Retailers in Waterford

Sully

So now that people are shopping for their Christmas Presents for friends and family, with the recession eating away at your usual budget and with retailers crying out for business - are you giving them business in Waterford? Are you going over the border maybe?

I'm tempted to go shopping over the border. I tried to buy a phone from o2 (retailing at €400 in o2, €380 in other stores and €325 of eBay). o2 wont budge at all on the price. Not a cent.

Heard a story about someone who went shopping in town for a load of clothes for family in a well known local clothes shop near McDonald's. Regular shopper there. Came to €300 in total at the till with a returns policy of New Years Eve. The manager of the store refused to budge on the price, so she didn't buy them.

I find it shocking that these retailers are crying out for business yet they are happy to charge high prices and refuse to negotiate with customers. Even local businesses are winging in the paper about how poor business is yet they refuse to give way on price.

kensutz

I couldn't be bothered buying in town. Trip up North next week is planned.

Jambo

If your looking for discounts keep well away from the large
British Multiples \ Chains in the town and head to your local retaillers or franchises which are operated by local business people, In my experience once you buy more than one item the price is generally rounded down and if its a decent enough spend you can expect in region of a 10 to 15 % markdown without requesting it .

Im sure last week I heard a rep from rgdata on the last word saying he never heard of a customer who looked for a discount not getting one !

To be totally honest with sterling so low at the moment ( Approx £1 = €1.10 ) the consumer should be able to ask for a decent markdown with their purchase as the euro conversion rates displayed on the products price ticket is always way off the mark.

Sully

The retailer who refused a discount on the €300 sale was a private local store owned by a local business person. I guess the larger companies wont, some might, but its probably harder. o2 have really annoyed me as I have been using them for years and spent a lot on phones and credit.

seanybiker

Bought presents online. Dont care if Im not helping the local communiy. their not helping me so why would I pay more just to keep them greedy fookers in business.

ex_infantry man

well they do say that consumers should shop with there feet and search around for the good bargains, i always pop into jamie in jc originals for my clothes as he looks after ya with a discount if you buy a few things off him always!!!!

durrus

As someone who works in retail and knows first hand just how bad things have been for the last number of months I am surprised that the shop in question didn't show some leeway on discount or added value for that sale. Of course every case is different and we don't know all of the facts here - was the stock already reduced maybe? There have been a lot of 'spot' sales in clothing stores in town and there may not have been scope for any more discount. Notwithstanding any of that, it is a brave retailer who allows a sale to walk out the door at the moment. Come January/February there WILL be closures (my own job is not safe) and there will be a lot of retail staff joining the dole queue.

wmpdd3

Yes I think we should put prices on products only as decoration and make up the discounts we offer to people at the till based on the mood we feel in.

Stores that offer discounts are selling too high anyway. It would have to be budgeted like each other outgoing. So we save on light and heat and give a 10% discount to all customers spending over a set amount.

What about when you stop offering the discount.
Is it discrimination if you don't the discount the next time you shop there?

What if th person in front of you gets it and you don't?

Too much hassle, free market prices are set and they will fluctuate based on market forces.

Sully

durrus wrote: »

As someone who works in retail and knows first hand just how bad things have been for the last number of months I am surprised that the shop in question didn't show some leeway on discount or added value for that sale. Of course every case is different and we don't know all of the facts here - was the stock already reduced maybe? There have been a lot of 'spot' sales in clothing stores in town and there may not have been scope for any more discount. Notwithstanding any of that, it is a brave retailer who allows a sale to walk out the door at the moment. Come January/February there WILL be closures (my own job is not safe) and there will be a lot of retail staff joining the dole queue.

Well this specific shop had no offers on and the prices in question were normal. The retailer may not have known the customer was a regular but the staff member most certainly did and even apologised to her as she left! The store is in Waterford many years so its a bit of a shock to see this manager wasn't pushed. With regards to the returns offer - Debenhams allow 28 days in general and up to the 31st of January if the product was a gift.

