Art O'Neill Challenge

911sc

For those interested in loosing few pounds right after Christmas, Art O'Neill challenge is a 55km night run (and/or walk) starting from Dublin Castle on the 09th January 2009 at 00:00.
Good luck as I'll be in bed.;)

hunnymonster

I really like the look of this!

tunney

AFAIK its not competitive and more of a a "tea and sandwiches" type of time.

hunnymonster

tunney wrote: »

AFAIK its not competitive and more of a a "tea and sandwiches" type of time.

my kind of event :-) Just thinking it might be useful MdS training.

--amadeus--

Dublin in Jan <> Sahara in March!!

Actually being serious the navigational practice would be good. You'd be in with a shout of placing wouldn't you?

hunnymonster

it was the navigation and night running I was thinking might be good practice?

ekevosu

I did this two years ago but the vast majority hiked it (as did I), only a couple of runners from the north ran it. A lot of it is on the road (first part of it) which would be fine to run but the part over the mountains would be incredibly hard to run due to the terrain. Usually guaranteed a bit of rain but a good challenge (I swore never again after it but thinking of doing it again since).

--amadeus--

Yea, possibly. MdS isn't GPS navigation though is it? And I thought it was pretty clearly marked? There will be a world of difference in teh terrain but night running practice in a race environment would be valuable all right.

Back OT how much of teh race is tarmac and how much off road / cross country?

hunnymonster

about 60% tarmac as far as I can tell

MdS is navigated by the front runners and apparently pretty easy to follow by those further back. You do need to be able to navigate though as the desert can throw up anything. That's what I've been told anyway, will let you know in April :-) Given that I'm still getting lost on the streets of Cork (whose stupid idea was it to have the river split and confuse me!) I don't stand much hope in a sand storm.

Enduro

It is differnent to the normal Art O'Neill walk. This time the ultra run is an official part of the event. Runners have their own start time, and will be provided with a small amount of support.

I've entered, and I can (theoretically) navigate, so there is one person to follow anyway (Hopefully in the right direction). Should be a blast. Should also be an opportunity to lay down a few markers, as this is the first "official" race. Records can be set (Good opportunity to set the female record, HM)

Slogger Jogger

Good luck to anyone considering taking part. I'll be in my leaba recovering from the kids hyper from Christmas.
Is there any particular reason why its being done at night apart from appealing to mad people ? I expect that progress will be slow once you hit the mountains due to the lovely peat and boggy ground.

ekevosu

midnight was the time art o neill and hugh o donnell escaped from dublin castle as far as I know and the walk is a recreation of their escape. I think it works out well enough as it starts to get bright during the mountain part when you need to see your footing. I was half thinking of doing the hike again after reading this thread but then the painful memories came back......:)

Odysseus

Enduro wrote: »

It is differnent to the normal Art O'Neill walk. This time the ultra run is an official part of the event. Runners have their own start time, and will be provided with a small amount of support.

Hi Enduro, any idea of what type of support will be provided? Also anyone got a map of the route I couldn't find one on the site.

Odysseus

So I have just done the deed and signed up for this. Apart from Enduro has anyone else signed up?

hunnymonster

myself and mr HM just have. Not entirely sure I'll be ready yet. I've had a lingering cold all christmas and not feeling so hot!

shels4ever

hunnymonster wrote: »

myself and mr HM just have. Not entirely sure I'll be ready yet. I've had a lingering cold all christmas and not feeling so hot!

Fairplay to everyone doing this and the best of luck.

Odysseus

hunnymonster wrote: »

myself and mr HM just have. Not entirely sure I'll be ready yet. I've had a lingering cold all christmas and not feeling so hot!

I'm glad to hear that both of you have entered, hopefully you be ready in time. This race had been somewhat of a curve ball for me in that I was planning on taking my time with the navigation side of things in the new year, I never hear of this before. However if some has gone to all the trouble to organise it; it would be very bad manners not to turn up;)

hunnymonster

thanks Odysseus. I did 25 km this morning and chest was very tight afterwards. I'll make the call much later in the week. My bad lungs tend to exaggerate the symptoms and then recover pretty quickly.

Hard Worker

hunnymonster wrote: »

thanks Odysseus. I did 25 km this morning and chest was very tight afterwards. I'll make the call much later in the week. My bad lungs tend to exaggerate the symptoms and then recover pretty quickly.

Have you linked up with the other Irish that are doing the MdS this year?
Will you be doing this 55K with your back pack? It'll be great practice for the MdS as you will have to run through the night on the long stage.

