Tesco and Self Service Checkouts

MrsMcSteamy

Hi, new to all this, anyways posting on behalf of my sister, dont know if this thread belongs here so sorry if not.

So anyways, my sister went into our local Tesco store in Offaly. She was picking up a few bits and bobs and a few bottles of bud. When she went to the self service checkout she scanned her bud and the beep beep alert came on for staff to age verify for the sale of alcohol.

Now i should point out my sister is 25. The staff member came over and quizzed her for a second, seemed happy with her response and proceeded to enter in the code to allow her to complete her transaction. She paid for her goods and got her receipt and proceeded to leave.

Then she was stopped by the staff member who had approved the transaction and said she would need to see some id from her. So my sister proceeded out to her car and came back in and provided her licence verifying her age of 25. The staff member said it was unacceptable and she would need to see a passport or another form of id, which she didnt have. The staff member then said she wud have to confiscate the alcohol and refund her. Anyone else have this problem? Sorry for the long post but lets just say my sis is none to impressed !!

eth0_

Tell her to make an official complaint to Tesco head office. A full driving licence or passport are valid, legal forms of ID.

And then never shop in Tesco again.

jor el

Once she paid for the goods, they were legally hers. Tesco staff have no right to confiscate anything after they have accepted payment. Your sister should ask for the manager at the store, and complain that the staff member (hopefully she got their name) illegally confiscated her goods, and also that the staff member allowed the sale of alcohol without first checking ID, which both the staff member and Tesco can be in a lot of trouble for.

She really shouldn't have given back the drink, she shouldn't have even gone to get ID, as the sale had already been completed.

craichoe

I would have told her to f*ck off and left.

MrsMcSteamy

thanks for the replies, anyone know if she can do anything about it, even though she has gone from the store

steps_3314

I would have told her to f**k off also. Employee was at fault in the first place. I've never had that problem in Tesco's so i would continue to shop there. Ask for manager and make an official complaint as the previous poster said your sister legally owned the products after the purchase.

TheDriver

Indeed, if they tried to stop you and called security, they are opening up a massive legal hole for themselves in same light as wrongful arrest. Also, drivers licence in Ireland (once full) is a legally acceptable form of ID whereas for some reason, provisionals are not.

MarkR

MrsMcSteamy wrote: »

thanks for the replies, anyone know if she can do anything about it, even though she has gone from the store

As above, complain to manager of store, in writing. Contact tesco from their website giving as much detail as possible. Even better if you have your receipt.

Cabaal

thing is, Tesco had sold the drink, so even if your sister was under age they had already broken the law and could be fined for doing so.
sounds like somebody on a power trip!

Corruptedmorals

Tesco only accept passports, I've sen this enforced in loads of Tesco's and heard about it from people who worked there, so this is probably the main issue.

keane2097

So this so-called company policy they have of only accepting Garda ID/Passport is illegal on their part??

Lollipops23

Corruptedmorals wrote: »

Tesco only accept passports, I've sen this enforced in loads of Tesco's and heard about it from people who worked there, so this is probably the main issue.

i was in tesco years ago and my swedish mate was buying wine(we were all old enough) and presented her passport as ID. lady behind the counter said they only accepted garda id cards, my friend explained she was foreign and didn't have one. No dice, said the lady.we walked out and bought the wine at the local offo.

Passport and driving licences are legal, state approved forms of ID. they have to be accepted.

also, the goods were legally your sisters, the assistant had no right to demand them back.

IsThatSo?

Corruptedmorals wrote: »

Tesco only accept passports, I've sen this enforced in loads of Tesco's and heard about it from people who worked there, so this is probably the main issue.

Crazy policy :eek:

I don't make a habit of carrying my passport around with me at all times just in case someone wants it as ID!!!!

snubbleste

The supermarket is required to confirm the purchaser is over 18. It is up to the supermarket to decide what form(s) of ID they will accept.

As others said OP, get your sister to write a long stinky letter to the manager of the store.

MrsMcSteamy

Thanks a million for all the replies , i will tell my sis to send them a letter, will let ya all know if she gets a reply but i wont be holding out much hope

craichoe

Corruptedmorals wrote: »

Tesco only accept passports, I've sen this enforced in loads of Tesco's and heard about it from people who worked there, so this is probably the main issue.

