Stigma associated with female homosexuality?

Howdy....

This is just something I've noticed over the past couple of months in work and through chatting with the lads down the pub or whatever.

Whilst being a gay man is somewhat socially acceptable nowadays (I'm sure there are gay men who would dispute this) I've noticed that it is relatively less so for gay women. It also seems to be represented in mainstream media/showbiz, i.e. think of the number of "outed" gay celebrities, and how many of them are female?

Are the numbers/ratios fairly represented? Is it simply a case that there are less lesbians? Or are gay women just not comfortabl;e enough with people knowing they "Dine at the Y". Or is lesbianism still regarded as taboo by society in general? I remember when your one Ellen deWhateverhernameis came 'outta deCloset' so to speak, and there was great scandal in all the red-tops and celebrity bloggers etc.....or so i'm told...
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Anyway, the reason it really came to my attention is that there are 5 blokes in our office who are comfortable enough with everyone knowing they prefer other men. Out of a complement of 150+ staff, i've a feeling the numbers are a bit off and there are few still in the closet, but there are zero lesbians. Zilch. None. Nada.

Just wondering.....any thoughts?

Kya1976

I wouldn't agree with that at all it always seem to be more acceptable for females to be gay/bi.
I personally think woman are more open when it comes to their sexuality, the boundaries doesn't seem to be as strict with many women as it is with men. I think a lot of women could imagine having a (sexual)relationship with another women without consider themselves gay.

emy-87

It seems to me that there is more acceptance by society of so-called 'Lipstick Lesbianism' than real lesbianism in my opinion. Even look at Lindsay Lohan. She is supposadly in a Lesbian relationship but it seems most people assume shes just doing it for attention.

stovelid

I'd hazard a guess that a lot of people don't engage with female homosexuality as seriously. You get the obvious male lesbian fantasies, or celebrity lipstick lesbianism, where it's portrayed as a temporary phase, often as women 'taking a break' from men.

That said, you could say that popular acceptance of gay males is largely limited to safer, camp Julian Clary/Alan Hughes(?)/Graham Norton types too.

Galvasean

Interesting point by the OP. Maybe it's a case of openly gay men are more 'loud and proud' by nature (in general) while gay women are more reserved about it and harder to spot.

brianthebard

I think lesbianism isn't taken seriously a lot of the time, its a different stigma to male homosexuality. Or rather its a stigma that have been attached to women for a long time, that they don't really know what's best for themselves or make silly decisions or whatever.

dontcallmecrazy

do people still actually care who is gay and who isnt? no disrespect to the OP, nothing personal, but i just dont understand this whole need for the general public to label everyone, be it gay/lesbian bi, or whatever else.

you dont here straight people 'coming out' as straight when they reach sexual maturity, so why do we put so much pressure on the homosexual population to do so...

i cant understand why sexuality in this sense is still 'taboo'.

what business is it of everyone else to know what orientation another is, and what does it matter?

think its time people stopped making such a big deal about this, its boring.

slightly off topic i know, but how and ever...

gcgirl

I blame katy perry personally sudden influx of 17/18 year old girls snogging the faces off one another just to show off I'd wish they cop the fec on! I have a few lesbian friends and being a girl and being bi/lesbian to much of my male friends is the biggest turn on for them !

Mr. Incognito

Nice to see the gay women don't lose their protensity to moan.

Gay wommins is sexy!

Butch gays wommins is not!

I might get pillored for this but generally fella's don't give a crap bout gay women as natural instinct is oh, kinky. But we are turned off/ scared by lebians with buzz aldrin haircuts and dogtags.

Gay men are "acceptable" to women, because their instinct is a camp chap on the afternoon show telling them what to wear/cook/read etc, well they're all about the shopping. I know a gay friend that is constantly trying to overcome this sterotype, as he says himself he likes cock, not shopping.

Gay men have become the champion sterotype as your friendly neighbourhood fag.

Gay women, well they the big scary butch skinhead.

Which is more acceptible to society at large. Lindsey Lohon might break this mould but she's not exactly, I'm Gay, I'm proud, is she.....just "I think it's fairly obvious, youknow wink wink" ****e.

That be your problem right there.

Dragan

Personally i know a good few more gay blokes than gay ladies. But i know a lot more bisexual women than i do bisexual men.

I think men tend to polarise quite a bit, we love something or hate it, if you get me.

Personally i think the whole world is a bit hinged on other people's sexuality. I was asked once if i ever had a gay fantasy, my quick and instant answer was "no". At the time i was accused of being a bit closed off, apparently I was obviously covering things up and should explore a bit. It was a gay man that was telling me all this.

I then sat and explained for about 10 minutes the joy of the female form and my own fascination for it. While i can appreciate what it is that makes a man good looking i am simply too obsessed with female beauty to be distracted by it.

I think a lot of blokes are like that, it's just easier to call us closed off than accept this train of thought.

For girls, from what i can tell, they tend to become sexually aware a bit younger than males, many of female friends had their first kiss with a girl at quite a young age because at that point boys were occupied with football and girls were still scary.

Snowie

I was seeing a lesbian just before she decied she was indeed a lesbian, even kissing her didnt feel right, i felt hugley attracted to her but over all i felt there was something missing.....


it didnt bother me, that she became gay actuly it was great i got lots of insight into how a woman treats a woman in bed etc which has prooved to be invaluble...

So no it dont really attach anything to them...

Well I can't really comment on how stigmatised or not gay men or women might feel... BUT on a slightly off-the-topic thing, this thing of girls kissing other girls in public for attention (mainly from fellas) reeeally pisses me off. It's not a new phenomenon sparked by Kate Perry, it's been a past-time for immature muppets who crave attention by any means for quite a while, and it's tacky!!! There, I said it. Not that people kissing in public is tacky but people kissing simply to be titillating is tacky.

Maybe (just speculating) it's hard to be open about your sexuality if you feel female gay relationships are not be respected?

GirlInterrupted

Deleted User wrote: »

W

Maybe (just speculating) it's hard to be open about your sexuality if you feel female gay relationships are not be respected?

I think you're on to something there. Gay males have been well represented in movies and on tv, and consequently the public is familiar to the point of comfort. You can only respect that which you know.

The only lesbian representation on tv that I can think of is the ''L word'', which seems to contain only the stereotype of the uber attractive 'Lipstick lesbian', which doesn't do much to promote the everyday look and lives of real gay women.

On a side note, a lesbian friend took me to a club in London once (I'm straight), and while the leatherjacketed/shorthaired 'butch' ladies were quite well represented, the rest of the crowd was a complete mix.

seanybiker

i know about the same amount of gay men as i know gay women. Seems to me that the women just wont wanna come out and tell people their gay for the sake of it. Most gay fellas i know told me by just talking to me and saying hey ya do know im gay. I was kinda like. Ya do know im straight but that has nothing to do with what we are talking about so why are ya telling me.

Monkey61

Personally find that there's a major stigma attached to being a gay girl as opposed to a gay man.

My biggest annoyance is people (I'm sorry but it's generally men) not taking it seriously at all. Can you imagine a random bloke approaching a straight couple in a pub and making lewd remarks to the man about what he would like to do to his girlfriend? Or seeing nothing wrong with propositioning them for a threesome? Not very likely is it. Imagine this happening pretty much every time your out.

I laugh it off, but when you think about it, it's really offensive cos it would never happen to a guy/girl couple.

cuckoo

GirlInterrupted wrote: »

The only lesbian representation on tv that I can think of is the ''L word'', which seems to contain only the stereotype of the uber attractive 'Lipstick lesbian', which doesn't do much to promote the everyday look and lives of real gay women.

Agreed, great tv show but it's not very everyday.

There was the british teenage tv program 'sugar rush' on channel 4 a while back, but that was a lot about coming out, and just being a teenager and figuring out what you are about. I can't think of an equivalent lesbian equivalent to 'queer as folk', a tv program about adult gay women, not about them being gay - just about them.

Are there any gay female characters in tv programs at the moment?

Permabear

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Pherekydes

Galvasean wrote: »

Interesting point by the OP. Maybe it's a case of openly gay men are more 'loud and proud' by nature (in general) while gay women are more reserved about it and harder to spot.

Agree with this. Gay men appear to be more attention whoreish, especially in the media.

Personally, I can't think of any gay guys in my extended circle of acquaintances, but I can think of 6 gay women straight off the top of my head, including my sister. None are butch and none are hot. They're just ordinary women. Although they are my sisters' friends I would also count them as friends too. I don't understand why it's a big deal any more.

Nevyn

donegalfella wrote: »

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I disagree, there is a lesbian scene and it's own culture but it is a lot more underground and not as high profile and harder to get into.

As for being butch and /or femme that is still a choice of personal expression and it was never a uniform.

brianthebard

Some of the responses on this thread make me lol. Its very clear that gay men have not been de-stigmatised, the general populace have just swapped some stereotypes for others. There's still an image to which they either conform or are considered oddballs from the looks of things. If that's the case then I think the longer lesbians can continue the stigma the op talks about the better, cause at the minute they appear to be some fuzzy, ill defined beings that most people can't get their heads around. If they become definable then that will only make them more two dimensional in societies eyes.

ellenmelon

donegalfella wrote: »

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I tend to disagree with you on your first point..yes, some gay men chose to livea very 'out' lifestyle which means they do some things that you specify but I wouldn't put all gay men into that category at all.

As for gender queer/butch/andro girls they are definately not a thing of the past..maybe not as many women identify in that way in Ireland? It's becoming less likely to see a "stereotype" of any flavour of queer person anyway. And if people want to adhere to a stereotype, who cares? Really.

As for the kissing thing..I actually find straight people kissing less acceptable, maybe because most places it's more acceptable for a guy and a girl kissing and seeing that all the time is..yeah. Not annoying, just...a non event? If I see two women or two men or two gender queer people kissing I'm happy they feel comfortable to do so. Because as I said, it's still a bit taboo in some places for that to happen.

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To answer the OP, generally there is still a stigma associated with female homosexuality especially if you identify as bisexual. This isn't helped by drunken girls pashing for the titilation of men, or Kate Perry etc. I've had conversations with people who think bisexuals are selfish or indecisive for being with men and women. As for being lesbian, there is a stigma from family/church/workplaces/some govt's with their legislation on adopting kids and the visiting rights if one partner is in hospital for example.

Nevyn

There is a lot of biphobia and intolerance out there from both sides of the fence tbh.

ellenmelon

Thaedydal wrote: »

There is a lot of biphobia and intolerance out there from both sides of the fence tbh.

Sometimes the worst of it can come from the gay community..unfortunately.

nomorebadtown

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y8utsY6LY

This type of nonsense doesn't help

cufroige

Deleted User wrote: »

BUT on a slightly off-the-topic thing, this thing of girls kissing other girls in public for attention (mainly from fellas) reeeally pisses me off. It's not a new phenomenon sparked by Kate Perry, it's been a past-time for immature muppets who crave attention by any means for quite a while, and it's tacky!!! There, I said it. Not that people kissing in public is tacky but people kissing simply to be titillating is tacky.

Madonna is also guilty of the above... Major attention seeking behaviour.. gimme a break..

Gay men are so much more 'visible' everywhere I've been..the women are harder to spot or are most of them living the life in some wonderful land we don't know about yet?:P

I've had both male & female relationships, or should I say had relationships with both Male & female.. I must say in my experience there's TONS of bi-curious women who are quite scared of exploring 'that' side....
Don't even get me started on the amount of drunk "bisexual" women out there!! Holy moly, I've been 'jumped' so many times in the jax in my local by (drunken) women you would never suspect were secretly dreamin bout lady lumps...lol.. Why do I keep getting jumped? Coz it's a small town & they 'know' I'm that way inclined, I can only guess.. Anyway, It's been interesting to say the least!! Oh, and of course did I mention they were drunk?

Most surprising jax episode was the local TD's wife who stuck her titties in my face!! Lol... and just for the record...no I didn't!!!

Dudess

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Nice to see the gay women don't lose their protensity to moan.

Propensity. How do you mean?

Gay wommins is sexy!

Butch gays wommins is not!

Gay women are gay women, including the butch ones, so shouldn't your first sentence be "hot gay wommins is sexy!"?

I might get pillored for this but generally fella's don't give a crap bout gay women as natural instinct is oh, kinky. But we are turned off/ scared by lebians with buzz aldrin haircuts and dogtags.

Gay women, well they the big scary butch skinhead.

Which is more acceptible to society at large. Lindsey Lohon might break this mould but she's not exactly, I'm Gay, I'm proud, is she.....just "I think it's fairly obvious, youknow wink wink" ****e.

And there's the answer - lesbians or "lesbians" who have a look that complies with heterosexual male fantasies are pretty much ALWAYS accepted, as well as celebrated. Non "hot", non "sexy" ones aren't. So it's not female homosexuality in general, it's the "type" of female homosexual.

Dragan

Dudess wrote: »

And there's the answer - lesbians or "lesbians" who have a look that complies with heterosexual male fantasies are pretty much ALWAYS accepted, as well as celebrated. Non "hot", non "sexy" ones aren't. So it's not female homosexuality in general, it's the "type" of female homosexual.

As already said most blokes seem perfectly accepting of girl on girl once they could see themselves doing either of those girls.

I begin to suspect an inability in a lot of men to remove themselves from a situation and look at in without having at least on of their feet planted firmly in their own viewpoint.

With regard to party lesbians kissing for attention, it's more than just a little bit sad truth be told. Don't get me wrong, if your curious then go for whatever it is that you want to explore, if you are doing it purely to catch someones eye then you should probably ask yourself why you need to whore yourself out just to get someones interest.