Cops - differing standards of fitness?

Random

I've watched a couple of TV shows at this stage (reality ones) about various different law enforcement agencys etc.

e.g. COPs, Wild police chases, Rookies, Road Wars, Street Wars, etc etc along with general observation in the various places I've been in the world.

My thoughts have always been that COPs start off fit and healthy and then they generally just turn to sh!t (excuse the crude language!) because of desk duty, shift work and stress.

Watching Rookies it shows COPs on their first few weeks of training on the street in various US police Depts.

The state of them. One of them sweats when driving the car!

Have I missed something along the way here? Is there no standards in the US? Or are the UK / Garda the same? Looking through the Garda recruitment I keep seeing people going on about fitness, BMI, etc.

Any thoughts?

metman

Random wrote: »

Have I missed something along the way here? Is there no standards in the US? Or are the UK / Garda the same? Looking through the Garda recruitment I keep seeing people going on about fitness, BMI, etc.

Any thoughts?

The Police is no different from any other walk of life; you have fit people and fat people.

The nature of the job itself is not conducive to maintaining a high level of fitness, with shift work, long periods spent sat in a car or in front of a computer, irregular meal breaks/no meal breaks, junk food and a pub culture. Its easy to pile on the poundage as a patrol officer or an office dweller. Specialist units are a bit different as they generally have a higher standard of fitness for entry, and some units will have built in gym time in your daily duty.

Different agencies have differing fitness requirements. UK and Ireland are roughly similar in so far as bmi, grip strength and basic aerobic fitness are tested (not to any high degree mind you) whereas some US agencies have little or no minimum standards for physical fitness.

Random

It's not really talking about the differing standards of fitness after you join the force (I guess that's something that needs to be addressed also though). It's mainly the differing standards as people join. I just find it shocking looking at it sometimes and wonder how agencys can operate like this.




By the way ..
This is the show I'm talking about that I've been watching recently (very interesting watch though!).
http://www.aetv.com/rookies/

eroo

Karlitos, do you get a sense of deja vu?

Cops in the US a good bit of the time are bulky guys. If you look at Louis Theroux's programme on Philadelphia, he rides along with a uniform cop in one instance. It's the part where Louis is talking to those kids on the street corner. The cop with him is a BIG guy, obviously likes his weightlifting! Most of the shows feature cops who are big guys. Maybe the reason is they have built in gyms in their stations.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think most if not all Divisional HQ's have gyms? I know there is one in Henry St.

djtechnics1210

eroo wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think most if not all Divisional HQ's have gyms? I know there is one in Henry St.

Ya but most of the gyms are brutal

eroo

djtechnics1210 wrote: »

Ya but most of the gyms are brutal

What sort of equipment would ye have? I'm guessing it's just full of push/pull machines because that is the best way to train upper body..:pac:

CLADA

eroo wrote: »

What sort of equipment would ye have? I'm guessing it's just full of push/pull machines because that is the best way to train upper body..:pac:

Mostly don't bother with the gear in the station. Find that the two legged push pull machines give a better all round workout.

Push/pull into the car.....push/pull from the car to the cell.

djtechnics1210

CLADA wrote: »

Mostly don't bother with the gear in the station. Find that the two legged push pull machines give a better all round workout.

Push/pull into the car.....push/pull from the car to the cell.

Push the car!!!!!:D

metman

There's a gym at my station, but it doesn't get much use. Last thing I want to do is go in early or stay later than I have to when I'm not on the slate :eek:

TSG and other such units are lucky, they get time every shift to either go to the gym, or play football/volleyball.

eroo

Could Gardai just not organise something with a local gym? Like a discount if ye train there as a group or something?

metman

eroo wrote: »

Could Gardai just not organise something with a local gym? Like a discount if ye train there or something?

Most fitness clubs do emergency services discounts.

eroo

metman wrote: »

Most fitness clubs do emergency services discounts.

I get 1euro off for student discount:rolleyes:, I hope ye get something more appropriate!

timmywex

Of the garda gym that ive seen, nice big room, weights machine in a box in the corner, and full of lockers and files, lift the lockers perhaps?

donvito99

Wow, that rookies show was weird. One deputy on his last week of training is recommended by his FTO, and quits the next day for an unexplained reason. Seems like gun calls are a regular occurence in the states, something that is extremely rare in this country, scary, in'it.

Have any officers on this forum been involved with guns and or knives in quite dangerous situations?

[Must get back on point]

IMO the standard of fitness that I see from new Gardai is very good. Its the auld ones I worry about. I saw a regular beat officer who looked about sixty on patrol today, looked like he needed a zimmer frame or something. I also think that there should be a bleep test and a minimum requirement that you have to meet. There should alsoe the push/pull machine and some other upper body tets. Policing should'nt be for those who are not up to the job. every Garda relies on colleagues for their own safety.Someone who cannot sprint etc should not get the job.

