Iarnrod Éireann - stuck in the middle of nowhere

Kashkai

Last night, while heading home on the 17.50 hour train to Sallins, the train stopped after about 5 minutes. Two CIE guys went down the train and nothing happened for 35 minutes. Then we eventually started rolling again.

Question is, why the hell can't IR do something as simple as make a bloody announcement as to what was wrong and when they anticipated moving again. My wife was waiting with our kids to pick me up at Sallins and I didn't know whether to tell her to go home or to wait or how long it would be before I got to Sallins. Judging by the amount of irate phone calls going on around me, I wasn't the only one who was pissed off at the indefinite delay which could easily have been rectified if the IR train personnel would have had the courtesy and cop on to at least keep us informed of what the problem was.

Sean9015

I was on this train, and made the same point to the guard when I got off at Portarlington. Apparently, the reason was that some eejit had pulled the emergency brake handle, and the train had to be inspected to make sure there wasn't a problem (eg that said eejit had released a door to get out). I did point out that (a) no announcement was made, and (b) an apology for the late running would be nice. He claimed he was on the ground outside the train while stopped (just before Adamstown).

paulm17781

I wasn't there. The thing is, if it was an emergency break, they knew exactly the problem and would have had an estimation how long it'd take to check it out. There is no reason they couldn't have announced this. :mad:

Sean9015

paulm17781 wrote: »

I wasn't there. The thing is, if it was an emergency break, they knew exactly the problem and would have had an estimation how long it'd take to check it out. There is no reason they couldn't have announced this. :mad:

Don't shoot the messenger! Read my post : as I said (twice), I approached the guard to complain about precisely that. I just relayed the information I got for the OP. I don't see how my post could be construed as defending the crew at all.

Ham'nd'egger

The Emergency Brake could be set up by more ways than the cord being pulled by a passenger (Whom may have had due reason to, let's be devils advocate), including a collision or obstruction on the line, the brake pipes or systems being cut or breaking, a driver taking ill and not being in control of the train (The deadman's handle would brake the train in this situation) or a train derailment.

In fairness, while a crew ought to let people know that there may be a hold up, they may not know early on what the exact issue is until it's checked out so it's hard to say how long a hold up will be or what is causing a delay. Their main concern is making sure that the train is safe and secure and this can take quite a while to check out before they can say exactly what is the issue holding up the train. Also, if the crew are checking out something outside of the train, it goes without saying that they can't announce anything until they return onto the train.

paulm17781

Sean9015 wrote: »

Don't shoot the messenger! Read my post : as I said (twice), I approached the guard to complain about precisely that. I just relayed the information I got for the OP. I don't see how my post could be construed as defending the crew at all.

Whoa there.

I was agreeing with, backing up your point. Apologies if it didn't come across that way.

fricatus

Hamndegger wrote: »

In fairness, while a crew ought to let people know that there may be a hold up, they may not know early on what the exact issue is until it's checked out so it's hard to say how long a hold up will be or what is causing a delay. Their main concern is making sure that the train is safe and secure and this can take quite a while to check out before they can say exactly what is the issue holding up the train. Also, if the crew are checking out something outside of the train, it goes without saying that they can't announce anything until they return onto the train.

In fairness, could they not make an immediate announcement saying something along the lines of what you've just said, and assuring passengers that they'll give an estimate of the delay as soon as there is one?

That wouldn't cost a penny, but it would soothe the ire of the passengers, who are totally in the dark as to what's happening and why.

Ham'nd'egger

fricatus wrote: »

In fairness, could they not make an immediate announcement saying something along the lines of what you've just said, and assuring passengers that they'll give an estimate of the delay as soon as there is one?

That wouldn't cost a penny, but it would soothe the ire of the passengers, who are totally in the dark as to what's happening and why.

Something along the lines of...

"This train is delayed, we don't know how or why or for how long". Bound to appease a passenger

MOH

Hamndegger wrote: »

Something along the lines of...

"This train is delayed, we don't know how or why or for how long". Bound to appease a passenger

That's pretty much the announcement they usually make, whenever they bother to.

BendiBus

Hamndegger wrote: »

Something along the lines of...

"This train is delayed, we don't know how or why or for how long". Bound to appease a passenger

It DOES appease passengers.

"Ladies & gentlemen, this is your train conductor speaking. I'd like to apologise for the delay we are currently experiencing. As soon as I have more information about the nature of the problem and the likely delay, I will pass this on to you. Thank you for your patience."

Or something like that. They do it in the UK and it's very good.

