Is the irish music scene dead?

neonoranges

Ok.... this is something thats been on my mind. is the irish music scene dead for new bands? I'd written a pretty hefty post and just decided to delete it....... In my eyes the scene for new bands is totally dead..... theres no one there interested in developing new bands....... its great what fight like apes are doing but its sad that there Is only one new irish band doing anyway well for themselves...... I think there is an insane amount of talent in ireland at the moment..... was there ever a good scene for new bands in ireland or is one ever likely to develope?

miju

there was a great scene IMHO about 2-3 years ago with about 4 or 5 very active voluntary organisations / communities involved with promoting bands and tours and setting up various networks for bands to help themselves.

Unfortunately one by one they all fell by the wayside as peoples personal lives took from their time to do it and the Irish scene is where it's at today.

It's still VERY active just nowhere near as coherent as it was IMO

Kenners

There's an Irish Music scene? WHen did this happen?

Xavi6

Personally I think Fight Like Apes are a load of shite and we would be better off having no Irish scene rather than one littered with bands like that. On a par with the Ting Tings in terms of how irritating they are.

Anyway, there hasn't been a really good scene in Ireland since the likes of Wilt and Turn ceased to exist. From around 2002 to 2005 there were some great records released by bands that should have made it, e.g. Melaton. Very little, if anything, excites me about the Irish music these days.

pfishfood

Yes its been on the decline since two years ago unfortunatly. Its heading the way of WCW towards the end (thats pro wrestling). i.e. poorer quality

ShawnRaven

pfishfood wrote: »

Yes its been on the decline since two years ago unfortunatly. Its heading the way of WCW towards the end (thats pro wrestling). i.e. poorer quality

No it's not. WCW was actually getting better towards the end regarding talent, but just didn't have a stage to perform on regarding television time.

The Irish music scene suffers the same thing it's suffered from for several years, lack of exposure. It gets some exposure, but not enough.

Bubs101

He's probably reffering to Thunder, not Nitro.

I'd agree with Xavi. The bands are so bad that having them constantly play UCD is an annoyance more than anything else.Remember one of my freinds took my to Fight Like Apes saying they were really good and I just stood there listening to screeching over some vintage nintendo music .If I heard that Fight Like Apes were playing a free gig in the Student Bar again I'd go to the forum bar

yevveh

There's good elements but an immense lack of publicity and funding don't do it any justice. The guys and gals from Human Music and Primal Jelly Social Club (myspace.com/knockanstockan) put on some great events in McGruders and elsewhere, even did the Knockanstockan festival down in Blessington (I think). ****loads of deadly guys playing at their events - New Secret Weapon, Mescalito, James Guilmartin, etc. It's up to people to find out about these smaller bands and support them, because if there's no support, how are things supposed to grow into a scene?

The Irish post rock scene has gotten a lot better with the birth of Richter Collective / Organised Ideas, Adebisi, Vimanas, Terrordactyl, Bats, Enemies, etc. - but that's just one scene. The hardcore/emo scene doesn't seem to be doing too bad either. But if you're judging on what bands you've read in the papers or what bands get publicity, then of course you're going to be restricted to FLA, Republic of Loose, the Kinetics, yada yada yada. Nothing wrong with those guys but they're not the be all and end all of Irish music.

EDIT: I can't believe I forgot to mention RSAG, Redneck Manifesto, Jape, Jimmy Cake, Dudley Corporation. I was thinking of smaller bands than them (with the exception of Bats and Adebisi).

neonoranges

I think there are alot of good bands in Ireland at the moment..... i've gone to alot of gigs in the last year...... bands seem to rely on there friends to come to gigs (even some bands that get good coverage on radio/magazines)..... promoters don't promote.... i don't think theres any interest in 'underground' music in ireland..... i think you have to come prepackaged with day time radio play and lots of magazine coverage for any one to show a vague interest.... i don't think many irish bands have any real ambition either but maybe i'm wrong...

eoinf

why do we need an irish music scene if all it produces are ****e bands?

director, humanzi , fight like apes , ham poxy ****fest , coronas et al. hardly anything to go ranting and raving about.

music has never been more accessible , good bands should prosper with or without a "scene" for them to hang onto. just look at how many crap bands got albums released on the coat tails of the "brit-pop" era.

As for live gigs i think its better not having a scene, at least the promoters and venues go out searching for decent international bands and bring them to Ireland rather than trying to fill venues with ****ty homegrown bands.

just look at any week in the village/whelans id say a very small percentage are Irish, would you rather some of these nights had Irish bands play to half empty venues?

no thanks

yevveh

eoinf wrote: »

why do we need an irish music scene if all it produces are ****e bands?

director, humanzi , fight like apes , ham poxy ****fest , coronas et al. hardly anything to go ranting and raving about.

music has never been more accessible , good bands should prosper with or without a "scene" for them to hang onto. just look at how many crap bands got albums released on the coat tails of the "brit-pop" era.

As for live gigs i think its better not having a scene, at least the promoters and venues go out searching for decent international bands and bring them to Ireland rather than trying to fill venues with ****ty homegrown bands.

just look at any week in the village/whelans id say a very small percentage are Irish, would you rather some of these nights had Irish bands play to half empty venues?

no thanks

so, you think every band in ireland is godawful. all of those bands you've mentioned are accessible and radio-friendly, thus they get attention. naturally you have to look a bit deeper if you want to find anything that's interesting. how do you expect good bands to prosper if there's no scene for them to hang on to and an attitude that says "if it's Irish, it's ****"?

HouseHippo

think the Irish Music Scene is pretty strong at the moment..talent wise,there are some seriously great bands out there,forget your Coronas and Fight Like Apes,these bands are far better and much lesser known.

However due to certain organisations,many small dublin venues are losing out on gigs,also many young new irish bands are getting rough deals and moving to England etc to further career,which is definitely hampering our music scene.

2-3 years ago when I first discovered and started working on the Irish music scene it was great,lots of new talent coming out of the woodwork etc. There were many festivals and organistaions dedicated to showcasing homegrown talent but now this has deminished greatly as people are more in it for the money than the music.

Take the HWCH festival for example.I have been involved with this the past 3 years. This year many of the sponsers etc revoked their funding leaving it to many independent organisations to take care of it.
Many of the people working at this festival worked hard for weeks with little or no money and or recognition.
If you are gonna complain about the music scene in Ireland you should get out there and support it.Go to see irish bands in smaller irish venues like Whelans ,the Village,Radio City etc.Help to support irish bands,promote them buy their ep's etc.

It's up to us to save the irish music scene,ao instead of complaining about it do something.Music has always been a great part of Irish culture and we need to maintain this!!
Also just wait for 2009,Recessions always bring out the best in musical talent.It'sd gonna be a great year for music and a bad year for our pockets,we just need to put a little money aside to spend on the music scene.

Another thing which is hampering the development of our music scene is the new licencing laws.I myslef have worked freelance in a few Irish venues this year who are all finidng trouble managing due to these laws.Compared to places in London etc who open all day and night etc etc. That is why many high profile irish venue owners and booking agents are moving to the UK and other EU countries. http://giveusthenight.com if you agree.

Also irish broadcasting agents again are all about the money rather than the music.With NoDisco ,Music Cubed and most recently Nightshift all being cancelled and The Last Broadcast having little or no budget compared to other rte shows there is very little room for us to get irish bands out there to the masses.
There was also a day when Phantom played an Irish band once every 3 songs and i don't mean Fight Like Apes,Coronas or The Blizzards.Now you are lucky if you hear any up and coming irish bands every few hours.Many of the irish stations have regulations of how many irish abnds they must play every hour etc,they cheat this by playing band who have recorded in pulse or Grouse Lodge and say this is "irish music" or just play Snow Patrol or u2 or of course the Coronas
Also many people have been saying there aren't any good irish bands out there today what about: Jape,Redneck manifesto,Angel Pier,Dirty Epics, Black Eagle Charm,Anagog,Red Kid,Distractors,Ham Sandwich,Pamela and the Trouble Is,Jimmy Cake,Cap Pas Cap,Kinetics,Aortal etc etc.
And as for good irish music nights you have Human Music and Dublin underground and other great nights in McGrudders and Radio City and often they organise all agers in whelans etc We also ahve a thriving metal subculture in venues such as fibbers and a rockabilly scene in the dice bar and also stomping ground nights which showcase the best in irish rockabilly bands such as spellbound as well as international acts.We only have one or 2 independant irish music magazines,Analouge and connected are great and guess what they are free but not near enough widely produced

miju

HouseHippo wrote: »

Take the HWCH festival for example.I have been involved with this the past 3 years. This year many of the sponsers etc revoked their funding leaving it to many independent organisations to take care of it.

All I'll say on that one is that the sponsors pulling out was not due to a bad Irish music scene. It was to do with certain people thought thinkin they were the dogs proverbials and rightly got slapped back into place

Really don't want to get started on HWCH but it is a great example of why the Irish music scene as gone completely tits up with regards to an actual proper independent industry here.

PaulBrewer

[QUOTE=neonoranges;58393538 theres no one there interested in developing new bands....... [/QUOTE]

That kind of thinking is rife and a large part of the problem.

The BAND develop themselves (or not)!

If a band can't develop at the lowest level, one would think they won't cut it at the next one.

That's one of the good things about the way the business is going. No record company will be signing 25 bands that sound like the 'hip' band anymore.

If you scale the wall into the 'Music Biz' you'll be doing it by yourself ....

Unless you're in X-factor that is, then the Aunties and the cousins will give you a hand

PaulBrewer

miju wrote: »

there was a great scene IMHO about 2-3 years ago with about 4 or 5 very active voluntary organisations / communities involved with promoting bands and tours and setting up various networks for bands to help themselves.

Unfortunately one by one they all fell by the wayside as peoples personal lives took from their time to do it and the Irish scene is where it's at today.

It's still VERY active just nowhere near as coherent as it was IMO

What was that then? Sounds interesting.

PaulBrewer

eoinf wrote: »

music has never been more accessible , good bands should prosper with or without a "scene" for them to hang onto. just look at how many crap bands got albums released on the coat tails of the "brit-pop" era.

Those days are gone forever I wager ...

PaulBrewer

HouseHippo wrote: »

many young new irish bands are getting rough deals and moving to England etc to further career,which is definitely hampering our music scene.

It's up to us to save the irish music scene,ao instead of complaining about it do something.Music has always been a great part of Irish culture and we need to maintain this!!

Good Points.

insinkerator

^ you know, due to a lot of demand a while back, vBulletin released a new version fo their software with an added feature called the multi-quote button. It can be found between the regular quote button and the fast reply button. Simply click the multi-quote button on all the posts you wish to quote and then click the standard quote button. Boom! multiple quotes on one page. I'm not implying anything.... just saying is all

On topic: The main problems with the irish music scene at the moment are

Lack of initiative. I think this is on both sides of the stick Like pretty much anything to do with the irish public, if we arent spoonfed, it isnt gonna happen. Many people dont have the drive anymore to get up and go to a local gig. And on the other hand, these so called promoters, dont seem to be doing much to earn their title. I think organiser would be a more suitable title (FYI, a sole blog on bebo does not count as promotion)

Quantity over quality. There really is a huge amount of bands floating around these days, and it is godawfully difficult trying to sift through the crap to find anything worth-while. Another component of this problem is, many young people seem to have this conception that liking a band that no one has heard of, and name-dropping it in conversation makes them cool. Whatever if the band was good, but more often than not, this results in a whole pile of undeserved and unnecessary hype about an at best, stunningly average band

PaulBrewer

insinkerator wrote: »

^ you know, due to a lot of demand a while back, vBulletin released a new version fo their software with an added feature called the multi-quote button. It can be found between the regular quote button and the fast reply button. Simply click the multi-quote button on all the posts you wish to quote and then click the standard quote button. Boom! multiple quotes on one page. I'm not implying anything.... just saying is all

Thanks, I didn't know that - every day's a school day around here. I was just answering as I read the posts.


With regard to your other points -

I think what you're describing is right - how ever it's also as it ever was. There's only a few who have the get up and go to do anything, this is true for all walks of life, not just music.

Some bands have a drive that doesn't exist in your 'average' band.

I've been lucky enough to work with and be in the company of, people who are successful in the music business. Their is a common trait ( an X factor?) that they seem to share, a drive that us mere mortals don't have.

miju

PaulBrewer wrote: »

What was that then? Sounds interesting.

talking about the likes of:

Music Network - not sure what happened
CPU.ie - no ones publicly sure what happened
Gigsmart - still going but effectively dead and suffering death by 1,000 cuts. though they've some thing starting again with the TBMC apparently
Goldenplec - just a music magazine / community these days (though apparently have aspirations or returning to what they used to do)
Thumped - various things still spring from this from time to time
Cluas - pulled it's horns back in and went back to being a music magazine only (what it always done best TBH)
Musicians.org - domain was bought by IMA and the guys who used to run tours / gigs etc just disapeared
Irish Unsigned - still being run but owner was "disenfranchised" shall we say from partaking in further endevours to promote the scene

There were literally another 30 or so similiar to the above but above where really the main front runners in organising various things around Dublin and nationwide with tours , TV , radio , general gigs and providing various resources and advice.

PaulBrewer

miju wrote: »

talking about the likes of:

Music Network - not sure what happened
CPU.ie - no ones publicly sure what happened
Gigsmart - still going but effectively dead and suffering death by 1,000 cuts. though they've some thing starting again with the TBMC apparently
Goldenplec - just a music magazine / community these days (though apparently have aspirations or returning to what they used to do)
Thumped - various things still spring from this from time to time
Cluas - pulled it's horns back in and went back to being a music magazine only (what it always done best TBH)
Musicians.org - domain was bought by IMA and the guys who used to run tours / gigs etc just disapeared
Irish Unsigned - still being run but owner was "disenfranchised" shall we say from partaking in further endevours to promote the scene

There were literally another 30 or so similiar to the above but above where really the main front runners in organising various things around Dublin and nationwide with tours , TV , radio , general gigs and providing various resources and advice.

I've heard of some of those, why do you think they've failed or perhaps a better word is stopped overall? Is it a case of the mountain is too high to climb?

miju

well from being actively involved in one of them and knowing the guys behind most of the rest the main reason for alot of them was personal lives / other commitments took over.

SimonMaher

HouseHippo wrote: »

There was also a day when Phantom played an Irish band once every 3 songs and i don't mean Fight Like Apes,Coronas or The Blizzards.Now you are lucky if you hear any up and coming irish bands every few hours.Many of the irish stations have regulations of how many irish abnds they must play every hour etc,

....Also many people have been saying there aren't any good irish bands out there today what about: Jape,Redneck manifesto,Angel Pier,Dirty Epics, Black Eagle Charm,Anagog,Red Kid,Distractors,Ham Sandwich,Pamela and the Trouble Is,Jimmy Cake,Cap Pas Cap,Kinetics,Aortal etc

..

Interesting debate this and its cyclical too. Im an old git, and I remember having this debate about the irish music scene being apparently dead in McGongagles in 1989.

Anyway, for clarification on the Phantom bit. Househippo seems to be saying that we play a lot less up and coming acts than we used to and then later in the post lists a whole stack of bands that we have in fact put on daytime rotation. Examples: Jape, Red Kid, Distractors, Ham Sandwich, Kinetics (just to pull some from the list above). Throw in Dirty Epics, Saville, The Flaws, Ann Scott, PonyClub, Chakras, Cowboy X, Autamata, Crayonsmith from recent daytime playlists. This is in addition to the more well known Irish bands like Fight Like Apes, Director, Republic of Loose etc.

Then theres I-Con, every Wednesday night from 10-12 midnight, our new Irish music showcase. Tracks played on Icon regularly move on to the daytime playlist.

If music is good, it will get played on Phantom, simple as that. When music is getting chosen for daytime radio-play on commercial radio it is usually judged on two grounds. First is its quality/listenability and the second is its familiarity. In the case of new Irish music (or indeed any music), Radio stations are unwilling for commercial reasons to take risks on non-famililar tracks and artists. Thats just the way it is. Stations like Phantom are in a position to offer daytime airplay to acts that dont meet the familiarity requirement but it still has to be good!

Theres a section on phantom.ie dealing with submitting music for possible airplay. If youre releasing stuff, read it and then send it in.

Thats just my view with the Radio hat on. Carry on!

Simon Maher
Phantom 105.2

studiorat

There is no Irish Music Business. Anyone who say's so will be sleepin with the fishes!!!

It's always been small, the average musician earns €10,000 a year. I don't think it's ever been particularly more or less successful over the years.

PaulBrewer

Simon Maher wrote: »

Interesting debate this and its cyclical too. Im an old git, and I remember having this debate about the irish music scene being apparently dead in McGongagles in 1989.

Anyway, for clarification on the Phantom bit. Househippo seems to be saying that we play a lot less up and coming acts than we used to and then later in the post lists a whole stack of bands that we have in fact put on daytime rotation. Examples: Jape, Red Kid, Distractors, Ham Sandwich, Kinetics (just to pull some from the list above). Throw in Dirty Epics, Saville, The Flaws, Ann Scott, PonyClub, Chakras, Cowboy X, Autamata, Crayonsmith from recent daytime playlists. This is in addition to the more well known Irish bands like Fight Like Apes, Director, Republic of Loose etc.

Then theres I-Con, every Wednesday night from 10-12 midnight, our new Irish music showcase. Tracks played on Icon regularly move on to the daytime playlist.

If music is good, it will get played on Phantom, simple as that. When music is getting chosen for daytime radio-play on commercial radio it is usually judged on two grounds. First is its quality/listenability and the second is its familiarity. In the case of new Irish music (or indeed any music), Radio stations are unwilling for commercial reasons to take risks on non-famililar tracks and artists. Thats just the way it is. Stations like Phantom are in a position to offer daytime airplay to acts that dont meet the familiarity requirement but it still has to be good!

Theres a section on phantom.ie dealing with submitting music for possible airplay. If youre releasing stuff, read it and then send it in.

Thats just my view with the Radio hat on. Carry on!

Simon Maher
Phantom 105.2

Good Post Simon !

To go slightly off topic ( I hope the OP won't mind) one perennial question we have on the Music Prod Forum is that are a lot of recordings a high enough
quality from daytime's radio perspective?

Are you the man to answer that I wonder, at least give an insider's view?

Simon Maher wrote: »

Interesting debate this and its cyclical too. Im an old git, and I remember having this debate about the irish music scene being apparently dead in McGongagles in 1989.

That was probably a 'golden age' of local rock. I remember Feile 1990 and as I recall every band on the main stage was Irish. It was very exciting...

el_tiddlero

indeed the Irish music scene is not dead - OP is just lazy.
there's many sites/blogs dedicated to telling you all about the latest Irish releases + shows - all you have to do is get off your hole and go see something that you like the sound of.
myspace and last.fm are your friends.
also, see the top 5 indie bands in ireland thread for many, many names of good bands (so long as you don't mind digging through the filth that is.)

a new question, "Are untimely predictions of the death of the Irish music scence dead??"

Yes.

homerun_homer

In my mind it's with O'Leary in the grave.

Fight Like Apes are non sense. The bands I like that are going now are not making any inroads abroad and so it's a shame to see them just hanging around Ireland. at that I wouldn't call it a scene since they haven't similar musical styles.
The Dublin rock scene for me consists of Humanzi, the Things and Brothers Movement etc and others like Mighty Stef but that is a pure Dublin thing. NME Ireland tried to big up Humanzi to the Irish and not the brits and at that they got a roasting as they only sold 500 albums.

el_tiddlero

homerun_homer wrote: »

In my mind it's with O'Leary in the grave.

Fight Like Apes are non sense. The bands I like that are going now are not making any inroads abroad and so it's a shame to see them just hanging around Ireland. at that I wouldn't call it a scene since they haven't similar musical styles.
The Dublin rock scene for me consists of Humanzi, the Things and Brothers Movement etc and others like Mighty Stef but that is a pure Dublin thing. NME Ireland tried to big up Humanzi to the Irish and not the brits and at that they got a roasting as they only sold 500 albums.

I don't think you can call a local scene dead because the bands aren't getting exposure overseas - the idea of a local scene is that it's LOCAL, i.e. the bands do well where they're from. Obviously any band would love to be big elsewhere, but that takes time and money - time they have plenty of, but money is hard to come by if everyone sits at home bitchin' on the internet about how there's no good bands here, rather than biting the bullet, spending a fiver at the door and taking a look for themselves..

If you think the Dublin rock scene consists of those you mentioned then you too are not looking hard enough, see Yevveh's post about Adebisi Shank, BATS, and numerous others. Those bands charge between 5-10 bucks for their live shows and what you see is way better than the overpriced, overrated UK/US imports that the big promoters push.. I dare anyone to go to 10 gigs of Irish bands they don't know and come back telling me that they didn't see one thing they were into..

Learning by discovery people, it's all the rage these days.

neonoranges

el tiddero.... you missed my point.... music being created in ireland at the moment is great.... but compare how UK bands are pushed to develope as compared with Irish bands.... the BBC has this big 'introducing' initiative going on in all regions of the UK where new bands get active exposure on the radio and live

PaulBrewer.... i realise that a band is 100% responsible for its own 'success'... but its about working as hard as you can and then taking your breaks.... there just doesn't seem to be to many breaks in ireland...

HardWorkingCH.... is a great idea. The line up as a whole this year was great. I thought there were a few bands that didn't get on the line up that worked harder and had more talent than some bands played.... but i guess that happens... some times these things come down to who you know.... i'm not sure how much bands benefit from it but its still big for a new band in ireland...

PaulBrewer

neonoranges wrote: »

el tiddero.... you missed my point.... music being created in ireland at the moment is great.... but compare how UK bands are pushed to develope as compared with Irish bands.... the BBC has this big 'introducing' initiative going on in all regions of the UK where new bands get active exposure on the radio and live

PaulBrewer.... i realise that a band is 100% responsible for its own 'success'... but its about working as hard as you can and then taking your breaks.... there just doesn't seem to be to many breaks in ireland...

HardWorkingCH.... is a great idea. The line up as a whole this year was great. I thought there were a few bands that didn't get on the line up that worked harder and had more talent than some bands played.... but i guess that happens... some times these things come down to who you know.... i'm not sure how much bands benefit from it but its still big for a new band in ireland...

Good Points NeonOranges. There never was and probably will be significant opportunities here as Ireland is so small.

If you take a four piece band and a manager that's 5 wages to be knocked out before anything happens.

Taking it that their income from records will probably be nonexistent unless they do a 'The Squipt' on it their only income is live.

So to knock even €25k each a year out of it would be a major achievement locally allowing for the expense of gigging too.

The upside is that as music promotion is now more Netcentric one could argue that there are more international opportunities than ever (not implying there are many!)

Tom Robinson on BBC 6music's 'Introducing' program does a great job of doing just that and they're surprisingly listenable programs.

Don't the Beeb, or one of the UK stations sponsor a Baby Band tour too something similar to that NME tour?

I love BBC 6Music radio and am a supporter of Rte's 2XM which is essentially a state sponsored Pirate (at the moment anyway -if they'll excuse me saying so) - they've no significant budget yet but I was thinking it could be an ideal vehicle for a New Band Show ..... lets see what happens.

However all these ideas can only work if there's a supply of New Bands to support them ..... which takes us back to my original point.

SimonMaher

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Good Post Simon !

To go slightly off topic ( I hope the OP won't mind) one perennial question we have on the Music Prod Forum is that are a lot of recordings a high enough
quality from daytime's radio perspective?

Are you the man to answer that I wonder, at least give an insider's view?

Hi Paul,

The quick answer is no! We would get dozens of demos/unsigned releases in on a weekly basis to Phantom. The ones that are 96k mp3 burned on to a CD with nothing written on it go in the bin first and then the sorting starts.

Its a real shame when something that is a good song is ruined by dreadful production or mixing or the final mastered version sounds horrible. We have no problem as I mentioned above slotting new acts in between million sellers but they have to sound sonically good.

Radio output is quite heavily processed and compressed anyway, so from a recording point of view, nice simple production is best. Master it, stick it through a broadcast plugin and see how it sounds. If it sounds good, send it in and if it doesnt, start again!

Cheers,
Simon

PaulBrewer

Simon Maher wrote: »

Hi Paul,

The quick answer is no! We would get dozens of demos/unsigned releases in on a weekly basis to Phantom. The ones that are 96k mp3 burned on to a CD with nothing written on it go in the bin first and then the sorting starts.

Its a real shame when something that is a good song is ruined by dreadful production or mixing or the final mastered version sounds horrible. We have no problem as I mentioned above slotting new acts in between million sellers but they have to sound sonically good.

Radio output is quite heavily processed and compressed anyway, so from a recording point of view, nice simple production is best. Master it, stick it through a broadcast plugin and see how it sounds. If it sounds good, send it in and if it doesnt, start again!

Cheers,
Simon

Simon, may I rob your post and re-post it in the Music Prod Forum?

neonoranges

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Good Points NeonOranges. There never was and probably will be significant opportunities here as Ireland is so small.

If you take a four piece band and a manager that's 5 wages to be knocked out before anything happens.

Taking it that their income from records will probably be nonexistent unless they do a 'The Squipt' on it their only income is live.

So to knock even €25k each a year out of it would be a major achievement locally allowing for the expense of gigging too.

The upside is that as music promotion is now more Netcentric one could argue that there are more international opportunities than ever (not implying there are many!)

Tom Robinson on BBC 6music's 'Introducing' program does a great job of doing just that and they're surprisingly listenable programs.

Don't the Beeb, or one of the UK stations sponsor a Baby Band tour too something similar to that NME tour?

I love BBC 6Music radio and am a supporter of Rte's 2XM which is essentially a state sponsored Pirate (at the moment anyway -if they'll excuse me saying so) - they've no significant budget yet but I was thinking it could be an ideal vehicle for a New Band Show ..... lets see what happens.

However all these ideas can only work if there's a supply of New Bands to support them ..... which takes us back to my original point.

hi Paul, i wouldn't even reduce it down to pay.... alot of bands starting out will work there bollox of and end up paying to play for a long time.....
bbc introducing also isn't just limited to Tom robinson, theres different dj's show casing bands from different parts of the country, i think tom does a nationwide show?? its a pretty big thing at the moment in the beeb.... Glastonbury also has affiliated introducing stages.

HouseHippo

miju wrote: »

All I'll say on that one is that the sponsors pulling out was not due to a bad Irish music scene. It was to do with certain people thought thinkin they were the dogs proverbials and rightly got slapped back into place

Really don't want to get started on HWCH but it is a great example of why the Irish music scene as gone completely tits up with regards to an actual proper independent industry here.

Yeah thats what i was saying....greed as usual ya know

ZakAttak

The Village venue makes more money out of comedy gigs then it does out of music. There are more people are attending these gigs then there are going to concerts. Some of them are going as part of corporate bookings (work-nights out), but the fact remains they're a bigger draw.

Sport; I've had many debates about this with fellow music lovers and I'm still convinced that the increased number of major sporting events in Ireland, coupled with the increase in Irish people attending events abroad (mainly due to a better financial situation) has meant that many music events (other than the big summer festivals) have suffered.

Years ago you would have to wait months for your favourite foreign based band to play here. Nowadays theres a chance they'll be playing within a few weeks, and soon after that there will be another favourite band of yours playing. Irish music fans are saving they're money to see those bands rather than see small Irish bands. It wasn't always like this, sometimes people ended up seeing bands they didn't really like because there was nowhere else to go.

11811

I wouldn't say its dead, but needs a good swift kick up the ass! Its bad when you ask someone from outside the country who a good Irish band are and they the Script!:eek: Anyway there are quite a few genuinely talented and hard working bands out there, but from my experience it can be soul-destroying trying to make it there, its seems so hard to get gigs in Ireland for original artists, unless you want to pay the venue for the pleasure of having you..
While there is some support for local music in the cities, bands from smaller towns I'm sure struggle to get both gigs and their music played.
Also I think some more support for original Irish music from our national broadcasters wont go amiss, throwing on the Coronas and FLA dosnt quite cut it. Some independent stations (Phantom, Red Fm) are good for this but don't get quite the same coverage.

stateofflux

its dieing...and its not because of a lack of unsigned talent....the reasons are

a) there are dozens of big international acts playing here every week so irish people are spoiled...so its very difficult for a band to get any sort of following when they are playing eamonn dorans and there are 5 big signed bands playing olympia, vicar st, academy, ambassador etc on the same night....there is no real loyalty for this reason......

b)shows like nightshift on channel 6 getting pulled off the air...their is no shows apart from small slots on rte (den tv , last broadcast)that showcases unsigned bands on tv ...in the end no exposure = no scene

c) phantom FM DOES showcase a lot of unsigned talent which is more than (apart from 2fm) any of the top ten radio stations do....sorry but today FM does **** all....

d) zero risk taking by major labels...look at the recent signings...blizzards, corona's...these are very blue chip signings based on a proven boring snow patrol formula.......

PaulBrewer

stateofflux wrote: »

its dieing...and its not because of a lack of unsigned talent....the reasons are

a) there are dozens of big international acts playing here every week so irish people are spoiled...so its very difficult for a band to get any sort of following when they are playing eamonn dorans and there are 5 big signed bands playing olympia, vicar st, academy, ambassador etc on the same night....there is no real loyalty for this reason......

b)shows like nightshift on channel 6 getting pulled off the air...their is no shows apart from small slots on rte (den tv , last broadcast)that showcases unsigned bands on tv ...in the end no exposure = no scene

c) phantom FM DOES showcase a lot of unsigned talent which is more than (apart from 2fm) any of the top ten radio stations do....sorry but today FM does **** all....

d) zero risk taking by major labels...look at the recent signings...blizzards, corona's...these are very blue chip signings based on a proven boring snow patrol formula.......

Good Points - ultimately you're saying local bands need to be 'better' ?

stateofflux

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Good Points - ultimately you're saying local bands need to be 'better' ?

hmmm not really...i think even if you are the greatest band in the universe...in dublin without money behind you...you could be playing to 2 people or less forever....

money talks and bull**** walks.....put it this way...i work a litlle bit in pr and i know all publications in ireland and uk tell you this when you inquire about advertising... "when the money hits our bank account we will give you a review --- the quality and size of the review will be proportionate to the amount of money you give us".....this is a fact.

the same goes for radio...as much as i like some irish dj's.....most of thier playlist is dictated by who is paying...e.g. sony have a new bloc party single released....it HAS to be playing x number of times.....even if a dj wanted to repeatedly play an unsigned act (i mean say 5 times a day)....he could'nt....unless they are paying the radio station.....

at the core of things having no money and no loyalty from fans is the reason why bands like the chalets had to split up......not enough people gave a stuff because there is a massive concentration of international acts playing every week to go to instead.......can anyone name an irish band in the last 3 years that built up a fanbase like say the arctic monkeys...and got signed and very successful.??...i can't

el_tiddlero

There's 2 arguments happening here i think..

one seems to relate to the lack of massive international commercial success stories from Irish bands that people like for their music. To be fair - like them or hate them Stateofflux - The Frames are the band you're talking about. They built up a base around the country and then went international - all the way to the oscars in fact.

The other argument is that local bands are being done out by international acts.. I'm not sure how far that is true. For example, my band recently played on the same night as Kings of Leon and several other big acts, however, because we're a different animal, it made no difference to the number of people we got through the door. I think you'll find that most uinsigned bands that run their own gigs make enough at them to be able to afford to run another one and maybe after a while, put together a record.
For most people, that's the extent of their ambition, and rightly so. Of course anyone would love to jet off around the world on tour, but the reality of it is that very, very few acts will ever get to do that.. I for one, would be happy to play a gig every couple of months and put out records when we get the chance. If i do that, then it's a dream fulfilled, regardless of whether success of acclaim comes from it or not.

I think it's unfair to call a scene dead when there's so much productivity and talent out there - ok, it's not all over your radio, it's not on in the big massive venues, and you might have to work a little to find out about it, but guess what, that almost makes it better. It's self-contained and overflowing with cool things to listen to and to go and see. There's plenty of websites/freesheet mags that cover Irish unsigned - there's a good number of radio shows (online and on real radio) that play Irish unsigned music, mp3 hugger does great compilations of unsigned music, nialler9 always has a podcast on the go with irish acts on it - ok it's not mainstream media, but when was the last time you heard ANYTHING, Irish or otherwise, on mainstream radio that you felt was worthwhile??

I don't know, i guess you can bang on about how the "industry" here doesn't support our local acts, but then you see initiatives like Richter Collective getting in there and doing it themselves - that's the way forward, whether you want to support/believe or not is a different story. I'll be listening to my high quality Irish music and getting my live music kicks for a fiver while you guys continue this needless and counterproductive debate.

[/rant]

smackbunnybaby

i used to think the irish scene was dead.

the problem was i was looking in the wrong areas.

i havent found boards.ie to have particularly good threads on irish bands (this is in the amount of time i have been on this board)

in the few years i have been looking at thumped.com* i have learned so much about the irish scene and how much talent is out there.

it has been mentioned that Richter Collective are doing great things. Organised Ideas and Out on a Limb have great bands on their rosters.

I could list loads of bands here, but i think a lot of people are generally a bit lazy when it comes to irish music. it's out there, every night! i dont know what it is, but i think people have this sort of idea that as its a band from a different country it's better than local talent.
Guys, this isnt a League of Ireland versus English Premier League debate we are having where one is clearly better than the other.

Maybe the irish scene is dying....but it's not the bands fault for sure.
it's our fault and the media's fault. it costs something like 50+ or 60+ to see people like Coldplay, Snow Patrol Kings of Leon play. mediocre bands at best.
that money could get you in 5 or 6 irish gigs.

there is so much wrong with the media, record labels and promoters wanting to make a quick buck instead of discovering new bands. as stateofflux already said money talks in this business.

i really dont know where my argument is going, i think it just pains me to see threads like this, when really it shouldnt be the case at all.


* people on boards think thumped is pretentious and vice versa (boards are geeks), but whatever, it is great for finding out about all types of music and bands in ireland. i dont want this thread to descend into a meaningless fight over which board is better. both have their merits

ZakAttak

you see initiatives like Richter Collective getting in there and doing it themselves - that's the way forward,

==> The internet and sites such as myspace, bebo, etc. are a great tool in promoting anyone's band; but they only go so far. After this a band needs a substantial amount of investment to bring them up to the next level (i.e. major international act). Record companies have proven over the last few years that they're here to stay, if they were all doomed I think they would have dissappeared by now.

I was listening to Dara O'Brian the other day and he said that the 'edginess' of Ireland has gone; we don't have the poverty,conflict and distinct culture that used to be of fascination to foreign countries- he maintains this is the reason why its more difficult for Irish comedians to make it now and why comedians of Arabic descent are enjoying much success at the moment.

Irish bands in the past took much influence from our own cultural music, now they mimic what is happening in England- not that this didn't happen in the past, but in the past bands had a certain amount of variety in their catalogue.

People just aren't interested in Ireland anymore; can you imagine the coronas doing a song like 'sunday bloody sunday'? Not that I think U2 are deadly or anything, but the emotions of that song was of fascination to foreign cultures.

_sparkie_

so what do you guys think young bands should do to get going?

PaulBrewer

_sparkie_ wrote: »

so what do you guys think young bands should do to get going?

This might sound like an ole timer chiming in (which it is) but 'Be Good' is a splendid starting point ....
It's a first principle that a lot of bands try to skip.
This means playing ALL the time.

In Ye Olde Days there was a built in Shyte Filter in music which was can a band play together and by that I don't mean everyone landing on the beat together (though I have a preference for that myself) If you couldn't that was it - game over - even supposedly sloppy bands like The Clash rehearsed all the time. Most bands I know of would shyt themselves if they had to play together in a recording studio.

'But' you say '..with recording technology being what it is today even a Bad Band can sound reasonable'

That's true but is someone else's or actually something else's (the computer's) homogenous workaround 'reasonable'.

Also 'Reasonable' ain't worth the DVD it's stored on.

The opposite of that is the equally boring No Fi / Lo Fi approach which also ends up with a certain homogeny.

So, what to do?

If we might reference History and after all, that is the point of history, it's clear that the real bands that are successful have at least one thing in common.

That is they are good NOW.

They enjoy music NOW, whether it's in the rehearsal room and the mates party in the house, touring shyteholes etc.

Whilst there's always an eye on the next rung a lot of bands/artists I interact with are still on the -

Getting Signed,
Getting Big,
Getting Rich,

buzz.

With reference to ye olde days again, that was a virtually impossible dream when the music biz was wedged with money.

And now, you really are a dullard if that's the way you want to live your life because, all evidence suggests, you're doomed to failure.

Enjoy your Music Now, by all means dream, but not at the expense of what you have at present - that may well be as good as it gets.

corkstudent

It's dead in terms of diversity, yes. Ireland in general is a homogenous ****hole these days. If you want to set up a band that's not a particular kind of music like METAL, pub rock or some faux indie outfit, it's going to be bloody tough. The interest just isn't there. Something about the modern Irish mentality is just so apathetic and that's a big cause of this.

Even the bands that are good never make it big, and tend to fade away altogether. There's been no really great bands coming out of Ireland for years now. At least with all the ****e in the UK they still at least have some good acts that get deals.

corkstudent

music has never been more accessible , good bands should prosper with or without a "scene" for them to hang onto. just look at how many crap bands got albums released on the coat tails of the "brit-pop" era.

This attitude is the problem to begin with. Obviously, something is missing that's causing a lack of good bands, so maybe they can't prosper without a "scene". Even the bands you look at from the 80s who complain about how they were the only ones doing anything, chances are most of them had mates doing something similar; there was a scene, it was just very early on, which can be an exciting thing. Moreover there was a creative spark there that isn't there anymore. I don't think in this day and age ands can survive well without a scene, but there are no real scenes anymore either.

Music being more "accessible" is the problem. I hate to say it, but the Internet, Myspace, ruined music. Whereas before record companies might hear something special in some random act like Joy Division, internet popularity is becoming more and more driving force, and internet popularity is the worst kind. People will mindlessly roll in to check out the lastest "Hot" stuff.

Someone said earlier that the music business isn't signing acts that sound like the latest hip act - what are you smoking? How many acts are there out there that are that godawful british faux-indie ****e? There's too much celebration of being "common" in music. I like that the charts here in the UK are more british than american at least, but it's not a huge improvement when you have crap like Scouting for Girls and the Wombats or whatever they call themselves.

The music execs need to move away from grabbing popular acts off myspace or it's only going to get worse. It's much harder to become popular online because in real life, if you keep working at it(which most bands don't which is why they don't get signed), there's a very good chance SOMEONE will find your music funky and sign you. But the internet and new mediums, not just sites like Myspace but the attitude it represents, has made everything more systematic. Bands can't make it on creative drive alone. The people who really really wnat to be in a band and spread their music and have a creative heart are less and less the ones that end up on the radio. It's more down to luck and how much of the current trend you're riding. Of course adding ****loads of people on Myspace is a big boost, but that's a terrible way, high tolerance for repetition should not be something that helps you make it in the business that needs less repetitive drivel.

It's great what Phantom FM does, but I get the feeling they're a bit of a lone soldier. We need to write more and more to radio shows and TV shows complaining they don't showcase enough "out there" music, and convince them there's a market for it.

