North Irland

magic&illusion

Can i ask someone a few questions about the conflict in north irland?

Stargal

Post your questions here and people can answer. You're better off getting a few different viewpoints on it rather than just one.

DutchStudent

Stargal wrote: »

Post your questions here and people can answer. You're better off getting a few different viewpoints on it rather than just one.

yess you re right

biko

I think the questions are what has been posted in other forums here

DutchStudent

biko wrote: »

I think the questions are what has been posted in other forums here

no we decide to ask some other questions, would like you answer our questions

biko

Sure, what is the question?

I suppose it's to do somewhat with the IRA? If so this is a good history link. History of the INLA.

DutchStudent

Well my friend isn't online anymore so I will post a couple of questions. we are Dutch student and we are meaking a report about North Irland and the 'troubles'. So please answer our questions because we need it very much!
If some of you want to answer it private whit an email. I apologise for the fact our english isn't good. Thanks in advance

to begin we need some information about you:
Name:
Age:
Gender:

the questions:
1. What do you think about the 'troubles' (rubbish, i understand it...)
2. Is there al lot of in attention about the 'troubles 'at school or work?
yes, wat kind of attention
3. Do you see/hear a lot about the 'troubles'? yes, where
4. Has someone in your nearest famili, friends become victim of the
'troubles'
5. If you could speake the prime minister what would you say to him
about the conditions of North Irland
6. Do you think the EU and the rest of the world has ignored the problem
for a long time? yes why?
7. do you recognise the distinction between the Protetants and the
cotholics? yes how
8. what kind of solutions do you think would solve the troubles?
Because the violence of 'troubles' is finished both the society does have several ideees about
each other
9. What do you thinkNorth Irland would be in the future

DutchStudent

biko wrote: »

Sure, what is the question?

I suppose it's to do somewhat with the IRA? If so this is a good history link. History of the INLA.

yess thank you for the link, the questions from the other forum where not good so we thought some other questions.

DutchStudent

well here are the statements/opinions and you have to see if you agree with it or not

1. the European Union has enough interfered whit North Irland
2. there should be no Catholic or Protestant parties, but simply a political
party for every one
3. North Irland should be an independente state
4. Catholic or Protestantpopulation live along whiteach other but not
together
5. the European Union has to help North Irland more than they do now



thanks in advance

DutchStudent

i know a lot ow people are free (here in the Netherlands we are) and they want to relax but please answer our questions

McArmalite

DutchStudent wrote: »

Well my friend isn't online anymore so I will post a couple of questions. we are Dutch student and we are meaking a report about North Irland and the 'troubles'. So please answer our questions because we need it very much!
If some of you want to answer it private whit an email. I apologise for the fact our english isn't good. Thanks in advance

to begin we need some information about you:
Name:
Age:
Gender:

the questions:
1. What do you think about the 'troubles' (rubbish, i understand it...)
2. Is there al lot of in attention about the 'troubles 'at school or work?
yes, wat kind of attention
3. Do you see/hear a lot about the 'troubles'? yes, where
4. Has someone in your nearest famili, friends become victim of the
'troubles'
5. If you could speake the prime minister what would you say to him
about the conditions of North Irland
6. Do you think the EU and the rest of the world has ignored the problem
for a long time? yes why?
7. do you recognise the distinction between the Protetants and the
cotholics? yes how
8. what kind of solutions do you think would solve the troubles?
Because the violence of 'troubles' is finished both the society does have several ideees about
each other
9. What do you thinkNorth Irland would be in the future

Well, to answer some of your questions -

1. What do you think about the 'troubles' (rubbish, i understand it...) I am from the south but lived within a few kilometers of the north. For 25 years it was headline news on the TV, radio etc

2. Is there al lot of in attention about the 'troubles 'at school or work?
yes, wat kind of attention Despite people saying that Ireland is at the end of histroy since the signing of the Good Friday Agreement (GFA) which is essentially a power sharing arrangemenet, the subject of the North still provokes the hottest of debates among people.

3. Do you see/hear a lot about the 'troubles'? yes, where Though I lived very near the north, and some villages and towns even on the southern side of the border were bombed, about the only time I actually was near the scene of violence was once in Belfast when the IRA hijacked a van and blew up the front of the courthouse in central Belfast. Also was in Belfast when I heard some shots fired by the INLA near the Divis flats. No fatalites in both incidents.

4. Has someone in your nearest famili, friends become victim of the
'troubles' 2 cousins of mine were in prison during the troubles ( my grandfather and granduncle were also both in prison in 1919 - 1922 for IRA membership ). One of my cousins was very badly beaten up by the brits when arrested during internment as he was a memeber of the civil rights movement, was held down on the ground and rifle butts were used to smash bones in both hands. He later sued the brit army on court and won a substanial amount for mistreatment from them.

5. If you could speake the prime minister what would you say to him about the conditions of North Irland BRITS OUT

6. Do you think the EU and the rest of the world has ignored the problem for a long time? yes why? I rememeber during the late 70's I think it was a motion from a left wing alliance of mainly Danish and Netherlands MEP's put foward a motion in Brussels susjesting greater EU invovlement. The brits ofcourse didn't like it and said the North was british terrority and how dare they etc ,etc. The Irish govt. as usual played the role of subservant puppet republic and said it wouldn't help Anglo Irish relations as this particuliar time, blah, blah, etc, etc, Same also happened in the late 1950's in the UN.

7. do you recognise the distinction between the Protetants and the cotholics? yes how Well I don't like to use the term Catholic and Protestant myself as it helps to support the british lies that the conflict is a religious one and not a conflict between 2 nationalites, the Irish nationalists who want a United Ireland, and the british unionists who want to remain loyal to britain.

8. what kind of solutions do you think would solve the troubles? Because the violence of 'troubles' is finished both the society does have several ideees about each other In the end it's going to result in a United Ireland, their's no doubt about that. Don't have the exact figures to hand, but at partition in 1922 it was the ratio could have been as high as 3 unionists to 1 nationalist. At the last election it was something like 54% unionist to 46% Nationalist. Also in the south of Ireland, despite the puppet govt and british dominated media who have attempted to criminalise Irish nationalism over the last decades, national unity still remains the wishes of the vast majority of the people (80%) as can be seen from this poll for example http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2006/04/02/story13158.asp
Also as part of the Good Friday Agreement, all Ireland development of infrastucture such as roads, railways, telecommunications etc with the Irish govt providing much of the money.

