BMWs and running costs

fricatus

Afternoon all...

I'm looking into getting a BMW 318d/320d at present and just trying to calculate what the overall costs are likely to be.

However whenever I mention BMW to anyone, their reaction is "yeah, great cars, but they cost about a grand to service, and about €500 for a set of tyres", that sort of thing.

Is this true in your experience, or is there a grain of truth (such as service costing an arm and a leg at dealerships, but much cheaper from specialists).

I heard also about run-flat tyres costing a lot. What do you reckon?

speedfreak

servicing is ok- my last service in main dealer was 209. Run flats are v expensive alright. Ones i have for 17'' are over 200 each.

E92

fricatus wrote: »

Afternoon all...

I'm looking into getting a BMW 318d/320d at present and just trying to calculate what the overall costs are likely to be.

However whenever I mention BMW to anyone, their reaction is "yeah, great cars, but they cost about a grand to service, and about €500 for a set of tyres", that sort of thing.

Is this true in your experience, or is there a grain of truth (such as service costing an arm and a leg at dealerships, but much cheaper from specialists).

I heard also about run-flat tyres costing a lot. What do you reckon?

Run flat tyres are rather expensive to replace.

Stick to the models with 16 inch wheels though, not only are the tyres cheaper to repair, but these models have better ride quality and make less road noise as well.

You must not buy an M sport model. They're the ones with the big bumpers, big wheels and other "sporty" looking stuff on them.

Now that we've that out of the way, you'll be buying the 320d. The 318d has enough power, but the 320d is no dearer to tax and if it's a post October 07 model will do no less than 59 mpg for you. The 320d will have more than enough power for almost every situation. A 325d or 330d is better yet, especially as the 325d is only €302 a year to tax on a 08 plate(as opposed to over €1,200 on a 07).

New BMW owners have been given the option to buy a thing called "Service Inclusive" for many years now, this means that you pay about €1,000 or maybe a bit more and that will cover all scheduled servicing costs for 5 years or 60,000 miles whichever comes first.

Best of all the package is transferrable to the next owner, so if you're buying a used one and the owner has Service Inclusive on his/her car then you won't pay a single cent for any scheduled services that are due up to 5 years/60,000 miles.

It covers parts, wear and tear items and labour during this period.

I'm not sure how this works for UK imports, but I seriously doubt a UK Service Inclusive package will be valid here.

For that reason alone, I would suggest you start looking at 3 series BMWs here, and make sure you get one with Service Inclusive.

So BMWs costing a fortune to run? A load of rubbish if you have a BMW with Service Inclusive. How can they be dear to run with €156 road tax, 60 mpg average fuel consumption, no servicing costs with the aforementioned Service Inclusive. You can have the sheer joy of owning the Ultimate Driving Machine, and at a very low cost as well.

Anan1

There's more than a grain of truth in it. That said, the 5yrs/100,000kms service inclusive pack is €1,000 if taken when the car is new.

Gumbo

to give the most up to date service pricing :

i rang joe duffy's to get a price for them to service my mams 318Ci. the OBC is saying 100 miles to oil service so its an oil change, oil filter change and micro filter change and all in is €300.

Stevie Dakota

kceire wrote: »

to give the most up to date service pricing :

i rang joe duffy's to get a price for them to service my mams 318Ci. the OBC is saying 100 miles to oil service so its an oil change, oil filter change and micro filter change and all in is €300.

Not bad, a Megane will cost only a bit less.

Cyrus

E92 wrote: »

You must not buy an M sport model. They're the ones with the big bumpers, big wheels and other "sporty" looking stuff on them.

but they look the nicest and have the better resale

Owen

E92 wrote: »

So BMWs costing a fortune to run? A load of rubbish if you have a BMW with Service Inclusive. How can they be dear to run with €156 road tax, 60 mpg average fuel consumption, no servicing costs with the aforementioned Service Inclusive. You can have the sheer joy of owning the Ultimate Driving Machine, and at a very low cost as well.

BMW now also do tyre insurance, so depending on the vehicle, it's 350 Euro upwards, and covers you for replacing 12 damaged runflat tires in the space of 3 years.

Anan1

Cyrus wrote: »

but they look the nicest and have the better resale

They look cheap, IMO. The ride is also a lot worse than an SE.

xabi

Anan1 wrote: »

They look cheap, IMO. The ride is also a lot worse than an SE.

The standard model looks cheap if you ask me, the M Sport is the only way to go.

X.

Anan1

ned78 wrote: »

BMW now also do tyre insurance, so depending on the vehicle, it's 350 Euro upwards, and covers you for replacing 12 damaged runflat tires in the space of 3 years.

I just called BMW Ireland, they seem to know nothing about this. Where did you hear about it?

Owen

Anan1 wrote: »

I just called BMW Ireland, they seem to know nothing about this. Where did you hear about it?

At work Give it time, it'll filter out.

With regard to the M Sport/SE debate, why not get an SE, and fit the M Sport body kit? Best of both worlds IMHO.

Cyrus

so this looks cheap



and this is better ?

Anan1

ned78 wrote: »

At work Give it time, it'll filter out.

Any ideaa when it will have filtered out to the point where one can buy it?:)

ned78 wrote: »

With regard to the M Sport/SE debate, why not get an SE, and fit the M Sport body kit? Best of both worlds IMHO.

Better let a subsequent owner chav the car to his own taste, IMO.;)

Anan1

Cyrus wrote: »

so this looks cheap


and this is better ?

Neither look great, TBH. An SE in a muted metallic is far more elegant.

Victor_M

Can you get the M kit only without the suspension mods? It's pointless having the ride comfort of the M3 with the power of a 1.8l petrol pushing it along.

I agree with Cyrus the M pack does make it look better, I personally would put the extra money into a larger engine if I had to choose between looks and performance but in this country most people are petrified of taxing anything over a 1.8, despite dropping 40K on the car in the first place.

I had a 2.2l 6 cyl a few years ago and you'd swear it was a 6L V12 bi-turbo when it came to resale time people were genuinely shocked at how 'big' the engine was.

Anan1

Victor_M wrote: »

Can you get the M kit only without the suspension mods? It's pointless having the ride comfort of the M3 with the power of a 1.8l petrol pushing it along.

Slightly OT, but Mercedes used to offer the Avantgarde pack with Elegance suspension for just this reason.

Owen

Victor_M wrote: »

Can you get the M kit only without the suspension mods? It's pointless having the ride comfort of the M3 with the power of a 1.8l petrol pushing it along

On some cars, yes, for example the X3 has an option to 'delete sport suspension'. With the 3 Series though, the only option I know (And I do stand to be corrected) is to get an SE with Sport Seats, Sport Steering Wheel, Anthracite Headlining, the M Sport Body Kit, and the M Sport Wheels. And it's been done several times in a garage I used to work in. Looks every bit like an M Sport, goes the same obviously due to the same engine, but with softer suspension.

maidhc

E92 wrote: »

How can they be dear to run with €156 road tax, 60 mpg average fuel consumption, no servicing costs with the aforementioned Service Inclusive. You can have the sheer joy of owning the Ultimate Driving Machine, and at a very low cost as well.

Give me a "D"
Give me an "E"
Give me a "P"
Give me a "R"

You get the idea. Of course a 318d won't cost much more to run than a Mondeo, but it won't be much better, if at all, either. The 645 Cyrus has noted on another thread WILL cost a lot to run, but such is life, and it is a different kind of car entirely.

Proper BMWs do cost a lot to run. Small family BMWS probably cost about the same as anything else, but realistically do nothing a Ford can't do.

Johnny Utah

OP; provided there is no major work to be done on the car, servicing is quite reasonable from a main dealer. However, if extra work is needed, then you can run up a big bill pretty fast- happened to me this year

As for tyres: if your looking at 318/320, then they come with 16 inch wheels, so the tyres won't be too expensive. Most family saloons would have this size or similar, so the cost of tyres is similar.

maidhc wrote: »

Give me a "D"
Give me an "E"
Give me a "P"
Give me a "R"

You get the idea. Of course a 318d won't cost much more to run than a Mondeo, but it won't be much better, if at all, either. The 645 Cyrus has noted on another thread WILL cost a lot to run, but such is life, and it is a different kind of car entirely.

Proper BMWs do cost a lot to run. Small family BMWS probably cost about the same as anything else, but realistically do nothing a Ford can't do.

I wouldn't agree. A 3 series is in a different league to a Mondeo- RWD, better handling, much nicer interior, etc.

Anan1

Johnny Utah wrote: »

I wouldn't agree. A 3 series is in a different league to a Mondeo- RWD, better handling, much nicer interior, etc.

+1, the E90 is a fundamentally better car. It needs options, though, the standard seats (for example) aren't great.

whiterebel

Johnny Utah wrote: »

OP; provided there is no major work to be done on the car, servicing is quite reasonable from a main dealer. However, if extra work is needed, then you can run up a big bill pretty fast- happened to me this year

As for tyres: if your looking at 318/320, then they come with 16 inch wheels, so the tyres won't be too expensive. Most family saloons would have this size or similar, so the cost of tyres is similar.


