Why does almost everyone here hate the Indo?

cson

First and foremost; I'm not neutral here, I'd buy the Irish Independent before I'd buy the Irish Times. Mainly due to the handiness of the Metro version. The thing I'm aghast about is, reading through threads here, how much people dislike it. I bought both the II and IT on Saturday and to be honest I'd feel there was more and better content in the II. Very little actual opinion or articles and the much of the Sports is robbed off the Guardian (Which I'd rate as an excellent rag). Bar the piece on the effects of the downturn on Longford, there was nothing else in the review section that really was of substance.

I'd find the likes of Vincent Hogan, though ott a lot of the time, very engaging to read. Having said that, Tom Humphries I do like a lot. I'd have to echo a thought put forward in another thread that usually you'll end up buying the rag your parents read. Which was the II in my case!

seanybiker

not enough pictures.

irish_bob

hating the indo or more specifically the sindo is an important part of being a self respecting lefty in this country, its up there with hating the pd,s , michael o leary and of course the profit motive

Sad Professor

I buy the Irish Times and think it's far superior to the Indo. At least if it's actual news you're looking for.

I don't hate the Indo (the metro format is certainly more convenient than the IT) but whatever respectability it had as a centre-right broadsheet went out the window when O'Regan took over. It's just a tabloid rag now. Which is fine but it makes it unworthy of comparison with the IT — which at least makes some effort to be objective.

The ITs opinion pieces and supplements are pretty terrible though. While Waters, O'Toole, Browne et al, occasionally have something interesting to say, for most part it's just dribble that isn't worth reading. Myers is a fool but at least he was funny to read and he stood out at the IT as the sole opponent of political correctness.

chahop

Brendan O F**king Connor.

6th

I hate how some individuals who work for them do business. Thats not to say you dont get lying, backstabbing, sniveling sh1ts working for other companies.

cson

@ chahop: Note I'm referencing the Irish Independent here and not the Sunday Independent. Read the first post more carefully

I'm not a huge fan of Kevin Myers but his column is almost always an engaging read in the II.

copacetic

it's their standards of reporting, sensationalism, political bias, lack of actual fact checking before printing etc. the 'lifestyle' pieces pretending to be news. Basically if I read something in the Indo I don't actually believe it is true anymore.

asdasd

I buy the Irish Times and think it's far superior to the Indo. At least if it's actual news you're looking for.

Why not go to source, the Guardian, Reuters or the AP. The Irish times does little or no reporting.

copacetic

asdasd wrote: »

Why not go to source, the Guardian, Reuters or the AP. The Irish times does little or no reporting.

yeah right, they all have loads of stuff from Ireland:rolleyes:

chahop

I do like the big sudku in the Sat indo.
And i still hate Mr O'Connor, he's in the Saturday mags that come with the indo AFIK.

copacetic

chahop wrote: »

I do like the big sudku in the Sat indo.
And i still hate Mr O'Connor, he's in the Saturday mags that come with the indo AFIK.

the main indo has that other unfunny fat 'controversial' guy anyway

cson

Myers? His column is a decent enough read, at least it'll spark some debate as opposed to the conservatism that imo prevails in the IT. (And I'm aware where he used to work too!)

Ok so, for the pro IT crowd; Why do you buy it?

cast_iron

copacetic wrote: »

Basically if I read something in the Indo I don't actually believe it is true anymore.

But the IT isn't exactly trustworthy either. Their editor was facing jail over an "unnamed source", and as demonstrated over in the shooting forum, simple basic facts (easily obtained on the front page of the DoJELR website) was reported entirely inaccurately also.
When basic facts of a straightforward story are not reported correctly (and a false impression given), just what exactly can you trust in the entire paper?

Oh, and the Indo is full of inaccurate tripe also. But its readers either don't give a damn or know no better.

cson

cast_iron wrote: »

But the IT isn't exactly trustworthy either. Their editor was facing jail over an "unnamed source", and as demonstrated over in the shooting forum, simple basic facts (easily obtained on the front page of the DoJELR website) was reported entirely inaccurately also.
When basic facts of a straightforward story are not reported correctly (and a false impression given), just what exactly can you trust in the entire paper?

Oh, and the Indo is full of inaccurate tripe also. But its readers either don't give a damn or know no better.

So if you wanted a newspaper with an Irish perspective, what would you buy?

copacetic

cast_iron wrote: »

But the IT isn't exactly trustworthy either. Their editor was facing jail over an "unnamed source".

How is refusing to give up their sources untrustworthy? Thats a ludicrous statement. What they printed was true, the tribunal just wanted to find who leaked it to them.

imo there is only one option to buy if you want reasonable quality reporting and proper coverage of home events. They IT hasn't really got any competition anymore.

Dob74

The indo is more of a tabloid than a board sheet newspaper. It doesn't have proper news stories. It is just opinions. Anyone who doesn't agree with them is attacked. Anyone who crosses the O'Rielly's or there friends is fair game. I used to buy the indo every Sunday and I don't think you could find one proper news story. A few weeks ago I bought it a headline rang out polish leaving cars at Dublin Airport and leaving the country. When reading the article the quote of the DAA was "it happens from time to time". Hardly a news worthy item unless you are trying to imply that polish are fleeing the country in record numbers. Which according to official stats is not the case. I also know someone who was involved in a rival business scheme to one of the O'Rielly's and of course the all knowing Senator Shane Ross was attacking them every week for a month.
I don't like the the Irish Times left wing editorial position but a least the news stories dont have a slant, they are just strait stories not the editors opinions.

Mr. Incognito

Their journalists are idiots. Brendan O'Connor for example writes whatever comes into his head, he's a moron. They have no factual merit. An interview with the taoiseach recently by some muppet reporter was written from her perspective and what shoes she had on crossing some muck to disturb him and his family while they were holidaying in a caravan park in Clare.

It's the reality tv of newspapers. I like Gene Kerrigan but at this stage I'll just read his article and don't bother with buying the rest of the rubbish. Their social section is gastly.

It's a rag.

Irish Times is much more to my taste.

cast_iron

cson wrote: »

So if you wanted a newspaper with an Irish perspective, what would you buy?

I don't have time to read a paper cover to cover anymore. Just something to browse through over lunch, so the handy version of the Indo usually wins out.

copacetic wrote: »

How is refusing to give up their sources untrustworthy? Thats a ludicrous statement. What they printed was true, the tribunal just wanted to find who leaked it to them.

I suppose my point was more the fact that the paper was willing to leak the material in the first place. So much for the "due process" of the tribunal being allowed by the all high and mighty IT. I'd have expected that sort of behaviour from the Indo, but not the IT.

Sad Professor

asdasd wrote: »

Why not go to source, the Guardian, Reuters or the AP. The Irish times does little or no reporting.

I actually do go to those sources a lot. The Guardian is a great paper and I look it up online most days. But I want Irish news too.

Re: Brendan O'Connor — I really hate that guy but he writes for the Sindo. And I don't think the point can be made enough that the Indo and the Sindo are not the same thing. The Indo is rag, sure, but it's still readable; the same can't be said for the Sindo.

I generally find the IT very truth worthy but some of its Lisbon coverage makes me nervous. I'm no fan of Gangley but there was shades of communist blacklisting in the way the IT revealed the names of people at that Libertas/Klaus dinner. So they were at a dinner, who gives a f**k! But the IT created the image of a bunch of guys in a smoke-filled room, discussing a conspiracy to bring down the EU.

Which they probably were but still...

santosubito

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Their journalists are idiots. Brendan O'Connor for example writes whatever comes into his head, he's a moron. They have no factual merit. An interview with the taoiseach recently by some muppet reporter was written from her perspective and what shoes she had on crossing some muck to disturb him and his family while they were holidaying in a caravan park in Clare.

It's the reality tv of newspapers. I like Gene Kerrigan but at this stage I'll just read his article and don't bother with buying the rest of the rubbish. Their social section is gastly.

It's a rag.

Irish Times is much more to my taste.

Look, for once and for all, can we please differentiate between the Indo and Sindo? Seriously, the Sindo is a complete piece of poo. the Indo, though it has faults and has gone down hill big time since O'Regan took the helm, still has some decent stuff in it.

r3nu4l

irish_bob wrote: »

hating the indo or more specifically the sindo is an important part of being a self respecting lefty in this country, its up there with hating the pd,s , michael o leary and of course the profit motive

Hmmm, I have no problem with profit at all. Profit is a healthy thing to yearn after I do however really dislike both the Indo and it's Sunday sister paper. However, I would read the Indo if there was nothing else available but when it comes to the Sindo, I would actually rather watch paint dry than sully my eyes by even flicking a glance at it!

copacetic wrote: »

it's their standards of reporting, sensationalism, political bias, lack of actual fact checking before printing etc. the 'lifestyle' pieces pretending to be news.

This is certainly true of the Sindo. It's as if Sindo journalists decide on an opinion they are going to write about and THEN look for a story that they can wrap that opinion around to make it appear like news. Disgusting.

copacetic

r3nu4l wrote: »

This is certainly true of the Sindo. It's as if Sindo journalists decide on an opinion they are going to write about and THEN look for a story that they can wrap that opinion around to make it appear like news. Disgusting.

True enough, the Sindo is far worse than the indo, but it has really gone downhill lately as well. However it doesn't have such major problems with the truth I guess. I'm seeing quite a bit like my thread here in it these days:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055434008

HalloweenJack

I only ever read it if it's free or lying around. I hate the Indo, mainly because of Tony O'Neill/INAM being the owner.

What's inside is not good. They're many inaccuracies in it, some of them are glaringly obvious. It's full of sensationalist crap. I'm a serious guy and I want a serious paper. I only go for broadsheets and the Indo dresses itself up as one but it's not. It's really a poor excuse of a paper, imo.

One story sticks out in my mind. It was one of a family suicide-murder down in Wexford and, before the facts were out, the Indo had blamed the father. No libel of the dead and all that...

IT is a far better publication.

flogen

cast_iron wrote: »

I suppose my point was more the fact that the paper was willing to leak the material in the first place. So much for the "due process" of the tribunal being allowed by the all high and mighty IT. I'd have expected that sort of behaviour from the Indo, but not the IT.

The Irish Times didn't leak the information, the information was leaked to it.

Why them publishing something newsworthy makes them untrustworthy is hard for me to understand.

-

On the Independent itself I went off it a while ago - not long after it started bringing out its tabloid edition. Until that point I had read it regularly and considered it my first choice when it came to newspapers.

The problems I have with it are:

The amount of "celebrity" "news" featured, often put on the front page.
The creep of sensationalism and simply bad news reporting into so much of their coverage.
The bias they display/displayed when it comes to/came to anything Tony O'Reilly was involved in (like their silence on the bad broadband infrastructure when he controlled Eircom).
Their increasingly horrendous grammatical/spelling quality.
I also got aggravated at the triumphalism they displayed when readership results came out; every newspaper is guilty of blowing its own horn when it comes to readership but I remember one issue of the Independent in 2006 (as I was starting to go off it) having a 1/4 page cover story about how well they were selling, with graphs and everything. It always stuck in my head as it seemed so over the top and reminded me of what you would see on The News of the World or something.

santosubito

HalloweenJack wrote: »

I only ever read it if it's free or lying around. I hate the Indo, mainly because of Tony O'Neill/INAM being the owner.

What's inside is not good. They're many inaccuracies in it, some of them are glaringly obvious. It's full of sensationalist crap. I'm a serious guy and I want a serious paper. I only go for broadsheets and the Indo dresses itself up as one but it's not. It's really a poor excuse of a paper, imo.

One story sticks out in my mind. It was one of a family suicide-murder down in Wexford and, before the facts were out, the Indo had blamed the father. No libel of the dead and all that...

IT is a far better publication.

But it was the father. What do you want them to do? Wait for the inquest? Get real. Journalists are supposed to get information - it's their job. Jesus H!

Just like this "serious" newspaper is doing here:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1209/1228571686475.html

Conor Lally got the information and put it in the paper. He says a teenager shot him. There you go. Facts.


Edit: Oh, look, Lally's at it again - this time about the story to which you referred:
The Irish Times

April 28, 2008 Monday

Gardaí rule out third-party involvement in Wexford deaths

BYLINE: CONOR LALLY, Crime Correspondent,and TIM O'BRIEN and STEVEN CARROLL in Clonroche

SECTION: FRONT PAGE; Pg. 1

LENGTH: 481 words


NOTHING HAS emerged in the backgrounds of the young family offour killed in Wexford at the weekend to indicate a motive fortheir deaths, according to investigating gardaí.

Gardaí have ruled out third-party involvement and areworking on the theory that the deaths of Diarmuid Flood (41), hiswife Lorraine (38), and children Mark (6) and Julie (5), early onSaturday morning were the result of a murder-suicide.

Postmortems and the Garda's technical examination of the scenehad to be suspended yesterday after asbestos, believed to be fromroof tiles, was found in the Flood family's burnt home inClonroche.

The postmortems will resume this morning. Gardaí have alsosourced the breathing apparatus needed to resume their inspectionat first light today.

Prayers were said for the family and their relatives at SundayMass in the local St Clement's Catholic Church in Cloughbawn. FrRichard Redmond said the deaths had given the community "heavyhearts and a great sense of sadness".

The funerals are expected to take place later this week.

Mr Flood, from a well-known GAA family, was a successful andpopular businessman in Clonroche. He and Ms Flood were directors ofSeán Flood Water Pumps Ltd, a water filtration business.

Ms Flood was a fitness instructor and represented Waterford inthe Rose of Tralee competition some years ago.

Counselling services will be on offer in Clonroche NationalSchool today, where the Flood children were pupils. Schoolprincipal Norma Doyle described the children as "beautiful" and"bubbly".

The remains of the family of four were removed on Saturday nightto the State mortuary in Marino in Dublin for postmortemexamination.

Ms Flood's body was found in bed in the couple's upstairsbedroom and her husband in one of the reception rooms downstairs.Julie was found in her bed while Mark was on the landing of thehouse.

A legally held shotgun, owned by a third party, was found at thescene. The weapon was lent to Mr Flood some years ago and kept inhis house. The licence was maintained by the original owner.

Mr Flood's remains and those of his son had sustained burninjuries. However, Ms Flood and her daughter's remains were almostuntouched by the fire.

Ms Flood had injuries that appeared to have been caused bygunfire. Gardaí are satisfied Mr Flood also died of a singlegunshot wound. The children had not been shot and had noinjuries.

Reliable Garda sources said the first two days of theinvestigation had unearthed nothing that might indicate a family incrisis. The Floods were said to have been a popular, outgoingfamily with no known money worries, relationship difficulties,substance abuse issues or any history of mental illness. Thecouple's phone records will also be studied. Gardaí are awareof local reports that Mr Flood had consulted a doctor in recentdays for stress-related difficulties and that a phone call was madefrom their house at about 5.30am on Saturday.

irish_bob

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Their journalists are idiots. Brendan O'Connor for example writes whatever comes into his head, he's a moron. They have no factual merit. An interview with the taoiseach recently by some muppet reporter was written from her perspective and what shoes she had on crossing some muck to disturb him and his family while they were holidaying in a caravan park in Clare.

It's the reality tv of newspapers. I like Gene Kerrigan but at this stage I'll just read his article and don't bother with buying the rest of the rubbish. Their social section is gastly.

It's a rag.

Irish Times is much more to my taste.

are you saying what he writes about the public service is not factual

Tom Dunne

I have stopped reading the Independent and the Sindo, not because of who owns them, not because of any perceived bias, but simply because both papers are on a race to the bottom with sensationalist nonsense and celebrity tripe.

I don't want to read another sentence about a "close-knit" community, or a "brave" person, or a family that has been "devestated". Nor to I care what colour knickers the latest intellectually barren, wannabe starlet is wearing, assuming she is wearing any at all.

To prove my point, I though I would see could I find an article from todays paper with the above tabloidy terms, and sure enough, I did.

'nuff said.

santosubito

Tom Dunne wrote: »

I have stopped reading the Independent and the Sindo, not because of who owns them, not because of any perceived bias, but simply because both papers are on a race to the bottom with sensationalist nonsense and celebrity tripe.

I don't want to read another sentence about a "close-knit" community, or a "brave" person, or a family that has been "devestated". Nor to I care what colour knickers the latest intellectually barren, wannabe starlet is wearing, assuming she is wearing any at all.

To prove my point, I though I would see could I find an article from todays paper with the above tabloidy terms, and sure enough, I did.

'nuff said.

Ah, right. So, the man at the centre of the whole pig **** up says the events have been devastating for him. Let's not quote him on that at all. Where's the newsworthiness in that?
If he says it, print it. What's the problem? You don't want to read how he, personally, feels about it? Or, do you expect the reporter to ignore it? Bizarre.

copacetic

copacetic wrote: »

True enough, the Sindo is far worse than the indo, but it has really gone downhill lately as well. However it doesn't have such major problems with the truth I guess. I'm seeing quite a bit like my thread here in it these days:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055434008

santosubito wrote: »

Ah, right. So, the man at the centre of the whole pig **** up says the events have been devastating for him. Let's not quote him on that at all. Where's the newsworthiness in that?
If he says it, print it. What's the problem? You don't want to read how he, personally, feels about it? Or, do you expect the reporter to ignore it? Bizarre.

Can see your point there, but how do you explain away my one above?

Tom Dunne

santosubito wrote: »

What's the problem? You don't want to read how he, personally, feels about it? Or, do you expect the reporter to ignore it? Bizarre.

My point is I don't want to read a sensationalised version of events, which include the standard tabloid staples I mention above.

Just the facts, not the hype.

partyguinness

I personally find the Indo..well the SINDO really..is horrible little paper full of opinion..no actual news..just bitter commentry from very bitter people..with a very particular agenda...how cld anyone tolerate the like of Brendan O'Connor, Kevin Myres, Harris etc...its just an excuse for them to rant...and I cannot stand the blantanlty anti-republican stance...

santosubito

copacetic wrote: »

Can see your point there, but how do you explain away my one above?

There's no explanation for that at all. Just crap journalism.

santosubito

Tom Dunne wrote: »

My point is I don't want to read a sensationalised version of events, which include the standard tabloid staples I mention above.

Just the facts, not the hype.

But, to be fair, it's a factual quote. Surely you don't want them to ignore what he said?

r3nu4l

santosubito wrote: »

But, to be fair, it's a factual quote. Surely you don't want them to ignore what he said?

You are nitpicking. The point is that Tom Dunne and most others generally don't want to be told the journalists opinion on events. We don't want the sensational hype.

We don't want to read stories that say things such as 'this tight knit community has been devastated by [Government/Republican/Garda/group journo wants to target] ineptitude."

I want facts, let me make up my own mind about whether something is 'outrageous', 'inept' etc. Let me decide if Katy French is 'tragic' or just another 'stupid cokehead that snorted her way to a death'. Don't give me your slant on it and try to influence my decision making. That's what I hate about the Indo but particularly so about the Sindo.

copacetic

Well I think it is a good point that in this particular example it is just a quote, can't really blame them for using that..


and on the lighter side they spelt it right, unlike Tom!!

Tom Dunne

copacetic wrote: »

Well I think it is a good point that in this particular example it is just a quote, can't really blame them for using that..

r3nu4l wrote: »

You are nitpicking.

Ok, I concede that one.

But my point still stands. In articles where a subject is not quoted directly, you can be sure the tabloid element will be prevalent.

As r3nu4l says, I want to make up my own mind, so present me with the cold, hard facts, lose the emotion, lose the hype.

copacetic wrote: »

and on the lighter side they spelt it right, unlike Tom!!

Spelt? What kind of English is that? The word is spelled.



Actually, what did I spell wrong, apart from "todays"?

pipsqueak

The Indo is full of recession porn, and most who read it are well off middle class who are in no danger of losing their jobs.
they read it to feel smug about how secure their lifestyle is!

copacetic

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Spelt? What kind of English is that? The word is spelled.



Actually, what did I spell wrong, apart from "todays"?

not in the indo! devestated? your key word and example!

and I better not find out that is some kind of alternate ameri-english version, I wil be sad.

I don't want to read another sentence about a "close-knit" community, or a "brave" person, or a family that has been "devestated".

MaxFlower

I lost interest in the Indo when I read two small columns on the same page a few years back.

Column 1. (paraphrased) Gardai commended in action against gang involved in street riot.
Column 2. (Again paraphrased) Members of the Gardai accused of over-reaction to street revellers.

Both were in the same location at the same time of day so I took it to be the same story - so why the slant?

santosubito

r3nu4l wrote: »

You are nitpicking. The point is that Tom Dunne and most others generally don't want to be told the journalists opinion on events. We don't want the sensational hype.

We don't want to read stories that say things such as 'this tight knit community has been devastated by [Government/Republican/Garda/group journo wants to target] ineptitude."

I want facts, let me make up my own mind about whether something is 'outrageous', 'inept' etc. Let me decide if Katy French is 'tragic' or just another 'stupid cokehead that snorted her way to a death'. Don't give me your slant on it and try to influence my decision making. That's what I hate about the Indo but particularly so about the Sindo.