Irjudge1

DutchStudent wrote: »

Well my friend isn't online anymore so I will post a couple of questions. we are Dutch student and we are meaking a report about North Irland and the 'troubles'. So please answer our questions because we need it very much!
If some of you want to answer it private whit an email. I apologise for the fact our english isn't good. Thanks in advance

to begin we need some information about you:
Name:
Age:
Gender:

the questions:
1. What do you think about the 'troubles' (rubbish, i understand it...)
2. Is there al lot of in attention about the 'troubles 'at school or work?
yes, wat kind of attention
3. Do you see/hear a lot about the 'troubles'? yes, where
4. Has someone in your nearest famili, friends become victim of the
'troubles'
5. If you could speake the prime minister what would you say to him
about the conditions of North Irland
6. Do you think the EU and the rest of the world has ignored the problem
for a long time? yes why?
7. do you recognise the distinction between the Protetants and the
cotholics? yes how
8. what kind of solutions do you think would solve the troubles?
Because the violence of 'troubles' is finished both the society does have several ideees about
each other
9. What do you thinkNorth Irland would be in the future

1. I can understand the viewpoint of both sides. I think the political issues will still be there for generations to come. Hopefully the violence is gone for good.

2. At home (within 20 miles of the border) we were much more concious of the issues than what I have heard from people in Dublin for instance who generally were of the view that the people of the North were Nuts and should be cast into the atlantic on their own.

3. When I was at College in Belfast in 94 the ceasefire had been implemented but there were still obviously a lot of tension. In my home town there were a number of murders mostly relating to republican infighting.

4. No.

5. I think the more recent British and Irish governments have done their best to secure peace as best they can.

6. The EU did not appear to have any interest in resiolving the issue. To be fair the dutch should have sorted it out because it was William of Orange who really made a mess of things (JOKE). The Americans have certainly done their bit.

7. Yes we have different religions and different historical viewpoints. That is the difference. There are far more similarities. We both like to drink, play football and poke fun at the English.

8. Amnesia would solve the troubles once and for all.

9. Hopefully Northern Ireland will be a stable peaceful place whether it be part of the Republic or Britain.

I am 35 years old and male.

magic&illusion

Thank you very much for posting your opinion.
Your helping us a lot.
Everyone who sees this topic please poste youre opinion

magic&illusion

McArmalite wrote: »

Well, to answer some of your questions -

1. What do you think about the 'troubles' (rubbish, i understand it...) I am from the south but lived within a few kilometers of the north. For 25 years it was headline news on the TV, radio etc

2. Is there al lot of in attention about the 'troubles 'at school or work?
yes, wat kind of attention Despite people saying that Ireland is at the end of histroy since the signing of the Good Friday Agreement (GFA) which is essentially a power sharing arrangemenet, the subject of the North still provokes the hottest of debates among people.

3. Do you see/hear a lot about the 'troubles'? yes, where Though I lived very near the north, and some villages and towns even on the southern side of the border were bombed, about the only time I actually was near the scene of violence was once in Belfast when the IRA hijacked a van and blew up the front of the courthouse in central Belfast. Also was in Belfast when I heard some shots fired by the INLA near the Divis flats. No fatalites in both incidents.

4. Has someone in your nearest famili, friends become victim of the
'troubles' 2 cousins of mine were in prison during the troubles ( my grandfather and uncle were also both in prison in 1919 - 1922 for IRA membership ). One of my cousins was very badly beaten up by the brits when arrested during internment as he was a memeber of the civil rights movement, was held down on the ground and rifle butts were used to smash bones in both hands. He later sued the brit army on court and won a substanial amount for mistreatment from them.

5. If you could speake the prime minister what would you say to him about the conditions of North Irland BRITS OUT

Got to go. Will get back to answer the other questions.

I am very curious about the rest of your answers.
Thanks again for your help

magic&illusion

Irjudge1 wrote: »

1. I can understand the viewpoint of both sides. I think the political issues will still be there for generations to come. Hopefully the violence is gone for good.

2. At home (within 20 miles of the border) we were much more concious of the issues than what I have heard from people in Dublin for instance who generally were of the view that the people of the North were Nuts and should be cast into the atlantic on their own.

3. When I was at College in Belfast in 94 the ceasefire had been implemented but there were still obviously a lot of tension. In my home town there were a number of murders mostly relating to republican infighting.

4. No.

5. I think the more recent British and Irish governments have done their best to secure peace as best they can.

6. The EU did not appear to have any interest in resiolving the issue. To be fair the dutch should have sorted it out because it was William of Orange who really made a mess of things (JOKE). The Americans have certainly done their bit.

7. Yes we have different religions and different historical viewpoints. That is the difference. There are far more similarities. We both like to drink, play football and poke fun at the English.

8. Amnesia would solve the troubles once and for all.

9. Hopefully Northern Ireland will be a stable peaceful place whether it be part of the Republic or Britain.

I am 35 years old and male.

Thank you very much for your help

Hookey

1. Lived in London for 15 years and the attitude of Dubliners and Londoners was remarkably similar; "they're all nutters and a plague on both their houses".

2. Yes, at various times. Usually security alerts in London, and occasional transport disruption.

3. As above, sort of background noise about Belfast in the media, and then headline news when something big happened in the UK.

4. Had an (English) uni friend slightly injured in the Manchester bombing. Heard the BBC bomb when it went off (lived about 1/2 KM away).

5. Nothing. Belfast seems OK to me, and the north is making loads of money off the south right now.

6. EU has, but the US didn't. Why would the EU get involved anyway?

7. They each have their own traditions, but I'm not a fan of living in the past and have no time for sectarian differences, especially when it comes to religion.

8. Economics. People tend not to fight when they have something to lose.

9. Depends on point 8. If NI can develop economically, then it will be probably be peaceful. I used to think demographics would eventually deliver a catholic majority who would vote for reunification, but I'm no longer sure. It may happen in the long run, but probably because of the breakup of the UK rather than any pro-Republic sentiment. If Scotland breaks away from the UK, the English will dump Wales and NI as well, and most English would be happy to see them go.

DutchStudent

Hookey wrote: »

1. Lived in London for 15 years and the attitude of Dubliners and Londoners was remarkably similar; "they're all nutters and a plague on both their houses".

2. Yes, at various times. Usually security alerts in London, and occasional transport disruption.

3. As above, sort of background noise about Belfast in the media, and then headline news when something big happened in the UK.