I believe Shaws have taken off the VAT from products they have on sale. Other stores have plenty of special offers around including the bigger retailers. Still probably could be cheaper!

chrism2007

this person that wouldnt give a discount. was it there shop? or was it just someone who worked there.

maybe it wasnt there decision to drop the price

ec18

Sully wrote: »

The retailer who refused a discount on the €300 sale was a private local store owned by a local business person. I guess the larger companies wont, some might, but its probably harder. o2 have really annoyed me as I have been using them for years and spent a lot on phones and credit.

You do know the phone prices are fixed by o2 and they have to record the serial number of every phone sold and fax them to o2. If you want a discount for being an o2 customer try the online store.....they gave me a loyalty discount earlier this year

KevIRL

Sully wrote: »

o2 have really annoyed me as I have been using them for years and spent a lot on phones and credit.

Get a bill phone imo

durrus

Here's another annoying thing - actually it's illegal - my wife was looking at a particular electrical item in an electrical store located close to WLR. The price was 699.00. Then she heard an ad on the radio that there was 150.00 off all of those particular electrical items. She goes in, expecting to pay 549.00 - instead, the poster says "was 800.00, now 650.00".

People get fooled by these things all the time. TK MAxx has made a business out of putting prices on things that bear no relation to what price they could have been bought for to make it look like the discount is bigger than it is. There is no law against this.

There is also no law against Gift Vouchers having an expiry date - something I absolutely hate.

Sully

ec18 wrote: »

You do know the phone prices are fixed by o2 and they have to record the serial number of every phone sold and fax them to o2. If you want a discount for being an o2 customer try the online store.....they gave me a loyalty discount earlier this year

No discount on o2 website. They wont give a discount because the phone is to new and popular apparently (so an agent in an o2 store on Grafton St. in Dublin said).

KevIRL wrote: »

Get a bill phone imo

Was considering, they told me id be spending a lot more as right now im getting unlimited free texts and I wont if I switch. Phones a good bit cheaper on Bill Pay too.

durrus wrote: »

There is also no law against Gift Vouchers having an expiry date - something I absolutely hate.

Its being brought in, slowly but surely.

Trick of the Tail

durrus wrote: »

People get fooled by these things all the time. TK MAxx has made a business out of putting prices on things that bear no relation to what price they could have been bought for to make it look like the discount is bigger than it is. There is no law against this.

I think there is.

I think an item has to have been sold at the higher price for a minumum of 30 days prior to the sale price being applied.

A.

Sully

chrism2007 wrote: »

this person that wouldnt give a discount. was it there shop? or was it just someone who worked there.

maybe it wasnt there decision to drop the price

Well it was the manager of the store. The previous owner passed away a few months back so im not sure who owns it now. He used to manage it as well IIRC.

durrus

alinton wrote: »

I think there is.

I think an item has to have been sold at the higher price for a minumum of 30 days prior to the sale price being applied.

A.

This is correct and this law would apply to the electrical retailer as outlined but there is no law to prevent a retailer putting ANY price on an item and saying that is the normal rrp. i.e. A jacket which is for sale in normal stores at, say, 250.00 will be marked in TKMaxx as "Was 350.00, now 199.00". I'm just using this as an example. There is no law against this.

durrus

Sully wrote: »

No discount on o2 website. They wont give a discount because the phone is to new and popular apparently (so an agent in an o2 store on Grafton St. in Dublin said).



Was considering, they told me id be spending a lot more as right now im getting unlimited free texts and I wont if I switch. Phones a good bit cheaper on Bill Pay too.



Its being brought in, slowly but surely.

I work in retail and the store I work in has no expiry date on vouchers - we have accepted vouchers that were ten years old and battered no problem. I am not aware of any move by the Consumer Affairs Office or Goverment to bring in any legislation on Gift Vouchers, I just think people should ask these questions when they are buying the voucher. Some places have really tight deadlines on their usage - I've seen vouchers that have to be used within 6 months.

KevIRL

Sully wrote: »

Was considering, they told me id be spending a lot more as right now im getting unlimited free texts and I wont if I switch. Phones a good bit cheaper on Bill Pay too.

Is it an iphone Sully? Im assuming it is. If so the Eirtext app will take care of your texting needs

Sully

KevIRL wrote: »

Is it an iphone Sully? Im assuming it is. If so the Eirtext app will take care of your texting needs

Nope, Nokia E71 I know about a lot of those text programs, never used em really!

King Ludvig

Sorry for highjacking the thread (maybe you can help me out tho sully).

Anyone know if there a HMV or Virgin megastores in Waterford or surrounding areas? And if so where? Google wasnt much help! :rolleyes:

Ive got gift cards for of them so may aswell use them to buy some of this years presents!!

Sully

HMV is in Cork. Virgin (Zavvi now) is in Kilkenny and Cork.

Probably the closest to us?

Sooner one of these comes to Waterford the better!!!

A bit of an update.. Spoke to the lady today who told me the story. She got the clothes in another store who even gave her a discount :P She went to the sister store of the one she had a problem with and they promissed to give her a good deal if she shopped there. Funny how it all works out. Im still miles away from a cheaper phone though :P

ziedth

Hey Sully,

I can't speak about the Clothes shop sale, but i'm indirectly involved with the 02 shop down there by City Square (assuming thats where you went about the Nokia phone). Someone else said it earlyier they couldn't give any kind of a discount all prices are set by 02 and AFAIK 02 go mental if every cent is accounted for down there,

In my younger days I would have siad to hell with local retailers but since I know work in the industry I TRY to do the majority of my shopping locally in waterford based companies,

They are not helping their cause by being so harsh the story Sully mentioned in particular makes me sick seeing as there at least a 100-150% profit Margin on clothes.

Partizan

The majority of Irish retailers have been ripping us off for years and when the show is on the other foot, are crying wolf. Well **** them. I'll be back in Waterford next week and will do my shopping in John Michael's on John Street, Gregory's Menswear on Patrick Street and JC's where Jamie always fixes me up on the discount. Johnny de Courcy has been doing business with the family for years so I always go out of my way to shop there where I have an account. Greg all gives me 10% discount on the spot. Cant beat that. Good honest guys looking out for their regular customers.

Wouldnt go near Heroes, total rip off and selection is crap.

Sully

I tired 2 stores on grafton st. in dublin. One asked his boss who said no as the phone was to new. The other simply said no. Same as the waterford store. However, iv been sorted. Kinda. O2 matched the price of the phone and someone else is looking into me getting it at an upgrade price. So here is hoping!

Partizan

Train to Newry.

Baby4

This post has been deleted.

old gregg

yes it will be interesting to see the local shops that fleeced everyone during the good times, including the shoe store that always had the crappiest Jan sale (anyone for white moccasins) crying fair play now that the supply/demand balance has tipped back in the customer's favour somewhat.

p.s. Jamie in jc originals is a legend for sure ex_infantry man

ec18

Partizan wrote: »

Train to Newry.

Mightn't be that easy phones up there could be locked to the uk o2 network

old gregg wrote: »

p.s. Jamie in jc originals is a legend for sure ex_infantry man

very true!

Trotter

I went into 2 local shops with €350 looking for a PS3. I told them I was going to the North over the next fortnight and I'd prefer to spend my money locally. Neither offered me a discount and basically both said.. go to Newry.

I tried!

Sully

Id love to send this thread to WLR and local press as an example of why people are going north. Fed up of local retailers screwing us and not even during a time of recession wanting our custom below the price they set. And WLR have the cheek to ask us to shop locally!

Minto

I was in a certain shop today, related to the one Sully mentioned earlier in the thread.
I was the only customer in the shop, had just picked up a very expensive shirt and was about to threat myself, when I heard the manager, who had just said "hi" to me, informed one of the employees that no discounts were to be given to anyone, under any circumstances. I put the shirt straight back down and left the shop. I normaly threat myself to a few bits and pieces from the shop every now and then, but it'll be a while before I go back there again. The nets cheaper anyway. :P

Just thought I'd let people know the spirit of scrooge is still alive and well in Barronstrand Street!

