Is the day approaching..

arybvtcw0eolkf

When Irish citizens will routinely arm themselves?.

In light of the shooting of that young lad in Finglas, Campbell the young plumber. The murder of the Rugby player in Limerick and last nights murder of that innocent man in Eastwall, Dublin and the general escalation in lawless behaviour on our streets do you think its better to be tried by twelve than carried by six?.

I think if I'm harrassed in my home now I'll be going out with my shotgun and dogs in tow, just in case.

AvrilLavigne

Too right! When it comes to protecting you and yours, all rules are out!

javaboy

Charlton Heston is my president.

bleg

i keep dogs that shoot bees out of their mouths in case of an event like this

arybvtcw0eolkf

bleg wrote: »

i keep dogs that shoot bees out of their mouths in case of an event like this

And my dogs piss naplam.. bring on the hooded hordes I says.

January

Poor man... it's like the teacher that got killed a couple of years ago in Dublin 15 for chasing some people that were trying to rob his car...

Indie18

Mairt wrote: »

do you think its better to be tried by twelve than carried by six?.

Always. I would rather lose a few years of my life in prison for some little scum bag than have him or her take my life from me.

4zn76tysfajdxp

Mairt wrote: »

I think if I'm harrassed in my home now I'll be going out with my shotgun and dogs in tow, just in case.

That's fine because you'll know what you're doing. The rest of us are fúcked.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Indie18 wrote: »

Always. I would rather lose a few years of my life in prison for some little scum bag than have him or her take my life from me.

That would be called self defence... and you probably wouldn't do any time for it.

Pre-emptive murder is something else and you deserve to be called scum and put in prison for 20+ years.

By all means, protect yourself and your family, but do not pass judgement yourself on someone and kill them, that is retarded...

arybvtcw0eolkf

Opal Shy Festival wrote: »

That's fine because you'll know what you're doing. The rest of us are fúcked.

Well through my job I know how to call in an artillary strike on the fvckers!..

arybvtcw0eolkf

Emily Yellow Napkin wrote: »

that is retarded...

Padraig Nally is a hero.

Indie18

Emily Yellow Napkin wrote: »

That would be called self defence... and you probably wouldn't do any time for it.

Pre-emptive murder is something else and you deserve to be called scum and put in prison for 20+ years.

By all means, protect yourself and your family, but do not pass judgement yourself on someone and kill them, that is retarded...

i never said i would just kill someone just because i think they might be a scum bag. i just meant that if it was a situation were I had no choice well then so be it. But then i suppose thats easy to say when you have never been in that situation.

Dragan

I have always said that if someone puts me in a situation where it is my safety or their's, my life or their's ( or those of my loved ones ) then i will do whatever it takes to see that person buried.

Orange69

This will never happen but i would love to see it. Taking the right to defend oneself and placing it in the hands of an incompetent police force is a very flawed and unsafe policy imo.

Moriarty

Mairt wrote: »

Padraig Nally is a hero.

I'll bite. If you think shooting someone in the back as they're wounded and crawling away is heroic, you need to look up the meaning of the word. I thought someone in the army might know better.

Dyr

Mairt wrote: »

When Irish citizens will routinely arm themselves?.

In light of the shooting of that young lad in Finglas, Campbell the young plumber. The murder of the Rugby player in Limerick and last nights murder of that innocent man in Eastwall, Dublin and the general escalation in lawless behaviour on our streets do you think its better to be tried by twelve than carried by six?.

I think if I'm harrassed in my home now I'll be going out with my shotgun and dogs in tow, just in case.

leave the dogs, you cant give someone both barrels when your dog is hanging off their arm :pac:

arybvtcw0eolkf

Moriarty wrote: »

I'll bite. If you think shooting someone in the back as they're wounded and crawling away is heroic, you need to look up the meaning of the word. I thought someone in the army might know better.

He wasn't crawling away, he was tactically reassessing the situation.

In the army we call this a leppard crawl.

Nehaxak

What we need is a vigilante group to dish out beatings and executions. Or force them all to eat pork. Whichever is easiest.

Pride Fighter

Some sort of Travis Bickle type drawer device attached to my arm with a desert eagle is what I'll use.



Are you talking to me?

neacy69

Nehaxak wrote: »

What we need is a vigilante group to dish out beatings and executions. Or force them all to eat pork. Whichever is easiest.

Didn't we have one of those.....until they robbed a bank and then everyone decided they weren't cool anymore?

Moriarty

Mairt wrote: »

He wasn't crawling away, he was tactically reassessing the situation.

In the army we call this a leppard crawl.

In the real world we call that bullshit. But hey, maybe the next time some irish soldier is wounded, unable to fight and trying to get away, you'll be equally idiotic in the cheerleading of someone who wasn't in control of their actions when they execute someone who was no longer a threat to them.

That's not heroism, that's weak.

Nehaxak

neacy69 wrote: »

Didn't we have one of those.....until they robbed a bank and then everyone decided they weren't cool anymore?

He was driving a taxi at the time...

Pride Fighter

Moriarty wrote: »

In the real world we call that bullshit. But hey, maybe the next time some irish soldier is wounded, unable to fight and trying to get away, you'll be equally idiotic in the cheerleading of someone who wasn't in control of their actions when they execute them.

In the real world it is called justice. Those lowlifes were making that mans life a living hell. They stole from him, threatened him and got what they deserved. As a result of his actions Padraig Nally saved the taxpayer tens of thousands of euro on garda resources and legal bills (the guy he killed had over 40 convictions and was a career criminal). Get off your moral high horse and see sense.

javaboy

Moriarty wrote: »

But hey, maybe the next time some irish soldier is wounded, unable to fight and trying to get away, you'll be equally idiotic in the cheerleading of someone who wasn't in control of their actions when they execute someone who was no longer a threat to them.

That comparison is not valid. However if the Irish soldier in question was harassing an innocent person in his home for the umpteenth time, then I would find it hard to muster up too much sympathy for him.

SEPT 23 1989

well said

biko

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/2471/youcanhavemygunwhenyoth9.gif

Killme00

javaboy wrote: »

That comparison is not valid. However if the Irish soldier in question was harassing an innocent person in his home for the umpteenth time, then I would find it hard to muster up too much sympathy for him.

Thats a good point BUt please change your sig because its giving me the urge to shoot you.

Moriarty

Pride Fighter wrote: »

In the real world it is called justice. Those lowlifes were making that mans life a living hell. They stole from him, threatened him and got what they deserved. As a result of his actions Padraig Nally saved the taxpayer tens of thousands of euro on garda resources and legal bills (the guy he killed had over 40 convictions and was a career criminal). Get off your moral high horse and see sense.

Yeah, we just have to look at the shining example of somalia to see that we've had it wrong the entire time. The system isn't perfect, so clearly the entire system will never work. It's lucky we have the hard-of-thinking to lay the correct path for us.

arybvtcw0eolkf

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

well said

Thanks.

cornbb

This is the sort of AH thread that makes me a sad, sad panda. Would you lot really want to go down the US-inspired route of self-administered shotgun "justice"? Bullsh*t you would. You just want an excuse to arm yourselves to the teeth and cozily imagine what it would be like to shoot the members of society you don't like, without having to answer to the legal system, something that we have strived after for thousands of years but would now happily throw away

You'd swear we were living in a warzone by the way you are all talking. We live in an extremely safe western society, relatively speaking, we enjoy very low murder and violent crime rates (with deference to the innocent victims of knife/gun crime, who I have every sympathy for). The vigilante-justice society you propose would lead us down a very sh1tty path, it is precisely the sort of attitude that makes things worse. Just look at certain parts of the US, where households arm themselves to the teeth and somehow they think this makes their society safer

The Pádraig Nally case exemplifies this attitude perfectly. The man shot a wounded and fleeing Traveller in the back and somehow a jury interpreted this to be not murder or manslaughter. Whether or not Ward was a criminal is beside the point: it defies all logic, sanity, justice, that verdict was purely motivated by an attitude that believed an angry, emotional farmer with a gun was in a better position to determine and administer justice than the rule of law.

Moriarty

javaboy wrote: »

That comparison is not valid. However if the Irish soldier in question was harassing an innocent person in his home for the umpteenth time, then I would find it hard to muster up too much sympathy for him.

It's completely valid. As soon as they're no longer a threat to you, it doesn't matter what they were doing in the first place. To say that it does matter, it follows that shooting them is no longer in any sense an act of self-defence, but an act of punishment/retribution. Now, go look up the meaning of the words murder and manslaughter and come back to the table.

javaboy

Killme00 wrote: »

Thats a good point BUt please change your sig because its giving me the urge to shoot you.

No. It's for charity.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Moriarty wrote: »

Yeah, we just have to look at the shining example of somalia to see that we've had it wrong the entire time. The system isn't perfect, so clearly the entire system will never work. It's lucky we have the hard-of-thinking to lay the correct path for us.

Somalia, oh our commitment to UNISOM was also covered in glory.

We served in Bidoa and it was considered a safe haven for many, we also ran the local hospital, hospice and orphange there.

The transport route from Bidoa to Mogadishu was considered one of the safest supply routes in the entire country, and we achieved this from the backs of armoured ACMAT trucks and with boots on the ground, unlike the yanks and their blackhawk heli's.

/Dons my dictators hat because I've to head out to work now..

