Gardaí get up to speed with new road camera technology

Capri

Irish Times -

Gardaí get up to speed with new road camera technology

IT’S GOODBYE “Gatso” vans, for the next generation of speed cameras is about to hit Irish roads. The new Garda detection equipment launched yesterday is capable of reading five car registration plates a second and will operate at night.

The Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) system launched in Leixlip, Co Kildare, will revolutionise how gardaí detect speeding as well as stolen and untaxed cars.

The technology comprises two cameras, one mounted at the front and one at the back window of a Garda car, linked to a microprocessor. The processor will automatically recognise and notify the operating garda if the car detected is untaxed or on Garda records as stolen or wanted in connection with a crime. It will also be used to detect speeding.

Asked would the new equipment be better at reading number plates partially obscured by dirt and mud, regional traffic superintendent Ken Brennan said “there is a good possibility” it would.

He said the technology was much better than that currently used on the West Link toll plaza in Dublin to identify vehicles.

Some 104 of the units have been purchased and 70 marked and unmarked Garda cars have so far been fitted with the technology.

The cars will be deployed throughout the country and may be used at “speed enforcement zones”. Gardaí, in co-operation with the National Roads Authority, have identified almost 2,000 zones as collision prone and these will be targeted.

Co Donegal has the single largest number of zones, with 118 separate areas of roads identified as vulnerable to speeding, compared with 46 zones in Dublin. Leitrim has the fewest number of zones at seven.

The location and map of each enforcement zone may be found on a county by county basis on the Garda website, www.garda.ie

The zones will also be patrolled by white Garda vans containing “robot” technology, launched in the autumn.

This technology will replace the old “Gatso” speed-detection vans which have been in operation for 12 years. Gatso was incapable of operating during darkness, but the new technology, currently in eight vans, has night-time capability. It will be focused entirely on speed detection.

Supt Brennan said the purpose of deploying the new technology is not to catch motorists speeding, but to encourage them not to do so.

“What we want is to be preventing motorists from thinking they can speed because we have this technology out there,” he said.

“We want to create the safest road environment for all road users, but if people aren’t complying, this is the technology we’ll be using to detect them and to issue fixed penalty notices.”

He said each ANPR unit had the capacity to read 5,000 number plates a day in a rural environment where traffic is sparse and 15,000 a day in an urban environment.

In time, the Garda also hopes to be able to automatically detect if a car is insured and if it has an up-to-date NCT certificate, he said, but this will depend on the insurance industry and the Road Safety Authority coming on board.

msg11

So it can't tell if someone is insured? That's one very expensive speed camera!

donvito99

Is this todays paper, thanks Capri.

Sully

Im a little confused.. they are launching a small selection of these cameras in garda cars that can detecting speeding from the behind and front - probably be put into Traffic Core vehicles? They also, I assume, launched the new speed detection van in the various hot spots around the country? So, two new pieces of technology at once? So its really a case of.. if you see a garda car slow down?! Most people would have only slowed down if the vehicle was parked for fear of a speed check but now if you even see one of the cars driving around you have a chance of being caught speeding. Its also only in a selection of cars so you could be lucky or unlucky.

The vans are interesting - will they be placed at random in the hot spots or will they always be in every spot?

Would that be correct?

Guy:Incognito

msg11 wrote: »

So it can't tell if someone is insured? That's one very expensive speed camera!

It can tell if it's taxed.

Without a system of the insurance companies reportign to the Gardai about every policy taken out there isnt a way to automatically check the insurance status of cars.

TheNog

Sully wrote: »

Im a little confused.. they are launching a small selection of these cameras in garda cars that can detecting speeding from the behind and front - probably be put into Traffic Core vehicles? They also, I assume, launched the new speed detection van in the various hot spots around the country? So, two new pieces of technology at once? So its really a case of.. if you see a garda car slow down?! Most people would have only slowed down if the vehicle was parked for fear of a speed check but now if you even see one of the cars driving around you have a chance of being caught speeding. Its also only in a selection of cars so you could be lucky or unlucky.

They are not speed cameras but Automatic Number Plate Recognition cameras. With the British version it can check if a vehicle is taxed, insured and if there is intelligence on them. Ours will be similar but for now we get our insurance details from a secondary source which is not real time information. That's why we need the insurance companies to come on boad.

I wonder will they need to tweek the Freedom of Information Act?

Sully wrote: »

The vans are interesting - will they be placed at random in the hot spots or will they always be in every spot?

Would that be correct?

The Gatso vans will be placed at known high accident spots for 80% overt detection with 20% covert speed detection at other spots.

Jip

Drove behind a Mondeo equipped with ANPR that came out of Dublin Castle on Friday, I could spot the read viewing camera quite easily but the wife had to have it pointed out to her when we wre right behind it.

PCPhoto

so if you are in an emergency situation - life or death - and in a rush to get to the hospital ..... you still face a speeding fine !!!

Fair play to the gardai .... in a recession they buy a gadget to earn them more money ..... looks like I'll be abandoning my car and taking my bicycle to work (who do I blame WHEN I get knocked over by a motorist, I've learned that cyclists are ignored on the roads - cars just dont see them - myself included)

PCPhoto

why do the gardai not just put these super new catcha speeding gadgets up all over the place and just watch the money roll in !!!


didnt the gardai announce only a couple of months ago that they had gone and spent tonnes of money on the Gattzo vans with registration plate reading capabilities.

*** I'm waiting on the announcement by the government to introduce the gadget that forces the car to slow down automatically - bang goes the money wasted on speed cameras ***

Ps. gadget mentioned was featured on sky news over the christmas.

Drummerboy08

PCPhoto wrote: »

why do the gardai not just put these super new catcha speeding gadgets up all over the place and just watch the money roll in !!!


didnt the gardai announce only a couple of months ago that they had gone and spent tonnes of money on the Gattzo vans with registration plate reading capabilities.

*** I'm waiting on the announcement by the government to introduce the gadget that forces the car to slow down automatically - bang goes the money wasted on speed cameras ***

Ps. gadget mentioned was featured on sky news over the christmas.

I dont think its about the money the way things are going on irish roads at the minute.

Fact is, if your speeding, your in the wrong, and if you caught, its tough sh*t paddy.

challengemaster

PCPhoto wrote: »

*** I'm waiting on the announcement by the government to introduce the gadget that forces the car to slow down automatically - bang goes the money wasted on speed cameras ***

Like limiters put in all Jap cars by default as the cop cars can't keep up? People just get de-limiters fitted...

eroo

PCPhoto wrote: »

so if you are in an emergency situation - life or death - and in a rush to get to the hospital ..... you still face a speeding fine !!!

Fair play to the gardai .... in a recession they buy a gadget to earn them more money ..... looks like I'll be abandoning my car and taking my bicycle to work (who do I blame WHEN I get knocked over by a motorist, I've learned that cyclists are ignored on the roads - cars just dont see them - myself included)

The Gardai aren't out to make money. They are attempting to save lives because unfortunately there are plenty of muppets with cars on the roads nowadays. The Gardai need our support, as it is up the individual member of public whether he/she wants to drive like a plank. .so if the public change their attitudes we can all reduce road deaths. It's not a money making scam..

On yer bike, careful now!

eroo

eroo wrote: »

The Gardai aren't out to make money. They are attempting to save lives because unfortunately there are plenty of muppets with cars on the roads nowadays.

I would like to believe this, when the new Gatso vans were launched back in September and the ANPR cameras last week the talk was about targeting roads with a high proportion of serious and fatal accidents. But last friday while traveling into Dublin city centre along the N4 there was one of the old Gatso vans parked up beside the Esso Service Station just after the M50 exit. Further along the N4 on the Chapelizod By-pass at the top of the hill there was two Traffic Corps cars with five members, two with speed guns.

I am not against speed checks, but have them in a place where they might make a difference. I cannot remember the last time there was a serious or fatal accident on this stretch of road.

dredre

foreign wrote: »

I am not against speed checks, but have them in a place where they might make a difference. I cannot remember the last time there was a serious or fatal accident on this stretch of road.

If you never know where you will come across a speed camera, then the only way to avoid getting caught speeding is not to speed.

If they were only put in high risk locations, people would chance their arm in other locations because they are 'low risk'.

The idea is to get people to drive within the speed limit all the time. It's not complicated.

miceal

It could be worse we could live in Finland!

http://www.trafficticketsecrets.com/speeding-ticket-news-finnish.html

Eru

foreign wrote: »

I am not against speed checks, but have them in a place where they might make a difference. I cannot remember the last time there was a serious or fatal accident on this stretch of road.

Ahem, Am I the only one that sees the irony in this statement?

The cameras are to stop speeding therefore reducing fatal accidents. The area you see the cameras has had no car crashes in a long long time which means that they are working 100%!

Bottom line and one which no person get get around. If you get a speeding ticket its not the cameras fault its yours because YOU were speeding. Where and when is of no relevance just as a criminal sitting in a cell isnt there because of what the Gardai or the victim did but what he did in the first place.

As for money, well dont speed and the camera cant catch you and therefore cannot get any of your prized cash.

donvito99

This thread is going OT.

IMO, the Gardai need to get insurance companies on board asap, so that the system can be used to its full potential. And, could VASCAR be incorporated?

Whitewater-AGS

I've not gotten to see these anpr's in action yet, was talking to one of our divisional traffic lads who was driving one of our two cars fitted with them and he said the thing was beeping like mad bacause of tax being out of date. I see sec41's going through the roof:)

Adamisconfused

The Gatso vans are still about. They still send a shiver up the old spine. I don't know why.
Does the anpr system work on the same principle as the Gatso vans, i.e. you get a picture in the post and notification that you're screwed or do you still have to be stopped on the spot.

I'm going to be paranoid every time I see a Mondeo in my rear view mirror. I'll end up seeing what's on the other side of the ditch.

TheNog

Adamisconfused wrote: »

The Gatso vans are still about. They still send a shiver up the old spine. I don't know why.
Does the anpr system work on the same principle as the Gatso vans, i.e. you get a picture in the post and notification that you're screwed or do you still have to be stopped on the spot.

I'm going to be paranoid every time I see a Mondeo in my rear view mirror. I'll end up seeing what's on the other side of the ditch.

AFAIK the ANPR cameras we use are not used for speed detection.

norrie_1001

TheNog wrote: »

AFAIK the ANPR cameras we use are not used for speed detection.

Was told by one of the traffic lads that they will be used for speeding once they are calibrated.
But they wont work like the handheld guns or gatso.
The way they will work is that if you are following a car, when the car passes a fixed object like a road sign etc, you hit a button on the handheld unit, then when you pass the same fixed object, you hit another button and the handheld unit calculates the cars average speed. You can then detach the handheld unit and show it to the car's driver.
The only thing that worries me is that this is not live like the gatso or the guns, it's more of an average speed calculation.
I think these could be challenged in the courts at some stage when they become operational.

TheNog

norrie_1001 wrote: »

Was told by one of the traffic lads that they will be used for speeding once they are calibrated.
But they wont work like the handheld guns or gatso.
The way they will work is that if you are following a car, when the car passes a fixed object like a road sign etc, you hit a button on the handheld unit, then when you pass the same fixed object, you hit another button and the handheld unit calculates the cars average speed. You can then detach the handheld unit and show it to the car's driver.
The only thing that worries me is that this is not live like the gatso or the guns, it's more of an average speed calculation.
I think these could be challenged in the courts at some stage when they become operational.

Im guessing here but for this to happened the patrol car speedometer would have to be calibrated?

metman

norrie_1001 wrote: »

I think these could be challenged in the courts at some stage when they become operational.

After the successful use of 'my client inhaled the steam off his own piss' defence, I'd suggest you're probably right :rolleyes:

foxtrot-oscar

Was talking to a couple of traffic lads the other day, asked what the little black box on the boot was (same dimensions as a smoke packet on its side)

They said it was the infared for this new system. Ive seen it used on telly and looks great. The guards are only starting off with t and will take some updates and more bodys online for it to work, once it does itll be great.

So when are ye getting the evo's and scoobys?

metman

foxtrot-oscar wrote: »

So when are ye getting the evo's and scoobys?

I think AGS will have to make do with watching this for the time being:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z31K3ah397g

foxtrot-oscar

metman wrote: »

I think AGS will have to make do with watching this for the time being:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z31K3ah397g

What a show! downloaded the series a while back, jammy gits

metman

The Evos are being upgraded to the Evo X and the new Scooby is on the way too, while Volvos are also being swapped for BMWs.

