Dell and Gov response

silverharp

Do politicians look stupid when they go through these dog and pony shows. Does anyone have the slightest belief that Dell will make/change billion dollar decisions based on some blarney from an Irish minister. I gather "they" even want biffo to make an appearance. Wtf is the IDA for?


Dell jobs in Limerick are under threat
Monday, 22 December 2008 15:24
Thousands of jobs at Dell's facility in Limerick could be under threat, despite a Government bid to save them.

It has been confirmed that both the Tánaiste and the Minister for Defence met senior Dell executives at the computer giant's headquarters in Texas last Monday in a bid to save 2,000 jobs at the company's Limerick factory.

The jobs are under threat by a multi-billion dollar review of Dell's worldwide operations.

The company told Tánaiste Mary Coughlan and Defence Minister Willie O'Dea that with falling demand, cost cuts would be going ahead.

In a statement last night, the Tanaiste said they were told Dell is 'continuing its internal consideration of exactly what its new strategy means for its operations in Limerick.'

The company has undertaken to 'communicate the details both to staff and to the Government as soon as it is in a position to do so', she added.

The Tánaiste and the Minister say they 'communicated to Mr Michael Dell the significant benefits that the Limerick operation brings to the company, the city and the region.'

They said the Government would provide whatever assistance they could to Dell with a view to retaining a significant Dell presence in Limerick.

For its part. the company expressed its wish to continue to work with the IDA and the Government and agreed to revert to the Tánaiste as soon as it had finalised its detailed plans for the Limerick operations.

mike65

But sure isn't Michael Dell Orish?

buynow

It definitely looks a little strange, but they get more out of it by doing it.

They get to say they did something about and free junket!

Mr.Micro

Biffo and Co. can bail out Dell as well. As if Dell are going to listen to the financial incompetents of this Government with regard to financial acumen.

El Stuntman

in the words of the Boss:

'foreman says these jobs are going boys
and they ain't coming back'

Limerick needs to look to the next source of employment and revenue. Hopefully next time, it's long-term sustainable (i.e. domestic)

on the bright side, maybe the Moustache will get voted out in the next GE.

Darsad

Jasus could we not have sent any one other than Coughlan and Odea
what must Michael Dell have thought of this duet !

Mr.Micro

Darsad wrote: »

Jasus could we not have sent any one other than Coughlan and Odea
what must Michael Dell have thought of this duet !

She was probably asleep and I doubt if Dell understood a word from O'Dea.

eamon234

Dell had a meeting with staff yesterday and are very unhappy with O' Dea blabbing about 2000 jobs going they said they haven't decided yet and he had no right to say that. Even so I can't see any good outcome here....

Darragh29

Darsad wrote: »

Jasus could we not have sent any one other than Coughlan and Odea
what must Michael Dell have thought of this duet !

Biffo may as well have sent over Podge & Rodge as these two idiots.

Nodin

About the best they can hope for is a phased closure. They'll go east spend a few years there, and then its China or India. Chasing the cheap labour and favours, presumably.

The Mighty Ken

Nodin wrote: »

About the best they can hope for is a phased closure. They'll go east spend a few years there, and then its China or India. Chasing the cheap labour and favours, presumably.

That's business. If you're reliant on a multi-national in order to make a living then you're house is made of cards in many ways.

sdanseo

Pfft, the government sent Mary Coughlan, Willie O'Dea and a begging letter. Not exactly the way to impress eh?

Useless government strikes again.

Nodin

The Mighty Ken wrote: »

That's business. If you're reliant on a multi-national in order to make a living then you're house is made of cards in many ways.

Yep. It's a ticking clock from day one. 10-20 years down the line, odds are the Polish will be seeing the same thing going on. Harsh though, all the same.

Cantab.

So when is the striking gonna start?

^These boys know how to hold the owners to ransom... A whole week of power cuts!

mikemac

sdonn_1 wrote: »

Pfft, the government sent Mary Coughlan, Willie O'Dea and a begging letter. Not exactly the way to impress eh?

You could have sent the finest executives Enterprise Ireland has and it wouldn't have made a difference.

Useless government strikes again.

Cantab. wrote: »

So when is the striking gonna start?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ksk7EhLNYGU

^These boys know how to hold the owners to ransom... A whole week of power cuts!

fyp
I haven't even watched but I remember that first slide from Reeling in the Years, now there was a bitter and pointless strike

Why would Dell workers strike? Dare I say not all the jobs are highly skilled and there are plently of unemployed people in Limerick who happily cross a picket line to work for a few months

Cantab.

Cantab. wrote:

So when is the striking gonna start?

^These boys know how to hold the owners to ransom... A whole week of power cuts!

mikemac wrote: »

fyp
not all the jobs are highly skilled and there are plently of unemployed people in Limerick who happily cross a picket line to work for a few months

You reckon?! FAS had to pay for shuttle buses to get the lazy ***** who refused to work out to Dell when they first arrived.

Jonny arrives at dole office
Says to clerk I've no job and need money
Clerk says: no problem, there's a bus outside that's leaving in 20 minutes that'll give you a job in Dell
Jonny gets on bus and never looks back

And besides. I doubt the hard shaw inhabitants of Moyross have any inclination to down their knives and get a job in the local butchers any time soon.

sdanseo

mikemac wrote: »

fyp
I haven't even watched but I remember that first slide from Reeling in the Years, now there was a bitter and pointless strike

Why would Dell workers strike? Dare I say not all the jobs are highly skilled and there are plently of unemployed people in Limerick who happily cross a picket line to work for a few months

To clarify...when I said strikes again I didn't mean in the "not working" sense. I meant it in the literal sense.

mikemac

sdonn_1 wrote: »

To clarify...when I said strikes again I didn't mean in the "not working" sense. I meant it in the literal sense.

Oops

juuge

sdonn_1 wrote: »

Pfft, the government sent Mary Coughlan, Willie O'Dea and a begging letter. Not exactly the way to impress eh?

QUOTE] They should have sent Jackie Hely Rae and an interpreter just to prove how backward we still are in Ireland!

Liam Byrne

Laughable! They don't bother to intervene when a company in which they are shareholders pulls out of Shannon, but they expect other companies over which they have no influence to change their plans to do something similar!!!!

Kettle, pot!! (or should that be self-serving, two-faced gob****es...)

Darragh29

mikemac wrote: »

fyp
I haven't even watched but I remember that first slide from Reeling in the Years, now there was a bitter and pointless strike

Why would Dell workers strike? Dare I say not all the jobs are highly skilled and there are plently of unemployed people in Limerick who happily cross a picket line to work for a few months

This talk of Dell letting go 2,000 people is really showing up our "partnership" model for what it really is.

P. Breathnach

Darragh29 wrote: »

This talk of Dell letting go 2,000 people is really showing up our "partnership" model for what it really is.

One might equally conclude that it shows up what big business in a free market is like.

Or you might conclude that it shows what the nature of recession is -- even a recession precipitated by the capitalists in banking systems.

Dell is having difficulties world-wide, even in economies that do not have a partnership approach.

You consistently pick on one thing that you don't like, and blame that for everything that is going wrong.

Dob74

I feel sorry for the government being caught blind sided by a Muilti-National, that is going to move because it is more profitable to do so. Its an economic phenomenon know as "WHAT THE FCUK DID YOU THINK WAS GOING TO HAPPEN" as soon as they saw more profits elsewhere.

silverharp

Dob74 wrote: »

I feel sorry for the government being caught blind sided by a Muilti-National, that is going to move because it is more profitable to do so. Its an economic phenomenon know as "WHAT THE FCUK DID YOU THINK WAS GOING TO HAPPEN" as soon as they saw more profits elsewhere.

They shouldnt be blind sided though , the IDA should have years of experience with dealing with companies like fruit of the loom etc. surely they have metrics where they can work out what particular industry sectors are likey to do.
It only goes to show that the gov/civil service are just a bunch of pro cyclical trend followers, I have seen no evidence that they saw any of this coming

sovtek

Didn't Dell get a "loan" to the tune of several million yo yos when they came into Ireland? Thanks for the wasted money to the taxpayers expense IDA.
It's time to learn from the Latin Americans.
"Thank you very much Michael for the factory and have a safe trip back to Round Rock."

Darragh29

You won't hear a mention of the "strike" word in Dell, their employees are far too institutionalised for that, and they'd all be terrified now of their redundancy being kicked down to statutory minimum now if they tried to even hold a group discussion on their future.

This is the next layer of of our economic house of cards to fall, the departure of thousands of "high tech, high skill and stable", jobs will be exposed now as in fact being, "low skill, low tech, assembly line, exportable-at-the-drop-of-a-hat-jobs"...

I've had the experience of working for a MNC in Ireland and my experience with the one I worked for, (and from what I hear, Dell isn't much different), was that it was a cult like organisation full of completely institutionalised workers, many of whom wouldn't get a job anywhere else...

Good riddance I say...

billy the squid

Too many companies, and indeed the whole city, put their eggs all in one basket with Dell.

As for worker unity to form a strike, it doesn't exist. Dell introduced reward schemes for people to come up with ways of saving the company money a few years ago.

The end result is that the guy sitting beside you would stab you in the back to save the company money and get the reward.

mike65

White knight coming over the hill?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/highlevel-talks-held--to-secure-dell-jobs-1588564.html

Danuogma

Darragh29 wrote: »

You won't hear a mention of the "strike" word in Dell, their employees are far too institutionalised for that, and they'd all be terrified now of their redundancy being kicked down to statutory minimum now if they tried to even hold a group discussion on their future.

This is the next layer of of our economic house of cards to fall, the departure of thousands of "high tech, high skill and stable", jobs will be exposed now as in fact being, "low skill, low tech, assembly line, exportable-at-the-drop-of-a-hat-jobs"...

I've had the experience of working for a MNC in Ireland and my experience with the one I worked for, (and from what I hear, Dell isn't much different), was that it was a cult like organisation full of completely institutionalised workers, many of whom wouldn't get a job anywhere else...

Good riddance I say...

Very succinct summary. I wonder when all the other "high tech" workers in this country will realise that they are just as as expendable?. The more I look at the make up of our topsey turvey false economy the more I realise just how terminally f*cked it is. What have we got left?

Farming - We have no control over agricultural policy anymore, we do what the EU tells us to do.

Fishing - We gave away our fishing rights .

Natural resources- We give them away to multinational corporations for peanuts .

Homegrown Industry - practically non-existent .

Shoddy houses- who would be stupid enough to buy one now?.

British chain stores- many will F off soon enough.

The "service" sector- (call centers and the like) on their way to India.

sovtek

billy the squid wrote: »

The end result is that the guy sitting beside you would stab you in the back to save the company money and get the reward.

In all likelyhood that person will be out on their arse not so long after they sold everyone else out. Solidarity might start to look a little more appealing then.

Big_Mac

sovtek wrote: »

In all likelyhood that person will be out on their arse not so long after they sold everyone else out. Solidarity might start to look a little more appealing then.

Maybe, but it would be too late as they would already be on their arse. Hindsight is a wonderful thing

sovtek

Big_Mac wrote: »

Maybe, but it would be too late as they would already be on their arse. Hindsight is a wonderful thing

It's also a great warning to people who would sell out their collegues.

CtrlSource

Why was Willie O'Dea sent? Should it not have been Micheal Martin? Obviously Mary Coughlan had to go since she's the Minister for Enterprise, but why oh why send Willie...

(answer: because he's from Limerick :rolleyes:)

Schuhart

mike65 wrote: »

White knight coming over the hill?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/highlevel-talks-held--to-secure-dell-jobs-1588564.html

Feck, I hope not. This 'businessman's' initiative seems to amount to getting the Government to subsidise the Dell plant. That's simply not a solution.

jmayo

Darragh29 wrote: »

This talk of Dell letting go 2,000 people is really showing up our "partnership" model for what it really is.

Partnership only ever looked after public sector and a few ex-public sector companeis i.e. Eircom, Aer Lingus.

Dob74 wrote: »

I feel sorry for the government being caught blind sided by a Muilti-National, that is going to move because it is more profitable to do so. Its an economic phenomenon know as "WHAT THE FCUK DID YOU THINK WAS GOING TO HAPPEN" as soon as they saw more profits elsewhere.

The writing has been on the wall for this for a number of years.
Dell will always go where it is cheapest to do business and that ain't Ireland any longer.
They moved low level user support services to India years ago, so anyone that thinks this is a surprise is an idiot. Of course that could describe our government.

Sending that mare Coughlan and the gremlin O'Dea over to Texas must have had Dell laughing his ar** off.

To the posters of the lets strike mindset, join the public sector if that his your attitude.
Heavy unionised industry is one of the main reasons there is no longer a British car industry.
Unionisation and strikes will make sure the few other multinationals remaining get jumpy and the chances of luring anyone else here would be slim.

Btw who ever said that Dell manufacturing jobs were high end, highly skilled, knowledge economy jobs knows f*** all about a knowledge economy, much like our government.

sovtek

jmayo wrote: »

Heavy unionised industry is one of the main reasons there is no longer a British car industry.

Really? I thought it was because they made **** cars when there were more dependable cars being made by the Germans and the Japanese. The former being heavily unionised as well.

Btw who ever said that Dell manufacturing jobs were high end, highly skilled, knowledge economy jobs knows f*** all about a knowledge economy, much like our government.

I'll agree with you there. This government has taken the method of attracting FDI (from a previous government) from overseas and then didn't know that you are supposed to use it to support your local industry to create better jobs. Instead they have used it to galavant around the world on junkets, "lending" MNC's millions, buying them blow jobs and who knows what else just so they can come and make a few bucks before ****ing off somewhere else.
There are banana republics in Africa run better.

Danuogma

sovtek wrote: »

Really? I thought it was because they made **** cars when there were more dependable cars being made by the Germans and the Japanese. The former being heavily unionised as well.

That probably had something to do with the fact that the industries that backed up the motor industry in the UK hit the wall in the 70s/80s. The steel industry was taken out on purpose by Thatcher and co in the late 70s and early 80s, as a result cars were being built with sub-standard materials (stuff that the Germans and Japs would not use). Before 1975 the British motor industry could match anything that Germany or Japan could produce and quality was high. I spent a few years in Longbridge in the 80s, the workers there were more than a match for their German and Japanese counterparts. The motor industry was put under on purpose, that was very apparent.

jmayo

sovtek wrote: »

Really? I thought it was because they made **** cars when there were more dependable cars being made by the Germans and the Japanese. The former being heavily unionised as well.

Yeah but the German's didn't stike every other day.
Britain in the 70s was so stop start due to stikes all over the place.
I do agree you do have a point that the car build quality was lower than those of the Japanese and the Germans.
The other thing was some of their designs were utter cr** which didn't help either.

Danuogma wrote: »

That probably had something to do with the fact that the industries that backed up the motor industry in the UK hit the wall in the 70s/80s. The steel industry was taken out on purpose by Thatcher and co in the late 70s and early 80s, as a result cars were being built with sub-standard materials (stuff that the Germans and Japs would not use). Before 1975 the British motor industry could match anything that Germany or Japan could produce and quality was high. I spent a few years in Longbridge in the 80s, the workers there were more than a match for their German and Japanese counterparts. The motor industry was put under on purpose, that was very apparent.

I would say that UK car industry was in trouble long before Thatcher.
The whole British Leyland consortium finished not alone the car industry but also the biggest indigenous truck and tractor manufacturers.
Look at the build quality of things like the Maxi, the Morris Marina, the Princess. Added to that the designs were often not great.
Japanese cars were miles ahead (bar the rusting issues) and began to eat into market.
Jeeze the build quality of even the Land Rover models were cr** until BMW started to sort them out.

silverharp

jmayo wrote: »

I would say that UK car industry was in trouble long before Thatcher.
The whole British Leyland consortium finished not alone the car industry but also the biggest indigenous truck and tractor manufacturers.
Look at the build quality of things like the Maxi, the Morris Marina, the Princess. Added to that the designs were often not great.
Japanese cars were miles ahead (bar the rusting issues) and began to eat into market.
Jeeze the build quality of even the Land Rover models were cr** until BMW started to sort them out.

Clarksons view of it:) , it almost seems comical now to think that a gov. run car company could compete with the Germans or Japanese. well see if the US gov makes a better job of it:pac::pac:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4S5uTBVK6U

jmayo

silverharp wrote: »

Clarksons view of it:) , it almost seems comical now to think that a gov. run car company could compete with the Germans or Japanese. well see if the US gov makes a better job of it:pac::pac:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4S5uTBVK6U

It's not just Clarkson's view of it.
Are you trying to hint that anyone that finds/found fault with the way the British car industry went and the quality of the cars they produced was a Thatcherite :rolleyes:
The car quality was cr**, a bit like the qaulity produced by some other European countries.

BTW American cars in general have a long way to go to catch up with Japanese and European counterparts.

Fratton Fred

My first car was a morris ital. It was awful, mainly in its design. it was a car built in 1982 using an engine designed in 1962.

There was no investment in the company, due to poor management and an infelxible workforce. I don't see how this relates to Dell though. dell are doing what they were always going to do, they are just in a lot more urgency now because they are struggling as much as any other maker of "Luxury" goods.

silverharp

It was painful listening to the RTE news this evening. Can we bail out Waterford Crystal, WTF , If Ireland Inc is depending on the waterford crystal brand we really are screwed.

ejmaztec

silverharp wrote: »

It was painful listening to the RTE news this evening. Can we bail out Waterford Crystal, WTF , If Ireland Inc is depending on the waterford crystal brand we really are screwed.

I think that had there been no recession, they would soon have lost all of the jobs in Ireland to the Far-East and Central and Eastern-Europe anyway. The management would have had no conscience over that. The group's been teetering for years.

old boy

pity dobson did not ask cullen for his take on pee flynns young wan

silverharp wrote: »

It was painful listening to the RTE news this evening. Can we bail out Waterford Crystal, WTF , If Ireland Inc is depending on the waterford crystal brand we really are screwed.

oxygen_old

If Dell send 2,500 jobs to Poland, how many Polish people do you think we will see emigrating from Ireland. Poland has a highly educated population, like Ireland, it could be a case in 5-10 years that they have a lot of Irish immigration.

Blazer

Looks like the big announcement is tomorrow for Limerick.
Dell is setting up a room now for a huge meeting. 500 chairs+ tv

Sick Bhoy

Any idea if this will affect cherrywood?

ntlbell

Sick Bhoy wrote: »

Any idea if this will affect cherrywood?

so far manufacturing only

but I wouldn't be surprised to see cherry wood go in the near future

ROC1977

jobs start to go from April. 1900 jobs gone within 12 months. 6 weeks for every year capped at 52 weeks. Some one like me who's there 12 years thats a kick in the stones. 12 months pay with out shift allowance is ****. I knew that tight **** would screw us.

On a plus note... all the people who do nothing already will keep their jobs. IT, logistics, supply chain. Management have yet again set up all their buddys with new job without posting them on any jobs notice boards.

jmayo

Sorry opened new thread forgot about this old one ...

Anyway Dell announce "release" of 1900 workers this year and are phasing out or rather transistioning their production to Poland.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0108/dell.html

Anybody any ideas what sh*** wee Willie will come out with ?

As someone that lived and worked in Limerick for number of years, I knew/know many people that worked in Dell and it is a sad day for them and their families. All I can say is I hope things work out.

Some of the posts over on the Limerick forum show the despair of those linked to the people being laid off.
Sadly some other posters show how infantile some of the thinking in this country has become, with calls for the governmnet to offer tax breaks to Dell in order for them to stay, another hoping Dell go bust becuase they are abandoning Limerick, one appearing to live in cloud cuckoo land, ala the current government, saying things aren't that bad and sure something will always turn up.

The writing was on the wall, for the last 9 odd years or more ever since Gateway went in Santry, that Dell would pull out their manufacturing from Ireland. It was not going to be cost effective for them to stay in a high cost environment on the edge of their markets.
Over the years those costs became higher.
Their competitors are manufacturing in Far East or China and it was so obvious Dell were not going to stay in a very costly Ireland.
Actually that they stayed this long, in a weird way, is something we should be some what grateful for, but coming at this time it still just heeps more misery on a region and the entire economy.

What was ever done about the looming disaster?
There was never a move to avert the major dependency one city and region has had on one single non-locally owned and controlled industry.
Feeling that Dell should have stayed becuase they owe something is nonsense, but feeling that once again the industrial planners, the financial institutions and the governments did nothing to create a more conducive environment for job creation in areas other than the retail and construction related leaves one angry.

Sick Bhoy

ROC1977 wrote: »

jobs start to go from April. 1900 jobs gone within 12 months. 6 weeks for every year capped at 52 weeks. Some one like me who's there 12 years thats a kick in the stones. 12 months pay with out shift allowance is ****. I knew that tight **** would screw us.

On a plus note... all the people who do nothing already will keep their jobs. IT, logistics, supply chain. Management have yet again set up all their buddys with new job without posting them on any jobs notice boards.

sorry to read that, are all dell employees subject to that?

office staff, sales etc