What's the story with Garda Driving?

Irjudge1

Can somebody enlighten me please what is the story with Gardai driving and the rules of the road. Is there simply a rules of the road do not apply to gardai law? This is a serious question I am not trying to be a smart ass.

I regularly see squad cars turning right at no right turn signs, taking short cuts up a short length of one way street.

But I have to say the most recent act I saw would not have looked out of place if the driver had been wearing a baseball cap a hoodie and driving a Peugeot 205 with go faster stripes.

On the M1 between the Drynam interchange and donabate interchange I was overtaken in the fast lane by a white transit. Cue a squad car with garda driver sped up fastlane and drove within 1 car length from the back of the van. No flashing lights no siren. Kept driving up the van's ass and slipped in and out over the edge of carriageway line on the median side.

The guy in the van had nowhere to go because the slow lane was packed solid. So the Garda keeps up his ass swerving in and out. Then on the approach to the swords interchage the van pulls into the slow lane. Garda floors it and cuts across the chevron for the slip lane at intersection in front of an artic which has to brake hard to avoid hitiing the squad car.

If this guy is supposed to have carried out an advanced driving course I'd be shocked by what it would appear he had learnt or not as the case may be?

So what is the story if you are driving at speed and are going to run lights etc do you not have to have the flasing lights etc to warn the public to get out of the way?

Turner

Would you believe they actually teach that manouvre on the standard driving course (I have completed both car, van and motorcycle driving courses), to drive very close to the vehicle you are following with your right tyre nearly in the central medium.

Its designed to have your headlights directly in the drivers right door mirror. Its to let the driver in front know that you are on duty and need to pass in a hurry. Usually in combination with a blast of flashing headlights or a siren blast. You have to be ready with the brakes though as many people may jam on the brakes. Its practiced alot on motorways.

As for what he did with the shevrons, obviously it against the law for a civilian to cross a white line, gardai are exempt. Cant comment on why he crossed them in this situation.

Driving up one way streets, taking no right turns, driving on pedestrian streets is acceptable for gardai, ambulance and fire brigade.

Obviously not in a dangerous manner though.

People feel very jealous that emergency services can do this, because they themselves cant!


With regard to your last point, to run lights you do not need to have your lights or sirens on or even be responding to an emergency

You simply need to be on duty.

Irjudge1

Thanks for the reply

Chief--- wrote: »

As for what he did with the shevrons, obviously it against the law for a civilian to cross a white line, gardai are exempt. Cant comment on why he crossed them in this situation.

He was trying to exit the m/w and the quickest way was to cut in front of the artic. Still scared the **** out of the truck driver from what I saw.

As for the overtaking It does seem strange and I think most civilians would think along the lines as I did that the flashing blue lights indicate urgency and that the gardai are on official business. Unfortunately it would also appear that every second BMW 7 series driver attempts to use that overtaking manouvre.

Turner

Ah yeah it indicates urgency and the need to get past.

Some people think blue lights behind them means stop immediately.

Even in the over taking lane :eek::eek:

Has happened to me about 20 times while travelling with blue lights. Once on a motorcycle doing an ambulance escort of a man who had died numerous times (and been resusatated) throughout the journey.

Trust me i used some expletives, i think my visor fogged up.

Irjudge1

Chief--- wrote: »

Ah yeah it indicates urgency and the need to get past.

Some people think blue lights behind them means stop immediately.

I don't have a guilty concience.:D

bmcgrath

It's not a fast lane....

the locust

On a side note.
Sometimes Gardai kill the blue lights and sirens a bit before they arrive at the scene of a call as they don't want to alert certain people at the call to their iminent arrival... Also shocking as it may sound i've been in cars where low and behold the siren and/or blue lights don't work! (Although not a common occurance).

ian_m

I see Gardaí using mobile phones whilst driving and on duty. That's certainly not legal.

deadwood

ian_m wrote: »

I see Gardaí using mobile phones whilst driving and on duty. That's certainly not legal.

That certainly is!

King Ludvig

ian_m wrote: »

I see Gardaí using mobile phones whilst driving and on duty. That's certainly not legal.

The're allowed to use their mobiles if its in the course of their duties. Obviously not if its just to ring the woman

Mr Jinx

King Ludvig wrote: »

The're allowed to use their mobiles if its in the course of their duties. Obviously not if its just to ring the woman

can't they not use their state of the art modern digital radio system ?

Eru

ian_m wrote: »

I see Gardaí using mobile phones whilst driving and on duty. That's certainly not legal.

Fantastic comment there. What else are you certain about?

sdanseo

ian_m wrote: »

I see Gardaí using mobile phones whilst driving and on duty. That's certainly not legal.

