BSc multimedia and computer game design

aido179

i figure the guys (and gals possibly [hopefully]) in this course will be fair auld interent junkies... so i hope this topic gets some notice by them.

to anybody doing this course,
I'm putting this down no.1 CAO above architechture and engineering so im quite certain i'll get in (~330 pts, and im well capable of 450+).
is it worth it? is it a good course? reading the site and all the lit about it...i want to know more.
thanks guys

rmacm

aido179 wrote: »

to anybody doing this course,
I'm putting this down no.1 CAO above architechture and engineering so im quite certain i'll get in (~330 pts, and im well capable of 450+).
is it worth it? is it a good course? reading the site and all the lit about it...i want to know more.
thanks guys

Parts of it are the same as the Computer Systems course that myself and a few of the others on here did so commenting on those parts of it then yes they are good and it'll give you a decent enough grounding in programming and computer science in general.

Anything in specific you want to know about the modules or anything like that? I'm not sure what the games industry is like here in Ireland but bear in mind that you do need to be a reasonably good programmer if you want to get into the programming end of games development.

DJCR

aido179 wrote: »

I'm putting this down no.1 CAO above architechture and engineering

Is there any point in putting down the other 2 .... not to be a bit of a prick but there is no point in putting down the other 2 if this is your first choice as you only get your highest pick....... seen as the other two are guarenteed to be higher in the points bracket doing it this way is kind of futile.

At the end of the day ...... put what ever you like / think you'll find more interesting first as doing a course you don't like for 4 years is nothing short of horrible and a complete catastrophy!!

Just be true to yourself!!!

Literally do what ever you like best!!!

:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

aido179

thanks for the replies.

i already have a fairly good grounding in programming so i figure that wont be an issue.
i'd love to know what resources are available (as in programming wise), and what kind of stuff you would learn...that would differ from other comp science courses.
apparently carlow IT is the only course "sponsored buy microsoft" but i'd prefer to go to ul for the sailing club, and general ameneties.

as far as cao goes, im going for my favourite, above all else. i dont wanna be stuck in a mech eng course that i wont enjoy. but on the other hand, i wouldn't feel out of place there either.
you never know, i might just pull off 450 and not get into it...
and you never know, there might be a surge of interest in the course this year...

McGetty

I did Comp Sys, and to be honest I'm not sure about the games course. For starters, having gone through UL I can't think of any lecturers I had that I would expect to know anything about the games industry. I think the course was just thrown together to hop on the bandwagon and make up for the plunging Comp Sys numbers.

Plus, I've often read that many developers would rather get a graduate from a generic computer science degree (with, perhaps, a masters aimed at games, which you can now get in Trinity and several British colleges), and that it can serve you better in the long run as computer games skills are very specific to that industry and if you were to ever decide games development wasn't for you, you wouldn't be very well equipped for any other IT profession.

Phototoxin

Is there any point in putting down the other 2 .... not to be a bit of a prick but there is no point in putting down the other 2 if this is your first choice as you only get your highest pick....... seen as the other two are guarenteed to be higher in the points bracket doing it this way is kind of futile.

At the end of the day ...... put what ever you like / think you'll find more interesting first as doing a course you don't like for 4 years is nothing short of horrible and a complete catastrophy!!

Just be true to yourself!!!

Literally do what ever you like best!!!

not true... if lots of people go for the course the points go up, similarly with other course if theres less people the points go down.

SmurfX

I'm doing Comp Sys at the moment and know loads of people doing the games course. They're basically about 80% the same course with a couple of different modules the games side. Like games do some interesting things like Graphics, AI and this semester have this awesome module where they mod the Oblivion engine. At the same time we're generally doing stuff like Compiler theory, telecommunications, Project Management, HCI, Ethics or XML. The abstract theory and psychology stuff we do they dont, in otherwords the stuff that you dont have to know but its nice to. All the vital stuff is covered in both, C++, Java, SQL, UML, Networks, Comp Org etc.