I'm nitpicking in the following sense: It's not the journalist's opinion or slant - it is what was said.
Tom Dunne was using this as an example to prove his pint. My argument is that it is a weak example to use. He should go and get a better one.

theprodigals0n

It's a useless tabloid. I used to buy it occasionally, but stopped when they had an article stating that Mary Lou McDonald had lost some weight and then followed it up with "her lot would know a lot about that". Since then whenever I've glanced at the paper I've realised that most of their articles are woeful and they have opinion pieces dressed up as factual articles. Even when they hand the paper out for free in college I don't even bother grabbing one.

irish_bob

pipsqueak wrote: »

The Indo is full of recession porn, and most who read it are well off middle class who are in no danger of losing their jobs.
they read it to feel smug about how secure their lifestyle is!

the group which would be best fitted to your description ( middle class , smug , no danger of loosing thier job ) are the public sector , yet the sindo criticises them all the time

pipsqueak

irish_bob wrote: »

the group which would be best fitted to your description ( middle class , smug , no danger of loosing thier job ) are the public sector , yet the sindo criticises them all the time

yea public setor workers caused all this mess, with their multi million euro pay packets!!

lostexpectation

all the opinion journalism is the problem, i don't even like it in the times. write a report or analysis not opinion.

asdasd

yea public setor workers caused all this mess, with their multi million euro pay packets!!

who exactly are you arguing against? Did the person who said public sector employees caused all this mess delete his post? Did the person who said public sector employees have million dollar salaries delete his post?

irish_bob said, correctly, that pretty much the only part of the middle classes who are safe in this recession are public sector employees. That is because private sector employees can lose their jobs, middle class or not. Try keep up.

cast_iron

flogen wrote: »

The Irish Times didn't leak the information, the information was leaked to it.

Apologies, that's what I meant.

flogen wrote: »

Why them publishing something newsworthy makes them untrustworthy is hard for me to understand.

If it was that simple, I wouldn't understand it either. But, the IT published details of leaked documents that were yet to be covered by the tribunal. Whilst the motives of those who leaked these documents may be questionable, they are irrelevant in the case in point.
Some things are confidential for a reason; I'd rather let a judge decide what should be kept out of the public arena than the editor of a national newspaper. I just think it brings a bit of the tabloid phenomen 'it's newsworthy, so print it' that I would expect from the Indo and co. The IT and investigative journalism, leaks, etc. don't really go hand in hand for me.

Pen1987

cast_iron wrote: »

I'd rather let a judge decide what should be kept out of the public arena than the editor of a national newspaper.

Jayzuz mate... I suggest you take your next holiday to Moscow... Moscow in the 1970s. That's a crazy attitude in my opinion. The second estate deciding what the fourth estate should cover?

flogen

cast_iron wrote: »

If it was that simple, I wouldn't understand it either. But, the IT published details of leaked documents that were yet to be covered by the tribunal. Whilst the motives of those who leaked these documents may be questionable, they are irrelevant in the case in point.
Some things are confidential for a reason;

My understanding of the situation - and I may be wrong here - is that the information published by the IT was not deemed to be off limits by the tribunal, it was just something they hadn't gotten to yet. Also the evidence had been circulated to a number of parties (anyone who was involved in the Tribunal, which is a lot of people) so it was hardly treated with strict 'need to know' confidentiality.

It's not a newspaper's job to create a water-tight case for or against a person or party like you would need to in court - it's simply to inform the public of facts. Just because a court does not consider something, or deems something confidential, it does not mean it automatically is.

That doesn't mean it automatically isn't, of course, and discretion is required -it is not the same as having a 'print anything' attitude.

I'd rather let a judge decide what should be kept out of the public arena than the editor of a national newspaper.

I certainly would not but unfortunately they some times do.

I just think it brings a bit of the tabloid phenomen 'it's newsworthy, so print it' that I would expect from the Indo and co.

If something was newsworthy who wouldn't you print it? Perhaps your issue is with what 'newsworthy' means.

The IT and investigative journalism, leaks, etc. don't really go hand in hand for me.

I don't think any publication is really know for its investigative journalism nowadays, sadly.

sceptre

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Their journalists are idiots. Brendan O'Connor for example writes whatever comes into his head, he's a moron. They have no factual merit. An interview with the taoiseach recently by some muppet reporter was written from her perspective and what shoes she had on crossing some muck to disturb him and his family while they were holidaying in a caravan park in Clare.

That tends to be what Tom Humphries does all the time (I assume on the basis that in his case he knows someone else is writing the match report on the next page)

jdivision

cast_iron wrote: »

I suppose my point was more the fact that the paper was willing to leak the material in the first place. So much for the "due process" of the tribunal being allowed by the all high and mighty IT. I'd have expected that sort of behaviour from the Indo, but not the IT.

Its their job to break news so that's it. Also the tribunal wasn't going to be allowed to investigate it so it wouldn't have come out in due process. at least be somewhat informed before casting aspersions. By the way i think the irish times news content is chronic and far too often they rely on their self-proclaimed paper of record title to justify ripping off other newspapers' stories.