People (in general, not just you) should get their details right before claiming that a statement is fact. It's happening more and more on this forum in particular, to the extent that one could pretty much categorising posts into one of three colums

- Moaning person who know shíte all
- Persons with a genuine interest in ES operations or who aim to join ES
- Members of ES; Gardaí, Police, EMTs/Paramedics etc

I'm open to critique on this one btw.

In this case, you're wrong.

TheNog

Mr Jinx wrote: »

can't they not use their state of the art modern digital radio system ?

We are still using the old analogue radio down the country. The bloody thing is older than me and i'm 32!!

TheNog

ian_m wrote: »

I see Gardaí using mobile phones whilst driving and on duty. That's certainly not legal.

We can use mobile phones while driving and so can the public but you must be ringing an Emergency Service at the time and must be able to prove it.

jackregan

TheNog wrote: »

We can use mobile phones while driving and so can the public but you must be ringing an Emergency Service at the time and must be able to prove it.

A blanket exemption for AGS or an exemption for operational purposes?

Is an AGS member still exempt if its shown he's on the phone to the missus?

ian_m

The times I have witnessed Gardai using mobile phones whilst driving could certainly not be described as emergency situations.

Quote from a report from the Garda Síochána Inspectorate.
Police officers operating Garda vehicles must provide a positive example for other road users and management should develop policies to ensure such is the case. In non-emergency situations, police officers should fully comply with the rules of the road in the operation of vehicles, observing speed limits, traffic signals and refraining from the use of mobile phones while driving.

http://www.gsinsp.ie/index2.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid=55&Itemid=39

geurrp the yard

ian_m wrote: »

The times I have witnessed Gardai using mobile phones whilst driving could certainly not be described as emergency situations.

Id challange that and say that It doesnt have to be a case where its an emergency. I dont know if your aware but some of the communications systems used by the gaurds are crap so sometimes its a case where the garda has to resort to using his mobile. Again thats not to say that there is gards out there that are taking the piss and been on their phone to the wife or whoever while driving.

deadwood

geurrp the yard wrote: »

Id challange that and say that It doesnt have to be a case where its an emergency. I dont know if your aware but some of the communications systems used by the gaurds are crap so sometimes its a case where the garda has to resort to using his mobile. Again thats not to say that there is gards out there that are taking the piss and been on their phone to the wife or whoever while driving.

Agreed.
Can I just point out that the Guard will, in most cases, be using his/her own mobile phone! They still don't issue mobile phones to p.c. plod!

dredre

city4life wrote: »

thats not a piece of law....its something written by a civilian

all law is written by civilians!

ian_m

city4life wrote: »

thats not a piece of law....its something written by a civilian

Agreed. But it sure is a very good recommendation. Civilian or otherwise.

TheNog

ian_m wrote: »

Agreed. But it sure is a very good recommendation. Civilian or otherwise.

I agree with the Inspectorate on this one. We shouldn't be using our mobiles while driving. In fact we shouldn't using our own mobiles at all for any reason while at work. If a phone call has to be made it should be made to the observer and on a state mobile. No exceptions.

I recently told everyone on my unit to stop calling me on my own mobile while at work as I always sign out a state mobile for myself.

Mr Jinx

TheNog wrote: »

I agree with the Inspectorate on this one. We shouldn't be using our mobiles while driving. In fact we shouldn't using our own mobiles at all for any reason while at work. If a phone call has to be made it should be made to the observer and on a state mobile. No exceptions.

I recently told everyone on my unit to stop calling me on my own mobile while at work as I always sign out a state mobile for myself.

I might send in my O2 bill on an A8, see what the super says !!

deadwood

Mr Jinx wrote: »

I might send in my O2 bill on an A8, see what the super says !!

He'll say "how the [EMAIL="f@$k"]f@$k[/EMAIL] does Garda Jinx get his A85 to stick to the roof?"

Eru

city4life wrote: »

observer?? whats that...ffs sake, my place would have 3 walking arounf town and me in the car on my tod

with regard to using your own phone, most annoying thing ever. we've one fella who refuses to use the radio, no matter how many times. i don't mind for sensitive information, but giving me a material damage t/a over my own mobile...ffs. country in resession and we ringing each other when there is no need for it

Guy in my place, no matter what call he goes to its always "Can you get the sho to ring me on the mobile please?". FFS, make a call for gods sake and take your cuffs out!

jt123456

Question for anyone who has done the advanced driving course or any sort of training on defensive driving... Whats the procedure/best recommendation for being tail gated. Typically a situation like a BMW (with/without northern plates) right up your a*** almost touching your bumper while your happily sitting at 55-60mph?

Sometimes when im in an evil mood, id slow right down to 40mph to really **** them off, especially when there's oncoming traffic so they can't overtake. Serves them right. Usual answers in the pub are, "suddenly hit the breaks and then get a claim in".

djtechnics1210

If your in the outside lane, pull in to inside lane and let it pass. If not get reg number and ring traffic watch

timmywex

jt123456 wrote: »

Question for anyone who has done the advanced driving course or any sort of training on defensive driving... Whats the procedure/best recommendation for being tail gated. Typically a situation like a BMW (with/without northern plates) right up your a*** almost touching your bumper while your happily sitting at 55-60mph?

Sometimes when im in an evil mood, id slow right down to 40mph to really **** them off, especially when there's oncoming traffic so they can't overtake. Serves them right. Usual answers in the pub are, "suddenly hit the breaks and then get a claim in".

+1, i slow right down, anyone asks"trying to create less of an impact":D

Fighting Irish

ian_m wrote: »

I see Gardaí using mobile phones whilst driving and on duty. That's certainly not legal.

wrong

gem25x

jt123456 wrote: »

Question for anyone who has done the advanced driving course or any sort of training on defensive driving... Whats the procedure/best recommendation for being tail gated. Typically a situation like a BMW (with/without northern plates) right up your a*** almost touching your bumper while your happily sitting at 55-60mph?

Sometimes when im in an evil mood, id slow right down to 40mph to really **** them off, especially when there's oncoming traffic so they can't overtake. Serves them right. Usual answers in the pub are, "suddenly hit the breaks and then get a claim in".

I like to wait till im next to the car in the slow lane so BMer guy cant undertake me and slow things down nicely to a steady 40mph and if he still doesnt get the message i tap my brakes...... works a charm every time!! :D:D

assuming the role of "the little lady" ha ha ha ha ha ha

djtechnics1210

gem25x wrote: »

I like to wait till im next to the car in the slow lane so BMer guy cant undertake me and slow things down nicely to a steady 40mph and if he still doesnt get the message i tap my brakes...... works a charm every time!! :D:D

assuming the role of "the little lady" ha ha ha ha ha ha

Why not just pull into slow lane and let them pass. :rolleyes:
Its meant to be an overtaking lane... thats why there's two lanes.
If doing 40mph then get into the inside lane and stop holding up everyone behind.
The procedure for garda drivers is to match the speed of the car in front and if car doesn't move (which it never does, because people think they can drive away happily in the outside lane and let everyone behind them go as slow as them) then flash headlights to indicate you want to pass.

gem25x

djtechnics1210 wrote: »

Why not just pull into slow lane and let them pass. :rolleyes:
Its meant to be an overtaking lane... thats why there's two lanes.
If doing 40mph then get into the inside lane and stop holding up everyone behind.
The procedure for garda drivers is to match the speed of the car in front and if car doesn't move (which it never does, because people think they can drive away happily in the outside lane and let everyone behind them go as slow as them) then flash headlights to indicate you want to pass.

I know I was off point but I wasnt referring to a garda car in the above thread. Please note ther quote was referring to beemer.

My point was, I'm sick sh!t of people driving up my @rse in bigger cars who dont have the manners to obey the rules of the road let alone be considerate of other road users. And if someone is driving on my bumper I'll slow right down not just to wreck their head but to prove a point. Absolutely no need for the speed or tailgating.

And for the record I'm not drivin up and down link roads at 40mph in fast lane all day every day:D I would consider myself a safe driver and road user and am fully aware of the dangers of actin the maggot on the road - drivin v v v v slowly can be just as dangerous (obv for the OTHER road users)


rant over

jt123456

i kinda meant the likes of B roads or the normal National roads as there's not many motorways or dual carriages ways in my neck of the woods. In these types of roads there is no where to go, No slow/fast lanes, and in many cases not even any hard shoulders. So your happily driving along at 50mph (reasonable speed and certainly not holding anyone back) and you can just see the eejit behind you banging his steering wheel and screaming at you to get out of the way. This road rage often leads to ridulous overtaking maneouvers on solid white lines and around corners :eek:.

shakin

now correct me if im wrong here, but there is a standard driving course and and advanced driving course(for cars)? so can gardai on the standard do high-speed pursuits? or must they have the advanced?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYmpZq3moKY

pa990

shakin wrote: »

now correct me if im wrong here, but there is a standard driving course and and advanced driving course(for cars)? so can gardai on the standard do high-speed pursuits? or must they have the advanced?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYmpZq3moKY

The Gardai do not get involved in Pursuits.. They follow at a safe distance until someone runs out of petrol

miceal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRbdKu3iwdA

Not sure if this is the Gardai or the Police.

donvito99

'Tis the Guards, a disgrace that people would put lives of Gardai nd their own at risk. The guards wont get very far in a Galaxy either, albeit it is more for the storage of gizmos in the back rather than speed.

deadwood

donvito99 wrote: »

...it is more for the storage of gizmos in the back...

Their names are Nog and Karlitosway, if you don't mind!

Eru

deadwood wrote: »

Their names are Nog and Karlitosway, if you don't mind!

Grievance!

Sierra Oscar

2,600 gardaí driving patrol cars without qualifications


The Oireachtas Justice Committee has heard that around 2,600 gardaí are driving patrol cars without the necessary qualifications.

The comments were made by Kathleen O'Toole, the chief of the Garda Inspectorate.

Inspector O'Toole said these gardaí were operating on so-called "chief's permission" without having undergone a driving course.

She says this policy is putting both the officers themselves and the lives of the public at risk.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhsneyeyqlau/

Trojan911

Heard her talking on the local news today. Will be interesting to see if any action is taken to change this policy for the better & get officers on proper driving courses.

metman

This would involve spending a lot of cash to increase places on courses, i.e recruit more instructors, more vehicles etc etc. Is this likely to happen in a recession?

Its the same rubbish here; people waiting an eternity for driving courses simply because the job won't invest in the driving schools.

The answer is to stick the standard response course onto foundation training. Think of all the wasted weeks in basic training, covering pointless topics that could be substituted with a driving course and public order training. That way everyone out of Templemore/Hendon/Wherever is a response driver and a level 2/Mat officer.

PS my identity crisis has now been resolved thanks to TheNog and Cult!

Blazer

I don't mind Gardai or the ES driving on the road..it's good to know that if you need them they will get there fast.
I just wish though most of them in Limerick would learn how to use indicators.
Have yet to see a Gardai vehicle use them.

TheNog

Tbh I cant see why the basic driving course cannot be done locally. If each division had maybe 2-3 drivers trained to instructor level. These instructors can come from the Traffis Corps.

It would remove the need for travel and sub allowance as well as accomodation at the college.

Trojan911

Mathew Reilly wrote: »

I don't mind Gardai or the ES driving on the road..it's good to know that if you need them they will get there fast.

Agreed there, but it is better for all if they are competant in doing so by undergoing a response course, they get there faster & safer.

Corega

I can't see why the driving course isn't done down in Templemore during your initial training.

Also it's a requirement for a lot of jobs these days to have a full clean driving licence, in the meantime there are guards with provisional licences who get the permission slip from the Chief and are asked to drive patrol cars from the get go. And given the high speed nature of pursuits and additional awareness needed in these situations this doesn't seem right. So I believe any new recruits should be required to have a full licence before being allowed to join AGS.

cushtac

Corega wrote: »

Also it's a requirement for a lot of jobs these days to have a full clean driving licence, in the meantime there are guards with provisional licences who get the permission slip from the Chief and are asked to drive patrol cars from the get go.

Don't know where you got that from, but you need to hold a full clean license in order to get Chief's and you don't get Chief's 'from the get go'.

CLADA

Corega wrote: »

in the meantime there are guards with provisional licences who get the permission slip from the Chief and are asked to drive patrol cars from the get go.

Please do not post incorrect information on this subject, provisional licence holders do not get chiefs permission.

Driver training in AGS has been seriously under resourced for years, the standard of training provided is excellent, it's providing an adequate number of courses to meet demand that's the problem.

In an effort to increase the number of qualified drivers the duration of the standard course was reduced which also reduced the qualifications of the driver (e.g 2000cc restriction), the advanced course is 4 weeks, the VIP escort course is 3 weeks.

Corega

Apologies for getting my information wrong. However, I still believe a full licence should be a requirement before being accepted as a recruit.

CLADA

Corega wrote: »

Apologies for getting my information wrong. However, I still believe a full licence should be a requirement before being accepted as a recruit.

Can't agree with you there, I did not have a full licence when I joined and I am now the top driver in the job :cool:

Had a full licence been a requirement I would not have been eligible to join, would the organisation have recovered from such a loss


Don't even think about saying it deadwood :mad:

cushtac

Corega wrote: »

Apologies for getting my information wrong. However, I still believe a full licence should be a requirement before being accepted as a recruit.

That won't solve the problem and would only exclude otherwise qualified applicants from applying for the job. The only solution is to increase the number of members being trained to the appropriate standard.