Greatest Winger Ever?

Stev_o

In keeping with the whole nostalgic best player in a certain discussion trends thats been going on in this forum i thought id make a thread discussing the try scoring machines that are wingers (No Marcus Horan you are not one of them and never will be)

Now im pretty sure everyone is going to say Lomu but me being slightly controversial im going to go with Rupeni Caucaunibuca probably the most talented player let alone winger to play the game. Dont believe me? Watch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6qdM6O26CY

(Though im sure Horan thinks to himself late at night if CaucCau can be so fat and still out sprint most players and score tries for fun why cant he)

Gelio

By a mile Lomu (in my opinion)

Sangre

Easily Lomu. No other player, in any position has ever had as big an impact on a game.

RuggieBear

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlsMTrGa_4k

Stev_o

Ill never convince anyone will I? They both share the same skill off making a score out of nothing.

Gelio

Stev_o wrote: »

Ill never convince anyone will I? They both share the same skill off making a score out of nothing.

Ah yeah, but Lomu was special

Stev_o

ajeffares wrote: »

Ah yeah, but Lomu was special

So was CaucCauc imo he used to win matches by himself, sure Fiji almost qualified from their group in 2003 just from Rupeni scoring tries by himself. He was probably the fastest player to play rugby and with the best agility he had amazing balance.

Gelio

Stev_o wrote: »

So was CaucCauc imo he used to win matches by himself, sure Fiji almost qualified from their group in 2003 just from Rupeni scoring tries by himself. He was probably the fastest player to play rugby and with the best agility he had amazing balance.

Yes, he was quality, but I think Lomu was another level up again. Just remember Lomu v Catt and it backs up what I am saying. Lomu is probably the most famous rugby player ever. Purely because of his rugby ability.
Rupeni was Very fast, but lomu was very fast and the size of a (big) prop. I find it difficult to think of a match in which Lomu didn't dominate his opposite number. Lomu deserved a World cup to his name. When a team went to play the AB they had to come up with a plan to deal with Lomu. I would much prefer to come up against anyone but Lomu when playing on the wing. It probably had something to do with the determination and power Lomu had on the ball. He even had a playstation game named after him (Jonah Lomu rugby).

anonymous_joe

Hmmm.

Lomu wouldn't have had the same impact (though he'd still have been best in the world) if he started today.

But he did. So he's the best ever.

Caucau's the greatest tragedy of wasted talent rugby's ever seen I reckon. Should be the world's best player, but he's just a joke.

Chucky the tree

Lomu by a mile. It's not even close. Stranksy said that Sout Africe completely changed there game plan in 95 to counter-act him and I dont think there will ever be a player who has that kind of impact.

[Jackass]

Caucau's the George Best of rugby and is a waister. That is why he will never be considered a true great imo.

Best Irish for the purpose of debate? Hickie or Geoghan? Hickie for my money, although a close one. Geoghan was amazing considering the absolute sh*te he had playing around him in green too.

twinytwo

lomu.. by a mille. rockocoko will be great if he keeps going the way he is....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlLhwQEOizI

jdivision

Lomu had defensive limitations in that he took he so long to turn around he found it hard to cover kicks. Australia spotted it and used to do it a lot and in the end he used to be dropped for those games iirc. As an offensive force he was special though. CauCau was never bothered enough. Would Tuigamala be up there? Between what he achieved in union and league? I always rated Jeff Wilson highly but Lomu was better I think.

RuggieBear

in my mind it has to be lomu...even non rugby fans can identify him such was his impact on the sport

corny

Rupeni or Lomu? Tough one. Lomu running full tilt was an awesome sight. Speed, power, aggression and no little class. For the sheer impact he had on the sport it would be easy to single out Lomu. I'd go for Rupeni though. Running through broken field he was absolutely breathtaking. Made it look so easy too. Amazing to think he's still only 26 or 27! Doubt he'll ever get his head screwed on right but he should be only reaching his prime now!

Regardless of what you think i recommend watching some vids of Rupeni 4 stone overweight playing for Agen. It's like watching a prop forward scoring machine! Good stuff.

Stev_o

corny wrote: »

Rupeni or Lomu? Tough one. Lomu running full tilt was an awesome sight. Speed, power, aggression and no little class. For the sheer impact he had on the sport it would be easy to single out Lomu. I'd go for Rupeni though. Running through broken field he was absolutely breathtaking. Made it look so easy too. Amazing to think he's still only 26 or 27! Doubt he'll ever get his head screwed on right but he should be only reaching his prime now!

Regardless of what you think i recommend watching some vids of Rupeni 4 stone overweight playing for Agen. It's like watching a prop forward scoring machine! Good stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHV-rzrzBh8

Sangre

Rupeni's best tries are invariably against clubs, weaker international sides and 7s.

Lomu was tearing apart the best teams in the world, many of them in the WC. His impact on the game is unrivalled. Not to mention he has the best rugby game.

I don't think anyone is doubting Rupeni's pace or class (or laziness) but Lomu did it on a much bigger stage.

Sangre

Sangre wrote: »

Rupeni's best tries are invariably against clubs, weaker international sides and 7s.

Lomu was tearing apart the best teams in the world, many of them in the WC. His impact on the game is unrivalled. Not to mention he has the best rugby game.

I don't think anyone is doubting Rupeni's pace or class (or laziness) but Lomu did it on a much bigger stage.

lomus game was 99% based on strength and pace.caucau was just beyond words and had he stayed in nz and played for the all blacks instead of fiji he would be the worlds no1.

he had flair and ability and talent lomu couldnt dream of.

I would still agree lomu is the number 1 because he maintained a longish career with much success and did it on the big stage but had caucau played with the blacks insead of fiji and fulfilled his talent he would have been the best player ever imo.

paddy353

David Campese..........How can you talk about great wingers and not even one mention of this great!

Lomu wasn't the best, not even close. Even Lote Tuiquire (?) is up there too

cristian cullen played wing a good bit aswell.

Podge2k7

IMHO Lomu!

corny

Lillianna Cuddly Sax wrote: »

lomus game was 99% based on strength and pace.caucau was just beyond words and had he stayed in nz and played for the all blacks instead of fiji he would be the worlds no1.

he had flair and ability and talent lomu couldnt dream of.

I would still agree lomu is the number 1 because he maintained a longish career with much success and did it on the big stage but had caucau played with the blacks insead of fiji and fulfilled his talent he would have been the best player ever imo.

+1

Sangre

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts....

anonymous_joe

Sangre wrote: »

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts....

Mmmm. Candy.

Hard to say what CauCau could have done. What he did wasn't bad. Some of his tries were scary.

Gelio

paddy353 wrote: »

Lomu wasn't the best, not even close.

Are we talking about the same guy?

bamboozle

gotta be Campese or Lomu

Serenity Now!

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Hard to say what CauCau could have done

He would have eaten the candy and nuts

Best intl wingers that I have ever seen in the pro era are Jonah Lomu and Goldie Wilson. Kirwan and Campese were the best for me in the modern amateur era. Patric Esteve of France another great winger to watch.

The biggest disappointment would have to be Caucau. Such talent wasted by a sh*thouse attitude and being about as much of a team player for his country as Stephen Ireland.

Anyone who wants more info on the high's and low's of the great CauCau should read this article by steven jones.I usually hate his writing but this is quite good.His demise really came after he left auckland which was only 4 hours away from his home town.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/rugby_union/article4748380.ece


It explains that he came from basically the 3rd world and never settled into modern life,its quite a sad story actually.

On a side note Brian O'Driscoll also said hes the best player hes ever seen.

SomeFool

Best ever for me would have to be Lomu as well. Really liked watching Philippe Bernat-Salles when he was on his game. Class act.

anonymous_joe

Serenity Now! wrote: »

He would have eaten the candy and nuts

Best intl wingers that I have ever seen in the pro era are Jonah Lomu and Goldie Wilson. Kirwan and Campese were the best for me in the modern amateur era. Patric Esteve of France another great winger to watch.

The biggest disappointment would have to be Caucau. Such talent wasted by a sh*thouse attitude and being about as much of a team player for his country as Stephen Ireland.

I always feel sorry for Caucau. I read once that Brazilian footballers have a very high rate of mental problems. Much higher than any other nationality. (At least with lots of players) The big problem is widely held to be unfamiliarity with the style of living in the western world which contrasts insanely with life for a poor person in Brazil.

Lillianna Cuddly Sax wrote: »

Anyone who wants more info on the high's and low's of the great CauCau should read this article by steven jones.I usually hate his writing but this is quite good.His demise really came after he left auckland which was only 4 hours away from his home town.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/rugby_union/article4748380.ece


It explains that he came from basically the 3rd world and never settled into modern life,its quite a sad story actually.

On a side note Brian O'Driscoll also said hes the best player hes ever seen.

That article's just sad.

anonymous_joe

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I always feel sorry for Caucau. I read once that Brazilian footballers have a very high rate of mental problems. Much higher than any other nationality. (At least with lots of players) The big problem is widely held to be unfamiliarity with the style of living in the western world which contrasts insanely with life for a poor person in Brazil.


That article's just sad.

Hence why I said it was sad.

Still gives info about him you would struggle to find.

Shan75

For strength,power and fear of being trampled on Lomu is the one but in terms of overall rugby ability Campese was better and could operate in different positions easily.It depends on what you are looking for from a winger.If it's just to be a finisher or if it's the overall package including tackling and kicking effectively.Habana these days is IMO the most natural as an overall package and yet is also probably in the top 3 finishers in the world.
Surprised nobody has mentioned Anthony Horgan:D

Stev_o

Shan75 wrote: »

For strength,power and fear of being trampled on Lomu is the one but in terms of overall rugby ability Campese was better and could operate in different positions easily.It depends on what you are looking for from a winger.If it's just to be a finisher or if it's the overall package including tackling and kicking effectively.Habana these days is IMO the most natural as an overall package and yet is also probably in the top 3 finishers in the world.
Surprised nobody has mentioned Anthony Horgan:D

No imo i think he's vastly the most over rated winger in modern rugby, all he has is speed and the ability to run straight, he hardly creates something out of nothing unless there's open country in front of him, he's an awful passer and kicker and i remember during the 3N that most Bok fans didnt want him starting.

Its hard to say who are the top best finishers in world rugby today (on the wing) as there the usual suspects ie Clerc, Williams,Rokocoko,Tuqiri are all renowned international finishers but then there's the hidden gems such as Delsau, Tagicakibau, Nalaga etc who dont get the praise they deserve.

Shan75

Well it's all about opinion but I have watched a lot of Tri-Nations and Super 12/14 rugby in the last few years and I think he is capable of doing things that other wingers can only dream of.I think the fact he is so fast masks his great ability for some people.He is a wonderful tackler and I have seen him execute some wonderful kicks both to touch and grubber kicks for himself to chase.He has an ability to get out of tight spaces with use of trickery and side-steps that even Jason Robinson would dream of and I think the only one close to him in that regard recently is Vincent Clerc.His positional sense is also top notch.However I believe this year he has under-performed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLXEHI81bCA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twHZuVPfvAg&feature=related

Stev_o

Shan75 wrote: »

Well it's all about opinion but I have watched a lot of Tri-Nations and Super 12/14 rugby in the last few years and I think he is capable of doing things that other wingers can only dream of.I think the fact he is so fast masks his great ability for some people.He is a wonderful tackler and I have seen him execute some wonderful kicks both to touch and grubber kicks for himself to chase.He has an ability to get out of tight spaces with use of trickery and side-steps that even Jason Robinson would dream of and I think the only one close to him in that regard recently is Vincent Clerc.His positional sense is also top notch.However I believe this year he has under-performed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLXEHI81bCA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twHZuVPfvAg&feature=related

Im not entirely convinced but again as you said its all to do with opinion, personally i think bar the Super 14 final last year (07) his tries were all one dimensional beat the man on the outside when there's open country and then kick and chase for a try, he doesnt have a side step and rarely will take on the FB with ball in hand and will much prefer kick and chase it to score but i guess whatever works for him.

ManFromAtlantis

ah, yesper olsen back in the eighties was a great little winger. not the worlds best but a great little winger. whats rugby?.

Sangre

ManFromAtlantis wrote: »

ah, yesper olsen back in the eighties was a great little winger. not the worlds best but a great little winger. whats rugby?.

Rugby is a market town in Warwickshire, in the West Midlands of England, on the River Avon.

88show

pound for pound,
Terry wright
the skinniest man in history to wear an international jersey
70kg's of pure brilliance.
Talent i would have J Wilson hands down. All he had to do was finish but he could split the line, defend, tackle, kick and read the game, switch to full back and lead, most of all he could listen to what others said about his game to make it better.
Life changers of the game,
well 1st I would have to put Campo. I mean the goose, every kid weather backs or forwards was trying in the 80's in every school yard in NZ anyhow,
Then I would have Kirwan, the biggest swerve in the game to date.
Legs went one way, his body the other, 7 tries in one game. Some say it was against a lesser team but he still had to run them in and one was 1/2 way thru the game, full length of the field almost.
Ist of the 'big' wings. (along with Tuigamala)
but nobody changed the face of rugby as much as Jonah.
Top dog is our Jonah.
We have faster players now, I mean Dougie still runs in a 10sec 100 and most of the worlds top players could do the beep test without coughing up a lung but to go from school boy number8 to AB's winger and then running where ever you wanted knowing that you have a pretty good chance of getting thru making most defenders sh!t themselves
Jonah's the man, no fight there

twinytwo

paddy353 wrote: »

David Campese..........How can you talk about great wingers and not even one mention of this great!

Lomu wasn't the best, not even close. Even Lote Tuiquire (?) is up there too

:eek: seriously dude... any winger who can do this to a french defence is the best.. there is no questionable doubt jonah was the best... he changed world rugby for ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGROu3LiXVM

Yeah but when Lomu got the ball,you knew he was gona run over your defence,there was no question of him doing something different most of the time.

His game was so much based on size and speed,im sure alot of other parts of his game could have been questioned.

Stev_o

twinytwo wrote: »

:eek: seriously dude... any winger who can do this to a french defence is the best.. there is no questionable doubt jonah was the best... he changed world rugby for ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGROu3LiXVM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o99kC2xKg_E

I swear every time i watch that video its like everyone is in slow motion bar CaucCauc

Sangre

Lillianna Cuddly Sax wrote: »

Yeah but when Lomu got the ball,you knew he was gona run over your defence,there was no question of him doing something different most of the time.

His game was so much based on size and speed,im sure alot of other parts of his game could have been questioned.

Lomu's game was based on beating defenses, scoring tries and winning matches. Exactly what a winger is supposed to do.

Amazotheamazing

CauCau is back playing for Agen btw. Hopefully he can get over his issues.

Serenity Now!

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

CauCau is back playing for Agen btw. Hopefully he can get over his issues.

He'll be on the move in the new year if what I've heard is true.

twinytwo

Stev_o wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o99kC2xKg_E

I swear every time i watch that video its like everyone is in slow motion bar CaucCauc

you are not honestly trying to compare those 2 tries.. seriously

Stev_o

twinytwo wrote: »

you are not honestly trying to compare those 2 tries.. seriously

I am and i just did.

LilOc

In that time (pre-Laporte era), beating a French defense was not such an achievement to say the least...

My favorite is Caucaunibuca as well. But Blanco should be up there in the discussion IMHO.

eagle eye

Either Lomu or Wilson for me, they were both great.

Serenity Now!

LilOc wrote: »

Blanco should be up there in the discussion IMHO.

He was a fullback.

LilOc

Oh the mortifying shame of it... Of course. I'm stupid. Yet he played on the wing as well.

sitout

ryan giggs