Anglo safe from Nationalisation?

davidod

What would cause a bank to be nationalised?

My understanding is it would be when they are unable to fund themselves either as a result of a run on their deposits or an inability to raise finance on the interbank money markets..............

Is this correct ?

If so does the presence of the Irish Government Guarantee enure the confidence of the wholesale markets (and therefore the solvency) of Anglo for instance ?

I must decalare an interest here I (regrettably) own Anglo shares.......

Idu

davidod wrote: »

What would cause a bank to be nationalised?

My understanding is it would be when they are unable to fund themselves either as a result of a run on their deposits or an inability to raise finance on the interbank money markets..............

Is this correct ?

If so does the presence of the Irish Government Guarantee enure the confidence of the wholesale markets (and therefore the solvency) of Anglo for instance ?

I must decalare an interest here I (regrettably) own Anglo shares.......

The government only guarantees customers deposits so it is no safe haven for the banks themselves

davidod

my point is that the g'tee of deposits avoids a run on the bank by depositors thus protecting the bank from a rapid and disastrous depletion of its deposit funding base

Idu

Now that people are seeing what they do with that deposit base personally I'd withdraw every penny I had in there, guarantee or not

Baird

davidod wrote: »

my point is that the g'tee of deposits avoids a run on the bank by depositors thus protecting the bank from a rapid and disastrous depletion of its deposit funding base

That is most certainly true.
It also helps massively in the money markets as the bank is backed by a
government guarantee in the money markets against a default so it can more
easily access short term money.
Problem is though that its not an issue surrounding short term money thats
hurting the banks, its their capital positions and how they are going to be
eroded by bad debts. If the bad debts spike high enough the banks will no
longer be able to function and will end up being nationalised

rugbyman

Baird,
For my info could you expand on this. I am not entirely certain whether the need for Nationalisation will be triggered by the bad debt spike or just by the Govt needing to step in to restore some calm.

Since a Northern Rock type run on the bank is not likely until some months before the Govt gaurantee on savings runs out, what do you see as the trigger.

My belief is that Anglo are not able to access inrter bank funds. they are offering high interest rates to entice in Cash for a year , to maintain liquidity.
They hope that calm of sorts can be restored in that year.

It seems to me that they need to push a few developers into bankruptcy, selecting perhaps the one of their clients with a high value, somewhat resaleable property,

Since their seems to be a considerable amount of tangled directors/shareholders/clients this may be difficult.

Baird

rugbyman wrote: »

Baird,
For my info could you expand on this. I am not entirely certain whether the need for Nationalisation will be triggered by the bad debt spike or just by the Govt needing to step in to restore some calm.
Since a Northern Rock type run on the bank is not likely until some months before the Govt gaurantee on savings runs out, what do you see as the trigger.

The PWC report on the bad debt book will be the trigger.
If that report shows the banks are lying about their bad debt exposure then
there will be action taken in some shape or form.

My belief is that Anglo are not able to access inrter bank funds. they are offering high interest rates to entice in Cash for a year , to maintain liquidity.
They hope that calm of sorts can be restored in that year.

Maybe true but you cant really say that unless you know it to be true.
Guessing and speculating about such things is completely pointless and
doesnt help you make a trading decision.

It seems to me that they need to push a few developers into bankruptcy, selecting perhaps the one of their clients with a high value, somewhat resaleable property,

Since their seems to be a considerable amount of tangled directors/shareholders/clients this may be difficult.

Maybe

DJDC

Lecture 1 Accountancy 101: Debt has seniority over Equity.

There's a high probability shareholders will get screwed like NR. What the hell are you still doing holding this toxic waste. You've had months to pull out of your position, all the warning signs were there.

woodseb

rugbyman wrote: »

It seems to me that they need to push a few developers into bankruptcy, selecting perhaps the one of their clients with a high value, somewhat resaleable property,
.

leaving aside the business implications of screwing over some of its better clients what exactly would this acheive

forcing bankruptcy sales would not improve liquidity and lead to more writedowns are assets are marked to market

NEDDURC

If the government said today that it was going to Nationalise Anglo what would happen?
Would they have to pay the shareholders something to take over a highly profitable bank?
Surely the board wouldn't just let the goverment take them over for nothing?

woodseb

NEDDURC wrote: »

Would they have to pay the shareholders something to take over a highly profitable bank?

