[Article] Road deaths on pace for lowest figure since 1961

Amtmann

By DON LAVERY


Sunday December 21 2008

IF current trends continue, Ireland will have the lowest number of deaths on our roads since records began, Road Safety Authority chairman Gay Byrne said yesterday.

Former host of The Late Late Show said if the situation continues, the death toll will be the lowest since 1961. So far this year, 270 people have been killed, 68 fewer than in 2007.

Mr Byrne told the Sunday Independent that fewer people were being arrested by gardai for drunk driving and people appeared to be taking the safety education messages on board.

But he said there were still "renegades" who drove too fast, and he wanted to see the "culture of speed" in the country tackled next.

"We drive too fast anyway," he said. Mr Byrne said the use of speed cameras and Gatso vans in the first quarter of 2009 will deal with that aspect, while measures by the RSA will have an influence over a whole range of areas including PSV driving, and lorry drivers. His hope for 2009 would be that the "incredible" figures for the fall in road deaths in 2008 would continue in 2009.

On Friday, Mr Byrne and TV presenter Miriam O'Callaghan launched a new series of TV adverts as part of the RSA's Crashed Lives campaign, which tries to demonstrate that it's not just those seriously injured or killed on our roads whose lives are changed forever in a crash.

Instead, the devastating consequences are like shock waves that affect family, friends and whole communities, the RSA said.

The new series of 50-second TV adverts features three true-life road tragedies, as told by bereaved families.

On the roads last week, a 36-year-old married man was killed a short distance from his home when his 4x4 crashed at Bornacoola, Carrick-on-Shannon, Co Leitrim, on Thursday.

The victim was named as Martin Gorham, originally from Ballinalee, Co Longford, but who had lived in the Bornacoola area for the past number of years.

He was the only occupant of the vehicle.

- DON LAVERY

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/road-deaths-on-pace-for-lowest-figure-since-1961-1582418.html

Well done to the Gardai, the RSA, the NRA and to drivers.

I hope we continue to do better. There's still a lot to do, however.

* treacherous stretches of our busiest roads must be realigned;
* tractors must be banned from motorways;
* motorway service areas must be operational asap;
* high visibility road markings and studs should be placed on all sections of N and R roads, and on well travelled L roads;
* improved driver training is required.

Chris_533976

With all the cutbacks and the fact that noone has any money apparently, all those upgrades which have been culled will mean people will die needlessly.

Heroditas

Furet wrote: »

I hope we continue to do better. There's still a lot to do, however.

* treacherous stretches of our busiest roads must be realigned;
* tractors must be banned from motorways;
* motorway service areas must be operational asap;
* high visibility road markings and studs should be placed on all sections of N and R roads, and on well travelled L roads;
* improved driver training is required.

Excellent points. I'd also suggest banning tractors from some of the National roads during the daytime too. Nearly every time I come back from Cork, I get stuck in a tailback behind a tractor near Abbeyleix. It's quite a treacherous stretch of road and a tractor plodding along at 20kmph doesn't help - particularly if it isn't well lit.

However, I'm wary of Gaybo's comments regarding tackling speed. You just know how they'll do this: place Gatso vans on the busy stretches of motorways clocking people instead of a more visible Garda presence on the poorer quality roads.


As a matter of interest, how many people have died on Irish motorways this year? I can only think of the truck driver who died on the M4 a month or so ago.

Guy:Incognito

I wonder have we nearly worked our way through all the stupid people that kill themselves and others?:)

rua327

Wow, this is great news. Lets all hope this continues. The new ads are very hard hitting and have certainly made me throw on the anchors anythime I creep over 100km/hr. Still a LOT of suicide drivers out there though. Drive Cork to Limerick regularly and always have at least 1 asshole undertaking or overtaking on blind bends etc.

L1011

I suspect this is down almost entirely due to road improvements, and not adverts which at this stage, we've all seen before in terms of shock value.

We opened how many KM of new motorway this year? M6, two sections of M8, M9; all bypassing relatively poor roads in places, with pedestrians, schoolkids, etc to factor in.

E92

rua327 wrote: »

The new ads are very hard hitting and have certainly made me throw on the anchors anythime I creep over 100km/hr.

Don't mind Gaybo's rubbish.

Fact is that the very politicians who are complaining about people going too fast have decided to redesignate over 200 km of roadway and give them all a speed limit increase of 20 km/h up to 120.

And if the next tranche of rediesiognations go through we'll have another 200+ km of roads with a 20 km/h speed limit increase.

Cork County Council have increased the speed limits on various DCs around Cork to 120, but suprisingly there are no massive increase in deaths or anything:rolleyes::rolleyes:.

I would point out that 120 km/h on Dual Carriageways/Motorways is not fast at all by any stretch of the imagination, especially as these roads have a design speed of 160 km/h.

AugustusMaximus

Gaybo is talking through his arse.

I suspect that the reduction in road deaths has to do with two things

1. The banning of L drivers from driving on their own.
2. Various improvements to roads and the opening of new stretches of motorway.

I suspect that speed cameras will not reduce road deaths and would be much better spent on filling pot holes and improving road surfaces which def do kill people.

Of course, the vast majority of these cameras will be placed on motorways, where err, hardly anyone dies.

Gay Byrnes focus on speed, no matter what always amazes me. I personally believe he doesn't have a bloody clue what he is talking about. I mean, how many years was Gay driving on the road without having taken any driving test ? There's a hell of a lot worse going on, on our roads than just speeding.

I wonder would Gay have anything to say about the old man today who pulled out in front of me on a T junction without even looking ? Funnilly enough he wasn't speeding at all.

ardmacha

I wonder would Gay have anything to say about the old man today who pulled out in front of me on a T junction without even looking ? Funnilly enough he wasn't speeding at all.

I think he would have said that because you weren't speeding then you did not crash into this eejit.

There are small labour intensive road works on the national secondary and regional network that would improve safety, these must be safeguarded from cuts. Also everyone should be required to do the theory test when renewing their licence every 10 years.

orbital83

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

I mean, how many years was Gay driving on the road without having taken any driving test ?

He still hasn't taken a test.
Apparantly, he doesn't need to, because "he's a safe driver".

Should I laugh or cry? Only in Ireland.

AugustusMaximus

ardmacha wrote: »

I think he would have said that because you weren't speeding then you did not crash into this eejit.

There are small labour intensive road works on the national secondary and regional network that would improve safety, these must be safeguarded from cuts. Also everyone should be required to do the theory test when renewing their licence every 10 years.

I would imagine instructing drivers to look right when pulling out at a junction would be far more beneficial than taking the chance of pulling out of the junction without looking in the knowledge that no one else is speeding.

The message from the RSA seems to be that as long as you don't speed and your not out of you're head on alcohol then everything else is free game.

- Poor lane discipline
- Red light running
- Driving too far over the white line on regional roads
- Aggressive behaviour including reckless overtaking and tailgating
- Inconsiderate behvaiour to other drivers including blocking overtaking and accelerating when others try to overtake
- Appaulingly bad skills in terms of negotiating roundabouts
- Awful usage of indicators (especially on roundabouts)
- Actual car racing on public roads
- Overtaking lane hogging
- Mobile phone usage
- Very slow driving on good standard roads.

All of the above are incredible frustrating to other drivers. Many of them are dangerous. What they have in common is that they are almost totally ignored by the RSA.

Solving the above problems would

(a). Improve road safety
(b). Increase the traffic capacity of our roads network

AugustusMaximus

John J wrote: »

He still hasn't taken a test.
Apparantly, he doesn't need to, because "he's a safe driver".

Should I laugh or cry? Only in Ireland.

He's taken the motorbike test in order to ride that Harley he was given. I don't know wether he's taken the car test.

What is not in doubt is that he was driving for 30+ years without haven taken one. I mean, how hypocritical was he when he was giving out about learner drivers on our roads without having taken the test ?

cyclopath2001

E92 wrote: »

Cork County Council have increased the speed limits on various DCs around Cork to 120, but suprisingly there are no massive increase in deaths or anything:rolleyes::rolleyes:.

That would be because drivers are driving at the same speed now as before the limit changed?

furet wrote:

* improved driver training is required.

This assumes that the reason for bad driving is lack of skill/knowledge.

AugustusMaximus

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

That would be because drivers are driving at the same speed now as before the limit changed?

Those who were speeding before have no prob increased their speed again. I personally do about 130kph per the speedo on those section when I would have done 110kph before.

Those roads are perfectably capable of 130kph.