Mr. Presentable

Unless things have improved dramatically any announcement would sound like "hfffnrr, hfffnr, hfffnr, hffnnrrr, Galway" i.e., useless.

serfboard

nipplenuts wrote: »

Unless things have improved dramatically any announcement would sound like "hfffnrr, hfffnr, hfffnr, hffnnrrr, Galway" i.e., useless.

Brilliant! LMAO!:D

Owenw

hahaha, i was on one of the brand new trains on Thursday (y'know the 'commuter' trains branded as 'intercity' :pac:) and the messages were all like that. Do they sling a 3.5mm 'walkman' cable between the conjoined trainsets???

Dunno what's worse, the lack of useful announcements, or the barrage of pre-recorded drivvel we get everyday i mBearla agus as Gaelige!

alan4cult

The new 22000 railcar trains have automatic announcements which are useless and could be done without. They go something along the lines of "We regret that this train has been delayed..." and indicate that the crew will inform of the exact details (which never seems to happen). Having said that these delays have been the order of 3/4 mins so it's not really a problem. However when I have been delayed for a long time there was always an announcement so the OP's case is an exception (to me anyway). Perhaps the public address system wasn't working. Sometimes it may work in 1 carriage and not in another?

Judgement Day

What are you complaining about? According to IE's own website the 22k railcars will be ' a streamlined design featuring curved front end and new livery', there will be audio and text display passenger information systems on-board, fully compliant with international standards for mobility impaired customers. Additional features in 1st class includes adjustable seating, in seat radio and music, reading lights and table lamps. They will lead the way in revolutionising the quality of service on Intercity and the rest of the network will not be far behind....see www.irishrail.ie/projects/pdf/page7and8.pdf

How could you ask for more? A dining car with reasonably priced fare would be too much to ask. Provision of space for parcels and bicycles and a proper level of crewing would seem to be pushing things a bit far! Lighting that is not offensively bright....I could go on but what is the point...you're lucky there are wheels on the damn things.:mad::mad:

HonalD

Judgement Day wrote: »

I could go on but what is the point...you're lucky there are wheels on the damn things.:mad::mad:

Do they really have wheels????/ You'd never have known

G_R

this is why i take the bus

Cuddlesworth

Judgement Day wrote: »

What are you complaining about? According to IE's own website the 22k railcars will be ' a streamlined design featuring curved front end and new livery', there will be audio and text display passenger information systems on-board, fully compliant with international standards for mobility impaired customers. Additional features in 1st class includes adjustable seating, in seat radio and music, reading lights and table lamps. They will lead the way in revolutionising the quality of service on Intercity and the rest of the network will not be far behind....see www.irishrail.ie/projects/pdf/page7and8.pdf

How could you ask for more? A dining car with reasonably priced fare would be too much to ask. Provision of space for parcels and bicycles and a proper level of crewing would seem to be pushing things a bit far! Lighting that is not offensively bright....I could go on but what is the point...you're lucky there are wheels on the damn things.:mad::mad:

It's nice up in first class though. Sadly still better on the economy Belfast carriages though.

Sean9015

Judgement Day wrote: »

What are you complaining about? According to IE's own website the 22k railcars will be ' a streamlined design featuring curved front end and new livery', there will be audio and text display passenger information systems on-board, fully compliant with international standards for mobility impaired customers. Additional features in 1st class includes adjustable seating, in seat radio and music, reading lights and table lamps. They will lead the way in revolutionising the quality of service on Intercity and the rest of the network will not be far behind....see www.irishrail.ie/projects/pdf/page7and8.pdf

QUOTE]

Read that again. Those features are on the Dublin - Cork trains. First class on the 22Ks is not different to standard.

Sean9015

paulm17781 wrote: »

Whoa there.

I was agreeing with, backing up your point. Apologies if it didn't come across that way.

Sorry Was a tad over sensitive - having a bad day!

Kashkai

The 17.50 hrs train to Galway is one of the old delapidated rolling stock that were probably in service before I was born (and I was a 60's baby). Public address system on these clunkers would consist of a carrier pidgeon I suppose.

Ok so some gimp pulled the emergency cord and stopped the train. Fair enough, but a small 10 second announcement to this effect wouldn't have gone astray. I had a wife and 4 kids freezing their butts off in Sallins waiting for this train to arrive. If I had any idea how long I was going to be, I could have told my wife to go home or at least go for a drive to pass the time.

Customer services is an oxymoron when applied to IR.

Judgement Day

Sean9015 wrote: »

Judgement Day wrote: »

What are you complaining about? According to IE's own website the 22k railcars will be ' a streamlined design featuring curved front end and new livery', there will be audio and text display passenger information systems on-board, fully compliant with international standards for mobility impaired customers. Additional features in 1st class includes adjustable seating, in seat radio and music, reading lights and table lamps. They will lead the way in revolutionising the quality of service on Intercity and the rest of the network will not be far behind....see www.irishrail.ie/projects/pdf/page7and8.pdf

QUOTE]

Read that again. Those features are on the Dublin - Cork trains. First class on the 22Ks is not different to standard.