No, it's profits are irrelevant given its potential liabilities

NEDDURC wrote: »

Surely the board wouldn't just let the goverment take them over for nothing?

Yes, they would have no choice

NEDDURC

If I were the government I would certainly be in there to take it over so, they have approx 2bn in the bank - potential liabilities are only potential and with inerest rates decreasing then they should be easier for borrowers to pay back and not go bad.

The board surely have to act in the interest of the shareholders and the last option for them would be to nationalise and wipe out share value. Why would they agree to this if they are still trading profitably?

I predict PWC will find nothing as they did with the capital report. It's very difficult to say that a debt is bad. I presume they've already written off anything overdue so I'd say they are well covered on their bad debts

woodseb

NEDDURC wrote: »

inerest rates decreasing then they should be easier for borrowers to pay back and not go bad......
I presume they've already written off anything overdue so I'd say they are well covered on their bad debts

i presume you're a shareholder in anglo. I'm not going to dance over your grave in terms of the losses you've had but i think you need to start appreciating the reality of anglo's problems

Glacier

What exactly would it mean for share prices if it was Nationalised? Does that mean once the Government takes over the share value becomes worthless & they start over, what? Sorry for my extreme ignorance, I was just wondering

Danimalito

Glacier wrote: »

What exactly would it mean for share prices if it was Nationalised? Does that mean once the Government takes over the share value becomes worthless & they start over, what? Sorry for my extreme ignorance, I was just wondering

If an irish bank gets nationalised, the likely scenario is that existing shareholders would recieve little to no compensation.

Baird

Glacier wrote: »

What exactly would it mean for share prices if it was Nationalised? Does that mean once the Government takes over the share value becomes worthless & they start over, what? Sorry for my extreme ignorance, I was just wondering

IF the bank is fully nationalised then the shares become completely worthless
with no chance of them ever becomming worth something again.

Glacier

And what then, would the bank start off with a new share price? This won't happen to AIB or BOI though, really will it?

Baird

Glacier wrote: »

And what then, would the bank start off with a new share price? This won't happen to AIB or BOI though, really will it?

The bank would no longer be floated on the stock exchange and would be
owned soley by the Gov
AIB and BOI have a much much smaller risk of being fully nationlised but there is
still a risk hence their current share prices.

Baird

From todays Irish Times

CIARAN HANCOCK, SIMON CARSWELL, COLM KEENA and ARTHUR BEESLEY

THE STATE is set to become the majority shareholder in Anglo Irish Bank as intensive negotiations continue this weekend on an injection of €3 billion into the bank.

It is also expected that the bank's remaining directors will resign as part of the capital injection. The bank's new chairman, Donal O'Connor, will continue in office, with the Government expected to appoint new directors.

Anglo Irish's chief executive David Drumm quit shortly after midday yesterday, 15 hours after the bank's chairman, Seán FitzPatrick, resigned following revelations that he had transferred €87 million in loans in and out of the bank each year over an eight-year period until September 2007 to avoid publicly disclosing the loans.

The Financial Regulator is now investigating the €150 million in loans to directors of Anglo outstanding at the end of September. It is also looking at whether similar loan transfers took place at the other six guaranteed Irish banks and building societies.

A meeting of the regulator's board, which began at 4pm yesterday, continued late last night, with the spokesman saying no statement would be issued.

Director of Corporate Enforcement Paul Appleby said: "We are looking at it. It is certainly not clear at the moment whether any law has been broken." He could not comment further until "we are in possession of the facts".

A spokesman for Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan said: "The chairman of the Irish Financial Services Regulatory Authority has advised the Minister that the board is examining the issues raised by the disclosures of the former chairman of Anglo Irish Bank."

Sources said there was "unease and concern" within the Government that the regulator had known about Mr FitzPatrick's loans for some time and that the Government had not.

Shares in the bank closed at 35 cent last night, valuing it at a mere €266 million. The Government is pressing for an agreement to be reached in principle on the recapitalisation of Anglo this weekend, and possibly AIB and Bank of Ireland, though the focus is on a deal for Anglo.

Government officials hope that they can release a statement on the deal for Anglo and a wider recapitalisation before the stock market opens on Monday.

The Government is not keen to fully nationalise Anglo and intends to offer existing shareholders the opportunity to participate in the new investment, so their interests are not completely diluted.

In a statement following his resignation, Mr Drumm said that it was "undoubtedly in the best interests of Anglo that a new chief executive is appointed".

Tentative approaches have been made through headhunters to senior bankers, including Mark Duffy, chief executive of Halifax-Bank of Scotland (Ireland), in a bid to find a replacement for Mr Drumm.

A spokesman for the bank's auditors, Ernst Young, would not comment on the issue but a source said the firm did not know about the controversial loans.

Separately, The Irish Times understands that Mr FitzPatrick moved personal funds from Anglo to Bank of Ireland in advance of the Government's emergency decision in September to guarantee deposits and debts at the Irish-owned banks.

pocketdooz

Glacier wrote: »

And what then, would the bank start off with a new share price? This won't happen to AIB or BOI though, really will it?

It would not have a new share price as it would be no longer be a public company. It would be government-owned. It's public equity would (will) be virtually non-existent.

ballinasloe1

Hi I´m new on this forum. I recently bought 4,000 shares in Anglo at 33c and have a few questions that maybe one of you can shed some light on. Thanks in advance for any help.

From the article in the irish times today as above, it sounds like a partial nationalisation will occur, does this mean the company will remain on the stock market in this case?

If it remains on the stock market are the prices likely to rise, as when the 10 billion package was announced last week the price jumped 40% to 44c before retreating back, so it seems to have a postive effect. I understand the goverments involvement dilutes the shares but from the real value, not the current underestimated value (my opinion of course). I realize its all spectculation at present but it would be interesting at least to hear your views.

Mikel

ballinasloe1 wrote: »

From the article in the irish times today as above, it sounds like a partial nationalisation will occur, does this mean the company will remain on the stock market in this case?

If it remains on the stock market are the prices likely to rise, as when the 10 billion package was announced last week the price jumped 40% to 44c before retreating back, so it seems to have a postive effect. I understand the goverments involvement dilutes the shares but from the real value, not the current underestimated value (my opinion of course). I realize its all spectculation at present but it would be interesting at least to hear your views.

My view is that you should understand these things BEFORE you buy shares.
What was your rationale for buying at 33c?

I understand the goverments involvement dilutes the shares but from the real value, not the current underestimated value (my opinion of course)

This sentence makes no sense.

I could understand someone putting a trade on because they have a view on the likelihood of nationalisation, or what kind of bailout will be put together.
But you don't even know if the shares will still be listed if the Gov buys a stake, yet you have a punt anyway

ballinasloe1

My view was based on what I mentioned before as when the capitalisation plan was released last week the shares climbed by 40%

So when the more detailed plan is to be released before the stock market opens tomorrow I gambled at the fact that the shares will follow a similar trade. I used money that I was prepared to lose just like if I had a bet at the races.

If its fully nationalized I realize that the shares are then non-existent, and for partial nationalisation they will I presume be diluted in value, yet I view the share price currently to be underestimated in value. A company with pre-tax profits of €784m with a market value of around 250 million is an imbalance in my opinion. I realize the likelhood of bad debts could cripple the company yet I choose to take the risk.

I don`t pretend to have a thorough understanding of the situation just wanted to hear how people view the shareprice trend after the news of a partial nationalistation plan. This forum was established for that very reason to start with so people can enlighten others with their knowledge and viewpoints. If you don`t have a view well please don`t bother writing back and go annoy someone else.

davidod

Mikel putting other people down like that is not necessary....:(

Idu

davidod wrote: »

Mikel putting other people down like that is not necessary....:(

would you say it was foolish of someone to put a bet on West Brom to win the premiership with no previous knowledge just because their price was 10000-1?

Im sure if you heard about someone who did that you would laugh at them and frankly I cant see any harsh comment in Mikel's post. Frankly its ridiculous the amount of people who have taken a punt on bank shares recently with no knowledge of what effects any news will have on the stock and come on here looking for reassurance and when they dont get it they get catty is ridiculous

ballinasloe1

Ah I did`nt come on here looking for assurances as I said it was money I`m prepared to lose, just other peoples views on this, are you against people taking a punt on the stock market or do we all need a masters in international finance? Again as in most forums the orginal point has gotten away from the question in hand as someone who thinks they are above some questions here they read just HAVE to have a go, god forbid being a little constructive.

As I said I was following a pattern in the shares in the last few weeks as they have risen by between by 30 - 50% on three different occasions in the last week, hardly a 10,000 - 1 shot that it may happen again so get your head put of your arse. They closed up 10% in late trading on Friday to stand at 35c from being a lowly 19c during the day. Anyone including yourself I guess would see fast action would have brought about a profit. Its not always about knowing every last detail possible. BTW I had well researched the background on this before just wanted to know what other people thought. I was honest about my position straight away to be as transparent as possible.

