay the going-rate, it was easier to slot in a graphic from a publication that was not under copyright. At one point I was on strike in defence of my union "brothers" who were, to my horror, not being paid enough to get them to a local football match by public transport.
What struck me as odd was that they accepted next to no remuneration in the first place.

Then I read about "Vanity Publishing".

It's a double-edged sword...

Paulw

Different papers have different rates (per photo or per assignment). Some will only work with you with a prior arrangement. Some just won't accept image submissions on spec.

Being freelance tends to make it harder, but you can make a bit of pocket money from it.

smelltheglove

I'd love to know how to get into working with a paper, I mean do you have to hound them with shots until they start asking you to attend events or just apply like a normal job? Dont get me wrong I dont want to be a full time pap but it would be nice to have someone give you a shout sand say 'can you attend a presentation tonight and take pictures of so and so'. One boxing night I covered had a photographer there to shoot one fight, he took a few pics while waiting for that fight but when that fight was over he was gone.

kensutz

The way I got into it is just by being out and about and making yourself available as much as you can. Send them a link to your website and tell them they can keep an eye on events you've covered, there's no harm in them having a look to see what you're capable of. It will more than likely start off slow but give it time and they'll be wanting to give you too much work.

It happened to me.

soccerc

smelltheglove wrote: »

One boxing night I covered had a photographer there to shoot one fight, he took a few pics while waiting for that fight but when that fight was over he was gone.

That's the way it operates. The snapper was given a job spec ie get three/four pics from x fight @ 9pm. That's all they are being paid for.

Most likely the fee was €40 so why would he hang about?

Additionally, there could have been another assignment/event to cover at say 9:15pm.

Look closely at local papers and se ehow they use the images in either copy or as space filler/standalones. Remember they have to try keep every club/organisation/commercial partners/advertisers happy!

Anouilh

smelltheglove wrote: »

I'd love to know how to get into working with a paper, I mean do you have to hound them with shots until they start asking you to attend events or just apply like a normal job? Dont get me wrong I dont want to be a full time pap but it would be nice to have someone give you a shout sand say 'can you attend a presentation tonight and take pictures of so and so'. One boxing night I covered had a photographer there to shoot one fight, he took a few pics while waiting for that fight but when that fight was over he was gone.

Damien Mulley wrote a piece quite some time back on how to approach editors. It made me LOL as I had not used the deferential tactics he recommended... ever.
Since digital media have become quite impersonal I get the impression that it is relatively difficult to make personal contact without some preliminary tactics.
Having a mutual friend or colleague will save months of frustration.

The problem is to find an editor who finds your work fits in with their brief. Having found that person is no guarantee that it will continue, however, as journalism changes its hat with every season and what's in one week is out the next. That's where joining the freelance branch of the NUJ, which seeming to be an unnecessary expense, will actually put you in the line of work. For starters, you will meet other journalists and be able to compare notes.

Also, editors, who always keep an ear to the ground will have noticed your work and will contact you in many cases.

Best of luck in getting started.

Don't send gifts, BTW, or, if, like me, you have a countrywoman's attitude to not looking gift horses in the mouth, send them to the person's home rather than the office. I once had an ethics committee remove some Christmas items sent by a friendly colleague, despite them having been safely tucked away into a large cupboard.

Odd...

Paulw

Anouilh wrote: »

That's where joining the freelance branch of the NUJ, which seeming to be an unnecessary expense, will actually put you in the line of work. For starters, you will meet other journalists and be able to compare notes.

How will joining the NUJ enable you meeting other journalists?? Being a member of an association or union doesn't mean you'll meet others.

But, if you do attend sporting events, gigs, etc, it never hurts to chat to the other photographers there, see who they work for and ask who they submit to. You can make some great contacts from talking to the others.

For sports photographers, you can always look at joining ASJI (Association of Sports Journalists in Ireland) and AIPS (International Association of Sports Photographers).

Anouilh

Paulw wrote: »

How will joining the NUJ enable you meeting other journalists?? Being a member of an association or union doesn't mean you'll meet others.

But, if you do attend sporting events, gigs, etc, it never hurts to chat to the other photographers there, see who they work for and ask who they submit to. You can make some great contacts from talking to the others.

For sports photographers, you can always look at joining ASJI (Association of Sports Journalists in Ireland) and AIPS (International Association of Sports Photographers).

It was just a suggestion. I met many journalists by attending the meetings. I have to admit it could get a bit political (and noisy) from time to tim.

It does not stop you socialising and chatting, as you describe. Journalists are gregarious by nature and seek people out in every situation I have found.

Also, it used to be mandatory to join in certain work places.
I don't know if that is still the case.

kensutz

The majority of NUJ registered photographers who I've worked along side think that they have every right to tell who is and is not allowed be at an event. I find it completely laughable that they try and pull the stunt with me.

Being a member of the NUJ and like I've said a few times before requires you to be in full time employment earning 50% of your annual earnings through journalism.