4. Had an (English) uni friend slightly injured in the Manchester bombing. Heard the BBC bomb when it went off (lived about 1/2 KM away).

5. Nothing. Belfast seems OK to me, and the north is making loads of money off the south right now.

6. EU has, but the US didn't. Why would the EU get involved anyway?

7. They each have their own traditions, but I'm not a fan of living in the past and have no time for sectarian differences, especially when it comes to religion.

8. Economics. People tend not to fight when they have something to lose.

9. Depends on point 8. If NI can develop economically, then it will be probably be peaceful. I used to think demographics would eventually deliver a catholic majority who would vote for reunification, but I'm no longer sure. It may happen in the long run, but probably because of the breakup of the UK rather than any pro-Republic sentiment. If Scotland breaks away from the UK, the English will dump Wales and NI as well, and most English would be happy to see them go.

thank you for answering but what is your age& gender:

DutchStudent

McArmalite wrote: »

Well, to answer some of your questions -

.

what is your Age& Gender:

Hookey

DutchStudent wrote: »

thank you for answering but what is your age& gender:

Male, age 38

DublinDes

Name: Des
Age: 22
Gender: Male

the questions:
1. What do you think about the 'troubles' (rubbish, i understand it...)

- The root of the troubles was the creation of the unionist state by the British in 1922 manufactured with a false majority as the only way they could hold onto a part of Ireland. From it's first day it was run like the Ku Klux Klan ran the southern states of America with gross discrimination in employment, housing, police murder and brutality etc been the methods of intimadation. Copying the black civil rights movement in America, they marched for civil rights in 1969 and in return were attacked and murdered by the unionist police and unionist mobs. Hence giving rise to the envitable backlash from the nationalists. Here is a good site with good news ocverage of it as it happened http://www.rte.ie/laweb/ll/ll_t11d.html See Derry Civil Rights Demonstration sand click on the Look and Listen button

2. Is there al lot of in attention about the 'troubles 'at school or work?
yes, wat kind of attention

- Nowadays it's not in the news that much but the vast majority of people still see it as an injustice and would like to see an end to british rule in our country.

3. Do you see/hear a lot about the 'troubles'? yes, where

- Well I live in Dublin and am down the north maybe 2 or 3 times a year, so no, I ddin't see much violence ( Coming from my area of Dublin, Cabra, you don't have to go anywhere else to violence !!!! )


4. Has someone in your nearest famili, friends become victim of the
'troubles'

- Yes, I have met quite a few people down the years who have been a victim of the troubles, mostly friends of my father and people at public meetings etc


5. If you could speake the prime minister what would you say to him
about the conditions of North Irland

- Not really sure. I would just like to see a united Ireland, much as a Dutch man would not like to see part of Holland occupied by the Germans.

6. Do you think the EU and the rest of the world has ignored the problem
for a long time? yes why?

- Well, people of Irish extraction in America did quite a lot. They put pressure on Senators, Congressmen to be quite critical of British murder and abuses. A campaign called the McBride principles which demanded companies operating in Northern Ireland to not discriminate against employees on the basis of religion if they hoped for investment from US city and state pension funds. This forced the british to adapt strong laws to end discrimination in employment.

7. do you recognise the distinction between the Protetants and the
cotholics? yes how

Well, their was some very stupid laws in the Republic regarding divource, contraception etc which were practically written by the Catholic Church. Thankfully they are gone now.


8. what kind of solutions do you think would solve the troubles?
Because the violence of 'troubles' is finished both the society does have several ideees about each other

In the long run it is going to end in a united Ireland, their is no doubt about that.


9. What do you thinkNorth Irland would be in the future

Same as above

DublinDes

Hookey wrote: »

1. Lived in London for 15 years and the attitude of Dubliners and Londoners was remarkably similar; "they're all nutters and a plague on both their houses".

2. Yes, at various times. Usually security alerts in London, and occasional transport disruption.

3. As above, sort of background noise about Belfast in the media, and then headline news when something big happened in the UK.

4. Had an (English) uni friend slightly injured in the Manchester bombing. Heard the BBC bomb when it went off (lived about 1/2 KM away).

5. Nothing. Belfast seems OK to me, and the north is making loads of money off the south right now.

6. EU has, but the US didn't. Why would the EU get involved anyway?

7. They each have their own traditions, but I'm not a fan of living in the past and have no time for sectarian differences, especially when it comes to religion.

8. Economics. People tend not to fight when they have something to lose.

9. Depends on point 8. If NI can develop economically, then it will be probably be peaceful. I used to think demographics would eventually deliver a catholic majority who would vote for reunification, but I'm no longer sure. It may happen in the long run, but probably because of the breakup of the UK rather than any pro-Republic sentiment. If Scotland breaks away from the UK, the English will dump Wales and NI as well, and most English would be happy to see them go.

" the attitude of Dubliners and Londoners was remarkably similar. " Just because you kissed the brits butt when you scratched out a living over there, don't pretend the vast majority of Dubs think like you.

I suppose you regard the burning down of the British embassy after Bloody Sunday as a remarkably similar attitude of Dubliners and Londoners ???

Or the attempted burning down of the replacement embassy in Ballsbridge during the 1981 hunger strike as a remarkably similar attitude of Dubliners and Londoners ???

Or the so called Love Ulster unionist march which was destroyed by REAL Dubs like myself as a remarkably similar attitude of Dubliners and Londoners ??? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Dublin_riots

Yuor lovely average Brit blames it all on the Irish, ( it's never their fault whether it's Ireland, the Middle East, Asia etc when they nurtrued the conflicts). Protestants, Catholics, north or south your all the bloody same while our poor boys are in the middle just trying to keep the peace, the great British sense of fairplay etc, etc, etc.

Do me a favour, bring your wee union jack onto Hill 16 sometime and we'll see how much there is a remarkably similar attitude of Dubliners and Londoners

Centauro

Well my friend isn't online anymore so I will post a couple of questions. we are Dutch student and we are meaking a report about North Irland and the 'troubles'. So please answer our questions because we need it very much!
If some of you want to answer it private whit an email. I apologise for the fact our english isn't good. Thanks in advance

to begin we need some information about you:
Name:
Age:43
Gender:Male

the questions:
1. What do you think about the 'troubles' (rubbish, i understand it...)

I grew up with the troubles, It's a manifestation of tribalisim. A particularly odious human trait.