Christ - nice way to be welcomed on the forum LOL.

ballinasloe1

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/state-pumps-83646bn-into-top-three-irish-banks-1582417.html

Going back to orginal point, and including the story todays sunday independent from above that the goverment have paid a billion for a 75% stake in a company worth 250 million. Does this mean that the bank market vaule is now 1.25 billion? If this is the case the share price should come out on Monday at around 1.50 euro.

rugbyman

Welcome to the forum BALLINASLOE1.

Your pieces are well written. I think you will make a considerable percentage profit.

there are half a dozen posters on here who generally query the reasons for people buying shares or for asking for advice on buying shares. Not many give their opinion on the likely direction of the share price

All shades of opinion make for good debates.

Regards,Rugbyman

woodseb

ballinasloe1 wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/state-pumps-83646bn-into-top-three-irish-banks-1582417.html

Going back to orginal point, and including the story todays sunday independent from above that the goverment have paid a billion for a 75% stake in a company worth 250 million. Does this mean that the bank market vaule is now 1.25 billion? If this is the case the share price should come out on Monday at around 1.50 euro.

No, to say that they are paying a billion for the stake is not correct. they are injecting the money through an issue of new shares and the capital raised goes on to the balance sheet. as a shareholder the issue of another 75% of new shares dilutes your shareholding as your proportional call on the equity is reduced. Whether the injection of new equity funds balances this out and how much of this is already in the price of the shares is not known, but you can be reasonably sure it won't rise by 500% on monday morning

Sindo: €1bn injection into Anglo Irish Bank in return for which the Government will get a 75 per cent stake. Anglo is the worst hit of the banks with its share price collapsing. to 35¢. On the face of it, the State is paying over the odds for its stake, as Anglo is worth just €265m at current share prices.

this is a joke of a comment from a national newspaper that are supposed to have qualified financial journalists - but that's the sindo for you

ballinasloe1

Thanks rugyman and woodseb for sheding some light on my queries.

Very much appreciated.

Idu

ballinasloe1 wrote: »

Ah I did`nt come on here looking for assurances as I said it was money I`m prepared to lose, just other peoples views on this, are you against people taking a punt on the stock market or do we all need a masters in international finance? Again as in most forums the orginal point has gotten away from the question in hand as someone who thinks they are above some questions here they read just HAVE to have a go, god forbid being a little constructive.

As I said I was following a pattern in the shares in the last few weeks as they have risen by between by 30 - 50% on three different occasions in the last week, hardly a 10,000 - 1 shot that it may happen again so get your head put of your arse. They closed up 10% in late trading on Friday to stand at 35c from being a lowly 19c during the day. Any fool including yourself I guess would see fast action would have brought about a profit. Its not always about knowing every last detail possible. BTW I had well researched the background on this before just wanted to know what other people thought. I was honest about my position straight away to be as transparent as possible.

Christ - nice way to be welcomed on the forum LOL.

I am 100% against taking a punt on the stock market. As I said if you want to take a punt on something try the bookies. You get better odds

Your pattern also ignores that these three rises you mention have all been followed by losses that have exceeded those gains or at least retraced to their original position.

Do I think its possible to make money in this madness? Yes of course i do but you either need to be really lucky or really really adept at timing the market and i know very few people who are the second one

Good luck with it though. I have never, or will never want to see anyone losing money to these markets but I'm sure you can understand that these conversations have been going on since June and without trying to sound condescending the best advice is usually from those people with financial backgrounds who have experience within the markets but we usually end up being called naysayers or doom mongers etc etc. It gets frustrating. I presume when you came on looking for opinions you wanted the opinions of people in the know otherwise you could just tune in to Joe Duffy. Sorry to rant there and its not aimed at you specifically anyway

Bob Hope

So can any of you knowlegeable folk please answer Balliansloes question which is "how do you view the shareprice trend after the news of a partial nationalistation plan?".

Mikel?

Compak

Here are my points.

1) 1 billion investment, hardly enough for the sham that is the current Anglo. If AIB need 2 plus billion anglo definately do. So what hapeens in a few months even weeks. Another billion for what?

2) Lets cop on for a second slashing anyone buying anglo. They are crap at the moment due to market sentiment and fear. Yes their portfolio is high risk but they are not all going to be defaulted and not all in the one day which is what market has accounted for.

So we have a bank that the government wont let fail. Not a chance invest a billion then when it needs more let it sink. Also it would cause mad panic as I for one like many will withdraw every cent I have in every bank to show I dont trust the government for a second.
what I hope is that its a loan and the government allow Anglo to buy back their holding.

So now with a secure bank, brand new management and when the property market levels I ask anyone to give a reason why Anglo can not reach new adjusted heights of up to 5euro plus in 3 plus years time. A 70% reduction on previous highs never to be obtained again but a possible 20 fold return for someone who went long last week?

Idu

IMO they will go lower or stay in and around the same levels they are at. How much of this nationalisation is already priced in who knows. I personally dont see them rising much in the next few weeks until everyone knows the true extend of what the nationalisation is.

Compak

Bob Hope wrote: »

So can any of you knowlegeable folk please answer Balliansloes question which is "how do you view the shareprice trend after the news of a partial nationalistation plan?".

Mikel?

well Anglo has 760 million shares in issue.
the government is putting in 1 billion for 608 million shares.

So new shares in issue of 1368 million with a new theoretical market cap of 1.25 billion currently values anglo at 91cent a share. However if we hit 50c tomorrow we would be doing well Id say.

Lets be honest no one knows how the market reacts.

For all I know the market could say 1 billion is not enough. We will need more money the gov will prob take full ownership then and sp could drop. Thats what i fear and early rises could easily be lost.

Compak

Compak wrote: »

well Anglo has 760 million shares in issue.
the government is putting in 1 billion for 608 million shares.

So new shares in issue of 1368 million with a new theoretical market cap of 1.25 billion currently values anglo at 91cent a share. However if we hit 50c tomorrow we would be doing well Id say.

act thats wrong. Gov is taking 80% stake so current cap of 760million is now 20%. So gov getting 3 billion shares for 1 billion euro. So company has a vlauation of about 30c a share. Ie shareholders getting totally shafted and for other worries as well no reason why sp wont be at 20c

Villain

Have the details been announced yet?

3 billion into BOI, any opinions on what that will do to the share price?

pocketdooz

This forum is going from bad to worse. Really, it's gone from being laughable to just being scary. I wish I had the kind of money some people on here have that they can afford to buy the equity and risk of somehthing they don't understand with the justification that they 'are willing to lose the money' or are 'just having a punt'. IMO they should all start their own thread comparing punts on Irish banks they don't understand and keep it out of all the other threads. Its ruining this forum.

NEDDURC

pocketdooz - ok so we all aren't up to your level of intelegency so you tell us what's going to happen?
The fact is nobody still knows exact details of what's going to happen or how the market will react but it's not a stupid thing to say that you think the share price will recover somewhat.
Surely if the goverment invest 1bn in Aglo it'll be for preference shares which won't dilute the ordinary shares but will affect future dividends as these preference shares will have to be paid first.

woodseb

NEDDURC wrote: »

Surely if the goverment invest 1bn in Aglo it'll be for preference shares which won't dilute the ordinary shares but will affect future dividends as these preference shares will have to be paid first.

going by the reports they are investing common equity, an injection of 1bln in pref shares would effectively dilute the ords anyway

Compak

So confirmed.

1.5 billion 75%. They paid about 65c a share for preference shares of 10% dividend.

So current theoretical market value is 58 cent a share.

However this is not real as market will react to how it sees this as the government has now 75%voting rights ie nationalisation and could go any way.

Compak

nice deal for bank of ireland though, who should definately rise tomorrow one would think

pocketdooz

NEDDURC wrote: »

pocketdooz - ok so we all aren't up to your level of intelegency so you tell us what's going to happen?
The fact is nobody still knows exact details of what's going to happen or how the market will react but it's not a stupid thing to say that you think the share price will recover somewhat.
Surely if the goverment invest 1bn in Aglo it'll be for preference shares which won't dilute the ordinary shares but will affect future dividends as these preference shares will have to be paid first.

This has nothing to do with anyone's level of 'intelegency' (?) - Yes, it is totally stupid to invest in the common equity of an Irish bank without knowing what re-cap etc. will mean for the bank.

Totally stupid - no matter how you choose to sugarcoat it.

Bytheway

Compak wrote: »

So confirmed.

1.5 billion 75%. They paid about 65c a share for preference shares of 10% dividend.

So current theoretical market value is 58 cent a share.

However this is not real as market will react to how it sees this as the government has now 75%voting rights ie nationalisation and could go any way.

As far as i can see, this has to be a good thing and indeed very necessary (Anglo Irish). But 75% doesn't mean nationalization ? It means they are a majority share holder, does it not !
To be honest i don't see how investing in BOI or AIB is any different from people investing in the likes of Taylor Wimpey, Bateman Litwin or Falkland based oil companies. All are a gamble, some more than others, granted there are more knowns in the later 3 choices(gearing,eps,..........debt but all in all its a measured gamble. Granted people are taking a punt at the banks but in fairness those who have not sinned cast the first stone.
I mean, lets stop the judging For the people that know better, good for you. For the people that gamble, good luck.
Just so you know I'm going to kick all your asses in the stock fantasy league. :cool:
Bring it on.
Happy Christmas

Danimalito

Bytheway wrote: »

To be honest i don't see how investing in BOI or AIB is any different from people investing in the likes of Taylor Wimpey, Bateman Litwin or Falkland based oil companies. All are a gamble, some more than others, granted there are more knowns in the later 3 choices(gearing,eps,..........debt but all in all its a measured gamble.

that's not so much investment that you're on about, that's speculation.

There are plenty of companies out there with sound fundamentals, good products, p/e ratio in the single digits etc. that look like better investments than mostly anything in the financial sector at the moment

If you're doing speculation, you'd want a much better knowledge of the financial instrument which you're trading compared to your average investor.

Compak

Bytheway wrote: »

As far as i can see, this has to be a good thing and indeed very necessary (Anglo Irish). But 75% doesn't mean nationalization ?

Thats true. i just said it as government now make all decisions. It cracks me up all those who gave out to people who invested.
Gamble gamble nonsense. If people done full research, of pension contributions, pension reserves, Banks books, equity reserve, jobs etc they would of known that they would not of failed.
This is why I have bought and sold Ford, GM, AIG, citibank and not lehman (that was just an instinct guess). I hold all 3 irish banks and hols them long except the Anglo and BOI I bought last week,
Because the same reasons I bought long weeks ago were maintained last week.
I could just as eaily slag all ye buying oil companies. No reason in the world oil wont drop another 50%.

Compak

As far as I am concerned the only low risk companies out there are pharmaceutical blue chips. Anything else anything could happen

Bytheway

Danimalito wrote: »

that's not so much investment that you're on about, that's speculation.

There are plenty of companies out there with sound fundamentals, good products, p/e ratio in the single digits etc. that look like better investments than mostly anything in the financial sector at the moment

If you're doing speculation, you'd want a much better knowledge of the financial instrument which you're trading compared to your average investor.

Ya i totally agree, it is speculation. But to be honest, this is the first time that many would have been acquainted with Recap, Nationalization and Recession on our own doorstep. I have learned a huge amount from all the excellent posts.
Thank you
But would people not consider AVIVA to be one to watch. We cant class all the financial as underdogs...........can we.
But tomorrow will speak volumes for Anglo. But did the recap in England work ? It didn't appear so ! or can we class the two as similar?

ixus

Thank God for that, now I can get myself a 100% mortgage, get that lovely 3 bed townhouse in Adamstown, sell it on at a little profit in a few years when the family get too big for it. Probably get myself a nice 3 series Msport too.

I thought Christmas was going to be a bummer and, I was just about to change my ways. Start being a bit more prudent with my(banks)cash, you know. But, sure now they'll be falling over themselves to lend again. And, sure if they're going to profit off me, I might as well profit from them by buying a few K's worth of shares for when the banks return to profit. Might even take a loan out & leverage it up. That way, it'll be free money.

Sorted!

Time Magazine

ixus wrote: »

lovely 3 bed townhouse in Adamstown

I knew you were being sarcastic from here.

stepbar

Bytheway wrote: »

Ya i totally agree, it is speculation. But to be honest, this is the first time that many would have been acquainted with Recap, Nationalization and Recession on our own doorstep. I have learned a huge amount from all the excellent posts.
Thank you
But would people not consider AVIVA to be one to watch. We cant class all the financial as underdogs...........can we.
But tomorrow will speak volumes for Anglo. But did the recap in England work ? It didn't appear so ! or can we class the two as similar?

My dad got free shares in AVIVA many years ago. I've stopped looking at how much they're worth......