Revenue seizeing goods bought online

97i9y3941

Reading in daily mail today,the revenue were seizeing goods that were bought online,i.e dvd boxsets like west wing that was €109 from play,then when arrived in ireland revenue slapped extra €30 vat on it,so should we all stop buying goods online all together,i.e games,dvds,infear that revenue would seize them?

Kintarō Hattori

You should never let fear stop you doing something. That applies across the board.

Fallen Buckshot

i don't see how they could seize anything bought online as long as its not illegal
or slap any extra tax on it if its bought outside the country .. that would be like you going on holiday and them taxing you for everything you ate/bought when you returned

97i9y3941

i think they are doing it cause you are avoiding tax in ireland,also someone has to think of the shops i guess

Kintarō Hattori

Fallen Buckshot wrote: »

i don't see how they could seize anything bought online as long as its not illegal
or slap any extra tax on it if its bought outside the country .. that would be like you going on holiday and them taxing you for everything you ate/bought when you returned

They can and often do slap a charge on items bought outside of ireland. This forum is rife with stories of courier companies holding goods until charges have been paid.

yoke

As I understand it, they can't do this on goods imported from inside the EU, but they can do this on goods imported from outside the EU.

pounder770

yes..all goods imported into the EU are liable to tax at point of entry...this is nothing new,and applies to goods carried in luggage,by travellers returning to the EU, above a certain limit also.All this means is that the differential between online purchase price from outside the EU,compared to online or store price within the EU,includes the fact that the purchaser is evading tax...

Just because legislation is not always enforced,doesn't mean it's not there......

311

Play.com and HMV.com always print the value of the goods on the outer package and there is never any question of you/them doing anything illegal.
One time I had a package opened on me ,it was a large boxset from HMV that was valued at 9.99. Obviously someone thought it was evasion and had a look inside.

I don't think games are stopped ,just bulky items that catch peoples eyes I suppose.

eamon234

I think you're missing the point - duty is not payable on goods bought within the EU - Play and HMV are UK based businesses so there should be no extra duty payable.

Gauge

Play is based in Jersey which isnt part of the EU.

rh555

Is there vat tax due on products bought outside the EU that don't have VAT in Ireland?

Anyone knows?

311

eamon234 wrote: »

I think you're missing the point - duty is not payable on goods bought within the EU - Play and HMV are UK based businesses so there should be no extra duty payable.

Play and Hmv operate in jersey ,jersey is part of the UK and not part of EU.

There are various ways places are doing business at the moment ,lots of places seem to ship goods from switzerland at the moment aswell.

311

rh555 wrote: »

Is there vat tax due on products bought outside the EU that don't have VAT in Ireland?

Anyone knows?

Theres suppose to be a pre-tax limit of about 22-23 euro on goods. But so much post comes in ,it wouldn't be cost effective to inspect everything.

Thats why I'm always weary of ordering box sets/large items ,they're much easier to single out.

RuggieBear

http://www.gov.je/HomeAffairs/CusAndImm/Customs+and+Excise/Traders+Information/Jerseys+relationship+with+the+European+Union/

4Xcut

311 wrote: »

Play and Hmv operate in jersey ,jersey is part of the UK and not part of EU.

There are various ways places are doing business at the moment ,lots of places seem to ship goods from switzerland at the moment aswell.

Jersey is not part of the United Kingdom, it is a Crown Dependancy which is a seperate thing altogether.

311

RuggieBear wrote: »

http://www.gov.je/HomeAffairs/CusAndImm/Customs+and+Excise/Traders+Information/Jerseys+relationship+with+the+European+Union/

Exactly ,only community goods exported by Jersey are exempt from duties by other EU countries.
Community goods are obviously they're own produce.

311

4Xcut wrote: »

Jersey is not part of the United Kingdom, it is a Crown Dependancy which is a seperate thing altogether.

I don't give a monkeys about english law ,it's what concerns us is what matters in this thread.

jor el

311 wrote: »

I don't give a monkeys about english law ,it's what concerns us is what matters in this thread.

Calm down. The fact that Jersey, and Guernsey for that matter, is not part of the UK and EU is of concern to this thread, because anything coming from there, valued at over €22, is subject to VAT, and possibly duty.

rh555 wrote:

Is there vat tax due on products bought outside the EU that don't have VAT in Ireland?

What products don't have VAT on them though? Food is VAT exempt, as are children's shoes. Anything that is VAT exempt, will not have VAT applied if you buy it online. VAT exemptions are few and far between, any luxury item you buy (pretty much everything) will be subject to VAT.