Regardless .. the issue here is the ops sister had already purchased the goods, therefore she owned the goods, futhermore she had left the shop, if the staff or security had attempted to detain her it would be false arrest. Everything after they accepted payment for the goods, if they attempted to stop her would be false inprisonment.

cast_iron

MrsMcSteamy wrote: »

Thanks a million for all the replies , i will tell my sis to send them a letter, will let ya all know if she gets a reply but i wont be holding out much hope

Don't waste your time with a letter. Call into the store to speak with the manager face to face. At least you will be guaranteed a response. Any letter will likely be ignored.

cgarvey

snubbleste wrote: »

The supermarket is required to confirm the purchaser is over 18. It is up to the supermarket to decide what form(s) of ID they will accept.

That was my understanding too.

eth0_, TheDriver and Lollipops23, have you any source for the legal requirement to accept state ID?

jor el, there's no requirement to check ID, just to be satisfied that the customer is over 18. How you do that is up to you (the vendor), (as is any risks associated with that approach, obviously).

Lollipops23

well it's not like a nightclub where they can choose not to let you in cos they don't like the look of you!

you need a passport to get a Garda ID....that in itself makes a mockery of refusing a passport in favour of a Garda ID!!!

MunsterCycling

If ID is requested and cannot be produced then the vendor musn't sell the item (drink/cigs) to that person, the transaction was complete according to the OP so the matter of ID is moot

MC

gerrycollins

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Passport and driving licences are legal, state approved forms of ID. they have to be accepted.

.

they do not have to be accepted, the retailer can accecpt what they like. I have seen faked driving licences(pretty crap tho). retailers who only accecpt garda id do so because if it ever went to court the retailer can only defend on the garda id anything else is too risky

rubadub

Lollipops23 wrote: »

well it's not like a nightclub where they can choose not to let you in cos they don't like the look of you!

But they could, you often see signs, the managment reserves the right to refuse admission. I am pretty sure they could legally refuse to sell you something, be it bread or booze, and not have to give a reason.

gerrycollins

rubadub wrote: »

But they could, you often see signs, the managment reserves the right to refuse admission. I am pretty sure they could legally refuse to sell you something, be it bread or booze, and not have to give a reason.

no, they cant just refuse because they want to that would contravene your equaility rights for a start.

you can be refused service for many reasons and yes you have to be given one.

where bouncers have you is a drunken persons provision in the liquor laws where by a person whom the bouncers/bar staff/checkout girl thinks has consumed excess amounts can be refused service/entry on that grounds alone. I know mates of mine who are non alco's who get this treatment but there is nothing really you can do about it because it does not contavene your equaility rights.

JohnC.

Corruptedmorals wrote: »

Tesco only accept passports, I've sen this enforced in loads of Tesco's and heard about it from people who worked there, so this is probably the main issue.

Who on earth carries their passport everywhere with them?

parsi

People who look young and regularly buy beer in Tesco maybe....

dudara

I think that Tesco clearly state on posters and signs that they only accept Garda ID. I don't think that there is any legal issue with this as long as they inform you.

As most posters have pointed out, your sister had completed the sale and the goods were hers. By selling them to her, and by her paying, the contract was complete.

cgarvey

gerrycollins wrote: »

you can be refused service for many reasons and yes you have to be given one.

There is no legal obligation for you to be told a reason.

cgarvey wrote: »

eth0_, TheDriver and Lollipops23, have you any source for the legal requirement to accept state ID?

Still waiting.

Agreed (in an attempt to remain on-topic) that the sale was completed and the goods were hers. Tesco should have called the Gardaí at that stage, as they'd no right to confiscate her goods.

gerrycollins

cgarvey wrote: »

There is no legal obligation for you to be told a reason.

Agreed (in an attempt to remain on-topic) that the sale was completed and the goods were hers. Tesco should have called the Gardaí at that stage, as they'd no right to confiscate her goods.

Trust me I know first hand that if I want to refuse service I have to give a legitimate legal reason why.

In essence what your saying is that I can refuse service to a person just because i dont like them and not give them a reason. You open yourself to such legal shoe in the hole its not worth it.

That person can automatically assume I'm refusing service because they are who they are ie members of the travelling community and can do me over a barrell for the same reason, I have no proof later that I refused service for a particular reason,ie they were abusive to my staff or I was unhappy that they had already consumed alcohol in excess.

back on topic I agree that Tesco messed up big time.

Sam Vimes

gerrycollins wrote: »

no, they cant just refuse because they want to that would contravene your equaility rights for a start.

It would only contravene your equality rights if you were refused for a reason that's covered by equality legislation (eg race or religion)

But as was said it's best not to because if the person happens to be a member of such a group they can pretend they were kicked out for that reason and screw you

MrsMcSteamy

But if im not mistaken dont their signs state if you are lucky enough to be between 18 and 23 you should carry some form of id. However she is 25, actually 26 in a week, she has never had this problem before and on numerous occasions purchased alcohol from this store. She showed me her receipt today, they sent her over to the customer service counter for her refund and the girl crossed out the alcohol with a pen, and also ripped off the bottom end of the receipt anyone here know why they would do that ??

Thanks by the way for all the replies

Shelflife

THey had no right to take back the product once the transaction was finished, technically if they detained her its false imprizonment.

they can have any conditions relating to their sale of goods, ie only people in blue shirts can buy drink, if thats what they choose to do. imo not accepting a drivers licence is poor practise.

Gerry i never give a reason for refusing admission, imo if you give a reason it opens up the whole slander area, your under no obligation to do so as effectively the shop is private property. but i do agree with you that is a sticky area.

Shelflife

just in addition, the staff member had no right to ask for id after the transaction was completed and had no right to confiscate the product (thats theft).

i would go and see the manager and talk to him because this is unacceptable behaviour and from the shop point of view its a dangerous procedure.

I would tell him that i wasnt happy and felt violated ( i wouldnt make a big song and dance about it, its not the end of the world ) but would feel less violated if some vouchers came your way.

calex71

i've always been curious about the use of passports as id , id never carry mine except when away.

Can a shop / pub etc legally ask you for your passport as a form of id?
I ask because i don't know but my gut tells me that they cant and can only accept it as id if you offer it? Could some one in the know clear that up for us?

Red Alert

Your sister could technically have just left and not brought back her ID at all and driven off. Once she bought the goods they've no right whatsoever to try and make her give them back.

mikemac

calex71 wrote: »

Can a shop / pub etc legally ask you for your passport as a form of id?
I ask because i don't know but my gut tells me that they cant and can only accept it as id if you offer it? Could some one in the know clear that up for us?

No, it's the property of Dept of Foreign Affairs and is intended for travel or to show to government employees; airport police, immigration officers, etc.
Identifies you as an Irish citizen and you'll see text from the minister asking that people respect that

So a club that a sign "passports only" cannot do this
A bouncer has no right to demand a passport, doesn't mean it doesn't happen though

cgarvey

gerrycollins wrote: »

Trust me I know first hand that if I want to refuse service I have to give a legitimate legal reason why.

I don't trust that advice, sorry.

You have a right to refuse admission, as long as the grounds are non-discriminatory. The person you refuse admission to has no right to an excuse. They can of course take action against you if they believe the reason to be discriminatory (which is why, as you say, you have to be very careful).

My point is, and remains, the person refused has no legal entitlement to a reason for refusal. That's not to be confused, in any way, with any relaxation of your obligations under liquor licensing (dance hall, exemptions, etc.) or equality legislation.

cgarvey

micmclo wrote: »

So a club that a sign "passports only" cannot do this
A bouncer has no right to demand a passport, doesn't mean it doesn't happen though

He/she does. Not having a form of ID that staff are trained to recognise (and recognise fakes, more importantly) is a legitimate reason for refusal. Whether or not it's state/state-sanctioned ID doesn't matter.

MrsMcSteamy

Red Alert wrote: »

Your sister could technically have just left and not brought back her ID at all and driven off. Once she bought the goods they've no right whatsoever to try and make her give them back.

Well she left the goods when she went to get the id

angelfire9

Corruptedmorals wrote: »

Tesco only accept passports, I've sen this enforced in loads of Tesco's and heard about it from people who worked there, so this is probably the main issue.

Think this might be kind illegal:

Ref: Intoxicating Liquor Act 2003, Section 15:

15.—The Act of 1988 is amended by inserting the following section after section 34:

“Production of evidence of age by persons between 18 and 21 years.
34A.—(1) The holder of a licence of any licensed premises shall not allow a person who is aged at least 18 years but under the age of 21 years to be in the bar of those premises between 9.00 p.m. and 10.30 a.m. on the following day (12.30 p.m. if the following day is a Sunday) if the person does not produce an age document to the holder.

(2) For the purposes of subsection (1) of this section ‘age document’ means a document containing a photograph of the person in respect of whom it was issued and information that enables the age of the person to be determined and being one of the following documents relating to a person referred to in that subsection:

(a) an age card referred to in section 40 of this Act,

(b) a passport,

(c) an identity card issued by a member state of the European Communities,

(d) a driver licence, or

(e) a document issued by a body, and in a form, prescribed by regulations made by the Minister.

.

Source: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2003/en/act/pub/0031/sec0015.html#partiii-sec15

tallniamh

Something very similar happened to me in Tesco in Tallaght last night. I went in to get a few things and picked up some alcohol with it. I'm 26, don't look younger than I'd say 24 maybe (unfortunately!!) and haven't been asked for any ID in years. Went to the checkout - the girl scanned the stuff though and asked me for ID. I was a bit surprised but took out my driving licience (I don't carry around a passport and don't have a garda ID). She didn't even look at it and said "sorry, passport or garda id only". I told her I didn't have any but that I was 26 and she said she would ask the supervisor. At this stage there was a queue behind me and the guy behind was laughing and saying I should take it as a compliment - I was laughing along as well.
The supervisor came over and looked at my drivers licience and said "oh I know that you're 26 but I can't accept this ID"??!!! And that if a manager came out he would say the same thing (I hadn't asked to see a manager). So as far as she was concerned, I was over the legal age, had a usually valid form of ID (in 99% of places) but still wouldn't serve me. I was a bit annoyed but just said grand, I'll get it somewhere else. So I paid for the other items, was a little embarrassed but didn't kick up a fuss or anything.
Then, the guy behind me asked the girl at the checkout if he could buy it for me. She agreed??!! So she scanned in the alcohol, watched as I handed him the money, he handed her the money and she watched as I took the alcohol, put it into my bags and walked out....!!
Now if they had have really believed that I was underage (or if indeed I was), then how could they have done that?? That would have been completely illegal surely??
Seems to me to be a case of crazy company policy, staff not being trained properly and also a bit of a lack of discretion and cop on amongst the supervisors.....
Don't get me wrong - I wasn't really that annoyed about having been refused, just surprised, but to then let someone else buy the alcohol for me??

Shelflife

Its not illegal , tesco can decide that as company policy they will only sell drink to customers in blue shirts, not a good policy but its up to them.

in the same way they can decide what forms of id they will accept as company policy.

cgarvey

angelfire9 wrote: »

Think this might be kind illegal:

Ref: Intoxicating Liquor Act 2003, Section 15:

Excellent, someone who has done some of their homework, thank you!

However, in that case, that is merely a list of acceptable IDs, and does not, in any way, mean that you have to accept one of them.

Loosely translated, a publican can go to court and say that dude was 19 according to his driving license (where as he wouldn't have much of a case if he said College ID or Youth Club card). However, he could equally take the stance that Garda IDs are too easy to fake, he can't afford (or be arsed) to train his staff and purchase technology to tell if they are fake or not, so he has a blanket ban. Perfectly legal, in my opinion (and I'm no solicitor!).