Sully

Shocking really. Excellent decission walking out of there, take your business elsewhere. The bigger retailers are happily giving discounts around the place. Wallis, Debenhams and Shaws are just three that I spotted over the weekend having big discount posters. I wonder do some businesses bring this on themselves. Terrible.

rasper

I'm surprised that everyone assumes that it is the small retailers are the sole reason for the higher prices, the reason is we live in a high cost economy and this effects everything in this state, we're an inefficient economy with a high wage cost due to being one of the highest cost of living in Europe.
This is the governments fault for letting the whole system boil over, the fact is the retailer is just the last reseller of a goods item after everyone has their slice with higher charges on top. Good thing at least now the consumer has copped on and acted now at least some change can be planned at least , unfortunately it is a bit late now and theres worse to come yet

sunnysoutheast

I don't think you can compare the international retailers who have massive buying power, almost permanent "sales" as a strategy, and huge volume with local independent retailers.

I'd suggest that in most cases the staff were not actually empowered to give any discount and/or had been specifically forbidden from doing so. The only way you're going to get any discount, at all, on a hot product like a new phone is if you make a contractual commitment. The staff will not have any discretion to vary this, although you might get a car kit or something thrown in if you pay the sticker price.

Can you seriously imagine a scenario where the shopper selects their goods, gets to the till point and then starts negotiating the price? In every shop? Every time? It'd be like Cairo! I'd like to see someone try it in Guineys.

Remember that if you buy a PS3 in Newry you'll have to take it back there if it goes wrong.

I've no connection to any of the shops mentioned/inferred, except to say that my experience in the shop in B'stand St was fine.

SSE

Aquos76

Sully wrote: »

Shocking really. Excellent decission walking out of there, take your business elsewhere. The bigger retailers are happily giving discounts around the place. Wallis, Debenhams and Shaws are just three that I spotted over the weekend having big discount posters. I wonder do some businesses bring this on themselves. Terrible.

I wouldn't take much notice of Wallis or Debenhams, they have been ripping off their customers for months now which there sterling exchange rates. These 25% off sales they have been having lately, are there way of bringing the prices down to somewhere close to the sterling equivalent.

Trotter

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

Remember that if you buy a PS3 in Newry you'll have to take it back there if it goes wrong.

I'll take my chances. That was only one example. I looked for a quote from a local printer last week for 100 booklets, and got no reply. I emailed again and got the one line reply along the lines of.. How many pages do you want??

No thanks, no sorry for the delay etc.

By that stage I'd already bought them elsewhere.

A friend of mine was looking to buy a piece of unusual home furniture and saw it on an Irish based online site, not a million miles from us. It was 3 times the price as an online site in the UK, delivery included.

He emailed the Irish one very politely to see was the price correct, because he too had listen to the "buy Irish" line we're being fed.

He got a mail back saying not to tell them how to run their business!!

When the reply was sent saying there was no need for the tone of the company's email, he received another reply basically saying go ahead and spend your foreign money, we're selling a load of these anyway.

Ho Ho Ho!

I'll spend my money wherever I see value. I've zero loyalty to any shop unless I feel they're being fair. If a local shop offers me very good service and comes within a decent amount of what it can be got for in the UK, I'll go local.

With a hint of a bad attitude though, I'll walk out the door, as should everyone else.

sunnysoutheast

Trotter wrote: »

I'll take my chances. That was only one example. I looked for a quote from a local printer last week for 100 booklets, and got no reply. I emailed again and got the one line reply along the lines of.. How many pages do you want??

No thanks, no sorry for the delay etc.

By that stage I'd already bought them elsewhere.

A friend of mine was looking to buy a piece of unusual home furniture and saw it on an Irish based online site, not a million miles from us. It was 3 times the price as an online site in the UK, delivery included.

He emailed the Irish one very politely to see was the price correct, because he too had listen to the "buy Irish" line we're being fed.

He got a mail back saying not to tell them how to run their business!!

When the reply was sent saying there was no need for the tone of the company's email, he received another reply basically saying go ahead and spend your foreign money, we're selling a load of these anyway.

Ho Ho Ho!

I'll spend my money wherever I see value. I've zero loyalty to any shop unless I feel they're being fair. If a local shop offers me very good service and comes within a decent amount of what it can be got for in the UK, I'll go local.

With a hint of a bad attitude though, I'll walk out the door, as should everyone else.

I'm not disagreeing that service often leaves a lot to be desired and that products can often be bought cheaper in the UK, even before the recent collapse in Sterling.

My point, however, is that you can scarcely expect a business to accept random offers from every TD&H who walks in off the street, particularly in a busy queue in public. If you're spending €5k then a quiet word with the manager might be in order. Why would anyone give a discount on one shirt or PS3 coming up to Christmas?

Customers are free to shop wherever they like, and clearly the shop owners are free to set their pricing policy.

SSE

Trotter

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

Customers are free to shop wherever they like, and clearly the shop owners are free to set their pricing policy.

SSE

I agree, but in an environment where the efforts from "those on high" are to bring those two elements together in order to keep the money being spent in the state, shopkeepers have to decide if they want X amount of profit, or that warm feeling that they managed to keep their pricing structure intact.

You cant pay suppliers with warm feelings though.

I see what you mean about a free for all happening but in reality it wont happen. All it takes is for customers to feel that they've been looked after. This can take the form of a discount, or, from outstanding service.

Lets be honest, Ireland hasn't got a good reputation for option 2 there either.

The reality is though that yes its Christmas, yes people are spending, but yes, theres a glaringly obvious alternative now thats damn attractive. Can a Waterford based company bridge the gap of €50 for the PS3 through excellent service, and a decent price? Absolutely. Do they all want to? No. I firmly believe some retailers think that they'll wake up tomorrow and the times for screwing the punters will have returned. The clogged road to Newry should be a wake up call to all retailers in Waterford and beyond that the customer has firmly slapped the ball into their court.. and about time too.

wmpdd3

Anybody here woirking in retail?
These local business are already costing their Janurary sales, If they don't have the money for the discounts needed to bring in the sales in line with outgoings, which member of staff do they get rid of?

I have no doubt that prices will come down, but staffing levels will be cut. By next year staffing levels will be at 1998 levels as will customer service. For get floor staff, customer services desks, checkout que control, longer open hours and change of mind polices.

Speaking to local business people, they are closely studying each months profit and loss account and looking for savings. One thing that keeps comming up is change of mind. Returns at the level of department stores can criple a small store.

Also larger stores are looking at this as a cost saving tool. If they are offering deep discounts they can't afford to take back stock at one price and put it back on sale at a lower price. Be sure many department stores will be revising their policies very soon.

I always said we should have offered a 20% discount on our stock if the customer waived their option to return the item, many agreed but it was deemed un inforcable.

sunnysoutheast

Trotter wrote: »

The clogged road to Newry should be a wake up call to all retailers in Waterford and beyond that the customer has firmly slapped the ball into their court.. and about time too.

Well time will tell. I think it is virtually impossible for local retailers, particularly smaller ones, to approach NI prices given the current virtual parity with Sterling and Ireland's higher cost base. Even more so if there is any attempt to maintain service quality.

Sadly I think we've seen the high water mark for retailing in our City, at least in the short term. I'd expect some closures next year, no doubt replaced with pound shops. There must be massive question marks over the Newgate Centre now too.

SSE

durrus

I work in a small retail outlet in Waterford and here's how it's working for us: Our sales are down about 30% on last year since September, staff have been left go, the boss is getting paid for three weeks out of four and is working 7 days a week. Some stock has been sent back because there is no money to pay for it. We only sell one line of product which we buy in sterling and the price of that has been reduced - even though the sterling supplier has put his prices up because he's paying for the product in dollars.

All of us have been told that where possible, no customer is to be refused a small discount if requested except for small item sales.

While it seems that many people here believe that retailers were carrying the cash out in wheelbarrows for the last few years I think the reality for a lot of SMALLER retailers is that they were just finding it easier to stay in business than it used to be and now it's a lot more difficult to stay in business. Of all the people to sling arrows at for the boom times I think small retailers would be low on the list. One person said to my boss "Oh well, at least you have the cash from the good times to carry you." My boss said to me afterwards "There never was any cash, just a lower overdraft." I think that's what it is really like to run a small, single outlet retail business in Ireland.

gscully

Sully, have you tried shopping online for a sim-free phone? I wanted a N73 a year ago and had no hope of a reasonable offer from O2, so I got one on pixmania.com instead. Quite cheap too...and delivered promptly via courier.

gscully

This thread has generated a bit of discussion about discounts and retailers, so how about, in these times of hardship, we start a new sticky along the lines of the cheapest petrol thread?

Let's have a thread that shows the retailers that provided consumers with discounts and reward them for having the cop-on to recognise the recession...and at the same time, let's name and shame (as long as it's factually correct) the retailers that refuse to provide a discount.

What say you?

merlante

An interesting discussion lads.

I heard that rents and rates are very high in town -- too high for a place with the catchment population of Waterford -- which is one of the reasons why we have a high turnover of businesses in the city, and probably why the city centre is dominated by large international retailers and a few big local players. Is this part of the problem? Can anyone offer a perspective on this?

I've been thinking that in the future I'd like to open a small business in Waterford, but it doesn't look easy...

Baby4

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Baby4

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echosound

merlante wrote: »

An interesting discussion lads.

I heard that rents and rates are very high in town -- too high for a place with the catchment population of Waterford -- which is one of the reasons why we have a high turnover of businesses in the city, and probably why the city centre is dominated by large international retailers and a few big local players. Is this part of the problem? Can anyone offer a perspective on this?

I've been thinking that in the future I'd like to open a small business in Waterford, but it doesn't look easy...

Completely agree - I was shocked to find out the level of rents and rates for some city centre premises in comparison to what we had been paying while running a small business in another south east location (a large enough centre of population, not a small village or anything) previously. You would be hard pressed to break even after paying rates and rents, let alone pay staff and suppliers, and would need a huge wad of capital behind you for the first few years to make a go of things in Waterford.

It's to the detriment of Waterford that so many retailers are just chain stores, often UK owned, rather than local businesses. NO room for building relationships with customers or offering discounts.

Eg I was shopping with an elderly relative in Carrick on Suir earlier this week, and we were offered discounts galore from various shop owners (many of whom have had the business in their family for generations) without even asking for them as we were recognised by the store owners as being regular customers, and even the staff of the bigger chains (eg supervalu) were friendly and helpful beyond what was required, something that seems to be missing in Waterford.

People will continue to vote with their feet, buying online or in other cities, and Waterford will continue it's slide into depression, with empty units and a deserted city centre, which will of course lead to even more job losses for the city. Vicious cycle.

Trotter

My experience over the past few weeks is that its the small local retailers that have been the ones to "look after" the customers.. and by that I mean through very good personal service and a little discount too.

ToxicPaddy

Not living in Waterford for a number of years I cant really comment on how things are there at the moment, however I have seen a small business (electrical appliances) in a town in the midlands looking after its regulars and giving them discounts, being friendly, having a chat and just in general being welcoming to the customers, as a result they are doing fairly well this year where as many other of their competition are opening, offering big discounts etc and closing within the year..

Its a simple fact that people appreciate being appreciated and even though this place is not the cheapest in town, people know they will be looked after and if there is a problem, they call the store who will sort it for them.

It doesnt take a genius to know that rude staff and inflexible businesses will soon be sufferring as a result of their actions towards customers..

I for one have my regular few smaller retailers I go to as I know the people in them and always feel looked after, some do offer a discount or a freebie, as in if I'm buying a suit or something like they, they throw in a free belt or if I'm buying a few bits they throw in something thats say €10 for free.. just cause Ive spent €100-€150 there.. it all adds up and guarantees I will go back and spread the word to friends and family, they could get 5 times that amount of business from word of mouth without spending a penny on advertising..

As far as someone said about customer service going back to 1985 levels, I would welcome that as back then times were hard and retailers appreciated their customers..

Gadgie

I ordered my Xmas turkey in P. Larkin's last year - I'm still waiting for it.

Disgraceful service. :mad: