The Cruiser

mike65

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/1218/breaking92.htm

Former minister and journalist Conor Cruise O'Brien dies
MARK HENNESSY, Political Correspondent

The death has taken place of the former Cabinet minister and journalist, Conor Cruise O'Brien, who as Minister for Posts and Telegraph during the Fine Gael/Labour coalition in the 1970s.

Born in Dublin in 1917, Mr Cruise O'Brien was one of the leading intellectual lights of the Labour Party during the 1960s, following a career as a civil servant in the Department of Finance and later the Department of External Affairs.

He later joined the United Nations and attracted the attention of leading figures there, before he was given a key in the organisation's difficult operation in the Congo in 1960 and 1961 by the then UN Secretary-General, Dag Hammarksjold.

He developed a successful academic career later before returning to Ireland, where he became a leading player in the Labour Party in the late 1960s alongside counterparts such as David Thornley and Justin Keating.

Expressing condolences, Taoiseach Brian Cowen said Mr Cruise O'Brien had been "a leading figure in Irish life in many spheres since the 1960s", displaying a wide array of talents in politics, academia and journalism.

A divisive and important figure in many spheres. No doubt the media and political classes will be raking over his legacy for the rest of the week.

eigrod

R.I.P.

RIP.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1218/obrienc.html

He became a bit of a unionist in later years

Sponge Bob

Pity he didn't kick the bucket 40 years ago

oscarBravo

mike65 wrote: »

No doubt the media and political classes will be raking over his legacy for the rest of the week.

...nay, years.

RIP.

P. Breathnach

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Pity he didn't kick the bucket 40 years ago

That is an obnoxious post.

Sponge Bob

I believe that he was an obnoxious person, prove me wrong if you can !

TOMASJ

I thought that old fart was dead years ago, cant say Ill loss any sleep over him and his type, with that superior arrogant attitude.

RoundyMooney

RIP.

I was no fan of the man, or his beliefs, but he led a long, eventful and far more fruitful and illustrious life than many of his detractors, myself included, can aspire to.

baldbear

wasn't he fan of King Billy? R.IP

luckat

I'm shocked at the cruel posts here. Conor Cruise O'Brien's family may well be reading these posts at some stage, and be devastated by these nasty, ignorant, mannerless comments.

He was a Labour man when that meant something. I disagree with his stance on censorship of Sinn Féinn, and with his later flirtation with unionism, but he was someone who worked for his country - and for working people - in harder times than these.

(Incidentally, the standard of journalism in the first reports of his death is kind of sad. His daughter Margaret appears to have been forgotten - she's not mentioned as surviving him; and his play King Herod Explains is expressed as King Herald Explains.

Nodin

Deleted User wrote: »

RIP.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1218/obrienc.html

He became a bit of a unionist in later years

Well, many said he just decided he might as well go full time.

He became almost hysterical towards the end of his career, spouting tabloidesque doomsaying prophecies. I don't go in for Grave dancing however. Suffice to say I was not an admirer.

blinding

Deleted User wrote: »

RIP.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1218/obrienc.html

He became a bit of a unionist in later years

And then he wanted the unionists to join a united Ireland.

To which one can only say he got their in the end but why did it take so long for him to work it out.

mountainyman

If we can't discuss his impact on Irish life why post the message here? Fortunately for Cruise O'Brien God is merciful.

mike65

One shouldn't forget his contribution to 'pop culture' when he coined a term that described a particular notorious event but which came to sum up a whole era of Fianna Fail shenannigans.

GUBU

blinding

Would "THE GAGGER" not have been a more suitable title for this thread.

For the younger members this would be a reference to "the cruiser" gagging his political opponents and media when he was in power.

silverharp

If below gives an indication of what what going on in the man's head then he was hardly to be taken seriously as political commentator


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conor_Cruise_O%27Brien

He was a long time columnist for the Sunday Independent and his articles have been distinguished by hostility to the peace process in Northern Ireland, regular predictions of civil war in the Republic of Ireland and an openly pro-Unionist stance. In 1997, a libel action was brought against him by relatives of Bloody Sunday victims for alleging in one article that the marchers were "Sinn Féin activists operating for the IRA".[7]

Mad Finn

luckat wrote: »

(Incidentally, the standard of journalism in the first reports of his death is kind of sad. His daughter Margaret appears to have been forgotten - she's not mentioned as surviving him

He didn't have a daughter called Margaret, AFAIK.

He had a daughter called Kate, who sadly predeceased him by about 10 years.

bmaxi

mike65 wrote: »

One shouldn't forget his contribution to 'pop culture' when he coined a term that described a particular notorious event but which came to sum up a whole era of Fianna Fail shenannigans.

GUBU

You would appear to be suggesting that the era of "FF shenanigans" was somewhere in the dim and murky past.

O'Brien was the epitome of the phrase "there's a thin line between genius and madness," he was quite brilliant in many aspects but, especially later in his career, the balance occasionally tipped.

LordSutch

Conor Cruise O'Brien R.I.P

Erin Go Brath

The Cruiser will not be missed by nationalist Ireland i think its fair to say. He will be regarded by many as a traitor to the nation. However as much as i disagree with everything about the man especially his introduction of Section 31, i offer condolences to his family at this time for their loss.

RedPlanet

Good riddance.

baldykelly

Dr. Conor Cruise O'Brien was a man of huge courage and determination. Many Irish 'nationalists' may not have agreed with his political thinking and teaching, yet on numerous occasions he spoke the truth when everyone else was content to jump on the nationalists bandwagon and condem Northern unionists as some how an alien people - when the opposite was the actual reality.

May he rest in peace.

His place in the annals of Irish history can not be contested.

Nodin

baldykelly wrote: »

His place in the annals of Irish history can not be contested.

Along with CJ Haughey, Liam Lawlor, Shan Mohangi......

fryup

why oh why are the irish so clanish???

the man was only trying to open our eyes to the atrocities carried out by the provos instead of having our heads stuck in the sand all the time...is that a crime??.....or are most irish people closet provos???

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

mike65

fryup wrote: »

or are most irish people closet provos???

"Sneaking regarders" were one of O'Briens primary targets, those who didn't mind too much when civilians were killed in car bombs in England but tut-tuted in polite company at same.

Erin Go Brath

mike65 wrote: »

"Sneaking regarders" were one of O'Briens primary targets, those who didn't mind too much when civilians were killed in car bombs in England but tut-tuted in polite company at same.

Indeed he was behind Section 31 to shut up irish nationalists from voicing their opinions. Yet he had no problem ignoring the many murders of Irish people by British Security forces, he even joined the racist anti-Irish UK Unionist Party at one stage. Ergo he is seen as a traitor to the Irish nation!

P. Breathnach

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

...Ergo he is seen as a traitor to the Irish nation!

You mean the non-unionist component of the Irish nation.

Erin Go Brath

P. Breathnach wrote: »

You mean the non-unionist component of the Irish nation.

No.. i mean the most extreme anti-Irish party he could have joined. If he joined the DUP it wouldn't even be as bad but he joined the party with the most bigotted anti-Irish philosophy that there was. Hardly the actions of a patriot now is it?

fryup

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Hardly the actions of a patriot now is it?

he never claimed to be a patriot...just a man who was willing to listen to people of a different political persuasion...instead of bombing them

Erin Go Brath

fryup wrote: »

he never claimed to be a patriot...just a man who was willing to listen to people of a different political persuasion...instead of bombing them

He was a man who was prepared to use draconian legislation to silence his political opponents. He was apart from being unpatriotic, also an inherently undemocratic person.

P. Breathnach

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

No.. i mean the most extreme anti-Irish party he could have joined. If he joined the DUP it wouldn't even be as bad but he joined the party with the most bigotted anti-Irish philosophy that there was. Hardly the actions of a patriot now is it?

Have you no sense of irony?

Patriotism is bigotry given a name that some people think to be acceptable. [So too is loyalism, along with a few other -isms.]

TOMASJ

luckat wrote: »

I'm shocked at the cruel posts here. Conor Cruise O'Brien's family may well be reading these posts at some stage, and be devastated by these nasty, ignorant, mannerless comments.

Hope "you" were shocked by the views he had about those murdered on Bloody Sunday

fryup

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

an inherently undemocratic person.

oh i see now i get it...

so it was sinn fein and the provos who were democrats all along....blowing people up, knee capping them, shooting people in the back of the head if they opposed them...ah yes its very clear to me now:rolleyes:

Erin Go Brath

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Have you no sense of irony?

Patriotism is bigotry given a name that some people think to be acceptable. [So too is loyalism, along with a few other -isms.]

Incorrect! Patriotism is a love of ones country, bigotry is hatred or prejuidce. CCOB joined an organisation that was prejuiced against his own nation and whose policy was to have part of the Irish nation ruled completely by another nation without any input or involvement from his own nation.

Nodin

fryup wrote: »

he never claimed to be a patriot...just a man who was willing to listen to people of a different political persuasion

.....of one political persuasion, but entirely hostile to others. Had he engaged in a more meaningful way with the nationalist community, he might have helped bring peace about decades earlier. Instead he was a naysayer, and as much an obstacle to resolution as the most irreconciable Unionist or Nationalist.

fryup

Nodin wrote: »

.....of one political persuasion, but entirely hostile to others. Had he engaged in a more meaningful way with the nationalist community, he might have helped bring peace about decades earlier. Instead he was a naysayer, and as much an obstacle to resolution as the most irreconciable Unionist or Nationalist.

hostile?? get real will you.......just because he had differences with them doesn't mean he was hostile to them.......anyway he did'nt have enough influence to bring bring about peace in the north...the only ones who could have done that were the provos ...as in 94 with the ceasefire

Erin Go Brath

fryup wrote: »

oh i see now i get it...

so it was sinn fein and the provos who were democrats all along....blowing people up, knee capping them, shooting people in the back of the head if they opposed them...ah yes its very clear to me now:rolleyes:

In the face of sectarianism, gerrymandering, jobs and housing discrimination, police and security forces in collusion with loyalist terrorists, and a state which was truly a protestant state for a protestant people which undermined and conspired against Catholics at every opportunity will inevitable spring revolution. If you kick a dog enough, eventually it will have enough and turn around and bite you! Your selective nitpicking of the provos campaign doesn't come close to acknowledging the reality of life in the 6 Counties and what caused the people to do what they did! Incredible how some people allow one of the most undemocratic Govts of all time off the hook so lightly!

stovelid

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Incorrect! Patriotism is a love of ones country, bigotry is hatred or prejuidce. .

Funny how they both end up with dead bodies though, isn't it?

interlocked

Do you remeber when O'Brien used to be given free reign in the leader page of the Irish Indo every Saturday, i thought for a long while that it was a satirical piece until I realised that the guy was deadly serious and that lack of self regard wasn't one of his failings.

Some of the more memorable outbursts included

Netanyahu (who of course was lauded as a shoo to be next Israeli prime minister) was a very good friend of his, and upon appointment he was expected to send a plane for the cruiser in order that the Cruisers plan to pacify the middle east could be enacted. Netanyahu didn't get the job.

The Irish army were so discomfited at the attitude of the govt parties engaged in talks in NI that he was expecting them to launch a coup d'etat unless the govt withdrew their horns (I'd say that sent the cornflakes spluttering across the table in the Curragh)

The peace process in the North was NEVER going to work as the two sides were irreconcilable and anyway Sinn Fein were the spawn of Satan and that Bob McCartney(another good friend) was the only saviour of Norn Iron. This line was propounded as infalliable gospel

And loads more knockabout stuff. The most amazing thing was that the best selling broadsheet in the country thought that giving the ranting of the old coot such prominence was legitimate analysis.

I thought he was a pompous bollix when he was alive, the fact that he died doesn't change that opinion.

fryup

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

In the face of sectarianism, gerrymandering, jobs and housing discrimination, police and security forces in collusion with loyalist terrorists, and a state which was truly a protestant state for a protestant people which undermined and conspired against Catholics at every opportunity will inevitable spring revolution. If you kick a dog enough, eventually it will have enough and turn around and bite you! Your selective nitpicking of the provos campaign doesn't come close to acknowledging the reality of life in the 6 Counties and what caused the people to do what they did! Incredible how some people allow one of the most undemocratic Govts of all time off the hook so lightly!

the british made the mistake of not having direst rule from day one instead of giving the unionists carte blanche

you say the north was sectarian state....but so was the republic...the republic was a catholic country for catholic people
look at the way the protestant & jewish communites were driven out ..nobody had the morale upper hand in irish politics

TOMASJ

Here we go again, Republicans were wrong for having the audacity to want a united country, and anyone who opposed them was a knight in shining armour,
same old same old on this board.
Thing is if their had been no Republicans, there would be no 26 counties,

José Alaninho

fryup wrote: »

the british made the mistake of not having direst rule from day one instead of giving the unionists carte blanche

So the rule of the Six Counties by a foreign government would have been far better than the rule they had by the unionist élite, who were after all merely representatives and defenders of British power in Ireland? Oh, and the marvelous job done by the direct-rule government in lets say, internment 1971, Bloody Sunday, the inhuman conditions of the H-Blocks, the shoot-to-kill policy of the SAS death squads, British army / MI5 collusion with loyalist murderers, etc, etc.... Oh, yes, London should have had the job from day one. Would have saved the RUC all the bother by getting the British army to do their dirty work for them.

Disgusting attitude to have IMO.

Oh, and before I forget - Conor Cruise O'Brien: good riddance.

destroyer

interlocked wrote: »

Do you remeber when O'Brien used to be given free reign in the leader page of the Irish Indo every Saturday, i thought for a long while that it was a satirical piece until I realised that the guy was deadly serious and that lack of self regard wasn't one of his failings.

Some of the more memorable outbursts included

Netanyahu (who of course was lauded as a shoo to be next Israeli prime minister) was a very good friend of his, and upon appointment he was expected to send a plane for the cruiser in order that the Cruisers plan to pacify the middle east could be enacted. Netanyahu didn't get the job.

The Irish army were so discomfited at the attitude of the govt parties engaged in talks in NI that he was expecting them to launch a coup d'etat unless the govt withdrew their horns (I'd say that sent the cornflakes spluttering across the table in the Curragh)

The peace process in the North was NEVER going to work as the two sides were irreconcilable and anyway Sinn Fein were the spawn of Satan and that Bob McCartney(another good friend) was the only saviour of Norn Iron. This line was propounded as infalliable gospel

And loads more knockabout stuff. The most amazing thing was that the best selling broadsheet in the country thought that giving the ranting of the old coot such prominence was legitimate analysis.

I thought he was a pompous bollix when he was alive, the fact that he died doesn't change that opinion.

Here here ,The trouble with CCOB was that he thought all his opinions were infallible gospel and had to be drummed into us week after week coz we were a bit thick (unlike him). It nearly killed him when the peace process started to work.

fryup

José Alaninho wrote: »

So the rule of the Six Counties by a foreign government would have been far better than the rule they had by the unionist élite, who were after all merely representatives and defenders of British power in Ireland?

if there was direct rule esp under a labour govt...we would'nt have had the discimination and gerrymaundering that led to the troubles


and as for shoot to kill........

what about the provos...did they shoot to tickle??..afterall it was them who said there was a war on in the north

P. Breathnach

TOMASJ wrote: »

Thing is if their had been no Republicans, there would be no 26 counties,

You mean the republicans brought about partition? How unpatriotic.

oscarBravo

This thread is about Conor Cruise O'Brien. Keep it on topic.

P. Breathnach

oscarBravo wrote: »

This thread is about Conor Cruise O'Brien. Keep it on topic.

I'd be happy if you cleaned out off-topic contributions and, I would hope, the intemperate posts expressing hatred and nothing else.

A Dub in Glasgo

He came across as a total nut case and bigot in his actions and his writings. His innate ramblings in the Indo/Sindo should be preserved as comedy gold.

TOMASJ

P. Breathnach wrote: »

You mean the republicans brought about partition? How unpatriotic.

Conor Cruise types, brought about partition by not sticking to there guns , so to speak.