I'm sure others could pull up the link to it, but the crash rates and death rates on Autobahn with and without speed limits are the same.

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

This assumes that the reason for bad driving is lack of skill/knowledge.

Well, a lack of knowledge of the consequences. People speeding on rural roads rarely expect a tractor to pull out of a field etc.

Part of driver training should be education of the consequences of their actions.

BluntGuy

Furet wrote:

Well done to the Gardai, the RSA, the NRA and to drivers.

I hope we continue to do better. There's still a lot to do, however.

* treacherous stretches of our busiest roads must be realigned;
* tractors must be banned from motorways;
* motorway service areas must be operational asap;
* high visibility road markings and studs should be placed on all sections of N and R roads, and on well travelled L roads;
* improved driver training is required.

Very good points.

However, we must still remember that we lost 270 people on our roads this year. Personally I will not be happy until that number drops right down to zero, something that can only be achieved through the points mentioned above.

Good quality roads combined with bad quality drivers will not save lifes.

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

- Awful usage of indicators (especially on roundabouts)

+1

Honestly, people in Ireland do not have a CLUE how to use their indicators at a roundabout.

There are those who'll shove them on AFTER they've taken their exit.
There are those who'll shove them on JUST AS THEY'RE ABOUT to take their exit.
There are those who won't bother AT ALL and simply leave you to guess where they're turning off.

And then there is that small minority of people who actually know that you indicate right until you go past the exit PRIOR to your exit, then you indicate left for your exit.

So simple, and yet people can't be bothered to do it.

steyr fan

My pet driving hate of all time is (are?) fog lights, both front & back. Some drivers have no idea what they are for. Well bloody well find out, read the rules of the road, and make the roads a lot safer for everybody, particularly at night. Attached is a little reminder.

Turn off the bloody fog lights (when there is no fog).

btw, do the guards ever enforce this rule?

afatbollix

does any body know how many people are killed in the UK? on one of the cop shows it said that 3000 cyclists are killed each year... thats a bit high??


also id love to punch gaybo in his stupid face.... speed kills me arse... stupid driving kills.. and taking a mucky blind bend at 70mph in his suped up car is a stupid gob****e...

but i sapose its the people doing 55kph in three laned DC that are the real killers...

AugustusMaximus

anto-t wrote: »

but i sapose its the people doing 55kph in three laned DC that are the real killers...

These are the people Gaybo would hold in high regard.

They might want to slow down though.

Victor

Guys, speed is what turns a serious accident into a fatal one.

A pedestrian has about a 10% chance of being killed at 30km/h, but 90% chance of being killed at 50km/h.

afatbollix

they have a 80% chance of serviving at 50kph.. its 60kph where they have a 80% of dieing..

AugustusMaximus

Victor wrote: »

Guys, speed is what turns a serious accident into a fatal one.

A pedestrian has about a 10% chance of being killed at 30km/h, but 90% chance of being killed at 50km/h.

Preventing accidents should be the number one aim, not minimising the effects of an accident.

Focusing on preventing accidents has a hell of a lot more beneficial effects than making sure people survive the accidents that do happen.

L1011

Victor wrote: »

Guys, speed is what turns a serious accident into a fatal one.

A pedestrian has about a 10% chance of being killed at 30km/h, but 90% chance of being killed at 50km/h.

anto-t wrote: »

they have a 80% chance of serviving at 50kph.. its 60kph where they have a 80% of dieing..

Boards.ie's favourite made up statistic - both of these sets of figures are thrown around, used in adverts, etc; and have no reliable evidence to proof either...

Amtmann

E92 wrote: »

Don't mind Gaybo's rubbish.

Fact is that the very politicians who are complaining about people going too fast have decided to redesignate over 200 km of roadway and give them all a speed limit increase of 20 km/h up to 120.

I agree that there's an over-emphasis on speed. In fairness, not all the RSA ads are about that. This one is very poignant: http://www.irishtimes.com/indepth/rsa-adverts/ (the first one, Jim Nash of Kilworth).


One of the most chilling scenes I ever came across was a horrific accident between Cahir and Mitchelstown that happened early one winter's morning a few years ago. At the time I was commuting daily from Cahir to be at work in Fermoy for 8am and came across this: http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2004/01/23/story582858118.asp
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/three-generations-die-in-crash-189617.html

Give or take a few minutes, I and my friends could have been involved in the accident too. I used to hate driving past that spot for years afterwards, until the new M8 opened. Now I never have to look at it again thank God.

BluntGuy

Furet wrote: »

I agree that there's an over-emphasis on speed. In fairness, not all the RSA ads are about that. This one is very poignant: http://www.irishtimes.com/indepth/rsa-adverts/ (the first one, Jim Nash of Kilworth).


One of the most chilling scenes I ever came across was a horrific accident between Cahir and Mitchelstown that happened early one winter's morning a few years ago. At the time I was commuting daily from Cahir to be at work in Fermoy for 8am and came across this: http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2004/01/23/story582858118.asp
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/three-generations-die-in-crash-189617.html

Give or take a few minutes, I and my friends could have been involved in the accident too. I used to hate driving past that spot for years afterwards, until the new M8 opened. Now I never have to look at it again thank God.

That story is still depressing...

It also however serves a stark reminder of how good quality roads such as the M8 are needed to save lives.

transylman

Is there anywhere where you can get the statistics for the causes of road accidents. Its all very easy to blame speedsters but the actual reasons for accidents should be looked at.

mickoneill30

transylman wrote: »

Is there anywhere where you can get the statistics for the causes of road accidents. Its all very easy to blame speedsters but the actual reasons for accidents should be looked at.

Definitely. How often do we on the news that a lone car went off the road at 3:30AM in the morning. There's one of 3 causes for something like that (I think). Drunk, sleepy or speeding. If an alert driver was driving along a road by themselves they generally don't swerve off into trees for no reason.

I hate the term that the car went out of control. It's as if it's some kind of animal that we have to wrestle with to get from A -> B and sometimes it gets its own way.

It's great news though. But hopefully it gets better. Complain all you want about speeding or roads, a lot of Irish drivers are idiots. The speed limits have to be designed for the lowest common denominator. How many times in the last week have you seen somebody break a red light or do something equally stupid. Great roads won't stop those guys from having an accident. They'll have one eventually.

BluntGuy

mickoneill30 wrote: »

Great roads won't stop those guys from having an accident. They'll have one eventually.

The only thing that will is a change in our driving attitude and to bring up the ability of Irish drivers. That means:

> Frequent re-testing after passing driving exam. (Every 5 years for example)

> Driving Exam that places emphasis on how to drive on motorways because people don't seem to know what the lanes are for.

> Ensure that at least 10% of the questions in the exam are about roundabouts. We have millions of them in this country, yet hardly anyone knows how to get around them correctly.

> Garda Traffic Corps must have equal presence on good quality motorways and standard regional and national roads to ensure that rules are followed on both.

And finally...

> Fixed speed cameras are not the way forward. IMO they are an incredibly sneaky, backwards method of forcing people to slow down and once people are aware of where the cameras are, they'll only slow down for that stretch. Useless.

The only place I'd recommend installing fixed speed cameras are on hazardous regional and local roads. Penalising people for going 3 km/h over the speed limit on high-quality motorways with a design speed of 160 km/h is ridiculous.

And I can bet you if fixed speed cameras are installed, they'll be PPP, so instead of the money you've been fined going back into the road (so that at least some good will come of it) it'll be going to some random private company instead. :mad:

Stark

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

He's taken the motorbike test in order to ride that Harley he was given. I don't know wether he's taken the car test.

What is not in doubt is that he was driving for 30+ years without haven taken one. I mean, how hypocritical was he when he was giving out about learner drivers on our roads without having taken the test ?

To be fair, he already has a pink license so it's not just a matter of sending in an application form for a driving test. He *could* ask a tester to spend 30 mins doing a token facsimile driving test with him and tell everyone afterwards that "Gay's great" but that would be even more laughable imo. I don't think it's possible under current legislation to surrender a driving license and go back to a learner's permit?

mike65

Regarding causes of crashes there is a now defunct website which for a year or so chronicled the fatal crashes and included details regarding cause.

Sadly its been pulled http://roaddeaths.ie/

transylman

The best I can find is this report

http://www.internationaltransportforum.org/jtrc/safety/targets/Performance/TS3-Ireland.pdf

The given estimated attribution rates are from around the year 2000 and break down as 24% being due to speeding and 33% being due to drink driving.

From my own viewpoint, a huge percentage of the road fatalities I personally know of have been a result of drink driving (probably %70). The next would be speeding but only in combination with other factors such as bad driving (excessive speed in poor conditions or bad overtaking) or very poor road quality (junction layouts and such).

I think gaybo just wants to pepper the motorways with speed cameras.

BluntGuy

http://news.ie.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=12168853

Victor

BluntGuy wrote: »

And I can bet you if fixed speed cameras are installed, they'll be PPP, so instead of the money you've been fined going back into the road (so that at least some good will come of it) it'll be going to some random private company instead. :mad:

No, they are being paid a fixed fee to operate X hours at locations instructed by the Garda.

transylman wrote: »

I think gaybo just wants to pepper the motorways with speed cameras.

The list is on the garda website - very few motorways AFAIK. http://www.garda.ie/sez/Speed_Enforcement_Zones.htm

Amtmann

Victor wrote: »

No, they are being paid a fixed fee to operate X hours at locations instructed by the Garda.The list is on the garda website - very few motorways AFAIK. http://www.garda.ie/sez/Speed_Enforcement_Zones.htm

Hm. Just looking at the Tipperary section, a few points are marked on the "N8", which no longer really exists. I wonder do they mean the R639 or the M8? Because they're using Google Maps, which hasn't been updated, confusion reigns.

Amtmann

The reduction in fatalities in recent years is staggering when you compare the noughties to the nadir that was the seventies: http://www.garda.ie/statistics98/rtastats_longterm.html

Victor

I imagine it was the old N8 - the list is a few months old.

Poking through the list, a lot of the sites seem to be near the motorway network, but not on it, e.g. the N8 just south of Portlaoise, and the roads from the N11 into Bray and Greystones.

L1011

Victor wrote: »

No, they are being paid a fixed fee to operate X hours at locations instructed by the Garda.The list is on the garda website - very few motorways AFAIK. http://www.garda.ie/sez/Speed_Enforcement_Zones.htm

That list is interestingly missing the one place I know they frequently get people - M4 just west of the Maynooth interchange; yet has the entire Straffan Road through Maynooth which while frequently peppered with breathalyser points, I've never seen a speed check on.

BrianD3

I wonder what effect safer cars are starting to have on the figures. In the last 10-15 years there have been major improvements. Cars now have
-better brakes, ABS, ESP etc. to help drivers avoid collisions
-much better crashworthiness due to EuroNCAP crash testing. Also tested for pedestrian safety
-features such as seatbelt warning buzzers that forces drivers to wear their belt or else listen to an annoying buzzer.

On the last point, my dad has been driving since the 1940s and never wore his seatbelt on short journeys (less than about 5 miles) until 2005 when he got a car with a seatbelt buzzer.

On the crash worthiness and how cars have improved, there are numerous videos on youtube that demonstrate this. Here are some:

Small modern Renault Modus hits big old Volvo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBDyeWofcLY

Recent car hits tree

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5wiXnExdm0

Older car subjected to a similar test

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uGGvJjR5jw

mickoneill30

BrianD3 wrote: »

I wonder what effect safer cars are starting to have on the figures. In the last 10-15 years there have been major improvements.

You'd also have to take into account the increase of cars on the roads over the last 15 years too though. That's a changing variable too.

E92

mickoneill30 wrote: »

You'd also have to take into account the increase of cars on the roads over the last 15 years too though. That's a changing variable too.

Which makes it all the more significant that the numbers are going the way they are going.

The truth is that all the motorways and dual carriageways combined with random breath testing are the 2 reasons why fatalities have gone down so much.

After all the Government reckons that you are between 7 and 10 times less likely to die on Motorways/High Quality Dual Carriageways, so it's hardly surprising really.

And with the Inter Urban roads due for completion we will see the number of fatalities go down even further next year and in 2010. I would be disappointed if we don't see the fatality rate go to 260 next year, significant amounts of motorway was added to the national road network this year and next year will be the first full year that we will have this obvious and very important benefit.

With a recession and hence less traffic on the roads the target will be even easier still.

The Government should have no problem meeting their self imposed target of 250 fatalities per annum. If we get them down to this level then we will be in line with the European average.

But yet we get people objecting to the country building a decent road network because it might kill the odd polar bear or penguin here and there(yeah, because one really small country can do all that much damage especially when CO2 is something like not even 0.5% of the total gases in the atmosphere:rolleyes::rolleyes:)!