311

311 wrote: »

Theres suppose to be a pre-tax limit of about 22-23 euro on goods. But so much post comes in ,it wouldn't be cost effective to inspect everything.

4Xcut wrote: »

Jersey is not part of the United Kingdom, it is a Crown Dependancy which is a seperate thing altogether.

jor el wrote: »

The fact that Jersey, and Guernsey for that matter, is not part of the UK and EU is of concern to this thread, because anything coming from there, valued at over €22, is subject to VAT, and possibly duty.

Lets call the kettle black and be done with it.

rh555

jor el wrote: »

What products don't have VAT on them though? Food is VAT exempt, as are children's shoes. Anything that is VAT exempt, will not have VAT applied if you buy it online. VAT exemptions are few and far between, any luxury item you buy (pretty much everything) will be subject to VAT.

Nice thats what i was wondering. Wanted to order some Vitamins which are exempt from Irish VAT unless I misunderstood it. I was concerned if i should try to keep my order under 22euros but if u are right I can buy up to euro150 without being charged duty and of course no VAT at all.

Thanks

the lady

it's a bit off topic but, hmv are selling the complete west wing for 79 euro (including vat ;-)

Ticktactoe

Revenue held goods belonging to me and requested the invoice or paypal receipt. Got charged 37 euro and then goods were released. These goods were coming through an post. Couriers have also had instructions from customs to not deliever the goods unless the vat amount is paid from the customer, which has also happened to me!

jaffa20

So, all the goods i bought on topman and burton uk sites could be kept by customs until i pay VAT

This can't be right!!!:mad:

DundalkDuffman

Shipped from EU = no doody.

kaisersose77

what exactly was this new import duty EU law that was meant to be brought in on the 1st of Dec. When it was first mentioned I thought you could import up to 150euros worth of goods from outside EU without having to worry about import duty, but this doesnt seem to be case.

rh555

sure thats the case up to eur150 duty free and up to eur22 VAT free (unless ofcourse there is no VAT in Ireland on the same products as there are some)

Maybe there is something else i am not getting but this is how it was reported by the news etc.

P.S. Excise tax may still be paid normally (for cigarettes, alcohol etc.) but i am not sure about that

jor el

311 wrote: »

Play and Hmv operate in jersey ,jersey is part of the UK and not part of EU.

311 wrote: »

Lets call the kettle black and be done with it.

Let's all get on the one page, maybe. 4xcut simply pointed out that you were wrong about Jersey being in the UK, and you seem to be making more of that than necessary.

kaisersose77 wrote: »

what exactly was this new import duty EU law that was meant to be brought in on the 1st of Dec. When it was first mentioned I thought you could import up to 150euros worth of goods from outside EU without having to worry about import duty, but this doesnt seem to be case.

It applies to Duty only, VAT still applies after €22, duty (if applicable) is not applied until €150. If you go over these limits, then the duty/VAT applies to the whole amount, including shipping costs.

311

jor el wrote: »

Let's all get on the one page, maybe. 4xcut simply pointed out that you were wrong about Jersey being in the UK, and you seem to be making more of that than necessary.

Does England/Scotland/Wales have the same issues with goods from Jersey as Ireland does ?

Nody

311 wrote: »

Does England/Scotland/Wales have the same issues with goods from Jersey as Ireland does ?

In general yes, but for example play.com has made a deal with the UK government to pay UK tax for UK addresses iirc.

ejmaztec

Nody wrote: »

In general yes, but for example play.com has made a deal with the UK government to pay UK tax for UK addresses iirc.

The same for 7dayshop.

Doesn't it all boil down to the fact that the Irish government hasn't done a deal with Channel Islands? I think that this was brought up a year or two ago when the same pre-Christmas customs shenanigans were going on.

You'd think that it would save a lot of overtime costs etc etc, were the Irish government to sign a couple of forms instead of carrying on with the same hoo hah every year.

Nody

ejmaztec wrote: »

The same for 7dayshop.

Doesn't it all boil down to the fact that the Irish government hasn't done a deal with Channel Islands? I think that this was brought up a year or two ago when the same pre-Christmas customs shenanigans were going on.

Well it is also a question if the companies want to sign it in the first place (more paperwork for revenue etc.) as the companies are not the once suffering per say

ejmaztec

Nody wrote: »

Well it is also a question if the companies want to sign it in the first place (more paperwork for revenue etc.) as the companies are not the once suffering per say

The Revenue like paperwork and can't get enough of it.