Dragan

cornbb wrote: »

The man shot a wounded and fleeing Traveller in the back and somehow a jury interpreted this to be not murder or manslaughter. Whether or not Ward was a criminal is beside the point: it defies all logic, sanity, justice, that verdict was purely motivated by an attitude that believed an angry, emotional farmer with a gun was in a better position to determine and administer justice than the rule of law.

Sometimes Karma has sharp edges.

Poccington

Mairt wrote: »

Well through my job I know how to call in an artillary strike on the fvckers!..

Now, all you have to do is get yourself an FOO or at least an MFC to operate in Dublin

Indie18

Moriarty wrote: »

It's completely valid. As soon as they're no longer a threat to you, it doesn't matter what they were doing in the first place. To say that it does matter, it follows that shooting them is no longer in any sense an act of self-defence, but an act of punishment/retribution. Now, go look up the meaning of the words murder and manslaughter and come back to the table.

I would agree with this. say for example you have a gun and some body comes at you with intent to harm you and you shoot but you don't kill them. They are on the floor not going to die but also no longer going to harm you. I would no longer consider it to be self defence to then walk up to the person and finish them off.

Eoin

Mairt wrote:

In light of the shooting of that young lad in Finglas, Campbell the young plumber. The murder of the Rugby player in Limerick and last nights murder of that innocent man in Eastwall, Dublin

Of those three cases, I would imagine that only possibly last night's incident would have gone a different way if any of them had been armed.

I'm afraid I don't have any statistics, but I was under the impression that there are a vast amount of cases in the States where people are injured or killed because a home- owner tries to use a gun in self defence.

cornbb wrote:

The man shot a wounded and fleeing Traveller in the back and somehow a jury interpreted this to be not murder or manslaughter

I thought he was convicted by the jury, but he appealed the conviction and wasn't re-tried?

helimachoptor

Personally the Nally situation was all fair to me. He defended himself and his property. So what if the guy was running away, he probably would have been back the next night with his own shotgun ffs!

While I would prefer we not go down the American road of everyone having M16s in there pants, I think we need something stronger. Nally should never have been sent to jail.

If someone broke into my house I'd restrain them using whatever means necessary, if that means picking the xbox up and hitting them on the head, judo chopping them to the throat, smacking them with a hammer.

If your house in invaded you have to right to defend it, and tbh if I seen Mairts dogs I wouldnt be going anywhere near his f**king house!

Unfortunately in this PC day and age if you spear tackle a thief to the ground whether it be in the road or in your home and they break a nail.. they'll probably sue you for assault.

Common sense does not prevail in the justice system.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Poccington wrote: »

Now, all you have to do is get yourself an FOO or at least an MFC to operate in Dublin

Thats kinda funny..

I was fighting Judo in Natanya (Israel) against the IDF Judo team and got talking to a young lad from the IDF who could give me the co-ordinates to my camp in Lebanon from memory!.

Kinda funny fighting the guy who could drop a 155mm round on my ass!.

Frisbee

Mairt wrote: »

Kinda funny fighting the guy who could drop a 155mm round on my ass!.

I hope you let him win... :pac:

Zzippy

cornbb wrote: »

This is the sort of AH thread that makes me a sad, sad panda.

Holy ****, a panda that can type! :eek:

arybvtcw0eolkf

Frisbee wrote: »

I hope you let him win... :pac:

Actually, I wasn't actually fighting that particular guy. He wasn't in my weight class - oh, our team lost anyway

Moriarty

helimachoptor wrote: »

Personally the Nally situation was all fair to me. He defended himself and his property. So what if the guy was running away, he probably would have been back the next night with his own shotgun ffs!

While I would prefer we not go down the American road of everyone having M16s in there pants, I think we need something stronger. Nally should never have been sent to jail.

If someone broke into my house I'd restrain them using whatever means necessary, if that means picking the xbox up and hitting them on the head, judo chopping them to the throat, smacking them with a hammer.

If your house in invaded you have to right to defend it, and tbh if I seen Mairts dogs I wouldnt be going anywhere near his f**king house!

Unfortunately in this PC day and age if you spear tackle a thief to the ground whether it be in the road or in your home and they break a nail.. they'll probably sue you for assault.

Common sense does not prevail in the justice system.

You're missing the chasm between self-defence - which is totally legal here, and which no one has been ever tried for as a result of actions taken - and it stepping over the large line into murder.

The law here has absolutely no problem with you shooting an intruder to your house in the face with a shotgun and him being dead before he hits the floor. Neither do I. The law has a major problem with you injuring someone to such an extent that he'd never be a threat to you or anyone else, but then continuing to shoot/stab/bludgeon them to death.

Take a breath and think about that.

cornbb

Dragan wrote: »

Sometimes Karma has sharp edges.

I hope you're not implying that "karma deliverance" or "he had it coming" should be used as justification for shooting a man? We might as well just disband the gardaí and the courts system in that case.

eoin_s wrote: »

I thought he was convicted by the jury, but he appealed the conviction and wasn't re-tried?

As far as I know he was acquitted by a jury during the appeal.

helimachoptor wrote: »

Unfortunately in this PC day and age if you spear tackle a thief to the ground whether it be in the road or in your home and they break a nail.. they'll probably sue you for assault.

Do you even know what political correctness means?

Common sense does not prevail in the justice system.

Common sense is one of the many things that go the window out in the case of the gun-wielding man on the street too, I'd imagine. I don't know about you but if I'm ever tried for a crime I'd rather be tried by the justice system than by a strung-out farmer with a shotgun.

4zn76tysfajdxp

Mairt wrote: »

/Dons my dictators hat because I've to head out to work now..

So...you'll be out of the house for the next few hours...?

*Prepares eggs*

Dragan

cornbb wrote: »

I hope you're not implying that "karma deliverance" or "he had it coming" should be used as justification for shooting a man? We might as well just disband the gardaí and the courts system in that case.

I am not pretending to understand the nature of Karma or the balance of Good and Evil to any great degree.

I also would not have done what Mr Nally did.

I do however know that the person who died was a career criminal, so won't be shedding a tear over it no matter how it happened. As such, perhaps in the grand scheme of things something was always going to happen to him.

Was it right how he died? Nope.

Was it right THAT he died? Nope.

Should he have been where he was, under the circumstances, or the countless previous times he got up to the same ****? Nope.

It's all swings and roundabouts.

qwertplaywert

Nally shot a man who was running away, therefore a man who posed no immediate treat to Nally. That isn't heroic, that isn't self-defence, thats just murder, plain and simple.

aligator_am

Bring back the lash!!! although I'm sure the do gooder brigade would be out in force lol

Round up the likes of the scum that killed that guy last night, 100 lashes of a ash plant in Dublin Castle, and televise it! then let's see how quick others would be to repeat it.

I know that won't bring the victim back to his family, but would hopefully act as a deterrent to others.

cornbb

Dragan wrote: »

I am not pretending to understand the nature of Karma or the balance of Good and Evil to any great degree.

I also would not have done what Mr Nally did.

I do however know that the person who died was a career criminal, so won't be shedding a tear over it no matter how it happened. As such, perhaps in the grand scheme of things something was always going to happen to him.

Was it right how he died? Nope.

Was it right THAT he died? Nope.

Should he have been where he was, under the circumstances, or the countless previous times he got up to the same ****? Nope.

I'd agree with you there. I'm not getting particularly worked up about Ward, my gripe is that he should have been convicted and punished by the legal system for what he did, and that he did not deserve to die for whatever he did. My biggest gripe of all, however, is that a large number of people disagree with me on those points and would choose to lead our country down a path whereby what happened in the Nally case could become acceptable.

It's all swings and roundabouts.

A lot of scum are never brought to justice and literally get away with murder in this country. In Ward's case, he didn't get brought to justice for what he did either, he was shot in the back for doing what he did. The two don't cancel each other out however, they are both perversions of justice, there is no cosmic redistribution of karma going on here.

wolfpawnat

In my boyfriends home town there are a group of foreigners that are going up to the older members of the towns houses and knocking on the doors and force their way in once the door is opened.

I am having my baby in January and I will be staying in the house with my boyfriends mother(who is in her 60's) and the fool that dares to put a foot in the front door(or window or back door for that matter) will get the nearest sharp item into the nearest part of their torso! and thats if I dont have time to get the metal baseball bat from my room.

If a person enters the house unwelcome and poses a serious threat to any of us, I will make them wish they never thought to get out of bed that day. I am not a violent person, and as a student nurse I am training in a career for the care of others, but NO ONE is going to try and get in and harm us. I will defend my baby with my life and will gladly go into a courtroom and claim self defence if needs be. Then again I would never go looking for trouble.

Dragan

cornbb wrote: »

My biggest gripe of all, however, is that a large number of people disagree with me on those points and would choose to lead our country down a path whereby what happened in the Nally case could become acceptable.

It's a simple outpouring of anger. The whole reason people don't shoot each other over nothing is because they have avenues and places to let the frustration out.

Whatever the stats show, the news would have us believe that our country is falling apart, that criminals can kill and steal and rape with very little comeback, that punishments handed out by Judges are too little and that there is not enough punishment in place to make there criminals change their lives.

As such, they apply the reasoning that if this stuff happens to them they will be let down by the cops, the courts, the Judges. So they think about a bit of street justice.

Thats all it is.