Games looks like slightly more fun to study but they get treated worse outside of their course. For their work placement they all either couldnt find an employer or were tossed into a comp sys job and its a lot harder to find work in games outside of college and to some employers having a Computer Games degree makes you less qualified than a Comp Sys one.

But the great part is that you do the exact same stuff in the first year of Comp Sys and Games so the course leaders will let you switch between either one before 2nd year if you're not sure which to go with right now. Overall they're good courses, So far I've found it fairly frontloaded in that it gets tough really quickly in first and second year but never really gets any more difficult after that.

aido179

ok so not very good reviews...thats actually quite awful.
i was fairly sure that this course would finish with more opportunities than comp sys, leaving regular jobs still a possibility, having covered most of the same areas.
i'll definately be re-organising my priorities.
thanks guys

SmurfX

It probably should be but as mentioned already the lecturers in the CSIS department are somewhat elitist and tend to look down on Video Games as a legit career choice, which doesn't help. It's not a bad choice whatsoever just be aware that it boils down to Comp Sys disguised with a gaming wrapper.

thewheel2.0

I think il put computer sys on the CAO and decide between the two when i get to college.

Feyy

aido179 wrote: »

ok so not very good reviews...thats actually quite awful.
i was fairly sure that this course would finish with more opportunities than comp sys, leaving regular jobs still a possibility, having covered most of the same areas.
i'll definately be re-organising my priorities.
thanks guys

Im currently in 1st Year of Comp Games, heading into 2nd soon

Obviously i cant say all too much about the whole course yet, but i enjoyed 1st year so far, if you already know computers quite well it can be a bit boring. Programming in 1st year is purely based off Java which is fine so if you have prior Programming knowledge its going to be very easy.

2nd year would perhaps be more interesting and challenging.

Hope this helps, if you have any other questions, just ask

Nockz

I am a first year in the Ga course as well. I would have to disagree with a lot of the Comp Systems lads have been saying. Like we were told by lecturers in the first few weeks that the computer games industry is very serious in that it is a booming industry overtaking the film industry etc. They are in no way elitist in looking down on anyone in the course. From what the 2nd and 3rd years that I know have said, most (not all) lecturers actually know quite a lot about computer games.

I am loving it, but I should be studying instead of posting here :rolleyes:

Xabs

I wouldn't recommend it at all.
Not very well organised. No communication between lecturers.
(To the extent some topics have been thought to us up to 4 times
by different people)

At the end of 2nd year now and 2 modules have been specific to Game Development (Computer Graphics and some other one...)
Most of what I know about game development has been self-taught.
I've heard that in 3rd year we get down to the good stuff,
but in my opinion that's just too long into a course to
start learning the skills that will actually be relevant in the workplace.

I'm of the opinion it's just a slightly modified form of Comp Sys
designed to cash in on the popularity of Games courses.
The only reason I'm still here is because I can't afford to go elsewhere.

Nockz

Xabs, you forget that when you learn the same material 4 times it's because it isn't always the same class right? I don't know how many times i have learned binary but I do know that sometimes it was with a completely different module (eg. Health Informatics students do imperative programming too and the maths classes are mixed) so for any of the lectures to leave it out just because one batch of students has learned it is a bit stupid if you ask me. You clearly were not thinking when you said there was no communication especially when the lectures always say "some of you may have seen this before in other lectures".

I fail to see your logic about games related modules. Surely one must learn how to use a computer before one can ever hope to make a game. Also is there something wrong in getting a broad knowledge of computers so that, should the games industry not yield any jobs, that god forbid we may have skills that we could apply in other computer workplaces.

Sorry Xabs, you just sound ungrateful to say the least.

DJCR

Nockz wrote: »

I fail to see your logic... [blah blah blah]... should the games industry not yield any jobs

Few facts..

1) of course you have to know how to work a computer to do the course - the problem occurs when your learning how to use the same computer twice (waste of time).

2) The Games industry has a current worldwide growth rate of about 150% pa... so jobs in the future shouldn't be a problem!!! + If you can make a game I'm sure you can do graphics/website design etc etc So you won't be stuck for a job.

Graph (I'm a business student and we like pictures) :D:D:D:



From the above graph we can see that I'm perfectly correct in what I said!

01000001 01101101 00100000 01001001 00100000 01100001 01101101 01100001 01111010 01101001 01101110 01100111 00100000 01101111 01110010 00100000 01110111 01101000 01100001 01110100 00100001 00100001 00100001

*Leaves this in though he feels that he may have overstepped the mark!!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

emageht

Games is a good course, the only problem is that it's full of console gamers (apparently the average console fanboy cannot understand that you have to start with generic/basic subjects).

Xabs wrote: »

At the end of 2nd year now and 2 modules have been specific to Game Development (Computer Graphics and some other one...

CS4043 Games Modelling Design , CS4815 Computer Graphics, CS4006 Intelligent System
Time to practice your counting skills?
Or, you could just switch course and enjoy a full semester of PHP (no doubt the best language out there).

Zeouterlimits

Computer System do Intelligent Systems as well, just at a different time, so he wasn't wrong.

The people involved in this discussion are too in danger of getting their opinions and choices hurt so the bias shown in unfortunately, but understandably inevitable (which is why I've stayed my hand from posting).

This is exactly helping the OP, who I wish the best of the luck with whatever he chooses.
With enough time, effort and devotion you'll get whatever job you want.

emageht

Zeouterlimits wrote: »

Computer System do Intelligent Systems as well, just at a different time, so he wasn't wrong.

So what?
The fact that they do it in CS doesn't make it any less specific.

bazkennedy

i'm currently repeating 2nd year computer systems (I live with 3 third year comp sys students and i have friends in 2/3 yr games)

Both courses are tough

The games course is only 4 years old and is constantly evolving based on student/lecturer feedback. There are some lecturers who understand gaming but not all.

The games industry is growing but don't count on a games related job for co-op anytime soon.

Xabs

Nockz wrote: »

Xabs, you forget that when you learn the same material 4 times it's because it isn't always the same class right? I don't know how many times i have learned binary but I do know that sometimes it was with a completely different module (eg. Health Informatics students do imperative programming too and the maths classes are mixed) so for any of the lectures to leave it out just because one batch of students has learned it is a bit stupid if you ask me.

Yes often it has been with the same group (ie. Games and Comp Sys)
I can't remember how many times I've learned what a cyclic graph is,
or how to multiply matrices.

Regardless, lets say a handful of students haven't learned something
because of their specific course structure or what have you.
Is dedicating a couple of weeks of lecture time to those students
sensible, while, by the lecturers own admission, 90% of the class have covered the material before?

Also is there something wrong in getting a broad knowledge of computers so that, should the games industry not yield any jobs, that god forbid we may have skills that we could apply in other computer workplaces.

No, nothing wrong with that at all.
But neglecting on introducing us to relevant industry topics, practices etc.
as some kind of failsafe against those of us too useless to find a job in the games industry is.

Here's two articles relevant to the debate, you might be interested in
(a little old but still very relevant)

The Problems with Game Development Education in Ireland
Games Education in Ireland II: The Academic Perspective



I wouldn't feel comfortable going out on co-op to a games company
with my current knowledge base. There is two more games specfic modules coming up in semester 1 of third year, but I'm not confident of our skills increasing all that much in those few weeks.
Especially when we'll more than likely be playing oblivion and learning to model in Blender most of the time (open-source blah blah. I say cheap...)

Sorry Xabs, you just sound ungrateful to say the least.

I see. Whose feet should I be rushing to kiss?
(Do please give me an answer on this one)


And please excuse me if any of my post seems incomprehensible,
it is morning time after all

emageht wrote: »

Games is a good course, the only problem is that it's full of console gamers (apparently the average console fanboy cannot understand that you have to start with generic/basic subjects).

You're funny....and awesome :cool:

emageht

Xabs wrote: »

I wouldn't feel comfortable going out on co-op to a games company
with my current knowledge base.

Why not? That's what co-op is for...
Much better to work in a software house than in a stupid bank.