Shelflife

Tall niamh they have effectively shot themselves in the foot there because they ebasicallt said that we dont believe that you are over age, but by knowling allowing someone else to buy you drink then they are still breaking the law (if you were actually underage that is).

totally stupid on their part , fwiw i would have left all my groceries there and shopped elsewhere.

its a totally stupid inhouse regulation.

ejmaztec

Shelflife wrote: »

Tall niamh they have effectively shot themselves in the foot there because they ebasicallt said that we dont believe that you are over age, but by knowling allowing someone else to buy you drink then they are still breaking the law (if you were actually underage that is).

totally stupid on their part , fwiw i would have left all my groceries there and shopped elsewhere.

its a totally stupid inhouse regulation.

Like in an independent local shop?

Shelflife

But of course , where you will be treated like royalty and with oooddles of common sense.

ejmaztec

Shelflife wrote: »

But of course , where you will be treated like royalty and with oooddles of common sense.

:pac::D:P

they rip the bottom of the receipt as they need the code off the bottom for their records, however, they are supposed to write this code down because they'll need it if she goes back to get a refund on something else on same receipt. With regards to scribbling out the item, that is so that she doesn't try to use the receipt again to get a refund on same type of product.

B*stards. Report them.

angelfire9

cgarvey wrote: »

Excellent, someone who has done some of their homework, thank you!

However, in that case, that is merely a list of acceptable IDs, and does not, in any way, mean that you have to accept one of them.

Loosely translated, a publican can go to court and say that dude was 19 according to his driving license (where as he wouldn't have much of a case if he said College ID or Youth Club card). However, he could equally take the stance that Garda IDs are too easy to fake, he can't afford (or be arsed) to train his staff and purchase technology to tell if they are fake or not, so he has a blanket ban. Perfectly legal, in my opinion (and I'm no solicitor!).

I would beg to differ:
According to the LAW :

Intoxicating Liquor Act 2003 wrote:

(2) For the purposes of subsection (1) of this section ‘age document’ means a document containing a photograph of the person in respect of whom it was issued and information that enables the age of the person to be determined and being one of the following documents relating to a person referred to in that subsection:

(a) an age card referred to in section 40 of this Act,

(b) a passport,

(c) an identity card issued by a member state of the European Communities,

(d) a driver licence, or

(e) a document issued by a body, and in a form, prescribed by regulations made by the Minister.

Therefore, by law an age card, a passport an EU ID Card a driver's licence or other government approved ID are acceptable forms of Identification for the purpose of the Intoxicating Liquor Act
Personally i'd have argued the toss with them over it, BECAUSE a driving licence is a legally recognised form of identification in accordance with the ILA 2003 and Tesco have no right to refuse that ID Irish Law supersedes company policy!

craichoe

angelfire9 wrote: »

I would beg to differ:
According to the LAW :



Therefore, by law an age card, a passport an EU ID Card a driver's licence or other government approved ID are acceptable forms of Identification for the purpose of the Intoxicating Liquor Act
Personally i'd have argued the toss with them over it, BECAUSE a driving licence is a legally recognised form of identification in accordance with the ILA 2003 and Tesco have no right to refuse that ID Irish Law supersedes company policy!

Regardless .. again it doesnt matter .. once money was exchanged the transaction was complete, the goods were hers.

If indeed she was underage the shop would already be liable for a fine regardless of the refund as they would have already been sold to a minor.

cgarvey

angelfire9 wrote: »

Tesco have no right to refuse that ID Irish Law supersedes company policy!

Of course the law supersedes co. policy, but nowhere in any liquor licensing, that I have read, is there a requirement to accept any of the listed IDs. There is a requirement that persons, under certain criteria, must have one of the listed forms of ID, but not that they must be all accepted. It's an interpretation that's in widespread use (not just Tesco).

Anyway, I've argued the point enough, and dragged this off-topic enough, so I'll leave it at that. You're, of course, free to have your own interpretation and I appreciate the effort you went to to provide the related laws you're referencing (as against the earlier posters).

On topic, Tesco had no right to confiscate the booze. End of. There's no other interpretation of that!

Solair

They did this to me once too, I was 3/4 way through a very large trolley of groceries.

I presented a driving licence (I'm in my late 20s and DO NOT look <18). She refused it, so I simply abandoned the huge trolly load of groceries and walked out.

Unfortunately, I operate an official policy of not dealing with retailers who try to publicly humiliate me.