Eru

our station has a great gym in the basement and while never packed you will always see a few lads down there either side of a shift or during their breaks. I also work in a station where the vast majority dont know what the inside of a car looks like. Personally when the mood takes me to actually go into the big bad world I usually arrange with my skipper to go on the beat for the day with someone that wont get pissed off with my rookie like eagerness.

As for police fitness, you can drill and run someone ragged but if they arent arsed about being fit then ultimately they aint going to be fit. Now I have a belly and Im the first to admit that but I only put on a stone in 6 years and still fit my original issue uniform so Im doing well overall but in fairness, I had a belly in Templemore.

On top of that, theres not many jobs out there that will require staff to display a good level of fitness here and there (chases and wrestling matches arent daily occurances but when they happen you need to be able for them) but yet, by their nature are so god damn unhealthy. Its the nature of the job.

So the majority of Gardai are carrying a bit of weight and a decent level of fitness while there are also super fit lads and in contrast, people that lose their breath getting out of the car. Theres reasons for all three, the super fits either play a lot of sport or make it their business to stay in shape, the lard arses evidently dont and never have while the majority in the middle eat a bit unhealthy but still manage the odd salad and bit of sport. Of course then theres family and other factors outside of the job.

I know people will say its not hard to get an hour in the gym twice a week but if you have 3 or 4 young kids and both parents working fulltime then yes, it is.

As for testing throughout service, well setting aside how plausable it is to implement, do you really think a desk jockey with 28 years service and god knows how many minor injuries, knocks and pulled muscles from his life on the streets should be sacked because he can no longer chase and wrestle a 19 or 20 year old?

FGR

Do fellow members feel the mile and a half is as important as it once was? I feel that BMI and diet should be focused upon more so, IMO.

Dr_MaSoN

ForegoneReality wrote: »

Do fellow members feel the mile and a half is as important as it once was? I feel that BMI and diet should be focused upon more so, IMO.

the mile and a half isnt taken seriously at at all, well at least in the college.


We had people coming in at over 17 mins in the last few weeks.

Honestly....thats a joke.

djtechnics1210

In order to be considered for specialist units/promotion in AGS i think you should have to be at a certain grade of fitness and that this grade should be a result of an annual fitness test (like PDF does), this would give people an incentive to keep up fitness. Obviously the grading system takes into account a persons age.
On a side note I saw a task force car the other day, driver and passenger looked around same age... driver looked athletic, passenger looked like he was going to have a heart attack just getting out of the car. IMHO it looks terrible to public

meathmannn

I wonder if we will ever follow the army's new system.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's a yearly medical and if you dont get A1 grade then you cannot perform certain duties, this effects overtime etc.

In general the fitness in the association is bad. Amazingly there isn't as much running as you would expect. Thanks to mobile units, air support, camera operators... you can run, but you can't hide!!

Shift work and bad grub have to be factors, a lot of junior members as well ae away from home for the first time, going out too much, eating crap, changeovers, court on your rest days etc. piling on the weight.

But like any career, excuses are easy. We all know what we need to do to stay in shape.

I think our gyms are great. (bet they are packed in January as usual!)

Of course any specialist unit relying on fitness will pick accordingly.

djtechnics1210

Divisional Task force, drugs, ddu, surveillance units, NBCI, GNDU, GBFI, OCU all classed as specialist units = no fitness requirement though.
Only unit with a requirement that members keep up fitness levels is ERU. Even RSU don't have requirement to keep up fitness.
Iv seen lads on divisional search teams that are exhausted after 15 minutes work!!!!!!!

eroo

ForegoneReality wrote: »

Do fellow members feel the mile and a half is as important as it once was? I feel that BMI and diet should be focused upon more so, IMO.

I think the BMI isn't a very good indicator. Why? Because soon I will be slightly 'overweight' according to the chart. I'm not fat. I'm in fact quite fit. The reason I may fail BMI in the future is because I like my weightlifting, and bulk up's add muscular weight(as well as a small amount of fat). Look at the likes of Paul O Connell or Rob Kearney..they would fail a BMI too but to say you wouldn't want them working with you in a sticky situation is mad! So, if they examine your BMI they should take into account where that weight is coming from imo.

djtechnics1210

But those lads would more than likely pass on calipers id say

tribulus

Interesting thread. A good friend of mine is a Garda and reckons a bit of strength and sprinting stamina are the more important physical requirements. He himself has said the hours mess him up a bit but mainly it was his own laziness but as another poster said he's only young and doesn't have a family to look after etc.

What are serving members opinion of very overweight/obese Gardai? I saw one in Dublin city centre the other day and his rolls of flab were spilling out from under his stab vest - although I'm sure he was at the extreme end of the scale. While you could easily argue how his weight doesn't affect his decision making ability or keeping calm under pressure etc. but as a member of the public I thought it looked absolutely awful if I'm being honest.