I wouldn't agree. A 3 series is in a different league to a Mondeo- RWD, better handling, much nicer interior, etc.

And one of the things that turned myself and the missus off a new Beemer, was the interior - Not a whole lot different from our old '90 320i, IMO.

maidhc

Johnny Utah wrote: »

I wouldn't agree. A 3 series is in a different league to a Mondeo- RWD, better handling, much nicer interior, etc.

I don't really agree. It is RWD, and has probably better engines right now, but it is smaller, the difference in handling is largly attributable to the difference in size, and the interior of the higher spec mondeos is well up there... and then there is price..... but anyway.

Basically what I am saying is if you want a "the ultimate driving machine" you pay for the priviledge. And the running costs of a "proper" BMW will be high enough... and I don't see any particular problem with that.

unkel

whiterebel wrote: »

And one of the things that turned myself and the missus off a new Beemer, was the interior - Not a whole lot different from our old '90 320i, IMO.

Yep BMW are generally very conservative with the interiors. Functional, traditional, good quality materials, but not stylish or modern or even elegant. I quite like that but I can see that most people wouldn't

And I agree with maidhc that the difference between the market leading non-prestige D segment car (current champion indeed the Mondeo) and lower end 3-series has never been smaller

Johnny Utah

whiterebel wrote: »

And one of the things that turned myself and the missus off a new Beemer, was the interior - Not a whole lot different from our old '90 320i, IMO.

I think the interior of the E90 is quite different to previous models. However, I'm not too keen on the interior of the E90 series myself- seems a bit too bland. I much prefer the interior of the E46, especially the way the centre console is angled towards the driver. And, build quality is always very good with BMW.

maidhc wrote: »

I don't really agree. It is RWD, and has probably better engines right now, but it is smaller, the difference in handling is largly attributable to the difference in size, and the interior of the higher spec mondeos is well up there... and then there is price..... but anyway..

You're not comparing like-with-like: most cars with the top spec will look a hell of a lot better than the equivalent basic spec. A top spec mondeo will probably be similar in price to the most basic spec 3 series too, so the Ford wouldn't have a price advantage in this instance.

Sure, there will be a difference in cost between the basic spec mondeo and the basic 3 series, but I still maintain that the BMW is way ahead of the Mondeo when you compare like-with-like.

maidhc wrote: »

Basically what I am saying is if you want a "the ultimate driving machine" you pay for the priviledge. And the running costs of a "proper" BMW will be high enough... and I don't see any particular problem with that.

I agree somewhat, but the reality is that we pay obscene amounts to put a car on the road in this country. It's a compromise really between getting the best car which is also reasonably affordable. Unfortunately, this means that most people will opt for smaller engines and poverty spec to save on vrt and road tax, and tbh I can't blame them. I'd love to own an M3, but I just couldn't stomach handing over 2k a year in road tax alone.

The motorist is the one group that really gets shafted in Ireland.

Biro

E92 wrote: »

Run flat tyres are rather expensive to replace.

Stick to the models with 16 inch wheels though, not only are the tyres cheaper to repair, but these models have better ride quality and make less road noise as well.

You must not buy an M sport model. They're the ones with the big bumpers, big wheels and other "sporty" looking stuff on them.

Now that we've that out of the way, you'll be buying the 320d. The 318d has enough power, but the 320d is no dearer to tax and if it's a post October 07 model will do no less than 59 mpg for you. The 320d will have more than enough power for almost every situation. A 325d or 330d is better yet, especially as the 325d is only €302 a year to tax on a 08 plate(as opposed to over €1,200 on a 07).

New BMW owners have been given the option to buy a thing called "Service Inclusive" for many years now, this means that you pay about €1,000 or maybe a bit more and that will cover all scheduled servicing costs for 5 years or 60,000 miles whichever comes first.

Best of all the package is transferrable to the next owner, so if you're buying a used one and the owner has Service Inclusive on his/her car then you won't pay a single cent for any scheduled services that are due up to 5 years/60,000 miles.

It covers parts, wear and tear items and labour during this period.

I'm not sure how this works for UK imports, but I seriously doubt a UK Service Inclusive package will be valid here.

For that reason alone, I would suggest you start looking at 3 series BMWs here, and make sure you get one with Service Inclusive.

