Is the irish music scene dead?

neonoranges

Ok.... this is something thats been on my mind. is the irish music scene dead for new bands? I'd written a pretty hefty post and just decided to delete it....... In my eyes the scene for new bands is totally dead..... theres no one there interested in developing new bands....... its great what fight like apes are doing but its sad that there Is only one new irish band doing anyway well for themselves...... I think there is an insane amount of talent in ireland at the moment..... was there ever a good scene for new bands in ireland or is one ever likely to develope?

miju

there was a great scene IMHO about 2-3 years ago with about 4 or 5 very active voluntary organisations / communities involved with promoting bands and tours and setting up various networks for bands to help themselves.

Unfortunately one by one they all fell by the wayside as peoples personal lives took from their time to do it and the Irish scene is where it's at today.

It's still VERY active just nowhere near as coherent as it was IMO

Kenners

There's an Irish Music scene? WHen did this happen?

Xavi6

Personally I think Fight Like Apes are a load of shite and we would be better off having no Irish scene rather than one littered with bands like that. On a par with the Ting Tings in terms of how irritating they are.

Anyway, there hasn't been a really good scene in Ireland since the likes of Wilt and Turn ceased to exist. From around 2002 to 2005 there were some great records released by bands that should have made it, e.g. Melaton. Very little, if anything, excites me about the Irish music these days.

pfishfood

Yes its been on the decline since two years ago unfortunatly. Its heading the way of WCW towards the end (thats pro wrestling). i.e. poorer quality

ShawnRaven

pfishfood wrote: »

Yes its been on the decline since two years ago unfortunatly. Its heading the way of WCW towards the end (thats pro wrestling). i.e. poorer quality

No it's not. WCW was actually getting better towards the end regarding talent, but just didn't have a stage to perform on regarding television time.

The Irish music scene suffers the same thing it's suffered from for several years, lack of exposure. It gets some exposure, but not enough.

Bubs101

He's probably reffering to Thunder, not Nitro.

I'd agree with Xavi. The bands are so bad that having them constantly play UCD is an annoyance more than anything else.Remember one of my freinds took my to Fight Like Apes saying they were really good and I just stood there listening to screeching over some vintage nintendo music .If I heard that Fight Like Apes were playing a free gig in the Student Bar again I'd go to the forum bar

yevveh

There's good elements but an immense lack of publicity and funding don't do it any justice. The guys and gals from Human Music and Primal Jelly Social Club (myspace.com/knockanstockan) put on some great events in McGruders and elsewhere, even did the Knockanstockan festival down in Blessington (I think). ****loads of deadly guys playing at their events - New Secret Weapon, Mescalito, James Guilmartin, etc. It's up to people to find out about these smaller bands and support them, because if there's no support, how are things supposed to grow into a scene?

The Irish post rock scene has gotten a lot better with the birth of Richter Collective / Organised Ideas, Adebisi, Vimanas, Terrordactyl, Bats, Enemies, etc. - but that's just one scene. The hardcore/emo scene doesn't seem to be doing too bad either. But if you're judging on what bands you've read in the papers or what bands get publicity, then of course you're going to be restricted to FLA, Republic of Loose, the Kinetics, yada yada yada. Nothing wrong with those guys but they're not the be all and end all of Irish music.

EDIT: I can't believe I forgot to mention RSAG, Redneck Manifesto, Jape, Jimmy Cake, Dudley Corporation. I was thinking of smaller bands than them (with the exception of Bats and Adebisi).

neonoranges

I think there are alot of good bands in Ireland at the moment..... i've gone to alot of gigs in the last year...... bands seem to rely on there friends to come to gigs (even some bands that get good coverage on radio/magazines)..... promoters don't promote.... i don't think theres any interest in 'underground' music in ireland..... i think you have to come prepackaged with day time radio play and lots of magazine coverage for any one to show a vague interest.... i don't think many irish bands have any real ambition either but maybe i'm wrong...

eoinf

why do we need an irish music scene if all it produces are ****e bands?

director, humanzi , fight like apes , ham poxy ****fest , coronas et al. hardly anything to go ranting and raving about.

music has never been more accessible , good bands should prosper with or without a "scene" for them to hang onto. just look at how many crap bands got albums released on the coat tails of the "brit-pop" era.

As for live gigs i think its better not having a scene, at least the promoters and venues go out searching for decent international bands and bring them to Ireland rather than trying to fill venues with ****ty homegrown bands.

just look at any week in the village/whelans id say a very small percentage are Irish, would you rather some of these nights had Irish bands play to half empty venues?

no thanks

yevveh

eoinf wrote: »

why do we need an irish music scene if all it produces are ****e bands?

director, humanzi , fight like apes , ham poxy ****fest , coronas et al. hardly anything to go ranting and raving about.

music has never been more accessible , good bands should prosper with or without a "scene" for them to hang onto. just look at how many crap bands got albums released on the coat tails of the "brit-pop" era.

As for live gigs i think its better not having a scene, at least the promoters and venues go out searching for decent international bands and bring them to Ireland rather than trying to fill venues with ****ty homegrown bands.

just look at any week in the village/whelans id say a very small percentage are Irish, would you rather some of these nights had Irish bands play to half empty venues?

no thanks

so, you think every band in ireland is godawful. all of those bands you've mentioned are accessible and radio-friendly, thus they get attention. naturally you have to look a bit deeper if you want to find anything that's interesting. how do you expect good bands to prosper if there's no scene for them to hang on to and an attitude that says "if it's Irish, it's ****"?

HouseHippo

think the Irish Music Scene is pretty strong at the moment..talent wise,there are some seriously great bands out there,forget your Coronas and Fight Like Apes,these bands are far better and much lesser known.

However due to certain organisations,many small dublin venues are losing out on gigs,also many young new irish bands are getting rough deals and moving to England etc to further career,which is definitely hampering our music scene.

2-3 years ago when I first discovered and started working on the Irish music scene it was great,lots of new talent coming out of the woodwork etc. There were many festivals and organistaions dedicated to showcasing homegrown talent but now this has deminished greatly as people are more in it for the money than the music.

Take the HWCH festival for example.I have been involved with this the past 3 years. This year many of the sponsers etc revoked their funding leaving it to many independent organisations to take care of it.
Many of the people working at this festival worked hard for weeks with little or no money and or recognition.
If you are gonna complain about the music scene in Ireland you should get out there and support it.Go to see irish bands in smaller irish venues like Whelans ,the Village,Radio City etc.Help to support irish bands,promote them buy their ep's etc.

It's up to us to save the irish music scene,ao instead of complaining about it do something.Music has always been a great part of Irish culture and we need to maintain this!!
Also just wait for 2009,Recessions always bring out the best in musical talent.It'sd gonna be a great year for music and a bad year for our pockets,we just need to put a little money aside to spend on the music scene.

Another thing which is hampering the development of our music scene is the new licencing laws.I myslef have worked freelance in a few Irish venues this year who are all finidng trouble managing due to these laws.Compared to places in London etc who open all day and night etc etc. That is why many high profile irish venue owners and booking agents are moving to the UK and other EU countries. http://giveusthenight.com if you agree.

Also irish broadcasting agents again are all about the money rather than the music.With NoDisco ,Music Cubed and most recently Nightshift all being cancelled and The Last Broadcast having little or no budget compared to other rte shows there is very little room for us to get irish bands out there to the masses.
There was also a day when Phantom played an Irish band once every 3 songs and i don't mean Fight Like Apes,Coronas or The Blizzards.Now you are lucky if you hear any up and coming irish bands every few hours.Many of the irish stations have regulations of how many irish abnds they must play every hour etc,they cheat this by playing band who have recorded in pulse or Grouse Lodge and say this is "irish music" or just play Snow Patrol or u2 or of course the Coronas
Also many people have been saying there aren't any good irish bands out there today what about: Jape,Redneck manifesto,Angel Pier,Dirty Epics, Black Eagle Charm,Anagog,Red Kid,Distractors,Ham Sandwich,Pamela and the Trouble Is,Jimmy Cake,Cap Pas Cap,Kinetics,Aortal etc etc.
And as for good irish music nights you have Human Music and Dublin underground and other great nights in McGrudders and Radio City and often they organise all agers in whelans etc We also ahve a thriving metal subculture in venues such as fibbers and a rockabilly scene in the dice bar and also stomping ground nights which showcase the best in irish rockabilly bands such as spellbound as well as international acts.We only have one or 2 independant irish music magazines,Analouge and connected are great and guess what they are free but not near enough widely produced

miju

HouseHippo wrote: »

Take the HWCH festival for example.I have been involved with this the past 3 years. This year many of the sponsers etc revoked their funding leaving it to many independent organisations to take care of it.

All I'll say on that one is that the sponsors pulling out was not due to a bad Irish music scene. It was to do with certain people thought thinkin they were the dogs proverbials and rightly got slapped back into place

Really don't want to get started on HWCH but it is a great example of why the Irish music scene as gone completely tits up with regards to an actual proper independent industry here.

PaulBrewer

[QUOTE=neonoranges;58393538 theres no one there interested in developing new bands....... [/QUOTE]

That kind of thinking is rife and a large part of the problem.

The BAND develop themselves (or not)!

If a band can't develop at the lowest level, one would think they won't cut it at the next one.

That's one of the good things about the way the business is going. No record company will be signing 25 bands that sound like the 'hip' band anymore.

If you scale the wall into the 'Music Biz' you'll be doing it by yourself ....

Unless you're in X-factor that is, then the Aunties and the cousins will give you a hand

PaulBrewer

miju wrote: »

there was a great scene IMHO about 2-3 years ago with about 4 or 5 very active voluntary organisations / communities involved with promoting bands and tours and setting up various networks for bands to help themselves.

Unfortunately one by one they all fell by the wayside as peoples personal lives took from their time to do it and the Irish scene is where it's at today.

It's still VERY active just nowhere near as coherent as it was IMO

What was that then? Sounds interesting.

PaulBrewer

eoinf wrote: »

music has never been more accessible , good bands should prosper with or without a "scene" for them to hang onto. just look at how many crap bands got albums released on the coat tails of the "brit-pop" era.

Those days are gone forever I wager ...

PaulBrewer

HouseHippo wrote: »

many young new irish bands are getting rough deals and moving to England etc to further career,which is definitely hampering our music scene.

It's up to us to save the irish music scene,ao instead of complaining about it do something.Music has always been a great part of Irish culture and we need to maintain this!!

Good Points.

insinkerator

^ you know, due to a lot of demand a while back, vBulletin released a new version fo their software with an added feature called the multi-quote button. It can be found between the regular quote button and the fast reply button. Simply click the multi-quote button on all the posts you wish to quote and then click the standard quote button. Boom! multiple quotes on one page. I'm not implying anything.... just saying is all

On topic: The main problems with the irish music scene at the moment are

Lack of initiative. I think this is on both sides of the stick Like pretty much anything to do with the irish public, if we arent spoonfed, it isnt gonna happen. Many people dont have the drive anymore to get up and go to a local gig. And on the other hand, these so called promoters, dont seem to be doing much to earn their title. I think organiser would be a more suitable title (FYI, a sole blog on bebo does not count as promotion)

Quantity over quality. There really is a huge amount of bands floating around these days, and it is godawfully difficult trying to sift through the crap to find anything worth-while. Another component of this problem is, many young people seem to have this conception that liking a band that no one has heard of, and name-dropping it in conversation makes them cool. Whatever if the band was good, but more often than not, this results in a whole pile of undeserved and unnecessary hype about an at best, stunningly average band

PaulBrewer

insinkerator wrote: »

^ you know, due to a lot of demand a while back, vBulletin released a new version fo their software with an added feature called the multi-quote button. It can be found between the regular quote button and the fast reply button. Simply click the multi-quote button on all the posts you wish to quote and then click the standard quote button. Boom! multiple quotes on one page. I'm not implying anything.... just saying is all

Thanks, I didn't know that - every day's a school day around here. I was just answering as I read the posts.


With regard to your other points -

I think what you're describing is right - how ever it's also as it ever was. There's only a few who have the get up and go to do anything, this is true for all walks of life, not just music.

Some bands have a drive that doesn't exist in your 'average' band.

I've been lucky enough to work with and be in the company of, people who are successful in the music business. Their is a common trait ( an X factor?) that they seem to share, a drive that us mere mortals don't have.

miju

PaulBrewer wrote: »

What was that then? Sounds interesting.

talking about the likes of:

Music Network - not sure what happened
CPU.ie - no ones publicly sure what happened
Gigsmart - still going but effectively dead and suffering death by 1,000 cuts. though they've some thing starting again with the TBMC apparently
Goldenplec - just a music magazine / community these days (though apparently have aspirations or returning to what they used to do)
Thumped - various things still spring from this from time to time
Cluas - pulled it's horns back in and went back to being a music magazine only (what it always done best TBH)
Musicians.org - domain was bought by IMA and the guys who used to run tours / gigs etc just disapeared
Irish Unsigned - still being run but owner was "disenfranchised" shall we say from partaking in further endevours to promote the scene

There were literally another 30 or so similiar to the above but above where really the main front runners in organising various things around Dublin and nationwide with tours , TV , radio , general gigs and providing various resources and advice.

PaulBrewer

miju wrote: »

talking about the likes of:

Music Network - not sure what happened
CPU.ie - no ones publicly sure what happened
Gigsmart - still going but effectively dead and suffering death by 1,000 cuts. though they've some thing starting again with the TBMC apparently
Goldenplec - just a music magazine / community these days (though apparently have aspirations or returning to what they used to do)
Thumped - various things still spring from this from time to time
Cluas - pulled it's horns back in and went back to being a music magazine only (what it always done best TBH)
Musicians.org - domain was bought by IMA and the guys who used to run tours / gigs etc just disapeared
Irish Unsigned - still being run but owner was "disenfranchised" shall we say from partaking in further endevours to promote the scene

There were literally another 30 or so similiar to the above but above where really the main front runners in organising various things around Dublin and nationwide with tours , TV , radio , general gigs and providing various resources and advice.

I've heard of some of those, why do you think they've failed or perhaps a better word is stopped overall? Is it a case of the mountain is too high to climb?

miju

well from being actively involved in one of them and knowing the guys behind most of the rest the main reason for alot of them was personal lives / other commitments took over.

SimonMaher

HouseHippo wrote: »

There was also a day when Phantom played an Irish band once every 3 songs and i don't mean Fight Like Apes,Coronas or The Blizzards.Now you are lucky if you hear any up and coming irish bands every few hours.Many of the irish stations have regulations of how many irish abnds they must play every hour etc,

....Also many people have been saying there aren't any good irish bands out there today what about: Jape,Redneck manifesto,Angel Pier,Dirty Epics, Black Eagle Charm,Anagog,Red Kid,Distractors,Ham Sandwich,Pamela and the Trouble Is,Jimmy Cake,Cap Pas Cap,Kinetics,Aortal etc

..

Interesting debate this and its cyclical too. Im an old git, and I remember having this debate about the irish music scene being apparently dead in McGongagles in 1989.

Anyway, for clarification on the Phantom bit. Househippo seems to be saying that we play a lot less up and coming acts than we used to and then later in the post lists a whole stack of bands that we have in fact put on daytime rotation. Examples: Jape, Red Kid, Distractors, Ham Sandwich, Kinetics (just to pull some from the list above). Throw in Dirty Epics, Saville, The Flaws, Ann Scott, PonyClub, Chakras, Cowboy X, Autamata, Crayonsmith from recent daytime playlists. This is in addition to the more well known Irish bands like Fight Like Apes, Director, Republic of Loose etc.

Then theres I-Con, every Wednesday night from 10-12 midnight, our new Irish music showcase. Tracks played on Icon regularly move on to the daytime playlist.

If music is good, it will get played on Phantom, simple as that. When music is getting chosen for daytime radio-play on commercial radio it is usually judged on two grounds. First is its quality/listenability and the second is its familiarity. In the case of new Irish music (or indeed any music), Radio stations are unwilling for commercial reasons to take risks on non-famililar tracks and artists. Thats just the way it is. Stations like Phantom are in a position to offer daytime airplay to acts that dont meet the familiarity requirement but it still has to be good!

Theres a section on phantom.ie dealing with submitting music for possible airplay. If youre releasing stuff, read it and then send it in.

Thats just my view with the Radio hat on. Carry on!

Simon Maher
Phantom 105.2

studiorat

There is no Irish Music Business. Anyone who say's so will be sleepin with the fishes!!!

It's always been small, the average musician earns €10,000 a year. I don't think it's ever been particularly more or less successful over the years.

PaulBrewer

Simon Maher wrote: »

Interesting debate this and its cyclical too. Im an old git, and I remember having this debate about the irish music scene being apparently dead in McGongagles in 1989.

Anyway, for clarification on the Phantom bit. Househippo seems to be saying that we play a lot less up and coming acts than we used to and then later in the post lists a whole stack of bands that we have in fact put on daytime rotation. Examples: Jape, Red Kid, Distractors, Ham Sandwich, Kinetics (just to pull some from the list above). Throw in Dirty Epics, Saville, The Flaws, Ann Scott, PonyClub, Chakras, Cowboy X, Autamata, Crayonsmith from recent daytime playlists. This is in addition to the more well known Irish bands like Fight Like Apes, Director, Republic of Loose etc.

Then theres I-Con, every Wednesday night from 10-12 midnight, our new Irish music showcase. Tracks played on Icon regularly move on to the daytime playlist.

If music is good, it will get played on Phantom, simple as that. When music is getting chosen for daytime radio-play on commercial radio it is usually judged on two grounds. First is its quality/listenability and the second is its familiarity. In the case of new Irish music (or indeed any music), Radio stations are unwilling for commercial reasons to take risks on non-famililar tracks and artists. Thats just the way it is. Stations like Phantom are in a position to offer daytime airplay to acts that dont meet the familiarity requirement but it still has to be good!

Theres a section on phantom.ie dealing with submitting music for possible airplay. If youre releasing stuff, read it and then send it in.

Thats just my view with the Radio hat on. Carry on!

Simon Maher
Phantom 105.2

Good Post Simon !

To go slightly off topic ( I hope the OP won't mind) one perennial question we have on the Music Prod Forum is that are a lot of recordings a high enough
quality from daytime's radio perspective?

Are you the man to answer that I wonder, at least give an insider's view?

Simon Maher wrote: »

Interesting debate this and its cyclical too. Im an old git, and I remember having this debate about the irish music scene being apparently dead in McGongagles in 1989.

That was probably a 'golden age' of local rock. I remember Feile 1990 and as I recall every band on the main stage was Irish. It was very exciting...

el_tiddlero

indeed the Irish music scene is not dead - OP is just lazy.
there's many sites/blogs dedicated to telling you all about the latest Irish releases + shows - all you have to do is get off your hole and go see something that you like the sound of.
myspace and last.fm are your friends.
also, see the top 5 indie bands in ireland thread for many, many names of good bands (so long as you don't mind digging through the filth that is.)

a new question, "Are untimely predictions of the death of the Irish music scence dead??"

Yes.

homerun_homer

In my mind it's with O'Leary in the grave.

Fight Like Apes are non sense. The bands I like that are going now are not making any inroads abroad and so it's a shame to see them just hanging around Ireland. at that I wouldn't call it a scene since they haven't similar musical styles.
The Dublin rock scene for me consists of Humanzi, the Things and Brothers Movement etc and others like Mighty Stef but that is a pure Dublin thing. NME Ireland tried to big up Humanzi to the Irish and not the brits and at that they got a roasting as they only sold 500 albums.

el_tiddlero

homerun_homer wrote: »

In my mind it's with O'Leary in the grave.

Fight Like Apes are non sense. The bands I like that are going now are not making any inroads abroad and so it's a shame to see them just hanging around Ireland. at that I wouldn't call it a scene since they haven't similar musical styles.
The Dublin rock scene for me consists of Humanzi, the Things and Brothers Movement etc and others like Mighty Stef but that is a pure Dublin thing. NME Ireland tried to big up Humanzi to the Irish and not the brits and at that they got a roasting as they only sold 500 albums.

I don't think you can call a local scene dead because the bands aren't getting exposure overseas - the idea of a local scene is that it's LOCAL, i.e. the bands do well where they're from. Obviously any band would love to be big elsewhere, but that takes time and money - time they have plenty of, but money is hard to come by if everyone sits at home bitchin' on the internet about how there's no good bands here, rather than biting the bullet, spending a fiver at the door and taking a look for themselves..

If you think the Dublin rock scene consists of those you mentioned then you too are not looking hard enough, see Yevveh's post about Adebisi Shank, BATS, and numerous others. Those bands charge between 5-10 bucks for their live shows and what you see is way better than the overpriced, overrated UK/US imports that the big promoters push.. I dare anyone to go to 10 gigs of Irish bands they don't know and come back telling me that they didn't see one thing they were into..

Learning by discovery people, it's all the rage these days.

neonoranges

el tiddero.... you missed my point.... music being created in ireland at the moment is great.... but compare how UK bands are pushed to develope as compared with Irish bands.... the BBC has this big 'introducing' initiative going on in all regions of the UK where new bands get active exposure on the radio and live

PaulBrewer.... i realise that a band is 100% responsible for its own 'success'... but its about working as hard as you can and then taking your breaks.... there just doesn't seem to be to many breaks in ireland...

HardWorkingCH.... is a great idea. The line up as a whole this year was great. I thought there were a few bands that didn't get on the line up that worked harder and had more talent than some bands played.... but i guess that happens... some times these things come down to who you know.... i'm not sure how much bands benefit from it but its still big for a new band in ireland...

PaulBrewer

neonoranges wrote: »

el tiddero.... you missed my point.... music being created in ireland at the moment is great.... but compare how UK bands are pushed to develope as compared with Irish bands.... the BBC has this big 'introducing' initiative going on in all regions of the UK where new bands get active exposure on the radio and live

PaulBrewer.... i realise that a band is 100% responsible for its own 'success'... but its about working as hard as you can and then taking your breaks.... there just doesn't seem to be to many breaks in ireland...

HardWorkingCH.... is a great idea. The line up as a whole this year was great. I thought there were a few bands that didn't get on the line up that worked harder and had more talent than some bands played.... but i guess that happens... some times these things come down to who you know.... i'm not sure how much bands benefit from it but its still big for a new band in ireland...

Good Points NeonOranges. There never was and probably will be significant opportunities here as Ireland is so small.

If you take a four piece band and a manager that's 5 wages to be knocked out before anything happens.

Taking it that their income from records will probably be nonexistent unless they do a 'The Squipt' on it their only income is live.

So to knock even €25k each a year out of it would be a major achievement locally allowing for the expense of gigging too.

The upside is that as music promotion is now more Netcentric one could argue that there are more international opportunities than ever (not implying there are many!)

Tom Robinson on BBC 6music's 'Introducing' program does a great job of doing just that and they're surprisingly listenable programs.

Don't the Beeb, or one of the UK stations sponsor a Baby Band tour too something similar to that NME tour?

I love BBC 6Music radio and am a supporter of Rte's 2XM which is essentially a state sponsored Pirate (at the moment anyway -if they'll excuse me saying so) - they've no significant budget yet but I was thinking it could be an ideal vehicle for a New Band Show ..... lets see what happens.

However all these ideas can only work if there's a supply of New Bands to support them ..... which takes us back to my original point.

SimonMaher

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Good Post Simon !

To go slightly off topic ( I hope the OP won't mind) one perennial question we have on the Music Prod Forum is that are a lot of recordings a high enough
quality from daytime's radio perspective?

Are you the man to answer that I wonder, at least give an insider's view?

Hi Paul,

The quick answer is no! We would get dozens of demos/unsigned releases in on a weekly basis to Phantom. The ones that are 96k mp3 burned on to a CD with nothing written on it go in the bin first and then the sorting starts.

Its a real shame when something that is a good song is ruined by dreadful production or mixing or the final mastered version sounds horrible. We have no problem as I mentioned above slotting new acts in between million sellers but they have to sound sonically good.

Radio output is quite heavily processed and compressed anyway, so from a recording point of view, nice simple production is best. Master it, stick it through a broadcast plugin and see how it sounds. If it sounds good, send it in and if it doesnt, start again!

Cheers,
Simon