Eru

Your friend is right, mopst chases are over short distances.

The image thing, well as you said it 'looked' terrible but remember, hes not a model and it wasnt a cat walk, how a police officer 'looks' isnt even close to a priority for recruitment. The question is, could he actually do his job? Not all fat people are unfit but judging by your description I would say this guy was.

metman

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

The image thing, well as you said it 'looked' terrible but remember, hes not a model and it wasnt a cat walk, how a police officer 'looks' isnt even close to a priority for recruitment

Karlito, I agree with you that just becuase someone's overweight doesn't mean they can't be professional, competent and good at the job.

However IMO appearance does count in a uniformed service. If you look like a bag of sh*t in your uniform, people tend to treat you accordingly.

Exhibit A:



Exhibit B:



Exhibit C:


These cops might be very good at their jobs, but at the same time I'd put money on joe public forming an opinion of them (not a positive one...as for the silly mare with a chicken leg in her gob...well what a professional image she portrays of her sheriff's dept) before they even open their mouths. Human nature.

FGR

Eating in public is a big nono..I'd be very surprised if she wasn't complained about it. People can be like that, y'know..

eroo

Karl hit it on the head right there..if people have no interest in keeping fit, then they aren't going to bother. Still, if fitness testing was brought in that MIGHT change imo.

eroo

djtechnics1210 wrote: »

But those lads would more than likely pass on calipers id say

Ya didn't think of that! Is it a case of fail BMI and calipers, and you are advised to lose weight and come back for another medical??

Eru

ForegoneReality wrote: »

Eating in public is a big nono..I'd be very surprised if she wasn't complained about it. People can be like that, y'know..

Here they are but I find 'police watching' is a much bigger pastime here than it is in the states. The police over there, sit down and eat while on break in coffee shops. They can openly eat, drink and smoke in public. people just dont care over there as long as the cop is patrolling what he looks like isnt an issue.

Eru

city4life wrote: »

i once had a chase that lasted 90 minutes. granted it wasnt all running....in and out of the car too. the stab vests were in about a week, it was a roasting july evening...christ the sweat was pouring out of us.....still got our men though!!






eventually!

Serves you right for not catching him the first time

arybvtcw0eolkf

meathmannn wrote: »

I wonder if we will ever follow the army's new system.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's a yearly medical and if you dont get A1 grade then you cannot perform certain duties, this effects overtime etc.

.

In the defence forces we've a yearly medical and fitness test.

Forgetting the yearly medical for a moment (I thought you guys might have had a yearly med?).

Everyone, regardless of age, sex, service or rank must undergo an annual fitness test, and everyone must achieve at least a 'pass', then depending on career course's or if your intending on going oversea's there's differing grades and its very strictly adherd to.

Obviously a young lad has to acheive different times on their run, local musclure endurance (press ups and sit ups) and terrain walk (a loaded, ie full backpack 10k walk) then an old sweat like me :P with 20 odd years service, so its pretty fair on everyone regardless of age, rank or service.. but not sex

The girls have much lower targets to meet :rolleyes:

I see a lot of over weight guards about and thought you just couldn't be arse with fitness, but when I read the thread on night shifts and see how your rostered - well thats just savage. I couldn't imagine spending twenty years working those shifts whilst maintaining a healthy life style.

You guys must have a massive amount of sick days due to stress, unhealthy working hours and lack of medical/fitness tests?.

TheNog

Mairt wrote: »

I see a lot of over weight guards about and thought you just couldn't be arse with fitness, but when I read the thread on night shifts and see how your rostered - well thats just savage. I couldn't imagine spending twenty years working those shifts whilst maintaining a healthy life style.

You guys must have a massive amount of sick days due to stress, unhealthy working hours and lack of medical/fitness tests?.

The shifts are fairly tough alright and while the AGS have made inroads to include older people joining there is one particular rule that hampers the likes of myself. I have a young family with both kids in school but I still had to be stationed in excess of 20 miles from my home. For me its 32 miles one way which takes almost one hour travel time. So on a changeover I get roughly 5 hours sleep before starting a new shift.

For the younger fellas they can move close to their station and get the required rest between shifts.

The GRA did raise the issue of the shift pattern recently in the Review and I think the UK shift pattern is easier on the body than our current one. I could see sick days, stress being reduced significantly and would promote a fitter and healthier lifestyle. Hopefully it will come to pass.

Niallface

I'm in college 9:30 to 17:00 5days a week, I train 14 hours a week and maintain a high level of fitness, I can basically run for ever.
so here is a student taking time out of his already tight schedule to train and yet our police force can't all maintain a decent level of fitness. cops jobs should be on the line if they can't regular fitness tests. what happens if a cop has to chase me? bring in chopper support?

CLADA

Niallface wrote: »

I'm in college 9:30 to 17:00 5days a week, I train 14 hours a week and maintain a high level of fitness, I can basically run for ever.
so here is a student taking time out of his already tight schedule to train and yet our police force can't all maintain a decent level of fitness. cops jobs should be on the line if they can't regular fitness tests. what happens if a cop has to chase me? bring in chopper support?

9.30 to 5, then home for tea, an hour of telly and out training for a couple of hours, a shower, back home and relax for the rest of the evening before a full nights sleep.
Even though it's a distant memory I do recall those halcyon days.

Tight schedule:mad: wait till the big bad world gets its hands on you.

Tight schedule my arce :rolleyes:

TheNog

Niallface wrote: »

I'm in college 9:30 to 17:00 5days a week, I train 14 hours a week and maintain a high level of fitness, I can basically run for ever.
so here is a student taking time out of his already tight schedule to train and yet our police force can't all maintain a decent level of fitness. cops jobs should be on the line if they can't regular fitness tests.

Lets be honest here, you are a student and your schedule is not that tight really. When you have kids then come back to me.

Niallface wrote: »

what happens if a cop has to chase me? bring in chopper support?

I might throw my torch at you but I like it too much (has sentimental value) but I would probably just follow you in the car. There is always another option.

metman

Niallface wrote: »

taking time out of his already tight schedule

LOL I take it you're doing a degree in drama? Hilarious .....:rolleyes:

djtechnics1210

Niallface wrote: »

I'm in college 9:30 to 17:00 5days a week, I train 14 hours a week and maintain a high level of fitness, I can basically run for ever.
so here is a student taking time out of his already tight schedule to train and yet our police force can't all maintain a decent level of fitness. cops jobs should be on the line if they can't regular fitness tests. what happens if a cop has to chase me? bring in chopper support?

Run Boy Run..... The Nog gonna catch you and then what gonna happen
You could run around the corner into a different crew in a patrol car too...... very hard for a human to outrun a 2.0 mondeo, or any mechanically propelled vehicle for that matter.
Or god forbid the Garda chasing you is actually fitter and faster than you.... then what :eek:
Id say if you worked a week of nights you'd probably collapse.

djtechnics1210

TheNog wrote: »

There is always another option.

Im curious?????

TheNog

djtechnics1210 wrote: »

Im curious?????

That was my plan all along


mmmmoooooohhhhaaaaaaaa

eroo

Niallface wrote: »

I'm in college 9:30 to 17:00 5days a week, I train 14 hours a week and maintain a high level of fitness, I can basically run for ever.
so here is a student taking time out of his already tight schedule to train and yet our police force can't all maintain a decent level of fitness. cops jobs should be on the line if they can't regular fitness tests. what happens if a cop has to chase me? bring in chopper support?

I'm in college 9-4 most days, and I still couldn't be arsed taking up running again. Must make a note to stop going to class parties, friends apartments..best stop having fun and get myself a tight schedule! Then I can prove to all them Gardai that it is so easy to train, just forget about life. Lads listen up, forget about yer family, friends and social life..work and train instead. It's simple really:rolleyes:

FGR

The thought of going in tonight has made me feel like I've just done 10k.

And I got up at 3pm!

deadwood

Niallface wrote: »

what happens if a cop has to chase me? bring in chopper support?

Eru

Niallface wrote: »

I'm in college 9:30 to 17:00 5days a week, I train 14 hours a week and maintain a high level of fitness, I can basically run for ever.
so here is a student taking time out of his already tight schedule to train and yet our police force can't all maintain a decent level of fitness. cops jobs should be on the line if they can't regular fitness tests. what happens if a cop has to chase me? bring in chopper support?

Jesus, a student claiming a 40 hour week? 40 hours drinking sounds closer. The bacon must have been flying back to the plants

You do realise that most people here have done something you havent? Like finished college, gotten grown up jobs and had to fend for themselves and their families.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

You do realise that most people here have done something you havent? Like finished college, gotten grown up jobs and had to fend for themselves and their families.

Do you realise the guy is winding you lads up?.

I'm surprised you all took the time to respond to him.

Back to the topic because I'm interested in it.

Do you guys have an annual medical?.

And have any representative bodies looked at the Defence Forces fitness model and considered bringing in something similar?. Although I think you'd have to sort out that shift you lads are working first.

Although I compete against the Garda Judo Team often enough those guys have an interest in fighting Judo and fitness so there's no need for employer encouragement, however not everyone in the Defence Forces have an interest in sports and fitness either, but like I said earlier, oversea's service, for extending your service and for course's you MUST have at least a pass in your fitness test, and depending on the course there's certain grades to achieve too, ie ARW - Parachute - PTi and any course/vacancie in Defence Forces School of Physical Culture etc are a grade 1 requirement (which is considered a very advanced stage of fitness).