I think that the companies would be suffering with potential customers not wanting the hassle of waiting for their parcel to be released on payment of vat etc.

I don't know whether the British government did a deal with each individual supplier, or with the Channel Islands' ruling bodies, though I would expect the latter to have happened, so the suppliers would probably have no choice.

ejmaztec

This is what happens if you live in the UK, as per HM Revenue and Customs website.

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageImport_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_001454&propertyType=document

If you buy goods online from Jersey or Guernsey

• Customs duty will not be charged.
• Import VAT is charged if the value of the goods is €22 (£18) and over.
• Many Channel Islands companies are part of a ‘VAT pre-payment’ scheme. This means you will be asked to pay import VAT if the value of the goods is over €22 (£18) at the time you pay for the goods. In this case you will not have to pay any additional costs when you receive your goods.
• Excise duty will be charged for some goods, for example alcohol and tobacco.

Just a reminder that the above relates to UK residents and doesn't apply here as the Irish government has not made any arrangements with the Channel Islands.

rubadub

I suspect the likes of play deliver containers or massive post bags to here. Then customs can be set up like an assembly line processing all the stuff really quick. They could have all the forms ready to go, no need to even open the stuff, the full cost is shown on the outside.

While with other packages they have to open and fill out forms etc. THe limit is €22 on gifts, and €45 on gifts. In previous years I remember the customs guys on TV saying the limit was €45, (no mention of gifts). I presumed anything under €45 was not really worth the admin costs associated with collecting the VAT

pissed

mmmmm just ordered a media drive today with 7dayshop valued at £159 plus delivery. From their site "The price shown INCLUDES UK VAT", so if I get hit for VAT do I pay 21.5% on top of this or do I pay the difference between the UK and the Irish VAT rates... UK being 15% at the moment??? so the difference being 6.5%

rubadub

pissed wrote: »

mmmmm just ordered a media drive today with 7dayshop valued at £159 plus delivery. From their site "The price shown INCLUDES UK VAT", so if I get hit for VAT do I pay 21.5% on top of this or do I pay the difference between the UK and the Irish VAT rates... UK being 15% at the moment??? so the difference being 6.5%

They ship from Jersey AFAIK, so you are liable for full VAT & duty. There is no discount.

Paulo Nuno

i got hit with a 51€ bill,by customs,for a digital tablet(wacom) that i bought in the US via ebay......

jor el

pissed wrote: »

mmmmm just ordered a media drive today with 7dayshop valued at £159 plus delivery. From their site "The price shown INCLUDES UK VAT", so if I get hit for VAT do I pay 21.5% on top of this or do I pay the difference between the UK and the Irish VAT rates... UK being 15% at the moment??? so the difference being 6.5%

If the VAT is indeed payed to the UK govt, then you shouldn't have to pay anything at all. You may need a VAT inclusive invoice/receipt for it to prove it though, if asked.

Some of these sites only pay the VAT when they ship to the UK, not sure about 7dayshop, but if they have not paid the VAT on your order, then you'll have to pay it (if asked to).

rubadub

jor el wrote: »

If the VAT is indeed payed to the UK govt, then you shouldn't have to pay anything at all. You may need a VAT inclusive invoice/receipt for it to prove it though,

Never heard of this before. Why do they not just pay Luxembourg tax at only 15%? Then they could offer stuff at even lower prices.

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

Aside from the deal done with the UK the prices on the likes of play.com / hmv etc are a vat free price which is why they look so attractive. What they charge you is pure cash to them. The gamble after that is with the consumer - you may or may not be stopped for import / vat etc at your countries customs.

Take a new release PS3 game on play retaiing at €51.99 - that's €51.99 cash to them. If you were to be stopped at customs you would be liable for the vat rate based on the current retail price in Ireland - ( RRP in this case is €59.99 which would include VAT at €10.62 ) so you could potentially end up paying € 62.00 plus for a game retailing at €59.99 in the shops here. Play.com are actually dearer than your high street bricks and mortar stores when you consider the vat due.


We think that it is important though to distinguish between jersey based stores and EU based - we are based in Ireland so our prices already include VAT at 21.5%. We are generally approx €54.99-€55.99 for the same product but our income is €45.25 and the Irish governments income is €9.73. VAT etc is already paid and our customers do not get any nasty surprises. In this case to answer the OPs question no we should not stop buying goods online but should make an informed decision on whom we buy from.

Two things which should be said here to balance this out - customs do not normally stop individual small packages from play.com ( it does happen but its not the normal at the moment ) Also the vat is levied on the value in the Irish market - so buying a special offer DVD box set for €20.00 when its on sale for €150 here could leave you paying €30.00 ish vat on it ( based on the €150 euro value )

There is talk in the current economic climate of the government instructing the revenue to clamp down on foreign vat free imports ( by lowering thresholds etc ) as in the example above the government has lost a revenue of €9.73 from the sale of the new release PS3 game on play. A lot of money is being spent outside the country online and it is hurting the goverment coffers. ( The rights and wrongs of this is for a seperate debate and I dont wish to be seen to have taken a stance on this issue at all !! )

We dont see there being much chance of a deal being done similar to Jersey and UK etc ( the reason this deal was done was that Britain have a very large influence on what happens in Jersey and Jerseys position of being outside the EU from a VAT perspective was starting to badly hurt the English governments revenue as more and more companies located shipping operations there to take advantage ) The UK govt "encouraged" Jersey to put this in operation and to "encourage" companies there to sign up for it.

Play.com and the other companies involved have no reason to suddenly take a 21.5% cut in their prices - they are under no pressure to do so and in fact Jersey would encourage them not to as if that deal was to be done with all countries there would be no point in being there in Jersey at all.

One last point about the vat rate in Luxembourg etc - EU law also states that after a certain threshold has been reached companies are obliged to charge the appropriate vat rate of the country they are shipping to and pay that vat to that countries revenue so being based in Luxembourg would still end up with a 21.5% vat charge to Ireland.

311

Gamesnash prices can be more expensive than shops in Dublin.
I've bought in shops rather than at gamesnash ,mostly because of the delivery charges.

jor el

rubadub wrote: »

Never heard of this before. Why do they not just pay Luxembourg tax at only 15%? Then they could offer stuff at even lower prices.

Because they ship the majority of their items to the UK, and they struck a deal with the UK Revenue office. I wouldn't be sure that they don't pay any VAT on items being shipped to Ireland, as there was no deal made with any other EU country.

If you buy something, that is VAT payed in any EU country, then you don't pay VAT when you bring it into your own country (or any other country). If a company is shipping more than a certain amount into any destination EU country, then they are obliged to charge VAT at that country's rate. Hence, when you buy from Amazon.co.uk, you pay Irish VAT, and not UK VAT.

97i9y3941

somebody else asked about cigs in another post,well,could you import them?,if you bought them from that country and had tax paid and posted them?i woundnt think it be that easy or straight foward,otherwise half the country be importing them

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

311 wrote: »

Gamesnash prices can be more expensive than shops in Dublin.
I've bought in shops rather than at gamesnash ,mostly because of the delivery charges.

Don't neccessarily want to hijack this thread with a pricing debate but we would like to point out that we have a free delivery service. Delivery charges only apply if a customer chooses registered or express postage.

311

Gamesnash ,call of duty world at war(PS3) is 54.99 in smyths
Gamesnash have it for 57.99

Thats the first game i searched on both sites to compare ,considering the wage costs of smyths it's better value from them.
I'd like to buy from you ,but it's nothing to do with play.com and hmv.com . It's got to do with value from yourselves.

Edit : sorry for going off topic.

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

311 wrote: »

Gamesnash ,call of duty world at war(PS3) is 54.99 in smyths
Gamesnash have it for 57.99

Thats the first game i searched on both sites to compare ,considering the wage costs of smyths it's better value from them.
I'd like to buy from you ,but it's nothing to do with play.com and hmv.com . It's got to do with value from yourselves.

Again not going to hijack this thread with the pricing debate - if you wish to start a thread by all means we can keep chatting there in the mean time we would point out that we have responded in detail to similar posts around this board about pricing - it is something that became an issue for us in the latter part of the year when Smyths / Game etc dropped their retail prices. That retail in particular we are tied to based on the cost price of that item.

Going forward we have agreed new pricing structures with the Irish distributors to address this and if you check our pre order pages for upcoming releases you will see that our pricing has become a lot more attractive.

pissed

If you buy something, that is VAT payed in any EU country, then you don't pay VAT when you bring it into your own country (or any other country).

Cant remember the exact words on the package but it did state that UK VAT was paid. I did not get hit with any other charges on the drive .

rubadub

Gamesnash.ie wrote: »

Aside from the deal done with the UK the prices on the likes of play.com / hmv etc are a vat free price which is why they look so attractive. What they charge you is pure cash to them. The gamble after that is with the consumer - you may or may not be stopped for import / vat etc at your countries customs.

Yes, and then you have people saying they were "stung/caught" by customs, while they never say customs stung me for €10 in HMV!

Gamesnash.ie wrote: »

Also the vat is levied on the value in the Irish market - so buying a special offer DVD box set for €20.00 when its on sale for €150 here could leave you paying €30.00 ish vat on it ( based on the €150 euro value )

Have you, or anybody else ever heard of this happening with a company like play who will include a full & legit invoice?
I have not, I have heard of it happening with the likes of shady companies, like on ebay they will mark it as a gift worth $10, but then customs find a €400 ipod inside and go with market value.

Gamesnash.ie wrote: »

There is talk in the current economic climate of the government instructing the revenue to clamp down on foreign vat free imports ( by lowering thresholds etc ) as in the example above the government has lost a revenue of €9.73 from the sale of the new release PS3 game on play.

The limit is €22, so it is the governments fault for not collecting that €9.73, not the current limits. Have you any links about the lowering of thresholds. The €22 is already low, in fact I have seen customs spokespeople on TV at xmas in previous years stating the limit was €45, which is the limit for gifts. The fact is the administration costs involved would not warrant collection of duty & VAT on low cost items, and duty is not charge below €150 now (which is small compared to VAT which is charged). I think play are hit easier since I expect their stuff arrives in containers or massive sacks, and they can dedicate a team of people to rifle through them all, they probably have "play.com paperwork" all ready to go, people know where to see the prices on packages so they could efficiently deal with it.

They could however increase the processing fee of these small packages to cover admin costs.

Gamesnash.ie wrote: »

One last point about the vat rate in Luxembourg etc - EU law also states that after a certain threshold has been reached companies are obliged to charge the appropriate vat rate of the country they are shipping to and pay that vat to that countries revenue so being based in Luxembourg would still end up with a 21.5% vat charge to Ireland.

jor el wrote: »

If a company is shipping more than a certain amount into any destination EU country, then they are obliged to charge VAT at that country's rate. Hence, when you buy from Amazon.co.uk, you pay Irish VAT, and not UK VAT.

Yes, I heard this before, pixmania are the same. I would have thought play.com are well above this threshold though. I was thinking the loophole might be that play send container loads to the UK, and then have a business setup in the UK too, then post is forwarded on from the UK, and is therefore not sent from Jersey. My mate got a sweatshirt off play and was not charged duty, it was high value, but it was shipped from the UK I think. I saw 2 play packages in my house today and they were jersey shipped (low value). I don't see why companies would pay UK VAT if the goods never even touch down in that country, play or other UK VAT payers who are below the threshold should be offering goods at lower prices than to the UK, and not pay any VAT, just let the customer take the risk.

I got a package from jersey today, it was £20.99, in tiny writing on it was "value £17.99", then the invoice said £20.99 which includes a service charge of £3.

Fred83 wrote: »

somebody else asked about cigs in another post,well,could you import them?

Not in the post. Check here

Gamesnash.ie wrote: »

we have a free delivery service.

Aha, so you found the same volunteer postmen as play & cd-wow!;)

311 wrote: »

Gamesnash ,call of duty world at war(PS3) is 54.99 in smyths
Gamesnash have it for 57.99

Thats the first game i searched on both sites to compare ,considering the wage costs of smyths it's better value from them.

The price of postage is included, there are no volunteer postmen. I couldn't care less about wage costs, or if smyths had spent money on red carpets and lads bowing at me on the way in. The fact is I usually buy online and save a fortune, sometimes I pay more online, but still save! The bus into town & back would cost me more than that €3 difference, then there is my time and hassle etc.

97i9y3941

bloody admin costs,its always the same

jor el

The admin cost is charged by, and kept by, the delivery agent, such as An Post, DHL, FedEx, etc. The Govt doesn't get any of this, except that VAT is also applied to the admin charge, which they do get. The postal carrier is allowed to charge up to €15 for this fee.

311

rubadub wrote: »

The price of postage is included, there are no volunteer postmen. I couldn't care less about wage costs, or if smyths had spent money on red carpets and lads bowing at me on the way in. The fact is I usually buy online and save a fortune, sometimes I pay more online, but still save! The bus into town & back would cost me more than that €3 difference, then there is my time and hassle etc.

Crikey ,i see the world in a different light now. Thanks for enlightening me ,everyone should open an internet business and sell for the same price:)