Deaf News rte

ronbyrne2005 · 04-12-2008 6:31pm #1

Just watching this earlier. Not only is there a woman reading news and what she is saying is scrolling up the screen, but they have some auld fella signing the news. Now why would a deaf person need scrolling news and also the guy signing stuff? Does the guy not feel like a bit useless? Does he go out to rte every day for five minutes of hand gymnastics? Should we be paying licence fee for superfluous services in times of recession?

Overheal · 04-12-2008 6:32pm

WHAT?

yoyo · 04-12-2008 6:32pm

What use would a guy singing be for deaf people

Nick

pierrot · 04-12-2008 6:33pm

What???

ronbyrne2005 · 04-12-2008 6:38pm

http://www.britishsignlanguage.com/words/index.php?id=34
http://www.britishsignlanguage.com/words/index.php?id=244

^^^ How do I embed the above images?
:pac:

passive · 04-12-2008 6:41pm

ronbyrne2005 wrote: »

http://www.britishsignlanguage.com/words/index.php?id=34
http://www.britishsignlanguage.com/words/index.php?id=244

^^^ How do I embed the above images?
:pac:

haha.. well done, douze points!

themadchef · 04-12-2008 6:55pm

When i was a kid i used to think that there was a huge roller thingy in front of the news reader and wondered....

A: If it was hamster powered (hundreads of the feckers)
B: How the fcuk the guy adding the paper knew how to make the feckers stop every now and then, or go faster depending on how fast the news reader was going

lilminx · 04-12-2008 7:09pm

ronbyrne2005 wrote: »

Just watching this earlier. Not only is there a woman reading news and what she is saying is scrolling up the screen, but they have some auld fella signing the news. Now why would a deaf person need scrolling news and also the guy signing stuff? Does the guy not feel like a bit useless? Does he go out to rte every day for five minutes of hand gymnastics? Should we be paying licence fee for superfluous services in times of recession?

I grrrr'd. I went for a cup of tea.. and I grrr'd some more. I wrote a response. Thought about it... and grrr'd again.. deleted it and then decided I had to say something.

I'm not going to go into the obvious discrimination portrayed in your above post. The first thing to go in times of recession is 'superfluos' services... like PA services for people with disabilities, transport services, day services... the list is endless. The majority of organisations supplying services to people with disabilities are reliant on government funding to support their work but I could write a thesis on this..

The person signing the news provides a much valued and under-resourced service to sign language users in Ireland. The only programming on Irish television fully accessible for Deaf people is news for the Deaf and Hands On.

Sub titles are there to compliment the first choice language for the Deaf Community. It also allows people who have a hearing loss access a small percentage of the news available in this format. Only a tiny percentage of programming in Ireland has accessible sub-titles for people who are Deaf or hard of hearing.

shellyboo · 04-12-2008 7:11pm

ronbyrne2005 wrote: »

Just watching this earlier. Not only is there a woman reading news and what she is saying is scrolling up the screen, but they have some auld fella signing the news. Now why would a deaf person need scrolling news and also the guy signing stuff? Does the guy not feel like a bit useless? Does he go out to rte every day for five minutes of hand gymnastics? Should we be paying licence fee for superfluous services in times of recession?

They need the scrolling news because not all deaf people use sign language, and they need the signing guy because not all deaf people... can read? I dunno. How would you like it if they just made us read the news ourselves instead of reading it to us? The whole point of watching the news is so you don't have to expend precious energy turning pages in a newspaper or getting newsprint on your fingers.

EDIT: I just thought of something!! Deaf people who are also dyslexic. They wouldn't be able to just use the scrolling news, same as a hearing person. Yay, reason!

04-12-2008 7:13pm

ronbyrne2005 wrote: »

Just watching this earlier. Not only is there a woman reading news and what she is saying is scrolling up the screen, but they have some auld fella signing the news. Now why would a deaf person need scrolling news and also the guy signing stuff? Does the guy not feel like a bit useless? Does he go out to rte every day for five minutes of hand gymnastics? Should we be paying licence fee for superfluous services in times of recession?