RacoonQueen

Best of luck to all doing this. Sounds like it'd be a blast.

Enduro

Hey HM, great to hear that you (and pardner) have signed up. Make sure to say hello! Likewise to Odysseus.

Odysseus, in case you haven't already found them, maps and locations of support stations are up on the website.

hunnymonster

Will do. Looking forward to meeting you. I'm a bucket of snot this morning. Hopefully this is progress and Lungs will now clear.

This will be the first time for me for navigation, night running and proper off-road running. I've just looked up "OS grid reference" on wikipedia, and despite several maths based degrees, it makes no sense to me.

jeffontour

hunnymonster wrote: »

This will be the first time for me for navigation, night running and proper off-road running. I've just looked up "OS grid reference" on wikipedia, and despite several maths based degrees, it makes no sense to me.

Hi all, I'm also signed up to run this and have to say having been on some of the route at the weekend it's going to be tough going through some sections, there's lots of opportunity to end up struggling through boggy patches or deep undergrowth when you don't have to!

I've run some night events before but they were on marked trails which were much safer. I'm hoping there's going to be some ultra camaraderie and people bunch with others moving at their pace.

Jeff

GoHardOrGoHome

jeffontour wrote: »

I'm hoping there's going to be some ultra camaraderie and people bunch with others moving at their pace.

Any chance of some ultra slow camaraderie (while still maintaining (faking?) a running motion)? I'd love to do this but not entirely sure. I suppose if I run out of steam I could drop a gear and finish it as a hike with the hikers. I'd have warm gear in the backpack if that was the case (it's part of the mandatory kit anyway).

hunnymonster

Weather report on the radio news on way home said much of Wicklow impassible with temperatures expected to dip to -7 C tonight. brrrrgh At least we won't have to worry about slushy mud :-) if it's going to be that cold later in the week.

shels4ever

Actually looking at the map now to see if i'll be able to make it to some point to have a look at this. looks like a great event there isn't many events or ultras that i'd think about doing but this is one.

hunnymonster

shels4ever wrote: »

Actually looking at the map now to see if i'll be able to make it to some point to have a look at this. looks like a great event there isn't many events or ultras that i'd think about doing but this is one.

standing on high ground with a flare in each hand would be good I finally got some sleep after a couple of nights up with bunged up breathing and I had a nightmare about being lost on a cold mountain top to wake me. 911sc you've a lot to answer for!

shels4ever

hunnymonster wrote: »

standing on high ground with a flare in each hand would be good !

So just the normal Friday night for me then.

hunnymonster

There has just been an email from Gearoid, essentially saying, if you can't navigate, run to the first checkpoint and then join the walkers. While this is a very sensible thing to suggest, I was wondering if anyone would be running slower than me and who can navigate. That way I could still run with someone without risking, getting lost. I say slower than me because the last thing I want is to run the risk of holding someone up. I would guess about 8:30 min/mile would be the speed I would expect with a head full of snot on a cold Jan night.

jeffontour

hunnymonster wrote: »

I would guess about 8:30 min/mile would be the speed I would expect with a head full of snot on a cold Jan night.

I'm not planning on going much quicker than this but unfortunately not confident navigating in the dark so not much help to you HM.

On my initial enquiries I'd thought there would be more support for runners but that's not to be. For my own safety I'm happy to take the approach suggested by Gearoid but maybe with the following tweak.

Make it to Kippure, walk that offroad section with the hikers and maybe the next road section approaching Black Hill also. Once we have daylight we consider continuing on as a group at a quicker pace?

Jeff

hunnymonster

that could be a plan.

IIMII

You'll need a head torch for this. If you are hiking, get yourself a pair of sealskinz socks (and pref gloves). If you are running, plaster your face in vaseline when you mount the hill above Lacken.

This is where it can get really miserable - even if it isn't raining, low cloud can drench you.

Whatever else you do, try to have waterproof hat, gloves and socks. And glucose sweets..!

This may not be as tough as the walk in previous years as in previous years the group had to stick together which meant those at the back were driven along through the bog to keep up. This organised version says it's do it at your own pace

I'd imagine that there will be few groups doing this as I know some walking clubs/groups/organisations did it themselves in the past. May be a bigger turnout than expected as there are likely to be some traditional non-affiliated 'Airt O'Neill walkers' too

Just in relation to the start, in the past the pace bombed along from Dublin Castle to Bohernabreena to burn off people (whilst still in the lit city limits) that aren't able for it. The walk up to the old stone cross can be very tough and a shock to the system. Maybe it may be different for the Challenge if people can take theuir time moreso

Re running, if you are a runner and have a Garmin Forerunner or the likes, you can load the map up and use that to navigate through cloud, mist, bog burst, streams and misery..!

