Mafi

bamboozle

Not trying to stoke up the debate between Mafi and D'arcy, but having watched him this season despite all his good, the guy gives away some amount of kickable penalty's in games.
If he iron's out this he'll be some player....talk that if the IRB do not get rugby into the olympics then the rule preventing him and Warwick playing for ireland will be deleted!

Podge_irl

bamboozle wrote: »

talk that if the IRB do not get rugby into the olympics then the rule preventing him and Warwick playing for ireland will be deleted!

Talk from who? It's not going to happen.

zenmonk

Mafi is a class act. Better player than Darcy IMO.

sm.org

Can we please delete this thread before the usual crap starts.

Pshan

As a Munster supporter it pains me to agree but Mafi has given away some very silly penalties. Saying that I have him beforw any of the other centres that I saw playing for Irish Provinces this week-end.

Serenity Now!

bamboozle wrote: »

talk that if the IRB do not get rugby into the olympics then the rule preventing him and Warwick playing for ireland will be deleted!

There's no such talk apart from where it does not matter ie. the web or in punditland.
To prevent a transfer market at international level in the game, the rules, which will not change by the way, decree that once you play 7s or 'A' level for a country then that is your country for life.
The days of the Tiaan Strauss or Patricio Noriega are well behind us now.
And quite rightly so.
Mafi is a Kiwi and Waz is an Aussie. Get over it.

bamboozle

Serenity Now! wrote: »

There's no such talk apart from where it does not matter ie. the web or in punditland.
To prevent a transfer market at international level in the game, the rules, which will not change by the way, decree that once you play 7s or 'A' level for a country then that is your country for life.
The days of the Tiaan Strauss or Patricio Noriega are well behind us now.
And quite rightly so.
Mafi is a Kiwi and Waz is an Aussie. Get over it.

Tony Ward recently had an article where he stated that the IRB tightened the rules to try gain entrance to the Olympics, what he was saying this will be decided in the upcoming months, if Rugby is not accepted as an olympic sport then the IRB will reconsider the rule change...
Furthermore when u consider that the powers in world rugby are in favour of the rule change do not be suprised if it happens...

Podge_irl

bamboozle wrote: »

Tony Ward recently had an article where he stated that the IRB tightened the rules to try gain entrance to the Olympics, what he was saying this will be decided in the upcoming months, if Rugby is not accepted as an olympic sport then the IRB will reconsider the rule change...
Furthermore when u consider that the powers in world rugby are in favour of the rule change do not be suprised if it happens...

Well if Tony Ward said it....
The rules were "tightened" years ago, before the current drive to get 7s in the Olympics I thought. Anyway while it would possibly be fleetingly beneficial to Ireland it would wreck havoc with the island nations. And what "powers" are in favour of the move? I haven't heard anyone come out and say they want the qualifying regulations changed.

twinytwo

bamboozle wrote: »

Tony Ward recently had an article where he stated that the IRB tightened the rules to try gain entrance to the Olympics, what he was saying this will be decided in the upcoming months, if Rugby is not accepted as an olympic sport then the IRB will reconsider the rule change...
Furthermore when u consider that the powers in world rugby are in favour of the rule change do not be suprised if it happens...

If they remove that rule rugby will be gone to ****e altogether.... dont fix whats not broken

sm.org

Podge_irl wrote: »

Well if Tony Ward said it....
The rules were "tightened" years ago, before the current drive to get 7s in the Olympics I thought. Anyway while it would possibly be fleetingly beneficial to Ireland it would wreck havoc with the island nations. And what "powers" are in favour of the move? I haven't heard anyone come out and say they want the qualifying regulations changed.

I dont think it'll make the slightest difference to the Islanders. 99% of them qualify for a Kiwi passport anyway. They're all identified as talented enough from around 16 so they never get to the stage where they rep Fiji/Samao/Tonga at any level before being considered for NZ.

Chucky the tree

bamboozle wrote: »

Tony Ward recently had an article where he stated that the IRB tightened the rules to try gain entrance to the Olympics, what he was saying this will be decided in the upcoming months, if Rugby is not accepted as an olympic sport then the IRB will reconsider the rule change...
Furthermore when u consider that the powers in world rugby are in favour of the rule change do not be suprised if it happens...

Did he have any quotes from anyone in IRB at all?

crisco10

bamboozle wrote: »

Not trying to stoke up the debate between Mafi and D'arcy,/QUOTE]

Then why open your thread by mentioning D'Arcy?

Junior

There's a debate between D'Arcy and Mafi ? when ? what's the topic ? who's for and who's against ? Will it be televised or is it just one of these student debates ?

</ end tonuge in cheek>

[Jackass]

sm.org wrote: »

I dont think it'll make the slightest difference to the Islanders. 99% of them qualify for a Kiwi passport anyway. They're all identified as talented enough from around 16 so they never get to the stage where they rep Fiji/Samao/Tonga at any level before being considered for NZ.

Nacewa.

As far as I'm aware the New Zealand Rugby Union was funding his court battle to get him eligbalbe to play for the All Blacks, but when this was shot down he decided to go to Europe where he will be paid better because the rules simply will not change so he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Born and bread NZ, but in fairness he was capped for Fiji first team in a world cup.

Amazotheamazing

[Jackass] wrote: »

Nacewa.

As far as I'm aware the New Zealand Rugby Union was funding his court battle to get him eligbalbe to play for the All Blacks, but when this was shot down he decided to go to Europe where he will be paid better because the rules simply will not change so he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Born and bread NZ, but in fairness he was capped for Fiji first team in a world cup.

A lot of the players that end up playing for the Island's are actually from New Zealand, at one RWC, over half of Tonga's squad were born and raised in NZ, iirc.

Aidric

I love watching Mafi play. He makes a lot of line breaks in a game and his capacity to turnover opposition ball at the breakdown is as good as I've seen anywhere.

sm.org

[Jackass] wrote: »

Nacewa.

As far as I'm aware the New Zealand Rugby Union was funding his court battle to get him eligbalbe to play for the All Blacks, but when this was shot down he decided to go to Europe where he will be paid better because the rules simply will not change so he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Born and bread NZ, but in fairness he was capped for Fiji first team in a world cup.

He's not good enough to be an All Black. In fairness when he was capped for Fiji in 2003 NZ had a wealth of better players in his position/s.

Honestly he wouldn't get near the AB's current team and I'm not saying that because he's now a Blue.

Browney7

Mafi does give away a lot of easy penalties but some of the hits he puts in are off the scale:eek:

bamboozle

Podge_irl wrote: »

Well if Tony Ward said it....
The rules were "tightened" years ago, before the current drive to get 7s in the Olympics I thought. Anyway while it would possibly be fleetingly beneficial to Ireland it would wreck havoc with the island nations. And what "powers" are in favour of the move? I haven't heard anyone come out and say they want the qualifying regulations changed.

if you have paid any attention to world rugby for the last 20 years you will have noticed that all of the larger/powerful rugby countries lean on the weaker ones for talent, 9 of the last New Zealand world cup squad were islanders, as long as rugby stays professional all the larger nations will do their best to ensure the most talented players be eligable to play for them if possible...nacewa being a prime example.
Personally i think even the residency rule is a joke but that's the nature of the game & the rules were put in place by the power countrys.

Serenity Now!

bamboozle wrote: »

9 of the last New Zealand world cup squad were islanders, as long as rugby stays professional all the larger nations will do their best to ensure the most talented players be eligable to play for them if possible...nacewa being a prime example

This myth is starting to become very tiresome indeed.
What nine players on that squad were not brought up in New Zealand? The answer is not nine but two
(Sivivatu and Thorn, who as you know is not an 'Islander'). The rest of the squad have all been brought up in New Zealand since they were kids such as Muilaina, So'aialo, Collins etc.

Nacewa is born and bred Kiwi, by the way, and like so many of the Pac Island teams' players declared for Fiji via qualification of his parents' nationalities.
The Tonga, Samoa and Fiji teams are all populated in the majority with New Zealanders who have declared for those countries' national teams.
The fact that these players cannot switch countries is good for the game. Otherwise pre-RWC season would become jokes.

Ronan O'Gara is not American. Jamie Heaslip is not Israeli. And Spike Milligan was not Indian

Crash

The only way, to be honest, i'd find a lift of the rules would be a 1month amnesty re-reg ban - whereby players get the chance for a very short period to change, then clamp down again. Its still a crappy idea though.

Kdub

bamboozle wrote: »

if you have paid any attention to world rugby for the last 20 years you will have noticed that all of the larger/powerful rugby countries lean on the weaker ones for talent, 9 of the last New Zealand world cup squad were islanders, as long as rugby stays professional all the larger nations will do their best to ensure the most talented players be eligable to play for them if possible...nacewa being a prime example.
Personally i think even the residency rule is a joke but that's the nature of the game & the rules were put in place by the power countrys.

The islanders that play for the All blacks are either born in nz or came over as a child so they must have pretty good talent scouts to get there parents over already knowing that they would be become good players or when they were 6 yrs old ...thats pretty impressive...!!:eek:... Sivivatu was the only one who came over when he was 15yrs. Most players in the island nation teams learnt their rugby in NZ and swapped allegiances once they knew they wouldnt make the AB's FACT

Kdub

Going Forward wrote: »

The only way, to be honest, i'd find a lift of the rules would be a 1month amnesty re-reg ban - whereby players get the chance for a very short period to change, then clamp down again. Its still a crappy idea though.

1month amnesty for what?? ... keep the rules in place, they're there for a reason... to keep structure and show the importance of representing your country...once you change this you'll see the richest countries buying the best players...

daveyrovers

Have to agree the rule must stay in place. While we would love to have the likes of Mafi able to play for Ireland it's very much tunnel vision on our behalf.

New Zealand get a real bad rap for "Stealing" Islanders, if you go over there you might understand that most of the islanders move over there from a very young age not to play rugby but for a different life. New Zealand players get stolen by pacfic Islands nations as oppossed to the other way around.


If we start doing it purely by what nation you were born in we would actually lose loads of players ROG, Malcolm O'Kelly, Frankie Sheehan, in fact I'm sure you could put together a pretty decent current Irish 15 of players that weren't born on this Island.

The current rule seems the fairest to me, while I'd love to have Mafi playing for Ireland he's not really Irish.

premierstone

daveyrovers wrote: »

while I'd love to have Mafi playing for Ireland he's not really Irish.

Ah now sure Larry Murphy is as Irish as bacon and cabbage :D

Dodge

Why does Tony ward think it effects the Olympics? Tons of track and field athletes change nationalities and some have represented seperate countries at Olympic level.

Plenty of sports where this wouldn't be an issue.

Serenity Now!

Dodge wrote: »

Plenty of sports where this wouldn't be an issue.

Example?

bamboozle

Dodge wrote: »

Why does Tony ward think it effects the Olympics? Tons of track and field athletes change nationalities and some have represented seperate countries at Olympic level.

Plenty of sports where this wouldn't be an issue.

maybe it would enhance the sports chances of being ratified by the IOC?

anyways back to topic, Mafi is having a great season and his hit on Chabal was special, but he gives away a lot of silly penaltys!

Dodge

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Example?

Track and field
Swimming
Equestrian
Rowing
Cycling

All the above had competitors at the last olympics that have switched nationality.

I'd like to point out that I'm totally in favour of the current IRB rule and if it helps get Rugby into the Olympics, all the better

Crash

Sorry, I just realised reading back over my post that it was awfully written. I'm opposed to lifting the rule, completely. What i was trying to state that removing it would be an awful idea, but the only compromise between the two I could see ever not being abused to **** (or at least as much) would be an amnesty period where players that are already tied to a country would have the opportunity to re-register their country affiliation. Not exactly a great idea though, still think the rule should stay as is :P

jam_on_toast

mafi has absolutlely no place in an irish team. HE IS NOT IRISH!!!!! I dont care how good he is, he should not be allowed play for us and hopefully he never will. The same goes for warwick.

I don't mind players with irish grannies et al playing but that is as far as it should go.

jam_on_toast

jam_on_toast wrote: »

mafi has absolutlely no place in an irish team. HE IS NOT IRISH!!!!! I dont care how good he is, he should not be allowed play for us and hopefully he never will. The same goes for warwick.

I don't mind players with irish grannies et al playing but that is as far as it should go.

I agree,will never happen anyway with the rule,so I wouldnt worry about it.

Says alot about NH rugby that Ireland are trying to court an average super 14 player,who is now reagarded as a high class heineken cup player.He is a good line breaker and thats it,he also has a nasty streak regards tackles that would be a liablity on the international stage.

Paddy wallace isn top quality and the only other natural 12 we have is darcy who is far superior.

old boy

nobody is trying to bring mafi on board except guys who do not understand the rules,
you either bring on your own or else sink,
b.t.w it is hard to bring on ypur own,
2 probs, the country is full of guys who like to play, regardless of what sport,
these are of no use to any one,
what every coach requires is guys who need to, want to play, to go thro hurt to play, with something in the last 4 inches, ie betwen the ears and the crown,
only then will a coach have something to work on,
it is not all about team sessions,
each player is given work to do outside of team sessions, that is how results are obtained, do they do it or do they not

thehighground

jam_on_toast wrote: »

mafi has absolutlely no place in an irish team. HE IS NOT IRISH!!!!! I dont care how good he is, he should not be allowed play for us and hopefully he never will. The same goes for warwick.

I don't mind players with irish grannies et al playing but that is as far as it should go.

So, you think the connection that Isaac Boss has with Ireland (granny) is somehow 'superior' to :

Mafi who left NZ and is living, working and bringing his kids up in Ireland?

or Paul Warwick who has been here for a few years and whose wife and children are/will be Irish?

Crash

D'ya know, I think Mafi's a great player. Ok on the penalties front can sometimes be silly, but he's a fantastic crash ball centre with a good step, and defensively sound. my ONLY ever issue, and its one that tipoki shares with him, is a lack of vision out wide. Pretty much 90%+ of the time they get the ball they choose to step inside, even when there are players and space out wide, and I really do think its the one area that really lets him down. Dunno though, would be interested to see what yee Munster lads think? do you think its bad, or happier he concentrates on his channel to the extent he does?

Going Forward

Going Forward wrote: »

D'ya know, I think Mafi's a great player. Ok on the penalties front can sometimes be silly, but he's a fantastic crash ball centre with a good step, and defensively sound. my ONLY ever issue, and its one that tipoki shares with him, is a lack of vision out wide. Pretty much 90%+ of the time they get the ball they choose to step inside, even when there are players and space out wide, and I really do think its the one area that really lets him down. Dunno though, would be interested to see what yee Munster lads think? do you think its bad, or happier he concentrates on his channel to the extent he does?

Tipoki is different though.I dont rate mafi but I like Tipoki.
I remember seeing him in the churchhill cup before Munster recieved him,i think they had already signed him? and he was class.

He is very solid,never does anything ridiculously good but never does anything stupid,a rugby version of steve finnan ,except for eye gouging.:)

sm.org

Amari Helpful Uppermost wrote: »

Tipoki is different though.I dont rate mafi but I like Tipoki.
I remember seeing him in the churchhill cup before Munster recieved him,i think they had already signed him? and he was class.

He is very solid,never does anything ridiculously good but never does anything stupid,a rugby version of steve finnan ,except for eye gouging.:)

Yeah he has a bit of the Doug Howlett mentality in that he does all the basics well and almost never takes the wrong option.

I think your being a bit harsh on Mafi. We got Rua as the complete and finished article, Mafi was a raw sevens specialist when he got here. He's improved steadily each season, if he continues at the current rate then he could be an excellent player this time next year. He's got some good mentors around him.

John_C

thehighground wrote: »

So, you think the connection that Isaac Boss has with Ireland (granny) is somehow 'superior' to :

Mafi who left NZ and is living, working and bringing his kids up in Ireland?

or Paul Warwick who has been here for a few years and whose wife and children are/will be Irish?

That's my opinion in any case.

Podge_irl

I think Mafi plays far better with Tipoki outside him marshalling him. He is far too prone to either going inside on attack or rushing out of the line on defence otherwise. Correct me if I am wrong (and it is possible) but was it not Mafi who rushed out of defence and left the space for Rocokoko for his try in the Munster game, after Tipoki had left the field. He has definitely improved in this regard, but he still lack the nuance (and dare I say intelligence) for international level rugby anyway.

sm.org

sm.org wrote: »

Yeah he has a bit of the Doug Howlett mentality in that he does all the basics well and almost never takes the wrong option.

I think your being a bit harsh on Mafi. We got Rua as the complete and finished article, Mafi was a raw sevens specialist when he got here. He's improved steadily each season, if he continues at the current rate then he could be an excellent player this time next year. He's got some good mentors around him.

Hes 26 and played for the all blacks under 19 and 21 union teams and a few seasons in the hurricanes squad,so he is as developed regards union as he will ever be.Hes a very strong crash ball specialist with a step He does a job though,I just dont like him as a player and feel rua makes him look better than he is.

Serenity Now!

thehighground wrote: »

So, you think the connection that Isaac Boss has with Ireland (granny) is somehow 'superior' to :

Mafi who left NZ and is living, working and bringing his kids up in Ireland?

or Paul Warwick who has been here for a few years and whose wife and children are/will be Irish?

Thats all irrelevant anyway as is the "They're not Paddys. Listen to their accents!" argument. Simon Geoghegan isn't Irish. The Easterbys aren't Irish. Having an Irish grand-relative is less convincing than residency, in my opinion.
Things are fine the way they are. Once you play 7s or 'A' level for a country, thats your country and you may not 'transfer' like players were able to up until 2000.
Mafi, whatever people may think he is, in the eyes of the IRB is a Kiwi. An overseas player contracted by a branch of the IRFU to play for a region.

Stev_o

Podge_irl wrote: »

I think Mafi plays far better with Tipoki outside him marshalling him. He is far too prone to either going inside on attack or rushing out of the line on defence otherwise. Correct me if I am wrong (and it is possible) but was it not Mafi who rushed out of defence and left the space for Rocokoko for his try in the Munster game, after Tipoki had left the field. He has definitely improved in this regard, but he still lack the nuance (and dare I say intelligence) for international level rugby anyway.

Yup he is a very firm believer of the one up rush defence and 70% of the time though in fairness to him it works and he ll either cause a fumble or a loss of ground. But that said he leaves gaping holes in the midfield or in case of Clermount just means the outhalf can catch out ROG and get in. Its a gamble but it works for him most of the time, the problem is when Munster play a side with a great 10 and traditional 12 who should in theory just grubber it in behind the huge space he's leave open and cause mayhem in the Munster defence.

Serenity Now!

Stev_o wrote: »

Yup he is a very firm believer of the one up rush defence and 70% of the time though in fairness to him it works and he ll either cause a fumble or a loss of ground. But that said he leaves gaping holes in the midfield or in case of Clermount just means the outhalf can catch out ROG and get in. Its a gamble but it works for him most of the time, the problem is when Munster play a side with a great 10 and traditional 12 who should in theory just grubber it in behind the huge space he's leave open and cause mayhem in the Munster defence.

Best Munster centre, in my opinion, was Halstead. The difference he made was huge. Strong runner who was great at not only finding the break but straightening the line as well organising the defensive side of things. A very tough act to follow. Not that Mafi and Tipoki are bad signings. Far from it.

thehighground

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Thats all irrelevant anyway as is the "They're not Paddys. Listen to their accents!" argument. Simon Geoghegan isn't Irish. The Easterbys aren't Irish. Having an Irish grand-relative is less convincing than residency, in my opinion.
Things are fine the way they are. Once you play 7s or 'A' level for a country, thats your country and you may not 'transfer' like players were able to up until 2000.
Mafi, whatever people may think he is, in the eyes of the IRB is a Kiwi. An overseas player contracted by a branch of the IRFU to play for a region.

Mafi was born in Tonga and has Tongan patents and grandparents, but brought up in NZ. Should he ever have been allowed play for NZ underage & 7s? Its just not so straightforward as you think it is.

btw, I take it you voted 'no' (if you were old enough) to the Good Friday Agreement - because if you voted 'Yes' you would have agreed to this principle: recognition of the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may so choose; I think its a basic human right to be able to decide your own nationality. Its not straightforward in any way because there may be people playing for Ireland who actually consider themselves to be British, carry British passports but are recognised by the IRB as being eligible to play for Ireland

Its really up to Simon Geoghegan and the Easterbys to decide if they are Irish, English or both, not you. And they chose to play for Ireland rather than England (and they would have made the England team) and probably would have achieved a lot more with England.

Stev_o

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Best Munster centre, in my opinion, was Halstead. The difference he made was huge. Strong runner who was great at not only finding the break but straightening the line as well organising the defensive side of things. A very tough act to follow. Not that Mafi and Tipoki are bad signings. Far from it.

Yeah agree Halstead gave Munster direction but a very one dimensional game plan so it is nice to see Munster use a bit of width.......well props will agree that the ball going pass the 1st centre is WAY too much width :P

Serenity Now!

thehighground wrote: »

Mafi was born in Tonga and has Tongan patents and grandparents, but brought up in NZ. Should he ever have been allowed play for NZ underage & 7s? Its just not so straightforward as you think it is

Yes, he should have been eligible to play for NZ. Why? Because he was brought up there and played all his rugby there.
It is that straightforward. He's a Kiwi and was brought up a Kiwi. As you say below, it was his choice.

thehighground wrote: »

btw, I take it you voted 'no' (if you were old enough) to the Good Friday Agreement - because if you voted 'Yes' you would have agreed to this principle: recognition of the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may so choose; I think its a basic human right to be able to decide your own nationality. Its not straightforward in any way because there may be people playing for Ireland who actually consider themselves to be British, carry British passports but are recognised by the IRB as being eligible to play for Ireland

Its really up to Simon Geoghegan and the Easterbys to decide if they are Irish, English or both, not you. And they chose to play for Ireland rather than England (and they would have made the England team) and probably would have achieved a lot more with England.

If you read what I posted, you would see that, in my opinion, is irrelevant. The point I made was that once you make your choice then that, as they say, is it. So long as they qualify, then no problem.
I wasn't the one who objected to someone playing for another country that they declare for via qualification. Another poster did.

Not being able to switch around country to country is important for the game. An international transfer market makes a mockery of the sport hence my support for the IRB's ruling on the matter.

sm.org

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Best Munster centre, in my opinion, was Halstead. The difference he made was huge. Strong runner who was great at not only finding the break but straightening the line as well organising the defensive side of things. A very tough act to follow. Not that Mafi and Tipoki are bad signings. Far from it.

Halstead made Murphy look like an international 13, he's a freakin genius:)

Bill-e

I think that if you feel a sense of pride in your country when you put on that green jersey then you are Irish. However, how could this be measured.

If you have irish parents or irish children then that makes you kindof irish imo. I've lived and worked in a number of places for many years but I only ever felt irish...

[Jackass]

sm.org wrote: »

He's not good enough to be an All Black. In fairness when he was capped for Fiji in 2003 NZ had a wealth of better players in his position/s.

Honestly he wouldn't get near the AB's current team and I'm not saying that because he's now a Blue.

My point was more about the unlikely rule change.

But you've probably seen him play, what 1 game? A debut? Maybe 2 or 3 since he hasn't played much more over here.

But while in NZ he was one of the stand out backs in the entire S14, he had his legal case brough forward by the New Zealand rugby union. So it's not that "he wouldn't get near an ABs team", they tried and failed through legal action to have permission to have him in the squad.

Always happens with Leinster signings, if they don't look amazing in all of their first dozen games they're sh*te, despite playing 18 months of rugby.."Aw Rocky's sh*te, only scored 15 points in 8 games from 6 and has one of the biggest carry rates in the league and Europe" - "CJ is sh*te, hasn't absolutely destroyed every opposition in every scrum this year" - "Aw Nacewa is sh*te, he's only scored 11 points from 2 starts (not as first choice kicker) with no set position and played 10 - 15 mins with a broken arm - no excuse for missing that tackle v Ospreys"

:rolleyes:

Crash

I would say there is another side to the Nacewa thing though - he's the best example of a player who essentially has lost an international career thanks to foolish decision making concerning the Fiji issue. So he's the perfect poster boy for changing the rules, and I'd say thats at least a small part of why the NZRU are funding his challenge.

Anyhow, this all really is off topic to the debate of Mafi as a player, we should really move back towards centre on this :P (no pun intended)

Sundy

Excellent point there jackass, Nacewa was easily one of the stand out players in the S14 2007. Infact he provided Dougie Howlett with some of his tries. Took the fly half position off Luke McAllister. Voted best player in the Air New Zealand Cup. Scored 208 points in 44 games for the Blues, not too shabby at all.

now back to mafi