2. Is there al lot of in attention about the 'troubles 'at school or work?
yes, wat kind of attention

Most of my life there was nothing BUT the troubles. It cast a shadow over all aspects of life in Northern Ireland.

3. Do you see/hear a lot about the 'troubles'? yes, where. Yes.

See previous answer. I grew up in Belfast, and now live nearby. Tribal markers are still in place, people here work together by necessity, but by and large still choose to live in "tribal" enclaves.

4. Has someone in your nearest famili, friends become victim of the
'troubles'

Yes. I was injured myself, also close family members injured, and I witnessed many atrocities comitted by both Loyalist and Republican murder gangs.

5. If you could speake the prime minister what would you say to him
about the conditions of North Irland.

We are heading in the right direction.

6. Do you think the EU and the rest of the world has ignored the problem
for a long time? yes why?

No. It's no business of the rest of the world.

7. do you recognise the distinction between the Protetants and the
cotholics? yes how.

I'm a protestant, my wife's a Catholic. We are no different.

8. what kind of solutions do you think would solve the troubles?

Ecenomic investment, integrated education. Bulldoze the sectarian ghettoes and provide people with decent homes with no regard for sectarian demographics.


9. What do you thinkNorth Irland would be in the future

British, although the drift towoards a more liberal society in the republic is a good thing. Continued movement in that direction could eventually make the prospect of a united Ireland acceptable or even preferable to northern unionists/protestants.

LordSutch

With all due respect 'Magicillusion' you will not get any real answers here (just biased opinions), because there are two truths out there > one Protestant-British truth & one Catholic-Nationalist truth ...........

Already you can see two sides forming on the Thread.

Good luck Magicillusion, but remember to find out "The Facts" regarding the Troubles & dont rely on opinions.

DutchStudent

Camelot wrote: »

With all due respect 'Magicillusion' you will not get any real answers here (just biased opinions), because there are two truths out there > one Protestant-British truth & one Catholic-Nationalist truth ...........

Already you can see two sides forming on the Thread.

Good luck Magicillusion, but remember to find out "The Facts" regarding the Troubles & dont rely on opinions.

we're not asking questions for facts only peoples opinion about it
and the res off our report is based on facts
what i do whant to ask just because i'm curiouis about it

is it true that the protestants army every day/week/moth paraded around the catholic district

and that an employer can not only hire Protestant people but also catholics and that this must be well divided

Hookey

DublinDes wrote: »

" the attitude of Dubliners and Londoners was remarkably similar. " Just because you kissed the brits butt when you scratched out a living over there, don't pretend the vast majority of Dubs think like you.

I scratched out quite a nice living thank you, and funnily enough didn't have to kiss any arse. They've taken down the "no blacks or Irish" signs these days.

DublinDes wrote: »

I suppose you regard the burning down of the British embassy after Bloody Sunday as a remarkably similar attitude of Dubliners and Londoners ???

Since I was 3 at the time I'd say 70s attitudes on both sides of the Irish Sea were very similar, but I didn't really have an opinion, being like, 3 and everything. I'm talking about the last ten years.

DublinDes wrote: »

Or the attempted burning down of the replacement embassy in Ballsbridge during the 1981 hunger strike as a remarkably similar attitude of Dubliners and Londoners ???

Once again, in the eighties everyone hated everyone else. What's your point?

DublinDes wrote: »

Or the so called Love Ulster unionist march which was destroyed by REAL Dubs like myself as a remarkably similar attitude of Dubliners and Londoners ??? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Dublin_riots

So basically you're proud to be a knacker? Lovely.

DublinDes wrote: »

Yuor lovely average Brit blames it all on the Irish, ( it's never their fault whether it's Ireland, the Middle East, Asia etc when they nurtrued the conflicts). Protestants, Catholics, north or south your all the bloody same while our poor boys are in the middle just trying to keep the peace, the great British sense of fairplay etc, etc, etc.

Funnily enough I was reading an English book about the English legal system just yesterday, which went on, at great length, about the abuses heaped on the Irish by the English for centuries and the great injustices done in the name of Empire and the Act of Union. It was written in 1911. Take your head from out of your arse for five minutes and actually read what real Brits actually think (rather than the Daily Mail), about lots of things; Iraq, Northern Ireland, their relationship with the US, and you might notice they're a damn sight more self-critical than you seem to be. You may continue to live in 1916, but a lot more of us have moved on, and instead of the exact same "my country right or wrong" jingoistic flag-waving that people like you are so quick to criticise the Brits for, we tend to take a more balanced view.

DublinDes wrote: »

Do me a favour, bring your wee union jack onto Hill 16 sometime and we'll see how much there is a remarkably similar attitude of Dubliners and Londoners

And I'm sure if you took a tricolor to Lords you'd find common ground in your shared xenophobia. Oh, actually you probably wouldn't.

DutchStudent

thanks for answering everybody

LordSutch

DutchStudent wrote: »

is it true that the protestants army every day/week/moth paraded around the catholic district

and that an employer can not only hire Protestant people but also catholics and that this must be well divided

Sounds like your opinions have already been tainted formed :cool:

This is what I was trying to warn you about.

DutchStudent

Camelot wrote: »

Sounds like your opinions have already been tainted formed :cool:

This is what I was trying to warn you about.

no its just that a teatcher had tolld that to me so i wanted to ask you guys if it was true. I really dont have chosen a side because i dont live there and i dont know how its there in Noord-Irland

mike65

That may be a langauge issue - parade no, patrol yes. And it was not a Protestant Army it was the British army which is not run on religious lines.

DutchStudent wrote: »

and that an employer can not only hire Protestant people but also catholics and that this must be well divided

Since the Good Friday Agreement came into effect, public bodies such as the police force, civil service etc have to "balance" the proportion of Catholics and Protestants within the workforce to reflect the wider population. This is part of the "Equality Agenda" that also covers areas like sex, race, disability, etc.

getz

DutchStudent wrote: »

no its just that a teatcher had tolld that to me so i wanted to ask you guys if it was true. I really dont have chosen a side because i dont live there and i dont know how its there in Noord-Irland

to find out how and why you will need to look on the education and the religious system of the schools; in the republic most of the teaching in schools is done by the catholic church this teaches a anti /british view[before every one starts shouting i went to school in the republic-]even to the stage that football is not aloud because its looked on as british; in the north all republicians are looked on as a enemy[untill recently the republic still laid claim to the north] the answer ?change the education systems and wait another 20 years----i am male and i am 68 years old

DutchStudent

mike65 wrote: »

That may be a langauge issue - parade no, patrol yes. And it was not a Protestant Army it was the British army which is not run on religious lines.



Since the Good Friday Agreement came into effect, public bodies such as the police force, civil service etc have to "balance" the proportion of Catholics and Protestants within the workforce to reflect the wider population. This is part of the "Equality Agenda" that also covers areas like sex, race, disability, etc.

could you answer these questions
1. What do you think about the 'troubles' (rubbish, i understand it...)
2. Is there al lot of in attention about the 'troubles 'at school or work?
yes, wat kind of attention
3. Do you see/hear a lot about the 'troubles'? yes, where
4. Has someone in your nearest famili, friends become victim of the
'troubles'
5. If you could speake the prime minister what would you say to him
about the conditions of North Irland
6. Do you think the EU and the rest of the world has ignored the problem
for a long time? yes why?
7. do you recognise the distinction between the Protetants and the
cotholics? yes how
8. what kind of solutions do you think would solve the troubles?
Because the violence of 'troubles' is finished both the society does have several ideees about
each other
9. What do you think North Irland would be in the future

DutchStudent

getz wrote: »

to find out how and why you will need to look on the education and the religious system of the schools; in the republic most of the teaching in schools is done by the catholic church this teaches a anti /british view[before every one starts shouting i went to school in the republic-]even to the stage that football is not aloud because its looked on as british; in the north all republicians are looked on as a enemy[untill recently the republic still laid claim to the north] the answer ?change the education systems and wait another 20 years----i am male and i am 68 years old

could you answer these questions please
1. What do you think about the 'troubles' (rubbish, i understand it...)
2. Is there al lot of in attention about the 'troubles 'at school or work?
yes, wat kind of attention
3. Do you see/hear a lot about the 'troubles'? yes, where
4. Has someone in your nearest famili, friends become victim of the
'troubles'
5. If you could speake the prime minister what would you say to him
about the conditions of North Irland
6. Do you think the EU and the rest of the world has ignored the problem
for a long time? yes why?
7. do you recognise the distinction between the Protetants and the
cotholics? yes how
8. what kind of solutions do you think would solve the troubles?
Because the violence of 'troubles' is finished both the society does have several ideees about
each other
9. What do you think North Irland would be in the future
in advance

mike65

Name: mike65
Age: 43
Gender: male

the questions:
1. What do you think about the 'troubles'

What did I think of the troubles (as far as I'm concerned they ended with the Good Friday Agreement)? They were 30 years of murderous destruction which could have ended much sooner (ie 1973 with the Sunningdale Agreement). In terms of my life the troubles was background noise.

2. was there a lot of in attention about the 'troubles 'at school or work?

Not in my school particularly, but I did not go to a Catholic/nationalist school.

3. Do you see/hear a lot about the 'troubles'?

RTE (the national tv/radio station) would show every funeral, eventually you stop noticing. It was of course in all media but as I said above it becomes background noise eventually.

4. Has someone in your nearest famili, friends become victim of the
'troubles'

No

5. If you could speake the prime minister what would you say to him
about the conditions of North Irland.

Nothing much, things are much better, people now live under the laws of an agreement and there is little to complain about.

6. Do you think the EU and the rest of the world has ignored the problem
for a long time? yes why?

The issue of Nothern Ireland was matter for the UK first and Republic of Ireland second, the EU could have not legal power to interveen nor should it have. The rest of the world had plenty of its own troubles to deal with I think!

7. do you recognise the distinction between the Protetants and the
catholics?

No, the conflict in Northern Ireland was about national identity not religion.

8. what kind of solutions do you think would solve the troubles?

They are solved, there will never be return to the old days.

9. What do you think North Irland would be in the future.

Good question, as long as a majority want to remain within the United Kingdom that will not change. If Northern Ireland and the Republic were to merge into a new country that would require a vote to be passed in both states.

getz

DutchStudent wrote: »

could you answer these questions please
1. What do you think about the 'troubles' (rubbish, i understand it...)
2. Is there al lot of in attention about the 'troubles 'at school or work?
yes, wat kind of attention
3. Do you see/hear a lot about the 'troubles'? yes, where
4. Has someone in your nearest famili, friends become victim of the
'troubles'
5. If you could speake the prime minister what would you say to him
about the conditions of North Irland
6. Do you think the EU and the rest of the world has ignored the problem
for a long time? yes why?
7. do you recognise the distinction between the Protetants and the
cotholics? yes how
8. what kind of solutions do you think would solve the troubles?
Because the violence of 'troubles' is finished both the society does have several ideees about
each other
9. What do you think North Irland would be in the future
in advance

1 just daft, 2 no,3 i worked in security in manchester during the bombings,4 no; 5 northern ireland has its own goverment its not for me to tell them how to run there country, 6 nothing to do with the EU ,7 religion,8 stop religion in schools , 9 its as much about what happens in the republic as much as the north

McArmalite

DutchStudent wrote: »

is it true that the protestants army every day/week/moth paraded around the catholic district

I think what you are talking about is the Orange Order which is basically the same as the Ku Klux Klan in the southern states of America, a supemascist organisation developed by britain since the late 1700's to intimadate nationalists in Ireland - though nowadays tries to pass itself off as a ' cultural ' society. They have an incredible 2000 marches from April to September to ' celebrate ' the Battle of the Boyne in 1690 when the gay* Dutch King William of Orange, supported by the Pope, defeated the English King James on the 12th July 1690.

The Orange Order effectively ran the north from 1922 to 1969 the start of the troubles when the british were forced to close it's parliament in Belfast and run the north from London. All of the six prime ministers of Northern Ireland were members of the Order, as were all but three cabinet ministers until 1969. To give you an idea how much control this supremascist organisation had this is what Sir James Craig, Prime Minister of Northern Ireland, in 1934 had to say "I have always said I am an Orangeman first and a politician and Member of Parliament afterwards".

On July 12, 1996, Robert Saulters the leader of it ( called the Grand Master, just like the KKK who have a Grand Wizard ) told the Orange Order, that British Prime Minister, Tony Blair, " has already sold his birthright by marrying a Romanist. He would sell his soul to the devil himself. He is not loyal to his religion. He is a turncoat " ("Romanist" is Orange-speak for a Catholic. Mrs. Blair is a Catholic)........Lovely people aren't they.

DutchStudent wrote: »

and that an employer can not only hire Protestant people but also catholics and that this must be well divided

Yes the british were forced to introduce tough anti discrimmination laws as mentioned by DublinDes thanks to the McBride principles in America threatening discriminating employers business with the States and the terms of the Good Friday Agreement.

Camelot wrote: »

Sounds like your opinions have already been tainted formed :cool:

This is what I was trying to warn you about.

Maybe you could have given him a bit of insight into the Orange Order and it's role in the north instead of accusing him of having his opinions tainted. But is that just the unionist coming out of you Camelot ??

dlofnep

DutchStudent wrote: »

Well my friend isn't online anymore so I will post a couple of questions. we are Dutch student and we are meaking a report about North Irland and the 'troubles'. So please answer our questions because we need it very much!
If some of you want to answer it private whit an email. I apologise for the fact our english isn't good. Thanks in advance

to begin we need some information about you:
Name:
Age:
Gender:

the questions:
1. What do you think about the 'troubles' (rubbish, i understand it...)
2. Is there al lot of in attention about the 'troubles 'at school or work?
yes, wat kind of attention
3. Do you see/hear a lot about the 'troubles'? yes, where
4. Has someone in your nearest famili, friends become victim of the
'troubles'
5. If you could speake the prime minister what would you say to him
about the conditions of North Irland
6. Do you think the EU and the rest of the world has ignored the problem
for a long time? yes why?
7. do you recognise the distinction between the Protetants and the
cotholics? yes how
8. what kind of solutions do you think would solve the troubles?
Because the violence of 'troubles' is finished both the society does have several ideees about
each other
9. What do you thinkNorth Irland would be in the future

Name:John/Seán
Age: 26
Gender: Male (I hope)


1. What do you think about the 'troubles'

It's a simple question for something that has such a broad answer. The troubles were a culmination of civil rights injustices to the Irish people, and a conflict of political views between nationalists and unionists about the direction of the North, and the governance of it. It was a regrettable page in Irish history, which saw communities divided and needless people dieing. I still however firmly place the large part of the blame for these troubles on the British Government and British forces, for their injustices against the Irish people and collusion with loyalist terrorists.


2. Is there al lot of in attention about the 'troubles 'at school or work?

When I was in school (finished nearly 9 years ago now) - The only time we would discuss the troubles was in History class. Irish History was always a fascinating subject for me - and I like many would grow angry more and more each day as we listened to the disturbing acts against the Irish people by the British Government/forces.

3. Do you see/hear a lot about the 'troubles'?

I am only 26, so I didn't get to see the real troubles first-hand. I was born in 1982, however many of my family members were Republicans at heart, so Irish politics in terms of the North was often discussed.

Most of my education on the North, prior to self-study - came through History class in school, and documentaries on television. It wasn't until a few years ago that I ventured up to Belfast to see the North first-hand for myself. By then, the communities were alot more stabilised - However, there was still and there is still a rift. Nationalists will be nationalists, and unionists will be unionists.

4. Has someone in your nearest famili, friends become victim of the
'troubles'

Nobody was a victim. The only personal in my family that was involved in the Irish struggle was my Great-Grandfather, who was a serving and proud member of the Irish Republican Brotherhood.

5. If you could speake the prime minister what would you say to him
about the conditions of North Irland

Which prime minister? Ireland's is referred to as a Taoiseach. I have no desire to speak to our current Taoiseach about the North.. But I would ask why his party has become passive on the issue and the current views on the North. I would like to see the Irish Government develop a practical plan on enticing Irish Unity.

6. Do you think the EU and the rest of the world has ignored the problem
for a long time? yes why?

Absolutely. British rule in Ireland has been from the very get-go, an injustice against the Irish people. While we have always received solidarity from many people, in many countries across the world - we have not received solidarity from many Governments.

7. do you recognise the distinction between the Protetants and the
cotholics? yes how

Their only difference to me is faith. It's a complex question. Protestants are in most part, unionist - and catholics are in most part nationalist. However, you will find protestant nationalists and catholic unionists. I don't categorize the people of the North by religion, but rather by political views.

8. what kind of solutions do you think would solve the troubles?
Because the violence of 'troubles' is finished both the society does have several ideees about
each other

Peace and understanding. However, nationalists North and South will always aspire for Irish Unity. Unionists will always want keep ties with Britain. It will be hard to please both communities, but as a Republican - I would like to see Ireland re-united and a development plan made by our Government on how to welcome unionists and accommodate them into a new and multi-cultured Ireland.

9. What do you thinkNorth Irland would be in the future

At some point, I vision Ireland will be re-united. But before that happens, stability must be preserved. It's hard to envision how the North will be tomorrow, let alone in 20 or 30 years. Political differences however will always remain apart of the North. Even 100 years from now.

Erin Go Brath

DutchStudent wrote: »

Well my friend isn't online anymore so I will post a couple of questions. we are Dutch student and we are meaking a report about North Irland and the 'troubles'. So please answer our questions because we need it very much!
If some of you want to answer it private whit an email. I apologise for the fact our english isn't good. Thanks in advance

to begin we need some information about you:
Name:
Age:
Gender:

Age: 34
Gender: Male

DutchStudent wrote: »

1. What do you think about the 'troubles' (rubbish, i understand it...)

They are a result of British misrule in Ireland, and a mistreatment of the Nationalist (mostly Catholic) people by the British Government and Unionist (mostly Protestant) forces such as the police.

DutchStudent wrote: »

2. Is there al lot of in attention about the 'troubles 'at school or work?
yes, wat kind of attention

No, the troubles have simmered down at the moment so its not in the news as much as before.

DutchStudent wrote: »

3. Do you see/hear a lot about the 'troubles'? yes, where

No, from the south. Used to be regularly on the news.

DutchStudent wrote: »

4. Has someone in your nearest famili, friends become victim of the
'troubles'

No

DutchStudent wrote: »

5. If you could speake the prime minister what would you say to him
about the conditions of North Irland

I would say to him he needs to remove the 5,000 British soldiers from the north of Ireland and begin a phased handover of the 6 counties back to Irish rule within the next 10 years.

DutchStudent wrote: »

6. Do you think the EU and the rest of the world has ignored the problem
for a long time? yes why?

Yes. Britain is a powerful country with a lot of friends so they got away with many crimes in Ireland.

DutchStudent wrote: »

7. do you recognise the distinction between the Protetants and the
cotholics? yes how

No

DutchStudent wrote: »

8. what kind of solutions do you think would solve the troubles?
Because the violence of 'troubles' is finished both the society does have several ideees about
each other

A British withdrawal from Ireland would be the best solution. The ulster unionists could either decide to participate in the 32 County Republic or else accomodations could be made to repratriate them to Britain. It would no longer be an area of disputed sovereignty and normality could begin.

DutchStudent wrote: »

9. What do you thinkNorth Irland would be in the future

It will eventually disappear in the next 15 years and Ireland will be one nation again!

DutchStudent

thanks for answering

Judgement Day

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Age: 34
Gender: Male



A British withdrawal from Ireland would be the best solution. The ulster unionists could either decide to participate in the 32 County Republic or else accomodations could be made to repratriate them to Britain. It would no longer be an area of disputed sovereignty and normality could begin.

It will eventually disappear in the next 15 years and Ireland will be one nation again!

Dream on if you think that is going to happen. A British withdrawal would precipitate a bloodbath that the Irish security forces would be unable to control.

DutchStudent

Judgement Day wrote: »

Dream on if you think that is going to happen. A British withdrawal would precipitate a bloodbath that the Irish security forces would be unable to control.

could you also answer the questions so i could have youre opinion about it

Judgement Day

Name: John
Gender: Male (49)


1. What do you think about the 'troubles'

Sick of them - they have been a backdrop to my entire life and they haven't gone away you know. Just examine some of the fanatical contributions to Boards.ie


2. Is there al lot of in attention about the 'troubles 'at school or work?

Very little

3. Do you see/hear a lot about the 'troubles'?

TV, and heavy security presence on frequent visits to the North. I miss the watch towers and ever present helicopters.

4. Has someone in your nearest family, friends become victim of the
'troubles'

No. Living in the Republic you had to look for trouble to get involved unless you were unlucky enough to get caught up in one of the occasional bombings down here (Dublin and Monaghan).

5. If you could speak the prime minister what would you say to him
about the conditions of North Ireland

I presume you mean the Prime Minister of the Republic? I would have little to say except be careful what you wish for. In the unlikely event of unity it would be bad news for Fianna Fail as Unionist voters would not vote for them in a 'united' Ireland.

6. Do you think the EU and the rest of the world has ignored the problem for a long time? yes why?

Yes. The problems in N.Ireland are a matter for the UK government and no business of other EU members - including the R of Ireland.

7. Do you recognise the distinction between the Protestants and the
Catholics? yes how

Certain religious differences but in the main it is down to political allegiance. Protestants in the main are Unionist and Catholics Nationalist.

8. What kind of solutions do you think would solve the troubles?
Because the violence of 'troubles' is finished both the society does have several ideees about each other .

The troubles are suspended but not resolved. Sadly there is no solution.


9. What do you think North Irland would be in the future

It will remain part of the UK unless the incompetent British politicians manage to oversee the break-up of the UK! Quite on the cards with Labour in power. :)

Centauro

McArmalite wrote: »

I think what you are talking about is the Orange Order which is basically the same as the Ku Klux Klan in the southern states of America, a supemascist organisation developed by britain since the late 1700's to intimadate nationalists in Ireland - though nowadays tries to pass itself off as a ' cultural ' society. They have an incredible 2000 marches from April to September to ' celebrate ' the Battle of the Boyne in 1690 when the gay* Dutch King William of Orange, supported by the Pope, defeated the English King James on the 12th July 1690.

Ku Klux Klan?

DutchStudent

Centauro wrote: »

could you also answer the questions Centauro

Bog Butter

1. What do you think about the 'troubles' (rubbish, i understand it...)

I think the troubles reflect the tribal nature of two proud cultures within in the North of Ireland. Unfortunately because the cultures are so divided in the north there will never be real peace until this changes. Real peace will come about when both cultures share the same desires for the future constitutional status of Northern Ireland. The path taken by Sein Fein in pursuing their goals through peaceful means and the ending of violence by the IRA is predicated on the belief that the GFA will bring Irish unity. They believe the Nationalists will out-breed the Unionists.

2. Is there al lot of in attention about the 'troubles 'at school or work?
yes, wat kind of attention

No there is not. I think that people from the republic have become very partitionist in their mindset. They are simply sick of the north and they hope that the current status quo will endure. Talking about the north will lead to a political discussion; a discussion which many feel should be left to the people of Northern Ireland. Talking about the north just brings the emotional memories of the troubles back.

2. Do you see/hear a lot about the 'troubles'? yes, where

The ‘troubles’ in today’s post GFA Ireland does not take the form of bombs. The manifestations of the cultural divisions cannot be seen unless you live in Northern Ireland. They are only truly understood if you live in Northern Ireland. As a result, with the cessation of military violence, the North appears at peace to us here in the republic and indeed the world. And yes, relatively speaking it is. But is it really? I will leave that for those living in the North.

We do see the divisions at a political level through the media. BBC NI, which is received in the republic, is the best for news on Northern Ireland. These divisions seem very petty and extreme. But the two main parties in the north are the extremes from both sides. The DUP totally dismiss Irish culture as foreign. However from my limited discussions with Unionists, the ordinary people from that tradition are not as extreme. Many Unionists have some sort of Irish identify. They vote DUP not because they hate all things Irish but because they want the current constitutional position of NI to stay in place.

4. Has someone in your nearest famili, friends become victim of the
'troubles'

No. I live outside of NI and outside of the border region.

5. If you could speake the prime minister what would you say to him
about the conditions of North Irland

I presume you are talking about the P.M of the U.K and not our P.M. Traditionally the British government have failed to really understand the situation in NI. But this has changed now and so I don’t think it would be my place to say anything. He is well advised as it is.

6. Do you think the EU and the rest of the world has ignored the problem
for a long time? yes why?

No, there was sufficient help from the U.S. The US through Bill Clinton and George Mitchell has helped enormously. If the British government could not understand Ireland how could the wider European community understand?

7. do you recognise the distinction between the Protetants and the
cotholics? yes how

Yes, I do. But in the context of Northern Ireland the respective religious faith a person is born into is only a general cultural indication i.e. weather or not he/she comes from a Unionist or Nationalist background. The ‘troubles’ was not based on religious difference in reality. Religion was used as a cultural indicator.