It's a great route though. Most people will be near Mullaghcleevaun when the sun comes up about 8.30, and that alone makes it worth it

Just be prepared for driving rain and general damp. A couple of those pocket hand warmers might be handy to have too if you suffer from cold hands

If it is freezing on the night, that should make crossing the boggy bits easier.

Best of luck to anyone taking part - it's a great trip

Enduro

Glad to hear you're slowly getting better HM. I got a similar affliction 3 weeks ago, but unfortunately for me I picked it up on the second day of a 5 day adventure race. As a result I was wrecked, and didn't get to rest and clear it from the system until much much later than I would have liked. No such excuses for this Friday.

On the navigation front... I've offered to give a quick briefing on relevant navigation techniqes before the start of the run. Once you know the most basic details about nav you're very unlikely to get too lost in Wicklow. There are lots of big features that are hard to miss, easy to find, and will enable you to figure out where you are. Even if I don't do an official one, I'll happily do an unofficial one for anyone. Just make sure you have your map(s) and compass (A sylva type 4 is my preference). If you have a GPS then bring it too, and make sure to preload the co-ordinates of at least the aid stations and the finish into it. If you happen to have an altimeter, then its also another useful navigational tool.

In any case, if Friday is anything like the last few days we'll be grand. The moon is giving off tons of light in the clear skies, making it easy to simply see where you're going.

A couple of recommendations I'd have...

It's very very cold at night at the moment. Remember that as a rule of thumb the temperature will be one degree lower for every hundred metres you ascend. So if its -2 at Dublin castle it could be -8 or so up on the hills. Its much easier to cool down if you're too hot than to warm up if your too cold. So err very much on the side of ultra warm clothing, and have spares. My primary consideration for this race will be to keep every part of my body warm and comfortable, whatever it takes. I'm likely to be some of my heavier hillwalking type gear, such as hats, gloves, socks, thermals and jacket. The biggest danger by far on this event is getting too cold. Remember, if you have to stop for any reason you will cool down very qickly indeed.

If you're not confident about navigating, then I'd recommend grouping up with other runners of a similar pace. Its safer. Two heads are better than one, etc, and its good practice for even the best navigators to have to explain where they are heading and why. Also, if the worst comes to the worst and you do get lost its much less stressful to be lost with group than to be lost alone! A group of runners should move faster than a group of walkers, so its a potential gain for all involved.

hunnymonster

Thanks Enduro, it's been a while since I've been the complete noob at an event. I'd kind of forgotten that "can I really do this" feeling!

--amadeus--

Threads like this are why I like this board - excellent advice from people who really know thier stuff.

Nice one.

Odysseus

Cheers for that Enduro I'll take you up on that offer of a briefing if that's ok. I hope to have a GPS for the night just have to learn to use it!! At this stage I'm still looking at going for the run and I just plan to bring enough stuff so that I will be comfortable if I do get lost. The hardest part to navigate looks like the 18k section so I just plan to take my time on that part.

IIMII

Odysseus wrote: »

I hope to have a GPS for the night just have to learn to use it!! At this stage I'm still looking at going for the run and I just plan to bring enough stuff so that I will be comfortable if I do get lost. The hardest part to navigate looks like the 18k section so I just plan to take my time on that part.

Depending on your GPS, this may be useful. You can use this (it uses google maps) with to map your route, then export it and copy it to your GPS using BabelGPS

IIMII

And if you are hiking, don't wear any cotton base-layers as you'll sweat, the cotton will retain the moisture, you'll stop for a break and you'll freeze.

911sc

I still have not changed my mind since my first post in this thread.. other than i may sleep with 2 duvets instead of one on Friday night:)
Joke aside, i really wish all the best to all taking place.. the distance is IMO a challenge in itself, but the sub-zero temperature brings the challenge to an other level. Fair play to all participants.

Odysseus

IIMII wrote: »

Depending on your GPS, this may be useful. You can use this (it uses google maps) with to map your route, then export it and copy it to your GPS using BabelGPS

Cheers for that, I am to pick one up tomorrow and the route should already be on it.

Odysseus

hunnymonster wrote: »

it's been a while since I've been the complete noob at an event. I'd kind of forgotten that "can I really do this" feeling!