Like Paul has said, there's no harm in talking to other journalists/photographers about their work. Most of the sporting lads are really sound and give you advice on what equipment is needed, what to expect etc.

Here's the email I got from the NUJ.

Kenneth,

You must have no other job outside of journalism and be earning minimum 50% of your income from journalism to join the NUJ. If your circumstances change, do contact us and we will see about getting you into the union as a grade 2 freelance member.

Regards,
Helen Taylor
Personal Assistant

National Union of Journalists
2nd Floor Spencer House
Spencer Row
off Store Street
Dublin 1

whyulittle

Maybe I'm a bit simple, but if you are not allowed have a job outside journalism (to join), wouldn't 100% of your income be coming from journalism?

kensutz

That's true although I'd say she forgot to say that if you have a full time job then there's no chance. Although if you work part time - 50% of your income must be made by journalism.

tororosso

what a great "union"; the people most likely to be exploited are the ones who cannot join :rolleyes: how does that benefit members or non-members?!

Anouilh

for smelltheglove:

http://www.mulley.net/2007/05/01/when-contacting-irish-journalists-some-tips-from-journalists-themselves/

Trojan911

smelltheglove wrote: »

I'd love to know how to get into working with a paper, I mean do you have to hound them with shots until they start asking you to attend events or just apply like a normal job? Dont get me wrong I dont want to be a full time pap but it would be nice to have someone give you a shout sand say 'can you attend a presentation tonight and take pictures of so and so'..

This may help. I don't work for any paper but I have connections in the press/media that call me sometimes. Other than that I just send them in, if they get printed then I get paid the agreed price by cheque approx six weeks later. One of my recent images made the full front page of the Star and more images were printed within the paper. I got paid a lot more for those ones.

Anouilh

evoke wrote: »

I wonder do any of you sell pictures to a local paper for money.

During an idle moment I began to wonder what else one could sell one's photos for...

In the current economic climate, barter might not be a bad idea.

melekalikimaka

Anouilh wrote: »

During an idle moment I began to wonder what else one could sell one's photos for...

In the current economic climate, barter might not be a bad idea.

magic beans???

this will open up a can o worms....

Anouilh

melekalikimaka wrote: »

this will open up a can o worms....

I hope not.

Anouilh

Trojan911 wrote: »

This may help. I don't work for any paper but I have connections in the press/media that call me sometimes. Other than that I just send them in, if they get printed then I get paid the agreed price by cheque approx six weeks later. One of my recent images made the full front page of the Star and more images were printed within the paper. I got paid a lot more for those ones.

Do some photographers have agents who could do some of the networking, leaving one free to get on with the main photography work?

Covey

€8-10 seems extremely low and personally I'd be reluctant to work on that basis only.

My approach to this would be to accept the €10, but base it on volume.

Say 100 shots per annum = €10 and built a scale related to that. Say 1-10 per annum €25 per shot and scale down to your €10 euro.

That way, they percieve they've secured a good deal and you're not being screwed altogether with the prospect hopefully of continuous sales.

T.

Paulw

With so many people having cameras, and photography so open, the value of photography (news, sport, etc) is decreasing.

It can sometimes be hard to agree a decent payment for images.

Some papers, etc, will only use you when they are stuck and have no one else. So, you can't ensure you get regular work/business with them.

Trojan911

Anouilh wrote: »

Do some photographers have agents who could do some of the networking, leaving one free to get on with the main photography work?

Don't know the answer to that one. In my situation I built up my contacts because I am lucky enough to know a few people in media/radio & I do most of my work with a journalist who, when needs images taken in the Munster region he calls me. Or I might put a story forward & he negotiates a price with the papers & sells it to the higest bidder, then he writes the story & I photograph it whether it is covert photography or pre arranged.

The majority of my images go to the Tabloids or Dailys & irresepective of what I think of the Tabloids or Dailys I'm still making money. That's the way I look at it.

Now, having said all that, the work can be very slow at times so it is not a weekly paying job, but it lets the camera pay it's way, and it is all declared to the Revenue as I am registered with them.

Anouilh

Trojan911 wrote: »

Don't know the answer to that one. In my situation I built up my contacts because I am lucky enough to know a few people in media/radio & I do most of my work with a journalist who, when needs images taken in the Munster region he calls me. Or I might put a story forward & he negotiates a price with the papers & sells it to the higest bidder, then he writes the story & I photograph it whether it is covert photography or pre arranged.

The majority of my images go to the Tabloids or Dailys & irresepective of what I think of the Tabloids or Dailys I'm still making money. That's the way I look at it.

Now, having said all that, the work can be very slow at times so it is not a weekly paying job, but it lets the camera pay it's way, and it is all declared to the Revenue as I am registered with them.

Your networking is exactly what makes it possible.

Basically I write. I haven't done so professionally for many years, but there is always a slot for new voices.

The digital revolution has made work possible for many more people than in the past, but as has been pointed out, remuneration is hard to organise.

The ideal would be to combine writing and photography, which would give freshness to the whole effect, but is very time consuming.

Paulw

In fairness, there are enough people on here that there "could" be a boards agency - covering nationwide things - sports, photojournalism, etc.

Look at the number of people who cover major events - football, GAA, rugby, boxing, etc, all at a level that is quality enough for print usage. There are also a good number of people who have newsworthy photos (recent protests are a prime example).

I guess it just needs someone to organise and run it as a business.

Covey

Paulw wrote: »

I guess it just needs someone to organise and run it as a business.

Is there really room for another agency? Doubt it.

soccerc

Covey wrote: »

Is there really room for another agency? Doubt it.

There's always room and competition is healthy though I would imagine it would be fairly tough to get a foot on the bottom rung.

You'd need to be prepapred to ride the storm and the investment for a number of years before there is any return.

Most media already have contracts with the agencies whether they be news, feature or sport and the difficulty would be in trying to compete with them.

Paulw

Considering how many are doing freelance work, I don't see why there isn't room or business enough for an agency.

melekalikimaka

Trojan911 wrote: »

The majority of my images go to the Tabloids or Dailys & irresepective of what I think of the Tabloids or Dailys I'm still making money. That's the way I look at it.

i'd have same mentality.... papers for the idiots and all that, but thats down to the articulation of the articles.... image standards are usually on par with broadsheets so I'd be proud

XLR8

I've done freelance work for papers in the past and to be honest, I'd rather sell my soul to the devil than do it again.

You usually get called at the last minute when for whatever reason, their own photographers can't do the job. You travel 20 miles, take 50 shots, do a little PP and get them off in time for the deadline, which usually means working until after midnight. You then buy the paper to find out they've only used 2 of your shots and you're going to receive €16 plus a few quid expenses for your work!

This isn't always the case, you do occasionally pick up the paper and find they've used 20 of your shots and it's a bit of a bonus but as a full time job, there's no way I'd ever consider doing freelance work for the papers, it's soul destroying!

.Longshanks.

Sorry for digging up an old thread - but i have a question that is very relevant to this above discussion.......



What is the going rate for a picture used in the local paper? I emailed some relatively decent resolution shots to the paper over the weekend and they rang me today to ask could they use it on their front paper (congrats to me!! ).

I sent in 3 images in total, but have no idea how many they will use yet. When on the phone i asked about sending an invoice to for my shots (thanks to this forum i would have previously just been happy for the acknowledgment). Was told that they have a look into it after they get it....

So whats the going rate for a weekly local paper that has a circulation rate of approx 21K (according to google searches)

Thanks guys. PM me if for what ever reason you would rather not make it public....

smash

Front page... congrats dude!

Call them again and ask their editorial dept what the going rate for pics is.

smelltheglove

Whats the paper, I came across some happy to receive photos but have a policy not to pay? I would cement the deal re payment first, find out the rate and come to a compromise, looking into it afterwards seems to me they may try and say then they dont actually pay for photos as it is a free or local paper.

smash

smelltheglove wrote: »

Whats the paper, I came across some happy to receive photos but have a policy not to pay?

I've come across this before with a local paper, and they've asked me for shots 5/6 times now... I don't think they understand the words "not without cash".

smelltheglove

Tye Steve, last time they asked me for one I asked the person on the other end of the line did they work for free? Shut them up!

Dodgykeeper

I have had paid pics in a few local papers, The most recent time was in January when I charged €50 an image, The Meath Chronicle and the Kerry Eye were the Papers in question!

.Longshanks.

steve06 wrote: »

Front page... congrats dude!

Call them again and ask their editorial dept what the going rate for pics is.

Will do - its after hours now but will try again tomorrow after paper published

smelltheglove wrote: »

Whats the paper, I came across some happy to receive photos but have a policy not to pay? I would cement the deal re payment first, find out the rate and come to a compromise, looking into it afterwards seems to me they may try and say then they dont actually pay for photos as it is a free or local paper.

Laois Nationalist

Dodgykeeper wrote: »

I have had paid pics in a few local papers, The most recent time was in January when I charged €50 an image, The Meath Chronicle and the Kerry Eye were the Papers in question!

Cheers!

When i was on the phone i explain the whole scenario - it was regarding a house fire. I've probably dictated half the article to the journalist already! Pic's in question on front page of my flickr

one2one

The Tallaght Echo use some of my images now and again, never got payment. Most recent one was today, I sent in 7 images of the DublinBus/Luas accident, they used one.

Ah well. At least they know I'm there and hopefully future references will come along.

.Longshanks.

This one made the front page:D the pic is about 5 x 5 inches


So how much should i invoice for??

Paulw

one2one wrote: »

The Tallaght Echo use some of my images now and again, never got payment.

Did you invoice them? Why do you allow them to use your images without getting paid?

one2one

Nope, its a local paper, they don't make much money from it, and I'm happy enough with my name in the paper. Also, I wouldn't have a clue about how much a photo is worth!