I can only apologise for mixing the Mk4's with the 22ks - I was a little bit pissed after the Munster/Claremont match. I do have the 22k specifications in a Rail Brief somewhere and will post when I put my hand on them. My basic point still is that CIE/IE continue to live in some virtual reality land where the shape of the front of the train and its livery are more important than having a reasonably priced buffet service, tables, seats that match windows, comfy seating and gentle lighting etc. etc... sorry Guinness, Rugby and posting messages on Boards.ie don't mix well plus I was in an extremely bad mood after the disaster that was the match.

Ticktactoe

Hamndegger wrote: »

Something along the lines of...

"This train is delayed, we don't know how or why or for how long". Bound to appease a passenger

I can imagine LOL! It takes some time to figure out whats going on with the train if there is a break down. Again they figure out why it has stopped 20 - 30 mins have passed if not longer. The passengers know as much as the IR guys. Priority is to cover all safety issues and communicate to Dublin re the breakdown. It is extremly frustrating to the passenger indeed but there is protocol to follow.

This is just a bit of info so don't take the guns out! :eek:

paulm17781

Ticktactoe wrote: »

I can imagine LOL! It takes some time to figure out whats going on with the train if there is a break down. Again they figure out why it has stopped 20 - 30 mins have passed if not longer. The passengers know as much as the IR guys. Priority is to cover all safety issues and communicate to Dublin re the breakdown. It is extremly frustrating to the passenger indeed but there is protocol to follow.

Nonsense. It's not hard to say "We've hit a problem, we're investigating it now, we will update when we know more." They could then actually tell people what's going on when they do know. Likewise when the emergency break has been pulled, I'm sure a driver / controller knows about.

I honestly can't get over how people here try to condone IRs rubbish service.

Ticktactoe

paulm17781 wrote: »

I honestly can't get over how people here try to condone IRs rubbish service.

Im not condoning, Im been opened minded. Unless you step into their shoes you really dont have the right to call any theory nonsense.:cool:

paulm17781

Ticktactoe wrote: »

Im not condoning, Im been opened minded. Unless you step into their shoes you really dont have the right to call any theory nonsense.:cool:

Yes, yes I do. I am a customer of theirs, if I treated a customer like that, I'd lose a contract. They may not know exactly the problem or the time it will take to fix, I assume they can speak though and keep the passangers updated but they don't. I don't need to be in their shoes to understand how a customer service process works.

Ticktactoe

paulm17781 wrote: »

Yes, yes I do. I am a customer of theirs

I am a customer of theirs too but i am willing to be a little open minded and less condeming when it comes to their job as i also understand the customer service process as well as its difficulties.

ohnoigotsick

paulm17781 wrote: »

Yes, yes I do. I am a customer of theirs, if I treated a customer like that, I'd lose a contract. They may not know exactly the problem or the time it will take to fix, I assume they can speak though and keep the passangers updated but they don't. I don't need to be in their shoes to understand how a customer service process works.

so why do you still travel with them ?

Captain Chaos

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

The 17.50 hrs train to Galway is one of the old delapidated rolling stock that were probably in service before I was born (and I was a 60's baby). Public address system on these clunkers would consist of a carrier pidgeon I suppose.

The Mk3 were made in the made in the mid 80s and have better ride quality than the Mk4 and 22ks, don't know what train you were on becasue there is nothing older than that doing the rounds anymore. Sure you weren't on the Santa special by any chance.

Owenw

Captain Chaos wrote: »

The Mk3 were made in the made in the mid 80s and have better ride quality than the Mk4 and 22ks...

Why do the new 22,000 railcars have such poor ride quality & hard seats can anyone tell me?
Even the old Arrows on the Newbridge run, which must be about 20 years old, have better seats (barely)!

L1011

The IE 2600 class are, surprisingly, only 15 years old...

goingnowhere

Regular passenger on the Kildare route and the trains are actually less than 5 years old

Judgement Day

I'm back!

I found the Feb.2008 of Rail Brief and while not so gushing in its description of the 22k railcars states the following.
Features of the Intercity railcar fleet will include:

Automatic PA and information display systems.
Electronic seat reservation displays for web bookings.
Fully air conditioned.
Internal CCTV system for improved security.
Sleek carriage design.
Advance safety features throughout.

Later on in the article Dick Fearn, CEO of Irish Rail says 'every single rail customer with Iarnrod Eireann will be able to travel on modern, quality trains, designed with the latest customer needs in mind.' One wonders what customer research IE carried out? I can just imagine your average rail passenger telling the researcher that what he yearns for is a sleek carriage design or God help us - electronic seat reservation displays! Any chance of a Hang sandwich??

The article concludes 'Frequency improvements will be delivered across all routes, when all trains are in service by the end of 2008'. Ho, ho, ho....

Dick you're for the birds.

paulm17781

ohnoigotsick wrote: »

so why do you still travel with them ?

I haven't in two years.

I am a customer of theirs too but i am willing to be a little open minded and less condeming when it comes to their job as i also understand the customer service process as well as its difficulties.

You may be willing to take shoddy service from semi-state agencies but I am not. This is nothing to do with being open minded, it is about a simple announcement that makes the world of difference to a customer and is no effort for the staff.

thebman

ohnoigotsick wrote: »

so why do you still travel with them ?

I don't know of an alternative train service in Ireland to Irish Rail, do you?

ohnoigotsick

brim4brim wrote: »

I don't know of an alternative train service in Ireland to Irish Rail, do you?

no but i know of alternative travel.

anyway the person doesn't use them anymore, if others did the same maybe IE would take note and look into why passenger numbers are down.

Ticktactoe

paulm17781 wrote: »

I haven't in two years.



You may be willing to take shoddy service from semi-state agencies but I am not.

I am greatful for the service I receive from them. I have travelled by many means and have to say, taking the train is the best means of all. So if there are problems with the service every now and again Im not going to complain. I have experienced the delays etc but what service is perfect? Looking at it, I get to where i want to go more times than not and do so in a comfortable manner.

thebman

ohnoigotsick wrote: »

no but i know of alternative travel.

anyway the person doesn't use them anymore, if others did the same maybe IE would take note and look into why passenger numbers are down.

So you mean Bus for most people as the only viable alternative means of public transport.

I think I'd rather the buses sort out their problems than the train network.

Oh and passenger numbers are down for train travel by 1% if I remember correctly and I think you'll find IE couldn't give a sh**. They just up the fairs and increase parking charges to cover the difference.

Overall I don't have a problem with them most of the time. Anytime I get a train it is on time or arrives at most 5 minutes late except for signal failures that were occurring a while ago that have stopped since so I'm guessing they fixed it.

My only real problem is the price (no competition/funding) and the frequency of the service (no competition/funding).

I think my problem lies more with the government than IE who seem to be doing a good enough job with the resources they have.

Ticktactoe

brim4brim wrote: »

My only real problem is the price (no competition/funding) and the frequency of the service (no competition/funding).

I think my problem lies more with the government than IE who seem to be doing a good enough job with the resources they have.

I agree with you here. The frequency of the service is a problem on certain routes and this problem lies with funding.:cool:

markpb

Ticktactoe wrote: »

I can imagine LOL! It takes some time to figure out whats going on with the train if there is a break down. Again they figure out why it has stopped 20 - 30 mins have passed if not longer. The passengers know as much as the IR guys. Priority is to cover all safety issues and communicate to Dublin re the breakdown. It is extremly frustrating to the passenger indeed but there is protocol to follow.

Transport for London protocol says that an announcement must be made within 30 seconds of an unscheduled stop. No, they don't manage it all the time but they do try. What makes them so different to Irish Rail? They give a crap.

Passengers don't care that the right falange has fallen off. All they want is an update, an apology and not to be ignored. If you leave someone sitting on a train for half an hour, they'll feel like a mushroom (kept in the dark with crap being shovelled on them from above) and the next time they'll take the car. If you apologise and tell them you'll have more information soon, they'll appreciate that problems happen and they won't mind.

Making an announcement takes 10-15 seconds. If there is more than one member of staff on the train, those 15 seconds aren't going to affect anything.

Kashkai

Ticktactoe wrote: »

I am greatful for the service I receive from them. I have travelled by many means and have to say, taking the train is the best means of all. So if there are problems with the service every now and again Im not going to complain. I have experienced the delays etc but what service is perfect? Looking at it, I get to where i want to go more times than not and do so in a comfortable manner.

I'm sorry but "comfortable manner"????? Being forced to pay €36 a week for a ticket plus €8 car parking for the privilege of standing on a freezing platform for trains that are never on time and then standing, sardine style, all the way into Heuston, to then get the occassional 'Schindler's List' style of document checking (you know, corral them into lines with the black uniformed heavies standing by) is not my idea of comfort. What train do you get as I'm feeling all left out on this 'comfortable manner' of train travel :rolleyes: