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M6/4 Motorway Galway to Dublin (for discussing completed sections)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,564 ✭✭✭✭ flazio


    Some visual evidence.
    With Rumble strips. http://goo.gl/maps/7eJXz
    Without Rumble strips http://goo.gl/maps/WEZMm
    You can actually see where they stop in that second picture.
    They are however, still present at junctions. http://goo.gl/maps/xbfEP


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,299 ✭✭✭ serfboard


    From the Independent:
    Losses on the M6 motorway between Ballinasloe and Galway are mounting, and the company that operates the road wants more tolling points to be introduced.
    This would capture drivers who enter and exit the motorway at different points to avoid paying the €1.90 charge.
    The article goes on to day that the Minister and the NRA have ruled it out.
    These changes are needed to "save" the project, sources said, because traffic volumes are running at just 9,500 a day – 6,000 vehicles fewer than expected when the deal was signed ...

    "This level of loss is unsustainable," a source close to the project said. "If this situation is allowed to continue, the M6 PPP could default on its commercial loans with Irish and international banks and with the European Investment Bank in the near future."
    Apparently of the 9 tolled roads in Ireland, 4 are loss-making - the M6, N25, M3 and Limerick Tunnel - but the latter two are covered by an agreement that the government will make up the deficit. The same doesn't apply here.
    N6 Concession has been ordered by its banks to conduct an urgent study into future traffic volumes – and to consider if additional tolling points could be introduced.
    I have to say I always thought it was odd that the PPP gave away so much for free. I wondered why you could drive to Loughrea without paying a toll - before it was built I thought that the furthest you would get would be Athenry. Well, now it seems the PPPs banks too are trying to reverse that decision.

    According to the article "The operators now want to introduce a series of tolling points along the entire stretch". I can't see that happening. What I could see happening would be toll points at the Loughrea exits though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,106 antoobrien


    serfboard wrote: »
    According to the article "The operators now want to introduce a series of tolling points along the entire stretch". I can't see that happening. What I could see happening would be toll points at the Loughrea exits though.

    This is the same thing as the Kilcock - Kinnegad stretch of the M4, the difference being that there 1 exit on that stretch at Enfield where the eastbound exit and westbound entrance are tolled.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,299 ✭✭✭ serfboard


    antoobrien wrote: »
    This is the same thing as the Kilcock - Kinnegad stretch of the M4, the difference being that there 1 exit on that stretch at Enfield where the eastbound exit and westbound entrance are tolled.
    Yeah, and I could see exactly the same thing happening at Loughrea - eastbound exit and Westbound entrance being tolled. It's the most obvious, cheapest and probably politically most acceptable solution.

    I don't think it will make up the shortfall though.

    Tolls at the Athenry exit might in theory do it, but the public would blow a gasket, toll-dodging would be massive and we'd be back to tailbacks at Derrydonnell again. :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,106 antoobrien


    serfboard wrote: »
    Yeah, and I could see exactly the same thing happening at Loughrea - eastbound exit and Westbound entrance being tolled. It's the most obvious, cheapest and probably politically most acceptable solution.

    I don't think it will make up the shortfall though.

    Tolls at the Athenry exit might in theory do it, but the public would blow a gasket, toll-dodging would be massive and we'd be back to tailbacks at Derrydonnell again. :rolleyes:

    Reading the article one thing surprised me: they had predicted usage of 15,500 vehicles per day, which was 50% higher than the peak recorded usage at the time the contract was being signed. Considering growth was in single figures, the NRA got a good deal out of this one.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,253 ✭✭✭ DaCor


    Worst I can see happening is the group goes into receivership and exits it paying 60 cents on the euro, in line with current income.

    Their mention of default is purely to link it to Ireland, as in Ireland has defaulted on something, in the eyes of the media.

    As mentioned in other posts, we've signed contracts where we carry the loss, IMHO its tough luck that they now have to carry the loss.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,110 KevR


    The delay in building the M17/18 isn't helping the M6 operators. The M17/18 will feed extra Dublin-bound traffic from the West of Ireland onto the M6 toll section.


  • Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭ guylikeme


    Junction 13 to 14 West closed today. That's over 20km. Assuming the whole thing ain't being redone, what warrants a full closure


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 31,122 Mod ✭✭✭✭ dolanbaker


    guylikeme wrote: »
    Junction 13 to 14 West closed today. That's over 20km. Assuming the whole thing ain't being redone, what warrants a full closure
    The closure is only for a couple of days, apparently to repair a section of carriageway that has subsided.


  • Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭ guylikeme


    dolanbaker wrote: »
    The closure is only for a couple of days, apparently to repair a section of carriageway that has subsided.

    7 years on from opening. "Shoddy shoddy workmanship Ted"!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,781 ✭✭✭ Carawaystick


    So the privates sector took on the risk, and now are crying about loosing money? My heart bleeds. The concession should go bust and someone new will take it on. Same as when Eircom went bust ( and no one noticed)


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,590 ✭✭✭ Marcusm


    So the privates sector took on the risk, and now are crying about loosing money? My heart bleeds. The concession should go bust and someone new will take it on. Same as when Eircom went bust ( and no one noticed)

    The concession certainly shouldn't go bust, no point in it falling back into the public sector now. If it is poor construction then recourse should be had to the construction company or to the structural engineer who recommended acceptance as properly built. If they only took a 6 year warranty on a 30 or not year construction then they are idiots. The fault will have been identified some time ago so is suspect it's coming from a construction bond or PII claim if it is truly poor constructionZ


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,602 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    So the privates sector took on the risk, and now are crying about loosing money? My heart bleeds. The concession should go bust and someone new will take it on. Same as when Eircom went bust ( and no one noticed)

    3 years ago!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,898 ✭✭✭ Chris_5339762


    So the privates sector took on the risk, and now are crying about loosing money? My heart bleeds. The concession should go bust and someone new will take it on. Same as when Eircom went bust ( and no one noticed)

    13 - 14 is publicly owned, its not part of the M6 concession bit (which is 14 - 20).


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 31,122 Mod ✭✭✭✭ dolanbaker


    dolanbaker wrote: »
    The closure is only for a couple of days, apparently to repair a section of carriageway that has subsided.
    OK it was reopened this morning so only closed for one day in the end, must have only been a fairly minor issue.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 31,122 Mod ✭✭✭✭ dolanbaker


    .... and closing again tomorrow for one day.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,590 ✭✭✭ Marcusm


    dolanbaker wrote: »
    .... and closing again tomorrow for one day.

    Am at Athlone, is it definitely open?


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 31,122 Mod ✭✭✭✭ dolanbaker


    Marcusm wrote: »
    Am at Athlone, is it definitely open?
    Yes, I was around J13 an hour ago.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,053 ✭✭✭ veryangryman


    Just noticed that all roads around Kilcock towards the M4, its R148 bypass etc are all labelled R148. Is this not a mistake? The road officially goes through the town and out towards Maynooth


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21


    http://www.westmeathexaminer.ie/news/roundup/articles/2018/04/20/4155052-troy-critical-over-unfair-m4-tolls/

    I wonder what party was in charge when this road was built and opened?

    Conveniently forgets to mention that the M3 toll (not M2 as said in the article) is 1.40 because there's a second toll 20km up the road.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,053 ✭✭✭ veryangryman




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,898 ✭✭✭ Chris_5339762


    Good lord
    “These rates are completely out of sync with all other roads,” continued Deputy Troy.

    “We only have to look at the M6 in Ballinsloe where motorists are charged €1.90.

    “Users of the M2 fare even better only having to pay €1.40 per trip.

    1) The M2 does not have a toll
    2) The M50 toll is roughly the same as the M4 at Enfield.
    3) The Port Tunnel


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,053 ✭✭✭ veryangryman


    The man is a hick.

    That said you (could) argue that he is only referring to commuter roads to Dublin that are outside city limits. The M2 reference does confirm his status as a hick though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,095 ✭✭✭ roadmaster


    In Fairness he is a local rep representing his voters. This is becoming a bit of an issue with tradesmen in particular due to it costing them over 170 a month on tolls because they are driving vans. Any sites i do be on in Dublin that is all the lads are giving out about is the cost of the tolls.

    Personally i have no problem with tolls because the roads have to be paid for and maintained simple as.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21


    roadmaster wrote: »
    In Fairness he is a local rep representing his voters. This is becoming a bit of an issue with tradesmen in particular due to it costing them over 170 a month on tolls because they are driving vans. Any sites i do be on in Dublin that is all the lads are giving out about is the cost of the tolls.

    Personally i have no problem with tolls because the roads have to be paid for and maintained simple as.
    It's true, it is excessive for regular users being the highest toll in the country (besides the Westlink which is 2.10 if you're a regular with a tag, and just above the M3 (entire stretch) at €2.80)

    But his party were in Government when that road was built and opened - if it's an issue now why wasn't it an issue when his party implemented it in the first place?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,095 ✭✭✭ roadmaster


    marno21 wrote: »
    It's true, it is excessive for regular users being the highest toll in the country (besides the Westlink which is 2.10 if you're a regular with a tag, and just above the M3 (entire stretch) at €2.80)

    But his party were in Government when that road was built and opened - if it's an issue now why wasn't it an issue when his party implemented it in the first place?

    That was 15 years ago he was probably doing the junior cert when it was being built so he claim distance from it. Politicians flip and flop they can talk away anything from the past all that matters is saying the right thing so they get reelected. On a personal note that article from rte made me feel really old as i worked on that job for a couple years


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,602 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    He was a council candidate who got elected in 2004, can't claim much distance


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,299 ✭✭✭ serfboard


    Instead of ranting to the local paper trying to drum up some publicity for himself, he could always ask his party leader, who was in government at the time.


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