Yeah I got a taste of that last night I was in a bit of a flap; to look at my front room your swear I was planning on invading Poland.

hunnymonster

lol, we're flying up. Goodness knows what the airport security will think of our bags :-) I need to sort stuff out tonight. Mr HM did quite a bit of hill walking in his youth and promises me we have everything I'll need...... somewhere! Mind you this is the same man who had to get changed into a new shirt in the Debenhams car park before a chirstmas party because we couldn't find a single dress shirt in the house!

jeffontour

Has anyone mapped this already for upload to a forerunner or other? I started over lunch but have just got to Kippure and have to get back to earning a living! I'll be borrowing a mates GPS later and will hopefully be mapping the route on that also, if anyone wants a copy let me know.

Anyone else cold just thinking of 04.30 at Kippure?

hunnymonster

I'm cold thinking about the whole thing. Doesn't help that I'm running a fever and my office is a fridge! I have my coat and cycling jacket on in the office!

I don't have anything uploaded but hope to play with my 305 forerunner tonight. Battery life probably not long enough though?

jeffontour

hunnymonster wrote: »

I don't have anything uploaded but hope to play with my 305 forerunner tonight. Battery life probably not long enough though?

I've gotten 12 hours out of the battery in the past in warmer conditions so the forerunner should survive(we're in more doubt probably!). Batteries, like people, work better in warmer conditions so keep it close to your body on the night to get the most out of it.

Will compare notes later on success loading routes.

hunnymonster

This is the longest I've ever gotten out of mine. Just missed the landing on a French beach! Whole think too 15:42 so about 15 hours.

IIMII

I'd save the battery until Kippure Hse. Once you make the turn left at the stone cross, it's a straight run past the army camp to Kippure. And the section you are likely to get lost in is the off-road bit from Ballynultaigh Gap to Glenmalure, and it would be handy to have your 10 hours going from 4am to 2pm where you are most at risk of getting lost in cloud, irregardless of whether it's day or night. Plus you have marshall's until Kippure Hse, whereas from Airt's cross you may well find yourslef on your own. Even though it will be daylight, it can still be tricky - if you aren't familiar with the area, you could end up coming down the mountain in the wrong valley and hiking the lenght of Glendalough thinking you are hiking down through Glenmalure..!

Enduro

Cheers for that Enduro I'll take you up on that offer of a briefing if that's ok. I hope to have a GPS for the night just have to learn to use it!! At this stage I'm still looking at going for the run and I just plan to bring enough stuff so that I will be comfortable if I do get lost. The hardest part to navigate looks like the 18k section so I just plan to take my time on that part.

No worries. The hardest part to navigate is the last part from Art's cross to the Glenmalure valley. But with a map, compass, and common sense it'll be fine even in bad conditions. The Glenmalure valley is a big target!

the distance is IMO a challenge in itself, but the sub-zero temperature brings the challenge to an other level. Fair play to all participants.

Actually its probably amongst the better conditions you're likely to get in January. It would be a lot worse in rain and high winds. All you have to do is make sure to have enough (good) clothes.

Goodness knows what the airport security will think of our bags :-)

I had a bit of that a few weeks ago in Dublin Airport. They had a good long look using the x-ray machine at my eggbeater pedals packed in with tons of other heavy adventure racing gear in my hand luggage.

911sc

Enduro wrote: »

They had a good long look using the x-ray machine at my eggbeater pedals packed in with tons of other heavy adventure racing gear in my hand luggage.

Has anybody gone through security with a Camelbak hand luggage + empty 2.1 liter pouch? Thinking of logistic for Paris marathon..

hunnymonster

yeah I've taken an empty camelpak through without problems. They once objected to a half empty 110ml pot of vaseline for a swim. They were happy enough for us to take it out of the tub and into a plastic bag! So the plastic explosives are not allowed in a tub but fine in a bag!!! They didn't blink an eye at the various zip-locks of white powder we also had (energy stuff!)

hunnymonster

Ok, I've got some very stupid questions. I have the vaguest memories of inter-cert geography back in the 80's (yep!) where OS maps were defined by two numbers a x axis and y axis and the number of figures defined the accuracy. I'm looking at the numbers on the directions e.g. stone cross (O:075 227). So would I be right is saying this is 75 m east and 227 m north of the origin? The next question is where is the origin? Assuming I get this bit, when I looked at the software IMMII (marengo) recommended, the way points are defined as two very different numbers e.g. 53.1699808, -6.3892364 . A little bit of googling let's me guess these are coordiantes in lattitude and longitude. How do I convert between the OS and lat/lon numbers? (yes I know if I have the size of the earth, the exact shape and height above sea-level I can work it out with a pen and paper but there has got to be a less rainforest unfriendly way).