So BMWs costing a fortune to run? A load of rubbish if you have a BMW with Service Inclusive. How can they be dear to run with €156 road tax, 60 mpg average fuel consumption, no servicing costs with the aforementioned Service Inclusive. You can have the sheer joy of owning the Ultimate Driving Machine, and at a very low cost as well.

Apparently the service pack does work over here from the UK. Bet that makes the local BMW man very happy indeed!
Also don't believe the sales man pitch of "you can't change the run flat tyres or you'll spoil the handling". It's a sales pitch that they're forced to give in order for run flats to take over.

maidhc

Johnny Utah wrote: »

I'd love to own an M3, but I just couldn't stomach handing over 2k a year in road tax alone.

I don't know. €2k is a bit of money, but I think we are caught up with road tax.

If you bought a 320d in 2006 it would have cost about 40k. The car is now worth 15k. That is 25k gone in 3 years. The tax on the M3 is peanuts in comparison.

unkel

maidhc wrote: »

I don't know. €2k is a bit of money, but I think we are caught up with road tax.

If you bought a 320d in 2006 it would have cost about 40k. The car is now worth 15k. That is 25k gone in 3 years. The tax on the M3 is peanuts in comparison.

And the €2k is only for post July '08 cars. Earlier M3s (or any other car with an engine >3l) will cost €1.5k in motor tax

Johnny Utah

maidhc wrote: »

I don't know. €2k is a bit of money, but I think we are caught up with road tax.

If you bought a 320d in 2006 it would have cost about 40k. The car is now worth 15k. That is 25k gone in 3 years. The tax on the M3 is peanuts in comparison.

Of course, if you had 120k to spend on a brand new M3, then 2k on road tax, plus insurance costs, plus expensive servicing, tyres etc would be peanuts.

Sorry, I meant as a point of principle, I would hate to hand over 2k to those Greeners, irrespective of whether I was a millionaire or not! As it is, I have to (begrudgingly) pay up nearly 600 euro every year on a 2L. Madness, and we don't even have proper motorways between our cities.

The example of the 320d is unusual. That particular model dropped about 8/9k in the vrt changes this year (I think), so it was especially hard hit on depreciation.

bazz26

To most people depreciation is not tangable until they are faced with it come selling time. Also at least you get some worth from the car making depreciation an somewhat easier pill to swallow.

On the other hand motor tax is a constant reminder every year and most motorists feel they don't get any value from it. A harder pill to swallow irrespective of the monetory difference.

maidhc

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Of course, if you had 120k to spend on a brand new M3, then 2k on road tax, plus insurance costs, plus expensive servicing, tyres etc would be peanuts.

I never suggested buying a new one.

Johnny Utah wrote: »

The example of the 320d is unusual. That particular model dropped about 8/9k in the vrt changes this year (I think), so it was especially hard hit on depreciation.

No car is worth anything at the moment to be fair, and anyone who bought a new car in the past 3 years is sitting on a MASSIVE loss.

I would say my car (a lowly 2003 Focus with 100k on the clock) has depreciated over 5k last year, which is as much as it would have depreciated in year 1.

Owen

Biro wrote: »

Also don't believe the sales man pitch of "you can't change the run flat tyres or you'll spoil the handling". It's a sales pitch that they're forced to give in order for run flats to take over.

I have never ever heard anyone say anything like that about Runflat's Biro, the only line I've ever heard, and it's not even a sales pitch, is that it's possible to put ordinary tires on the alloys, but you'll have no spare.

E92

ned78 wrote: »

I have never ever heard anyone say anything like that about Runflat's Biro, the only line I've ever heard, and it's not even a sales pitch, is that it's possible to put ordinary tires on the alloys, but you'll have no spare.

Speaking of runflats - do you know why the E60/E61 is available with 17 inch wheels and standard tyres in the continent, but not either here on in the UK and why BMW UK says the E60 is not designed for 17 inch wheels and standard tyres?

Anan1

whiterebel wrote: »

And one of the things that turned myself and the missus off a new Beemer, was the interior - Not a whole lot different from our old '90 320i, IMO.

I can think of far worse-looking interiors than that of the E30.

Voodoomelon

Here's a question, do BMW dealers charge more for a standard oil change on a more expensive BMW than a cheaper one?

Ie, would they charge more for a 6 series or 7 series oil change, than a 3 series oil change, considering they are essentially the exact same job?

Cyrus

Depends on the oil tho doesn't it, oil change on an m is expensive but they charge tho guts of 200 for the oil alone

Anan1

Out of interest, how many litres does the car take? And what is this super-expensive oil?

