Fords Built in Cork

maidhc

Bought "Are you still below?" on the Ford Marina Plant in Cork with a few book tokens I got for christmas. Although written from a social science rather than motor point of view (and far too lacking in detail from this point) it makes interesting reading.

Does anyone here own an Irish built Ford? Are pretty much all Irish reg Escorts and Cortinas from the Marina? Does anyone have an Irish Built Sierra, and more importantly, do any still survive?

How did the Irish Fords compare with the UK and German cars, quality wise?

corktina

real Irish cars (as opposed to ringers from the UK) are quite rare and should be valued a lot more than they are. These are the REAL historic cars . There are a few surviving however, worth looking out for.

cronndiesel

afaik they were roughly the same but rust was even worse then the british ones which makes them even rarer what i cant understand why they were let go even maggy tatcher went out to US to bat for the factory there so why not sir garrett??

carchaeologist

Anyone remember the guaranteed irish stickers that used to be in the rear window of cortinas,i was loooking around before to see if i could get a scan of it to get printed up as a t-shirt but noone had one.

carchaeologist

carchaeologist

In his book "Motor Makers in Ireland" (ISBN: 0 85640 264 , John Moore says the following:

“The Government of the Irish Republic, like so many others during the years follwing the Great Depression, relied heavily on protectionist measures and policies to retain some control of its economy. The motor industry was naturally a prime example of these policies at work. One result was that many cars were imported in completely knocked down (CKD) form and assembled locally, with obvious benefit to the employment figures. It was also made almost prohibitively expensive to buy any car which was not assembled in the Republic. These policies lasted until the early Sixties, when the Government signed the Anglo-Irish Free Trade Agreement, which was aimed at giving Irish agricultural produce easier access to UK markets. Even the accession to the Common Market in 1973 did not completely remove the tariff barriers which were specially negotiated in order to protect the jobs involved, and allowed to remain until 1984.

At the height of the CKD boom there were twelve firms involved, assembling vehicles for Fiat, Ford, British Leyland, Mercedes Benz, Peugeot, Renault, Volkswagen and Toyota cars, and Heinkel bubble-cars. The only attempt to assemble CKD cars in Northern Ireland was made in the early Sixties, when the Clarence Engineering Co. Ltd of Belfast, then the Triumph agents, built Triumph Heralds.”

From the excellent www.aronline.co.uk about BL Austin Rover CKD operations in Ireland:
Austin & Morris had two separate importers/assemblers. For Austin, there was Lincoln & Nolan, which also had the Rover agency and Morris cars were assembled by the Brittains Group. Lincoln & Nolan was taken over by Brittains in the 1960's.

Ireland also had a separate company that assembled MGs and Rileys. This company was Booth Poole and it was also taken over by Brittains. Booth Poole for example assembled MGBs in the 1960's, as noted in the excellent MGB book by David Knowles (see footnote 3, below).

Jaguar and Triumph both had separate companies with Triumph having a wholly owned agency – Standard Triumph (Ireland), while Jaguar had a local agency – Frank Cavey.

With the creation of BL, there were moves to simplify these arrangements. Britttains dealt with the Austin-Morris and MG franchise, while Rover, Jaguar and Triumph were combined into a separate company - British Leyland (Ireland).

The Brittains Group produced cars on the Naas Road, Dublin, in a large assembly operation, but strangely had separate dealer networks for both Austin & Morris - 80 dealers overall (40 a-piece).

Brittains lost the BL franchise in 1974 when BL 'sacked' the company. By this stage, Brittains also had the Datsun franchise in Ireland, though the company never recovered from the severance of the BL franchise and collapsed in 1977. The move caused huge problems for BL in Ireland and embargoes were placed on BL complete imports into Ireland by dock workers, through this was rescinded. One way of circumventing this was to move Mini CKD assembly to another company, which was Reg Armstrong, though this ceased in 1978.

By the late seventies BL had a normal import operation located on the Cashel Road in Kimmage as well as small factory making car seats, though this closed in the early 1980's. The company's market share had fallen from over 20 per cent in the early seventies to just 7-8 per cent in 1978. This was to fall further when CKD operations ceased and in 1979, thanks to another embargo, the share fell to around 3 per cent.

BL Cars (Ireland) became Austin Rover (Ireland) in the early 1980's and the company enjoyed a recovery in market share to the levels of the late seventies, though with a significantly reduced dealer network. However, the company hit problems in early '90s and the market share fell dramatically to below 1 per cent. Though this recovered to around 3 per cent by the late 90's, the share collapsed due to Rover's problems with BMW in the early 21st century. The situation is still very weak and unlikely to improve in the immediate future.


Datsun Ireland emerged from the ashes of the Brittains Group and became a very strong player on the Irish car market. Their large import facility on the Naas Road in Dublin was where part of the Brittains operation existed.

maidhc

cronndiesel wrote: »

afaik they were roughly the same but rust was even worse then the british ones which makes them even rarer what i cant understand why they were let go even maggy tatcher went out to US to bat for the factory there so why not sir garrett??

The impression I get is that Cork was never really viable. By the time it closed it was producing 80 Sierras a day while over 1000 were being made a day in Belgium.

Where Cork went really wrong was loosing its place as the only manufacturer of Ford tractors in the world. Again, the impression I get is this was from the protectionist measures of Devs Free State government, Henry saw trouble and moved the whole lot to the UK.

I think it was all inevitable. Ford no longer produce cars in the UK, and pulled out of the tractor business entirely in 1992, although Fiat still run the Basildon plant and manufacture NewHolland tractors there.

VolvoMan

I'm not trying to sound smart here, it is a genuine enquiry. But what was so special about the Ford plant in Cork, surely it wasn't the only plant that assembled CKD kits of cars in Ireland?

carchaeologist

VolvoMan wrote: »

I'm not trying to sound smart here, it is a genuine enquiry. But what was so special about the Ford plant in Cork, surely it wasn't the only plant that assembled CKD kits of cars in Ireland?

As above?

At the height of the CKD boom there were twelve firms involved, assembling vehicles for Fiat, Ford, British Leyland, Mercedes Benz, Peugeot, Renault, Volkswagen and Toyota cars, and Heinkel bubble-cars. The only attempt to assemble CKD cars in Northern Ireland was made in the early Sixties, when the Clarence Engineering Co. Ltd of Belfast, then the Triumph agents, built Triumph Heralds.”

maidhc

VolvoMan wrote: »

I'm not trying to sound smart here, it is a genuine enquiry. But what was so special about the Ford plant in Cork, surely it wasn't the only plant that assembled CKD kits of cars in Ireland?

Nope. They had a foundry and manufactured castings as well. It was a proper plant employing up to 7,000 people at one point and as I mentioned above was for a brief period the only plant in the world manufacturing the Fordson (a tractor with arguably as great a historical impact as the Model T).

By the time the final days came there is little doubt but that it was a mere assembly line for domestic vehicles.

corktina

carchaeologist wrote: »

Anyone remember the guaranteed irish stickers that used to be in the rear window of cortinas,i was loooking around before to see if i could get a scan of it to get printed up as a t-shirt but noone had one.

I know a man who has....he isnt talking to me but an intro might be possible...;)

corktina

to this day the irish Henry Ford and son Ltd are the only Ford company to bear the great mans name. Henry set out to bring Ireland into the industrial age and largely suceeded. That book is a great read.

Harry_Potter_Co

The rarest of the rare you could say for the Irish collector. Not so sought after in the past, one now is a nice little addition to a collection.


Thats an Irish survivor.




And thats another, my dads one.



Thats 3 Irish Mk2 Cortinas anyways, theres surviors alright, just not many.

trevorbrady

Whatever about the Fords built in Ireland, there's still LOADS of Irish-built CKD beetles around. They never lasted as well as the German built ones, I believe it was down to inferior rust protection during production.

If you're at a classic show during the summer, look for the shamrocks etched in the window glass to identify an Irish built beetle. While they got the CKD kits in from Germany, they had the glass made locally.

Ireland was the first country outside Germany to build beetles, incidentally

corktina

trevorbrady wrote: »

Whatever about the Fords built in Ireland, there's still LOADS of Irish-built CKD beetles around. They never lasted as well as the German built ones, I believe it was down to inferior rust protection during production.

If you're at a classic show during the summer, look for the shamrocks etched in the window glass to identify an Irish built beetle. While they got the CKD kits in from Germany, they had the glass made locally.

Ireland was the first country outside Germany to build beetles, incidentally

the shamrock thing also applioes to Morris Minors (and others I assume)

carchaeologist

corktina wrote: »

the shamrock thing also applioes to Morris Minors (and others I assume)

I think anglias had them too?

carchaeologist

corktina wrote: »

I know a man who has....he isnt talking to me but an intro might be possible...;)

Oh dear,if you think he could give me a scan let me know.Ta:)

Kevin_Herron

carchaeologist wrote: »

I think anglias had them too?

All the flat glass has the Shamrock on them on any Irish assembled car.

DaveCol

Irish assembled Minis also had the shamrock marked glass

trevorbrady

Kevin_Herron wrote: »

All the flat glass has the Shamrock on them on any Irish assembled car.

the curved rear screens of the beetle have the shamrocks too. The rear window in my oval is a shamrock one, despite the rest of the car being foreign. I was given the rear screen for it, it was obviously saved from another one...

The shamrock etching itself differs from the '50s glass to the '70s glass, incidentally

Kevin_Herron

Interesting Trev.
I know some of the curvy windscreens were not made here.
They were sent with the cars.

trevorbrady

might be because they were laminated and just the toughened glass was made here...

carchaeologist

My nov 77 irish bug only has a single shamrock marked side glass,though i think that was changed as a spare rubber for that glass came with the car.
Would such a late beetle have been built in germany in its entirety and shipped over?

trevorbrady

yeah, I've heard that occasionally additional cars were imported from Germany. I know of two identical green '73s (one Limerick, one Dublin) that were bought new here in Ireland that are both original German builds.

Another giveaway on the German bugs is that the wing beading is usually colour coded to the paint colour while the Irish ones all had black wing beading.

sorry for going off on a tangent from the original post

245

trevorbrady wrote: »

yeah, I've heard that occasionally additional cars were imported from Germany. I know of two identical green '73s (one Limerick, one Dublin) that were bought new here in Ireland that are both original German builds.

Another giveaway on the German bugs is that the wing beading is usually colour coded to the paint colour while the Irish ones all had black wing beading.

sorry for going off on a tangent from the original post

No need to apologise (as far as I'm concerned anyway...) that kind of info is always interesting

carchaeologist

245 wrote: »

No need to apologise (as far as I'm concerned anyway...) that kind of info is always interesting

+1:)

maidhc

Were these other CKD Cars assembled on production lines in Ireland, or was it more like a getting a box of meccano and (if you are lucky) an instruction book?

I understand that the latter system was how Land Rover sold to Africa.

PanhardPL

maidhc wrote: »

Were these other CKD Cars assembled on production lines in Ireland, or was it more like a getting a box of meccano and (if you are lucky) an instruction book?

I understand that the latter system was how Land Rover sold to Africa.

Prior to 1971 all cars and trucks came into the country in CKD form and all had to have a certain amount of locally sourced parts such as seating materials, which were produced by Birr Fabrics, who also exported all the fabrics that were used by London Transport. Triplex Glass in Templemore supplied most of the glasses and of course Dunlops supplied all the tyres for Fords, who were next door to them.

cronndiesel

thanks for the reply carchaeologist great stuff :)

however i dont agree about the one on dev and protectionism as the tax bands set in uk were set to keep out american imports as a protectionist measure and its still there so ireland was not the only one and uk still has this (and still has a motor assembly industry e.g.nissan in sunderland) look at india and others who still use these measures.You must remember our media teaches us to over critise our country due the history and culture of the control and ownership of our media but other countrys media dont have this vehamency and take a more balanced approach (im not saying there should be no critisim)

i would think there would have to be an assembly line of some sorts
so stuff could be put on in order and be pushed up the line ?
it would be great to see any pics theres a german website i stumbled upon 2 years ago and it had a black and white pic of them assembling an escort mk1- but what was the name of the feckin website!:(:mad::mad::mad::o i just cant think

richiet

I have a '65 Irish Beetle, shamrocks and all.

Have a look at this interesting site.

www.vwmadeinireland.com

Magnum

How would you know if your car was built in Cork or not , i have a 1980 Irish Reg Escort

maidhc

Magnum wrote: »

How would you know if your car was built in Cork or not , i have a 1980 Irish Reg Escort

I saw an Irish built escort recently and "Made in Ireland" was written pretty clearly just beside the bonnet latch.

carchaeologist

Magnum wrote: »

How would you know if your car was built in Cork or not , i have a 1980 Irish Reg Escort

The anglias at least had made in ireland mark on the vin plate under the bonnet,and stuff made from CKDs in brittains had a seperate tag with a build number on it.
Im not sure about the escort though.

Magnum

carchaeologist wrote: »

The anglias at least had made in ireland mark on the vin plate under the bonnet,and stuff made from CKDs in brittains had a seperate tag with a build number on it.
Im not sure about the escort though.

This is one of the plates from under the bonnet, it clearly states Ireland although the colour states R Solar , it has been changed in recent years......

carchaeologist

Yep,that looks about right.

Magnum

carchaeologist wrote: »

Yep,that looks about right.

Woo Hoo, i have an original Irish Escort.
Here is a pic BTW

S.I.R

my granddad had several hillman hunters and imps which where made/completed up by the grand canal....



thought if your cars been " restored " it doesn't count as a survivor, as its not workin the way it was coming out of the factory
( i.e converted to un-leaded... bigger, newer lump up front, etc )

corktina

an older Ford (ie Cortina) would have CE in the chassis number..BA would be Dagenham BB Halewood.

trevorbrady

S.I.R wrote: »

thought if your cars been " restored " it doesn't count as a survivor, as its not workin the way it was coming out of the factory
( i.e converted to un-leaded... bigger, newer lump up front, etc )

that's a bit strict isn't it? So as soon as you replace the tyres it's no longer original? :eek:

carchaeologist

Magnum wrote: »

Woo Hoo, i have an original Irish Escort.
Here is a pic BTW

Nice 'scort there lad,you should really change that melted front plate though...;):D
Going by the tipp south reg,she was one of the very last made,or she was sitting at the dealers for a bit.***PHI lasted from september 80 to february 81,and the MK3 came in around september 1980 if i can remember rightly.
Wasnt there a last edition of the mk2 around then that had those goldy stripes down the side of them something like this..

Apologies for the tiny pic..

carchaeologist

S.I.R wrote: »

thought if your cars been " restored " it doesn't count as a survivor, as its not workin the way it was coming out of the factory
( i.e converted to un-leaded... bigger, newer lump up front, etc )

Huh??
Converted to unleaded changes its entire history!!??
If its on its original plates and isnt a ringer:rolleyes: it counts as an irish car in my eyes...
Most classics have had some modification over the years,most of whats left of the irish MK2s have bigger engines at least in them by now.

dutchcat

my dad worked in brittains portobello,armstrongs ringsend and gowans who assembled peugeots in sallynoggin where des kelly furniture is now,he said the 504 irish assembled were junk in compared to the french ones,they finished them in the early 80,s ,the jigs and tools were sent to nigera prob still in use...............another bit of usless information

MercMad

Very interesting information lads, keep it coming, no matter how trivial you feel it is.

Maybe its time for more trade restrictions and more Irish assembley since the motor trade is apparantly in tatters !

Anyway I was too young to realise that cars were actually assembled in Ireland at the time, I knew of the Ford plant alright, and passed all the others but never knew they were assembley plants until I started in the trade in '87 and spoke with others who worked in the various plants.

It would be great to have a book in which former workers told some stories, these guys must be in their twighlight years now..................best get interviewing.

So what exactly is on these old plants nowdays, whats at Ford Cork ?

I know of some of the plants, I'll throw it out there so someone can correct the info, as I'm sure some of it is wrong.

The Reg Armstrong place in Ringsend was there until about 10 years ago, you could see the name written on the roof tiles, I think there is a modern building there now.

The Leo Pharma factory in Cashel road is where the XXXXX was roughly.

The Harris/Hino on the Naas road was one of the plants mentioned.

Ballsbridge Motors was the assembley plant for the Beetle and you could still see some of the original machine assembley mounting holes in the floor.

Was it Booth-Poole that was on the site of Chapelizod Industrial estate ?

Also the site where Radionics is on Herberton road junction I think was a former factory?

Come on lads, my memory is fading ( not helped by the flu) and Kev I know you have this info on the tipp of your tongue !

BTW the 504's are still being assembled in Nigeria although the actual parts/kits finished production in 2006, so when the stock is used production will finish.

trevorbrady

MercMad wrote: »

Ballsbridge Motors was the assembley plant for the Beetle and you could still see some of the original machine assembley mounting holes in the floor.

I was under the impression that the beetles were assembled in the MDL buildings on the Naas road, the building with the Merc sign over it now (that used to be a rotating VW sign)?

They would have started out on Harcourt st though back in '50.

MercMad

trevorbrady wrote: »

I was under the impression that the beetles were assembled in the MDL buildings on the Naas road, the building with the Merc sign over it now (that used to be a rotating VW sign)?

They would have started out on Harcourt st though back in '50.

............you could be right, but thats what I heard. I'm sure someone will confirm !

MercMad

trevorbrady wrote: »

I was under the impression that the beetles were assembled in the MDL buildings on the Naas road, the building with the Merc sign over it now (that used to be a rotating VW sign)?

They would have started out on Harcourt st though back in '50.

From the site dedicated to Irish VW's, mentioned above,

Ireland's place in Volkswagen history was established in 1950 when a consigment of six Beetles arrived into Dublin packed in crates in what was termed 'completely knocked down' form ready to be assembled. A former tram depot was aquired for this purpose at 162 Shelbourne Road, Ballsbridge - the premises now occupied by Ballsbridge Motors.

There, the first Volkswagen ever built outside Germany was assembled thereby establishing Ireland's unique place in the history of Volkswagen worldwide. That first Volkswagen ever assembled outside Germany, which survives in its original condition is exhibited in the Volkswagen Museum in Wolfsburg, Germany.

With assembly output rising from 46 units in 1950 to 2155 units in 1952, the business quickly outgrew the Shelbourne Road facility leading to the purchase of new premises at Naas Road, Dublin.

Blue850

If anybody is interested in getting a copy Are you still below, the book about the Cork Ford plant, Charlie Byrnes bookshop in Galway, has about 1/2 dozen brand new copies at his warehouse outlet for €8, saw the same book for sale today at the Abbeyshrule autojumble for €25....

carchaeologist

I have a small 32 page book,"Ford manufacture and assembly at cork 1919-1984" by Bob montgomery.Its published by Dreoilin,part of their irish transport series.
For its size there\is a lot of pics and info in it.

gipi

carchaeologist wrote: »

Anyone remember the guaranteed irish stickers that used to be in the rear window of cortinas,i was loooking around before to see if i could get a scan of it to get printed up as a t-shirt but noone had one.

Any update on this?

I asked a friend of mine who is a member of a classic car club, he asked around but no-one remembered any special stickers for Fords. Were they specific to Munster registrations? He was interested in hearing more about them if they did turn up though!

He did say he remembers guaranteed Irish badges on Fiats, because he owned one back in the 70s.

carchaeologist

gipi wrote: »

I asked a friend of mine who is a member of a classic car club, he asked around but no-one remembered any special stickers for Fords. Were they specific to Munster registrations? He was interested in hearing more about them if they did turn up though!

I heard no more,i think it was an all irish thing,i remember them on cortinas,and not just in munster.A few that were wrecked in rosegreen had them. They were in the back window up the top corner.
They looked something like this..

---

c o r t i n a

trevorbrady

never saw one on an Irish beetle though