AugustusMaximus

E92 wrote: »

Which makes it all the more significant that the numbers are going the way they are going.

The truth is that all the motorways and dual carriageways combined with random breath testing are the 2 reasons why fatalities have gone down so much.

After all the Government reckons that you are between 7 and 10 times less likely to die on Motorways/High Quality Dual Carriageways, so it's hardly surprising really.

And with the Inter Urban roads due for completion we will see the number of fatalities go down even further next year and in 2010. I would be disappointed if we don't see the fatality rate go to 260 next year, significant amounts of motorway was added to the national road network this year and next year will be the first full year that we will have this obvious and very important benefit.

With a recession and hence less traffic on the roads the target will be even easier still.

The Government should have no problem meeting their self imposed target of 250 fatalities per annum. If we get them down to this level then we will be in line with the European average.

But yet we get people objecting to the country building a decent road network because it might kill the odd polar bear or penguin here and there(yeah, because one really small country can do all that much damage especially when CO2 is something like not even 0.5% of the total gases in the atmosphere:rolleyes::rolleyes:)!

IIRC, with 330 or so deaths last year, we ranked about average in the 27 EU states for road deaths. 250 would put us well above average.

IMO, the banning of L drivers from our roads has a lot to do with deaths going down too.

On the other hand, speed traps on motorways has just about nothing to do with the reduction.

E92

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

IIRC, with 330 or so deaths last year, we ranked about average in the 27 EU states for road deaths. 250 would put us well above average.

IMO, the banning of L drivers from our roads has a lot to do with deaths going down too.

On the other hand, speed traps on motorways has just about nothing to do with the reduction.

I agree with the proper enforcement of the L drivers. That definitely is a good idea.

However apparently young drivers are still the most likely to have fatalities and the deaths in this category haven't really gone down at all.

I firmly believe that all drivers should be re-made do the driving test every 5 years.

I also think that everyone on a learner permit should be made have at least 5 lessons by a RSA ADI approved driving instructor.

I had lessons with an instructor, and I have no doubt that because of those I am a much better driver than I otherwise would be.

I might be a BMW driver and apparently indicators are an optional extra for us because we think we're superior to everyone else(we don't think it - we know it because we're driving the finest cars money can buy:D:D), but I do actually indicate all the time, and I even do it properly as well:)!

Victor

BrianD3 wrote: »

I wonder what effect safer cars are starting to have on the figures.

Agreed. I think there are a few factors at play.

1. The rust buckets are gone - when was the last time you saw a car with serious corrosion problems?
2. SUVs aside, manufacturers have been designing cars to be less risky to their occupants and others.
3. People are actually wearing their seatbelts. It toook a 3 year old screaming "STOP! GRANDDAD YOUR SEATBELT" to make my father wear his.
4. There has been a steady reduction since the expansion of the Traffic Corp and the introduction of random breath testing.

mickoneill30 wrote: »

You'd also have to take into account the increase of cars on the roads over the last 15 years too though. That's a changing variable too.

While yes, car numbers have gone up substantially and people are driving more (they can afford to or need to), this isn't necessarily a good metric. Gun numbers are up - does this mean that gun deaths are more acceptable? More understandable yes, more acceptable no.

E92 wrote: »

I agree with the proper enforcement of the L drivers. That definitely is a good idea.

I wonder, was it the actual testing or was it people being forced to actually study and practice.

However apparently young drivers are still the most likely to have fatalities and the deaths in this category haven't really gone down at all.

I imagine it will always be like that - the trick is to reduce it. Young men are society's risk takers - it is they who de is other accidents, manslaughter and suicide.

I firmly believe that all drivers should be re-made do the driving test every 5 years.

Agreed, at some interval at least, even if is only a theory test.

I also think that everyone on a learner permit should be made have at least 5 lessons by a RSA ADI approved driving instructor.

Agreed. And everyone else could do with some advanced training.

I might be a BMW driver and apparently indicators are an optional extra for us because we think we're superior to everyone else(we don't think it - we know it because we're driving the finest cars money can buy:D:D), but I do actually indicate all the time, and I even do it properly as well:)!

I realise you are slightly joking, but everyone always blames the other guy. I've only run a red light once since I was 16 (at school, under instruction), but there have been times I've asked myself "Was that light actually green?".

monument

E92 wrote: »

Which makes it all the more significant that the numbers are going the way they are going.

Not if you factor in that more cars on the road have lead to heavier traffic and lowers speeds.

mike65

from times

A dramatic fall in the number of pedestrian casualties is the main reason why the number of fatalities on Irish roads in 2008 has been the lowest since records began.

With four days left, this year’s provisional figure of 275 deaths is 57 fewer than the previous low of 332 in 1961, when road fatalities were first recorded. The number is 63 below last year’s total of 338.

So far this year 46 pedestrians have died, well down on the figure of 82 killed in 2007. By contrast the number of drivers killed in 2008 was 132, just six fewer than last year.

The other big reduction was in the number of passengers who died, with the figure down from 70 in 2007 to 51 this year.

Brian Farrell, a spokesman for the Road Safety Authority (RSA), said there has been a “sea change in driver behaviour and attitudes” as well as an increased awareness of pedestrian safety. He also credited “engineering factors” with helping to make roads safer for users.

“There are still some days to go and hopefully people continue to be careful, but this is a big reduction. It is a good achievement given that the number of cars on Irish roads is about 2m now and in 1961 it would have been about 300,000,” he said.

The RSA’s official target is to reduce road deaths to a level of 60 fatalities per 1m people, which would equate to 252 deaths per year in Ireland. “We still have challenges ahead,” said Farrell.

The most recent road fatality, however, was a female pedestrian in Co Cavan. Therese McGowan, 29, from Oldcastle, Co Meath, was hit by a vehicle on the N3 yesterday. A man has been arrested in connection with the incident.

The AA has said a significant factor in the reduced number of road deaths has been the introduction of random breath testing in 2006, which it described as making a “major difference”.

L1011

A distinct lack of main road traffic bearing through Carlow, Kilbeggan, Moate, etc etc may have had some affect on the pedestrian figures...

professore

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

Gaybo is talking through his arse.

I suspect that the reduction in road deaths has to do with two things

1. The banning of L drivers from driving on their own.
2. Various improvements to roads and the opening of new stretches of motorway.

You're forgetting the clampdown on drink driving and random breath testing. Lots of people have changed their habits since that was introduced.

AugustusMaximus

monument wrote: »

Not if you factor in that more cars on the road have lead to heavier traffic and lowers speeds.

Interestingly this completely condradicts Gay Byrne who thinks everyone is driving faster than ever.

It makes me wonder does Gay Byrne drive on our roads at all. I mean if he doesn't leave Dublin he should never get above 10kph.

mickoneill30

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

I mean if he doesn't leave Dublin he should never get above 10kph.

During peak times. Most of the major accidents that I see on the news aren't during peak times. It's not that hard to speed, even in Dublin.

monument

mickoneill30 wrote: »

During peak times. Most of the major accidents that I see on the news aren't during peak times. It's not that hard to speed, even in Dublin.

Indeed, my comment should have ended in "during peak times."

Ham'nd'egger

Reading through this thread, there is many valid points that weigh against the RSA adage.

However we still need to accept that that there is many variables involved in motoring fatalities and the only way to decrease the amount who die or are injured on the roads is to work on the factors that will cut down on crashes and their severity. The others such as road standards, car safety standards and quality, other drivers habits etc are out of yours and my hands so logic will follow that we can only do with factors at our own end; namely speed, drink driving and fatigue, driving skills and adhering to traffic sense and rules of the road. These are things we can choose to do something about and these are what the RSA wants us to do on a personal level.

Remember, everybody else on the road is somebody who can crash into you and to them, so are you:)

madaboutcars

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

Interestingly this completely condradicts Gay Byrne who thinks everyone is driving faster than ever.

Well said.

It's clear from this thread the plenty of people don't listen to Uncle Gaybo though, and that is a good thing:)!

I find that people do 70 kph in town and 70 kph on an open road even though the speed limit in town is 50 kph and on the open road the limit is 100 kph.

Why oh why people feel the need to drive so slowly when the speed limit obviously permits a much higher speed is beyond me.

I really can't understand why people do it.

I reckon they do it to a)piss others off because they are high horses like oh I don't know cyclopath , b) they "don't know what the limit is", c) they could be like someone I know who is "afriad to use 5th gear" and d) grossly incompetant at driving.