8. what kind of solutions do you think would solve the troubles?
Because the violence of 'troubles' is finished both the society does have several ideees about
each other

One solution would be Unionists slowing identifying themselves as Irish and thus accepting a UI coupled with further social, political and constitutional change (reflecting the British tradition in Ireland) here in the south. A UI may happen with political and constitutional change alone but unless both cultures merge together there will be disputes and possible more military violence only this time headed by Loyalists.

9. What do you think North Irland would be in the future

People are saying that Nationalists will become the majority in NI so if that does happen I believe a UI is possible. But to be honest I really don’t know. Unfortunately unless there is further social cohesion there the possibility of more violence is possible.

DutchStudent

malman wrote: »

1. quote]

thanks for answering:)

McArmalite

Judgement Day wrote: »

Dream on if you think that is going to happen. A British withdrawal would precipitate a bloodbath that the Irish security forces would be unable to control.

Oh Gawd this unionist bullsh!t again !!!!!! and they were going to slaughter everyone if they didn't get down Garvagh Road, if the Anglo Irish agreement wasn't dropped, if the cap badge of the RUC was changed. They'd have put up as much fight as their brave comrades did in Donegal *, Monaghan, Cavan, Leitrim, Dublin etc when britian was kicked out of the 26 counties. Indeed it says it all about unionism that the unionists in the north and their ‘ loyalty ‘ abounded their brethren to the 26 counties with not so much as whimper.

Donegal is a fine example. It had a considerable unionist population, the eastern half of Donegal may probably have had a unionist majority. The unionists in Donegal were doing as much shouting as the unionists in the rest of the country ( including Dublin where the leader of unionism Edward Carson was from ) of how they'd fight to the last man etc, etc. When britain said - we're going, if you want to have a sectarian bloodbath you'll do it on your own, their wasn't a shot fired out of them.


*(BTW, here's a little link on the Donegal unionists before partition, " NO SURRENDER " etc, etc, etc No fight out of them when britain was casting the boat out though http://www.askaboutireland.ie/show_n...o?page_id=3933)

McArmalite

DutchStudent wrote: »

no its just that a teatcher had tolld that to me so i wanted to ask you guys if it was true. I really dont have chosen a side because i dont live there and i dont know how its there in Noord-Irland

It might have been worth your while as part of your questionaire to ask if people beleived themselves to be a nationalist or a unionist as some like Judgement Day, Centauro and Camelot are actually unionists, whether they'd admit it is another thing. Though it must be said boards.ie is infested with unionists who come on pushing unionist views and insulting nationalists particularily north of the border. But they give their location as Dublin etc For example Judgement Day ‘s post “ Living in the Republic you had to look for trouble to get involved “ and then goes on to state “ The problems in N.Ireland are a matter for the UK government and no business of other EU members - including the R of Ireland. “ which is about as unionist a statement as you can get.

DutchStudent

McArmalite wrote: »

It might have been worth your while as part of your questionaire to ask if people beleived themselves to be a nationalist or a unionist as some like Judgement Day, Centauro and Camelot are actually unionists, whether they'd admit it is another thing. Though it must be said boards.ie is infested with unionists who come on pushing unionist views and insulting nationalists particularily north of the border. But they give their location as Dublin etc For example Judgement Day ‘s post “ Living in the Republic you had to look for trouble to get involved “ and then goes on to state “ The problems in N.Ireland are a matter for the UK government and no business of other EU members - including the R of Ireland. “ which is about as unionist a statement as you can get.

yess that could be truet, its just: I thought always that the Troubles where about protestant and catholiek but its about the unionist and republicans

Erin Go Brath

McArmalite wrote: »

Oh Gawd this unionist bullsh!t again !!!!!! and they were going to slaughter everyone if they didn't get down Garvagh Road, if the Anglo Irish agreement wasn't dropped, if the cap badge of the RUC was changed. They'd have put up as much fight as their brave comrades did in Donegal *, Monaghan, Cavan, Leitrim, Dublin etc when britian was kicked out of the 26 counties. Indeed it says it all about unionism that the unionists in the north and their ‘ loyalty ‘ abounded their brethren to the 26 counties with not so much as whimper.

Donegal is a fine example. It had a considerable unionist population, the eastern half of Donegal may probably have had a unionist majority. The unionists in Donegal were doing as much shouting as the unionists in the rest of the country ( including Dublin where the leader of unionism Edward Carson was from ) of how they'd fight to the last man etc, etc. When britain said - we're going, if you want to have a sectarian bloodbath you'll do it on your own, their wasn't a shot fired out of them.


*(BTW, here's a little link on the Donegal unionists before partition, " NO SURRENDER " etc, etc, etc No fight out of them when britain was casting the boat out though http://www.askaboutireland.ie/show_n...o?page_id=3933)

Absolutely agree with all that. Once the loyalists don't have their chums in the British security service and army aiding and abetting them any more they won't have the balls to launch an offensive against the Irish state. The penalty will be a lengthy prison term for any atrocity committed. Its gets tedious listening to people opining that when a United Ireland happens the unionists won't accept it and will just cause a bloodbath. It is scaremongering and erroneous to make such assumptions.

Judgement Day

"One solution would be Unionists slowing identifying themselves as Irish and thus accepting a UI coupled with further social, political and constitutional change (reflecting the British tradition in Ireland) here in the south. A UI may happen with political and constitutional change alone but unless both cultures merge together there will be disputes and possible more military violence only this time headed by Loyalists."

How about Nationalists slowly identifying themselves as British and thus accepting that a United Ireland will never happen. How about the Republic re-joining the Commonwealth? It is about as likely as Unionists deciding that they are Irish.

Bog Butter

Judgement Day wrote: »

"One solution would be Unionists slowing identifying themselves as Irish and thus accepting a UI coupled with further social, political and constitutional change (reflecting the British tradition in Ireland) here in the south. A UI may happen with political and constitutional change alone but unless both cultures merge together there will be disputes and possible more military violence only this time headed by Loyalists."

How about Nationalists slowly identifying themselves as British and thus accepting that a United Ireland will never happen. How about the Republic re-joining the Commonwealth? It is about as likely as Unionists deciding that they are Irish.

Yes and if that happened I would not have a problem because it is up to the people of NI. I believe in the GFA. Which is more likely to happen though? If your vision of NI happens then that would be to suggest that the state and all of its trappings can turn people's cultural identity. My vision sees something more natural. Something which has happened throughout pre-history and history - assimilation. Here's a question: What has stopped this assimilation up til now?