There is amazing music out there, but you're kidding yourself if you think there's as much as there used to be, even underground, and that it has any real chance of making it en masse.

af_thefragile

I think we all should stop blaming the record labels and radio stations for not giving unsigned bands enough exposure.
Cuz the fact is that we ourselves are too lazy to do anything.
For most bands marketing and publicity means setting up a myspace account and telling your friends about your gigs.
This is not gonna work and the Irish music scene is not gonna get any better until bands themselves start to take the initiative to start marketing themselves and establishing a good scene. Yes it takes money, yes it takes time, effort and most importantly co-operation of unsigned bands to work together to support fellow local acts to grow together in what is, and i say it is a dying music scene.

I love gigs and i'm always looking for good gigs to go to but i rarely go to any local gigs. Why? cuz firstly most of the local bands i know of sound ****e. Its the same old generic crap they keep putting out. There's a serious lack of depth in bands nowdays. I wanna listen to something i can compare to Josh Ritter or Radiohead. But all i find is clones of Oasis, Arctic Monkies and worse. Even if the music is good, which a lot of times if i'm feeling generous i can live with it, then the lyrics sound like they were written by a 12yr old.
Second, if there is a band out there with depth and skill, a band thats apart from the generic ****e, they're too lazy to properly publicise themselves and very few people know about them, hence i don't go to their gigs cuz well, i don't know they exist!

So whats the problem? Bands take a lot for granted these days. Thats the problem! They think they can set up a band and some promoter will find them, he'll get them gigs, he'll put them on the radio, some AnR guy will then pick them up and they can get signed. Thats not gonna happen. We all know most promoters are greedy and well, again ****e. And neither will the radio station give you enough airplay, nor will you find as many gigs. Even if you find gigs, you'll regularly find yourself playing to a crowd of 10 people.

So how can we change this? Hmm, its very hypothetical at this stage but bands need to stop being lazy start working harder. They need to realise they to do much more than setting up a myspace and telling their friends about their gigs to get bigger. Bands need to get together and cooperate to set up the scene themselves. It all needs to work as one big body. From people who go around writing articles for websites to people who DJ on the radio to the bands themselves. Maybe for a start someone could set up a proper professional looking youtube radio channel covering all the latest happenings in the Irish scene. Like MTV but exclusively for the Irish music scene. On maybe youtube where people who're interested in Irish bands can checkout whats happening in the Irish music scene.

Well, thats just an idea. There's a lot more the bands can collectively do.
But then again, with the rise of the internet there is no quality control for bands and their music anymore. This is quite a big problem as you've all mentioned, to get to the good stuff you need to filter through a lot of crap and no one can be bothered to do that!
What we need is someone who can be bothered to do just exactly that. Pick out the good bands with potential and bring them out to the rest of us.
All Ireland needs is a David Bowie or a Radiohead and that'll kick start a good scene!

corkstudent

I think we all should stop blaming the record labels and radio stations for not giving unsigned bands enough exposure.
Cuz the fact is that we ourselves are too lazy to do anything.

The problem is that it's too difficult to know what to do these days, it's too random and poorly defined. It's hard to get noticed.

And where are artists meant to get this money? They're probably already spending on gear which is more important to the actual music... and a lot can't even afford that. Many of the most creative musicians are often also poor musicians. It should be enough just to keep playing venues and distributing your music online, making a bit of noise.

More colloboration would be great but the problem is that everyone is quite unfriendly these days. They need places to meet and that doesn't exist for many alternative acts.

PaulBrewer

corkstudent wrote: »

This attitude is the problem to begin with. Obviously, something is missing that's causing a lack of good bands, so maybe they can't prosper without a "scene". Even the bands you look at from the 80s who complain about how they were the only ones doing anything, chances are most of them had mates doing something similar; there was a scene, it was just very early on, which can be an exciting thing. Moreover there was a creative spark there that isn't there anymore. I don't think in this day and age ands can survive well without a scene, but there are no real scenes anymore either.

That's a very good point.

It's always been the Tribe/Scene thing that has driven interesting music from 50s Rock'n'Roll days onwards.

However any scene is like a flower that blooms, sheds it's seeds and dies, if you'll excuse my poetry. It then needs to be replaced. That Feckin' Singer Songwriter weed is a hardy annual though! :rolleyes:

I disagree that MySpace etc has ruined Music, all the internet does is makes the playground bigger, there are now lots of other guys who will come and take the ball unless you do something about it (excuse poetry part deux)

I know as a Casual Producer who interacts with other engineer/producers both here and in the UK that MySpace is a fabulous place to check out and meet bands.

Check out The Evora www.myspace.com/theevora from Dublin
and The Lost Levels from the UK both of whom we've hooked up with.

The Evora tracks we recorded and The Lost Levels we're about to do a remix for having hooked up with them through hearing them on Tom Robinson's BBC 6Music show 'Introducing' - that could never have happened in the past.

www.myspace.com/thelostlevels

Phantom has been mentioned - RTE's new digital station 2XM also offers possibilities once there is a listenership.


It's only doom and gloom if you head down the wrong road ...

PaulBrewer

corkstudent wrote: »

They need places to meet and that doesn't exist for many alternative acts.

Here! MySpace! get on with it!!

Delirium

Personally I don't think that it is. Almost all the live music I go to is Irish bands/performers. Partly because to see other acts generally requires more expensive tickets and a roadtrip to Dublin.

From my own personal experience, the problem I find at a lot of gigs is a lack of people showing up. I've been to gigs here where the total number of members in the bands playing has outnumbered the audience:eek: And I'm about bands with 4 members max in each band.

I've brought friends to gigs of Irish bands and it was a struggle to do that much. But when a band, with MTV coverage and a much larger fee to see them, performs in Ireland its a completely different story.