Owen

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Ie, would they charge more for a 6 series or 7 series oil change, than a 3 series oil change, considering they are essentially the exact same job?

Well, they're not the same job really. A 6/8 cylinder engine on a 6/7 Series contains more oil than a 4 cylinder 3 Series, and the oil filter is slightly larger. So you end up paying a tiny bit more for the parts, but the labour is pretty much the same.

Similarly, replacing spark plugs/injectors would also be more expensive due to the additional parts.

But as similar posters have said, the best option is to go for a car which has Service Inclusive, which will cover the cost of servicing for 5 years.

Owen

E92 wrote: »

Speaking of runflats - do you know why the E60/E61 is available with 17 inch wheels and standard tyres in the continent, but not either here on in the UK and why BMW UK says the E60 is not designed for 17 inch wheels and standard tyres?

I really don't I'm afraid. There are huge market differences between localities, for example in all LHD countries, you can get BMW 3 Series and 5 Series with 4WD, but they don't do it in RHD, in America there is more equipment as standard, and in Singapore, they once had a 718 to suit that market.

Cyrus

Anan1 wrote: »

Out of interest, how many litres does the car take? And what is this super-expensive oil?

7 or 8 litres i think and its castol edge 10w 60

unkel

ned78 wrote: »

in Singapore, they once had a 718 to suit that market.

A 718tds? I so want that badge *off to ebay to find it*

Owen

unkel wrote: »

A 718tds? I so want that badge *off to ebay to find it*

I think it was a 718i actually, worse again!

bazz26

LOL, a 718i. I'd like to see the 0 to 60 time on that car. Amazing they never offered it as a "Paddy" special here, it would have sold by the bucket load.

ham_n_mustard

Just a few things to remember:

1) with service inclusive, they are really strict as to when they will cover the servicing. ie, you have to be within a couple of hundred miles of the service being due, forget the exact figure. but if you are something like 2000 miles overdue a service, it won't be covered.

2) runflat tyres, after the introduction of runflats (some time in 2004, depending on the vehicle model), suspensions were set up a little softer to compensate for the harder side-walls of the tyres. In BMW's case, the official line is that if you change over from runflats to standard tyres, you change the vahicle from factory spec, and where there is a subsequent suspension problem, warranty on those parts is invalidated.

food for thought

ham_n_mustard

Cyrus wrote: »

7 or 8 litres i think and its castol edge 10w 60

It is 10w60 alright, castrol tws motorsport

Biro

ned78 wrote: »

I have never ever heard anyone say anything like that about Runflat's Biro, the only line I've ever heard, and it's not even a sales pitch, is that it's possible to put ordinary tires on the alloys, but you'll have no spare.

I got it from 3 different BMW sales guys in 3 different counties. I assumed it was across the board. Mustn't be though. Another guy here got the same line from another BMW sales guy.

Biro

ned78 wrote: »

Well, they're not the same job really. A 6/8 cylinder engine on a 6/7 Series contains more oil than a 4 cylinder 3 Series, and the oil filter is slightly larger. So you end up paying a tiny bit more for the parts, but the labour is pretty much the same.

Similarly, replacing spark plugs/injectors would also be more expensive due to the additional parts.

But as similar posters have said, the best option is to go for a car which has Service Inclusive, which will cover the cost of servicing for 5 years.

I hear what you're saying alright, but I'd say he might be referring to something like a 330d versus a 530d versus a 630d and 730d.

Owen

Biro wrote: »

I hear what you're saying alright, but I'd say he might be referring to something like a 330d versus a 530d versus a 630d and 730d.

Then it shouldn't be. The labour rate is the same for all cars, it's just a variation in the parts prices in that case.

unkel

I had a BMW serviced by M&G once and I remember there were standard charges for a full BMW service. There were 3 charges, for 4, 6 or 8 pot engines. The charge was only related to the number of cylinders in the engine, not to the model. I'm a bit hazy on this but I think it might have been £150, £250 and £350 all including VAT back in '01

Voodoomelon

I see. Well the E38 7 takes 6.5 litres of 0w-30, so apart from the quantity of oil between the different sized cars, there shouldn't be any real difference in labour costs. I just had a feeling that if they see you gliding into the garage in a 750 compared to a 318, they're gonna charge you more...

Cyrus

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I see. Well the E38 7 takes 6.5 litres of 0w-30, so apart from the quantity of oil between the different sized cars, there shouldn't be any real difference in labour costs.

no but there will be a big difference in oil costs, its much cheaper just to get it yourself from opie oils or somewhere tho