The motors get absolutely ragged, but are a good resource to have available

foxtrot-oscar

While talking to the same guards as above i joked about them getting evo's they said they had them on trial, but the maintenence on it would be too much. They both agreed the skoda octvia rs is the way to go, something i also belive. The speed and handeling but less maintenece

Whitewater-AGS

Was out with one of our divisional traffic sgts today and was asking him how the two cars we have with anpr are going. He also confirmed that they can be used to detect speeding but they have yet to be given training on the full system. There also is an issue with updating the infomation on the systemwhich should be done everyday but as of yet we have no facility to do this(a memory stick system is being talked about but there is a fear of them going walkies with all the info on them)

timmywex

This system is about to be featured on crimecall which is on rte1 atm

Traumadoc

If you look at the mess the m50 cameras have caused with incorrect plate reading, you can only imagine the number of vehicles that will be stopped because the machines misread the number plates- perhaps they should only buy one and trial it before they waste money on a system that may not work.

jackhammer

Traumadoc wrote: »

If you look at the mess the m50 cameras have caused with incorrect plate reading, you can only imagine the number of vehicles that will be stopped because the machines misread the number plates

That won't happen. Even if the ANPR mis-reads the plate, it displays on screen what it thinks is the number registration. If it doesn't tally with what the garda can see for himself, then he's hardly gonna pull him over.

Traumadoc

In moving traffic theres no way the guard can look at the machine then compare the reg with the vehicle thats just past him/her.
They should really try it out first before they spend hundreds of thousands on equipment.

The statement by the super was less than convincing.

Asked would the new equipment be better at reading number plates partially obscured by dirt and mud, regional traffic superintendent Ken Brennan said “there is a good possibility” it would.

Whitewater-AGS

Traumadoc wrote: »

In moving traffic theres no way the guard can look at the machine then compare the reg with the vehicle thats just past him/her.

Thats what the observer is for, I've seen the system in action it works fine.

Traumadoc

Whitewater-AGS wrote: »

Thats what the observer is for, I've seeb the system in action it works fine.

So does e-voting:rolleyes:

shakin

crimecall sort of launched anpr last night gave a working demonstration,seems pretty good,there will be a few in sligo at the rally this week. i truied rte.ie but i dont think they put episodes online though

Eru

Traumadoc wrote: »

If you look at the mess the m50 cameras have caused with incorrect plate reading, you can only imagine the number of vehicles that will be stopped because the machines misread the number plates- perhaps they should only buy one and trial it before they waste money on a system that may not work.

They were already on trial and accepted this the 100 thats been bought and fitted.

The M50 reg plate fiasco was not all the cameras fault. In fact it was only a few mistakes but once the papers ran the story everyone started chancing their arms and other people forgot they had used the toll when they had.

A good point about it (besides how much smoother and faster the m50 is) was the amount of supposed 'scrapped' cars, supposed 'off road, non use' cars and false plates that have been caught going across the toll and thus followed up with cars being seized, declarations for non use on tax applications being caught as bogus and people using false and altered plates.

cushtac

Traumadoc wrote: »

If you look at the mess the m50 cameras have caused with incorrect plate reading, you can only imagine the number of vehicles that will be stopped because the machines misread the number plates- perhaps they should only buy one and trial it before they waste money on a system that may not work.

ANPR has already been trialled and found to be reliable, that's why it's being bought.

Traumadoc

As long as it has been shown to be effective I think it would be a good idea.
There may be less need for garda checkpoints, for instance
My concerns were that the system would have a high false positive rate.

With regard to the M50 I know of a women in her 70s who has been sent demanding letters athough she has been nowhere near the m50. ( cloned plate?)

Eru

Traumadoc wrote: »

As long as it has been shown to be effective I think it would be a good idea.
There may be less need for garda checkpoints, for instance
My concerns were that the system would have a high false positive rate.

With regard to the M50 I know of a women in her 70s who has been sent demanding letters athough she has been nowhere near the m50. ( cloned plate?)

Possible allright though that would be the rarer option. Possible someone messing with their plates, you know like a zero turned into an 8 and that kind of thing.

Always amazes me how peoples cars seem to be very clean but that damn mud is just attracted to the back reg plate :P

donvito99

Ive seen boy racers using the black screws in cheeky positions turning 3's into 8's etc as Eru said.

Edit: Obviously not as they were putting them on!

donvito99

We also now know that it is confirmed that the ANPR computers will be able to speed detect, which is obviously good on a slow insurance, tax, NCT days. The more gizmos the merrier.