Xabs wrote: »

Especially when we'll more than likely be playing oblivion and learning to model in Blender most of the time (open-source blah blah. I say cheap...)

Blender is not that bad (yeah, I know Maya & 3DSMax are better).
I hope you are not serious about playing Oblivion, it would be worse than HCI and Software Testing together.

Xabs

emageht wrote: »

Why not? That's what co-op is for...
Much better to work in a software house than in a stupid bank.

Blender is not that bad (yeah, I know Maya & 3DSMax are better).

Much better to actually have some knowledge you can put into practice.

And I know Blender isn't that bad,
but Maya and 3ds are much better,
and more importantly...industry standard

emageht

Xabs wrote: »

Much better to actually have some knowledge you can put into practice.

Depends on what knowledge they require you to have. Are we speaking about game designers? Game programmers? Game testers?
It's only two years... hardly enough to learn both basic and specialized stuff.

Now, don't get me wrong; I'm not saying the course is perfect. I think modules like Digital Video Fundamentals and HCI were just a waste of time (time that could have been used to teach more relevant subjects - maths? physics?).
... but look on the bright side: now we know everything about two dying television standards. Isn't that great?

Xabs wrote: »

And I know Blender isn't that bad,
but Maya and 3ds are much better,
and more importantly...industry standard

Yep, but universities like cheap-ass software (Dev-C++ anyone?).

P.S. The smileys are awful.

BostonB

emageht wrote: »

Why not? That's what co-op is for...
Much better to work in a software house than in a stupid bank....

To clarify. A software house is not a games company. Not the same thing at all. Game companies in general work far longer hours, vastly more overtime (weekends, nights) for months at a time, often poorly paid (for the hours worked). Than either software houses and banks.

emageht

BostonB wrote: »

To clarify. A software house is not a games company. Not the same thing at all. Game companies in general work far longer hours, vastly more overtime (weekends, nights) for months at a time, often poorly paid (for the hours worked). Than either software houses and banks.

No.
"A software house is a company whose primary products are composed of software, i.e., computer programs."
It's a generic term that can also apply to game developers.

P.S. Crunch time would be a more appropriate term than overtime.

BostonB

My point was the generic title is not helpful in that games companies generally (sweeping generaliation accepted) have far worse working hours/practises than other places like software companies, as most would understand that term. Or developers in a bank for that matter.

I wouldn't consider crunch time as something that lasts for months and months. IMO anything beyond normal working hours is overtime. So I would say thats more appropriate. The sheer amount of overtime/crunchtime (whatever) is unlike other companies, software or banks etc. Thats the point I was making.

emageht

BostonB wrote: »

I wouldn't consider crunch time as something that lasts for months and months.

Heh, I know a fella (he used to work at Lionhead) who wouldn't agree with you.

BostonB wrote: »

The sheer amount of overtime/crunchtime (whatever) is unlike other companies, software or banks etc. Thats the point I was making.

That's true.
You're probably right, I should have been more specific when talking about software houses.

BostonB

From the point of view of people with no experience, its good to be aware of it, because its a big deal. Ok when you are single and have nothing else to do. But if you do other stuff outside of work, even holidays with your mates can be a problem. Its not every games company but its the norm in a lot of them.

I would also say college from an employers point of view is just to prove your not stupid. Any projects, skills you do yourself, no matter if they are part of college or something you do in your own time, would be far more important to an employer. Don't wait for the college. Do a competition or release a project yourself.

Nockz

So what you are saying Xabs is that it is actually a rather good course to go into because of the clear level of jobs. You learn how to use the same computer twice because the module material overlaps for a few weeks at most.

You start using Zork in 2nd year making somewhat small games so once again I really don't see your logic. Especially since your first couldn't have more moaning about the course in it and then you turn around and say that it's a great course to get into.

Overstepped? More like did a u-turn on your point.

Zeouterlimits

emageht wrote: »

So what?
The fact that they do it in CS doesn't make it any less specific.

You claimed he couldn't count when he said there were only 2 specific to Games as of 2nd year. Yet he was right.
That, simply, was my point.

emageht

Nockz wrote: »

You start using Zork in 2nd year.

More like you start copypasta-ing zork from the source code given to you...

Zeouterlimits wrote: »

You claimed he couldn't count when he said there were only 2 specific to Games as of 2nd year. Yet he was right.
That, simply, was my point.

I think he meant specific to games development, not specific to our course.

Zeouterlimits

emageht wrote: »

More like you start copypasta-ing zork from the source code given to you...

I think he meant specific to games development, not specific to our course.

Ah.
I'd argue that it's not, but that's irrelevant to this discussion.
Apologies if I mis-understood.

Xabs

Nockz wrote: »

So what you are saying Xabs is that it is actually a rather good course to go into because of the clear level of jobs. You learn how to use the same computer twice because the module material overlaps for a few weeks at most.

You start using Zork in 2nd year making somewhat small games so once again I really don't see your logic. Especially since your first couldn't have more moaning about the course in it and then you turn around and say that it's a great course to get into.

Overstepped? More like did a u-turn on your point.

Are you on drugs? :eek:
What U-turn?
I haven't said it's a great course,
I've been arguing the opposite have I not?

Yes, the subject area (game development) is great to get into
(I wouldn't be doing the course otherwise)
but the course itself, in my opinion, is ineffective in providing a good education in said subject area.

As for Zork, it's more of an exercise in learning C++ (for those who need it)
than anything very relevant to game development.

emageht

Xabs wrote: »

but the course itself, in my opinion, is ineffective in providing a good education in said subject area.

Au contraire, the course would have been ineffective if we started doing games related stuff beginning from day one. We can leave that to fancy Microsoft supported courses that won't get you anywhere (I.T. Carlow anyone?).
Or maybe it's just a bit early to judge a course when you're barely half done.

Xabs wrote: »

As for Zork, it's more of an exercise in learning C++ (for those who need it)
than anything very relevant to game development.

TBH c++ is (unfortunately) quite relevant in game development.

Xabs

emageht wrote: »

Or maybe it's just a bit early to judge a course when you're barely half done.

Only time will tell. But I'm not willing to wait around and hear what time has to say.

emageht wrote: »

TBH c++ is (unfortunately) quite relevant in game development.

It seems I haven't been wording things with the required degree of unambiguity today.
What I meant was, Zork is more of an exercise in learning c++ rather
than and exercise in developing a game as Nockz suggested it was.
I didn't mean to imply c++ is not relevant.

emageht

Xabs wrote: »

Only time will tell. But I'm not willing to wait around and hear what time has to say.

You leaving?

Xabs wrote: »

It seems I haven't been wording things with the required degree of unambiguity today.

Your wording was fine, it was just a semi-random comment.

Connavar

I'm doing my co op in this at the moment(ended up in an investments company)

It's an alright course but to be honest I think I would point you in the direction of computer systems instead.

It just seems to have a better structure to it(based on my experience of a friend doing it)

Also a bit of advice that they failed to tell us and we are only finding out now. Try to build up a programming portfolio as you go through because any of the big companies will be looking for one with your CV. Also a lot of colleges are running this course, do a good amount off research on which one to go to as they are all quite differently run

Robby91

Just wondering if people would still recommend (or otherwise) this course, both in terms of the quality of the course, and the work experience/jobs that anyone has gotten from this course.

I applied for the course earlier this year and had my place deferred, but I may not be able to take it up this year so I'd like to get whatever research into this course (and alternatives) done early so I know what I'm getting myself into.

From what I've read in this thread so far, it seems like the prospects aren't all that great (compared to any other course) - I want to get into games programming/design, but I don't want to spend 4 years in a course that (from what people seem to be saying) is inadequate, if doing Computer Science in UCC/Software Development in LIT could be a better alternative then get into games design/programming through another route.

Would anyone be able to tell me what is involving in this course (if anything has changed from what previous posters have said), and what programming languages are involved or is it just C++?