*ahem*

lolwut?

LadyJ · 04-12-2008 7:14pm

I'd imagine that maybe people, like the elderly perhaps, who have just recently started to lose their hearing would benefit more from subtitles as they may not necessarily know sign language whereas people who do know it would find it handier and probably quicker to keep up with the guy.

In short, both are a good idea.

ShooterSF · 04-12-2008 7:15pm

shellyboo wrote: »

EDIT: I just thought of something!! Deaf people who are also dyslexic. They wouldn't be able to just use the scrolling news, same as a hearing person. Yay, reason!

Dyslexics can read!

DarkJager · 04-12-2008 7:19pm

lilminx wrote: »

I grrrr'd. I went for a cup of tea.. and I grrr'd some more. I wrote a response. Thought about it... and grrr'd again.. deleted it and then decided I had to say something.

I'm not going to go into the obvious discrimination portrayed in your above post. The first thing to go in times of recession is 'superfluos' services... like PA services for people with disabilities, transport services, day services... the list is endless. The majority of organisations supplying services to people with disabilities are reliant on government funding to support their work but I could write a thesis on this..

The person signing the news provides a much valued and under-resourced service to sign language users in Ireland. The only programming on Irish television fully accessible for Deaf people is news for the Deaf and Hands On.

Sub titles are there to compliment the first choice language for the Deaf Community. It also allows people who have a hearing loss access a small percentage of the news available in this format. Only a tiny percentage of programming in Ireland has accessible sub-titles for people who are Deaf or hard of hearing.

Why is there a program for the deaf called Hands On???? I thought it affected the ears??

lilminx · 04-12-2008 7:25pm

DarkJager wrote: »

Why is there a program for the deaf called Hands On???? I thought it affected the ears??

Hands On is the magazine programme for the Deaf and Hard of Hearing communities in Ireland. The programme airs every Sunday on RTE One at 10.40am. The programme is produced by a mixed Deaf and hearing team. *from www.rte.ie/tv/handson/about.html*

I would imagine the name comes from a play with the fact that sign language is based on hand shapes, movement and placement of the hands.

zero19 · 04-12-2008 7:34pm

Ugh some people...

DarkJager · 04-12-2008 7:38pm

lilminx wrote: »

Hands On is the magazine programme for the Deaf and Hard of Hearing communities in Ireland. The programme airs every Sunday on RTE One at 10.40am. The programme is produced by a mixed Deaf and hearing team. *from www.rte.ie/tv/handson/about.html*

I would imagine the name comes from a play with the fact that sign language is based on hand shapes, movement and placement of the hands.

I'd say the name is like a dig at those benefit spongers who are faking disablities while off work. You know, Hands on, as if they're saying "yeah we can see you you ****ing benefit sponge, out there doing your gardening....eyes everywhere buddy, hands on"

Earthhorse · 04-12-2008 7:44pm

LadyJ wrote: »

I'd imagine that maybe people, like the elderly perhaps, who have just recently started to lose their hearing would benefit more from subtitles as they may not necessarily know sign language whereas people who do know it would find it handier and probably quicker to keep up with the guy.

In short, both are a good idea.

Well observed.

Not sure if I'm also right in saying that more information is conveyed via the sign language; that is, the sub-titles don't always map word for word to what the newscaster is saying.

Can anyone confirm if that's true?

LadyJ · 04-12-2008 7:48pm

AFAIK sign language is far more direct than subtitles. A friend of mine works with deaf people and would have a lot of deaf friends. She says when she gets texts from her friends who were born deaf, the text lacks a lot of grammatical nicities. It's more like "I go shop" etc.

shellyboo · 04-12-2008 7:49pm

ShooterSF wrote: »

Dyslexics can read!

Some dyslexics have trouble with reading, or writing, or both.

Earthhorse wrote: »

Well observed.

Not sure if I'm also right in saying that more information is conveyed via the sign language; that is, the sub-titles don't always map word for word to what the newscaster is saying.

Can anyone confirm if that's true?

Yep. It's conveying the same as what the newsreader is saying, whereas the text is edited pretty heavily from the actual script. It's a complete language - it's the same as them translating to Irish for the Nuacht, really.

Earthhorse · 04-12-2008 7:50pm

LadyJ wrote: »

AFAIK sign language is far more direct than subtitles. A friend of mine works with deaf people and would have a lot of deaf friends. She says when she gets texts from her friends who were born deaf, the text lacks a lot of grammatical nicities. It's more like "I go shop" etc.

Maybe they should text the news to the deaf so.

Roy Keane leave Sunderland. Angry. Bearded.

shellyboo · 04-12-2008 7:53pm

LadyJ wrote: »

AFAIK sign language is far more direct than subtitles. A friend of mine works with deaf people and would have a lot of deaf friends. She says when she gets texts from her friends who were born deaf, the text lacks a lot of grammatical nicities. It's more like "I go shop" etc.

Yes, but they probably sign fluently... sign is a different language to English. It's not based on English, the same way as French or Spanish isn't just English translated. So Sign is their first language, English their second. It's confusing!

LadyJ · 04-12-2008 7:55pm

shellyboo wrote: »

Yes, but they probably sign fluently... sign is a different language to English. It's not based on English, the same way as French or Spanish isn't just English translated. So Sign is their first language, English their second. It's confusing!

No, I get that which is why I'm saying that both subtitles and sign are important and different from each other.

lilminx · 04-12-2008 7:57pm

shellyboo wrote: »

Some dyslexics have trouble with reading, or writing, or both.

Yep. It's conveying the same as what the newsreader is saying, whereas the text is edited pretty heavily from the actual script. It's a complete language - it's the same as them translating to Irish for the Nuacht, really.

Sign Language - and I'm by no means an expert so feel free to correct me is vastly different from english.

For example in english you would say 'there are red flowers in a vase on the table'

In sign you would have to portray a table, and on the table a vase and in the vase flowers and the flowers are red.

The 'go shop' analogy is a good example. There are no tenses in ISL so going/went are obselete.

Fascinating language.

shellyboo · 04-12-2008 7:57pm

LadyJ wrote: »

No, I get that which is why I'm saying that both subtitles and sign are important and different from each other.

Oh! I thought you meant that they were the same and deaf people just couldn't communciate :pac::D:P

My bad.

Curvy Vixen · 04-12-2008 8:17pm

lilminx wrote: »

Sign Language - and I'm by no means an expert so feel free to correct me is vastly different from english.

For example in english you would say 'there are red flowers in a vase on the table'

In sign you would have to portray a table, and on the table a vase and in the vase flowers and the flowers are red.

The 'go shop' analogy is a good example. There are no tenses in ISL so going/went are obselete.

Fascinating language.

That's kind of true.

But you can actually sign 'there are red flowers in a vase on the table' but for ease and speed deaf people tend not to.

There are also tenses for sign language. For instance 'went' is signed as 'go' but then you move your hand like a backwards wave over your shoulder (hard to explain in writing) to show it was in the past tense i.e. went.

I'm hearing but up to 4th year in Irish Sign Language..I have deaf (extended) family and in fact know 2 of the people who sign on the RTE News...

LadyJ · 04-12-2008 8:19pm

Curvy Vixen wrote: »

and in fact know 2 of the people who sign on the RTE News...

Are they actually deaf? Just curious.

I often wonder do many deaf people post on boards.

Curvy Vixen · 04-12-2008 8:26pm

LadyJ wrote: »

Are they actually deaf? Just curious.

I often wonder do many deaf people post on boards.

Yes the two I know are profoundly deaf....and I am happy to be corrected but I believe they all are. But I have to say that one of them lip reads to a very scary level! You really have to watch what's said around her! Actually she signed at my wedding as I had deaf guests...and she did it by just reading the priests lips through the service!

mixer101 · 04-12-2008 9:16pm

ronbyrne2005 wrote: »

Should we be paying licence fee for superfluous services in times of recession?

Maybe you should thank your God that this is superfluous to your needs.
But please spare a thought for those among us that rely on the man signing the news as a vital form of communication. Not every deaf person can lip read.

Why should this guy feel useless...?
Would you feel useless if you helped a blind person across the road?
Would you feel useless if you assisted a disabled person by pushing their wheelchair?
The chap signing is providing a service, he's assisting someone.
OK, it's not you.
But someone, somewhere else, may be thankful for the service he provides and is glad that they, and you, are paying their licence fees so RTE can afford to provide this three-minute intrusion to your viewing.
Even in these recessionary times.

useful_contacts · 04-12-2008 9:16pm

ronbyrne2005 wrote: »

http://www.britishsignlanguage.com/words/index.php?id=34
http://www.britishsignlanguage.com/words/index.php?id=244

^^^ How do I embed the above images?
:pac:

POST OF THE YEAR!!!!!:D

PeakOutput · 04-12-2008 9:20pm

its either important enough to be in the 'proper' news or it shouldnt be on at all

it cant be cheaper run an extra programme than it is to add subtitles and possibly a signer to the existing news

04-12-2008 9:34pm

Just my thoughts, sorry if they're boring or repeated!!

Sign Language for "Deaf" people who couldn't be arsed reading
Scrolling News for Old people who are hard of hearing but wouldn't know sign language

Agamemnon · 04-12-2008 9:50pm

If anyone in RTE is reading this, I volunteer to do sign language for the Late Late Show. I'll just stand beside Plank and make "wanker" gestures for the whole show.

lilminx · 04-12-2008 10:03pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Just my thoughts, sorry if they're boring or repeated!!

Sign Language for "Deaf" people who couldn't be arsed reading
Scrolling News for Old people who are hard of hearing but wouldn't know sign language

who couldn't be arsed?!

are you for real?

lilminx · 04-12-2008 10:05pm

PeakOutput wrote: »

it cant be cheaper run an extra programme than it is to add subtitles and possibly a signer to the existing news

That's a very good point Peakoutput. Why is not ALL programming made accessible to ISL users?

04-12-2008 10:10pm

lilminx wrote: »

who couldn't be arsed?!

are you for real?

yep - totally for real, I wouldn't be arsed reading subtitles if they were speaking in my language, and sign language is the language for deaf people.

PeakOutput · 04-12-2008 10:12pm

lilminx wrote: »

That's a very good point Peakoutput. Why is not ALL programming made accessible to ISL users?

ye but im just gonna piss you off by saying that they shouldnt be picky over weather its subtitles or sign language the cheapest opion should win unless its a profit making programme

littlebug · 04-12-2008 10:23pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Just my thoughts, sorry if they're boring or repeated!!

Sign Language for "Deaf" people who couldn't be arsed reading
Scrolling News for Old people who are hard of hearing but wouldn't know sign language

No no no! Sign language for some deaf people for whom sign language is their primary/ only language and therefore are not fully fluent in written English. It's got nothing to do with not being arsed or being dyslexic. It's a different language.
Scrolling news for anyone who has hearing difficulties but do not use sign language.

04-12-2008 10:32pm

littlebug wrote: »

No no no! Sign language for some deaf people for whom sign language is their primary/ only language and therefore are not fully fluent in written English. It's got nothing to do with not being arsed or being dyslexic. It's a different language.
Scrolling news for anyone who has hearing difficulties but do not use sign language.

I was going to say what you said but did not want to assume that any deaf people could not read as I don't know this to be true, the basis of my answer was correct though!!!

anway, I'm sure that Deaf people who use sign language would not be arsed reading the subtitles

lilminx · 04-12-2008 10:36pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I was going to say what you said but did not want to assume that any deaf people could not read as I don't know this to be true, the basis of my answer was correct though!!!

anway, I'm sure that Deaf people who use sign language would not be arsed reading the subtitles

Okay Daisy.. I misread your original reply. the 'couldn't be arsed' came across to me as blaming Deaf in some way...

apologies

04-12-2008 10:39pm

lilminx wrote: »

Okay Daisy.. I misread your original reply. the 'couldn't be arsed' came across to me as blaming Deaf in some way...

apologies

oh god no!!! I just didn't know how to phrase it without offending, clearly I failed anway

lilminx · 04-12-2008 10:42pm

Deleted User wrote: »

oh god no!!! I just didn't know how to phrase it without offending, clearly I failed anway

Just a misunderstanding daisy... clarified... don't worry about it..

t'was an error of my own making..

this thread got me a little antsy.. :eek:

littlebug · 04-12-2008 10:46pm

whoops your "couldn't be arsed" comment makes it sound like you think they're just being lazy whether that's how you mean it or not.

littlebug · 04-12-2008 10:55pm

Here's a link for anyone who's interested in why literacy can be a problem for deaf people.

http://www.literacytrust.org.uk/pubs/stern.htm

"Many people are surprised at the idea that deaf children could have such problems in learning to read, and this is because they- underestimate the crucial role of language sound, i.e. phonological awareness, in learning to read. Familiarity with nursery rhymes enhances children's sensitivity to component sounds in language, which leads to better progress in reading and spelling"

I know, I know this is AH and I've gone all serious. I'll leave quietly....

04-12-2008 11:01pm

littlebug wrote: »

whoops your "couldn't be arsed" comment makes it sound like you think they're just being lazy whether that's how you mean it or not.

definitely not how I meant it, I meant for the deaf people who could read sign language and "couldn't be arsed" reading subtitles, as I've already explained, I meant if I was watching an english speaking programme and there were subtitles for the deaf, I wouldn't bother reading them because they are speaking my language anyway, the same applies to deaf people watching a show with subtitles and sign language, assuming they understand the sign language, why would they read the subtitles? This does not make me lazy either, it makes me logical.

Take it whatever way you like, I've explained myself now on a number of occasions littlebug but you choose to ignore my explanations, that is your problem, not mine.

EamonnKeane · 04-12-2008 11:05pm

PeakOutput wrote: »

its either important enough to be in the 'proper' news or it shouldnt be on at all

it cant be cheaper run an extra programme than it is to add subtitles and possibly a signer to the existing news

Each "news for the deaf" would probably buy an extra 3 minutes of Pat Kenny, or 30 seconds of Killinaskully. It's hardly a significant expense. Btw, the News has subtitles already.

04-12-2008 11:10pm

EamonnKeane wrote: »

Each "news for the deaf" would probably buy an extra 3 minutes of Pat Kenny, or 30 seconds of Killinaskully. It's hardly a significant expense. Btw, the News has subtitles already.

yeh but because it's live it's typed as they are speaking - I think - making it really annoying to read. Whereas on the News for the Deaf, it's in exact time with the Autocue

ejmaztec · 04-12-2008 11:27pm

They would save an awful lot of money if they just had it on the radio.

PeakOutput · 04-12-2008 11:30pm

EamonnKeane wrote: »

Each "news for the deaf" would probably buy an extra 3 minutes of Pat Kenny, or 30 seconds of Killinaskully. It's hardly a significant expense. Btw, the News has subtitles already.

ye thats a good point there is alot of things that should be higher on the list for the axe i take it back

MizzLolly · 04-12-2008 11:30pm

I think the more support offered to the deaf, the better. Just imagine how it is for them. I love seeing signed pogrammes/news etc.. It's hardly costing RTE that much, get real. :rolleyes:

Curvy Vixen · 05-12-2008 8:16am

Deleted User wrote: »

yep - totally for real, I wouldn't be arsed reading subtitles if they were speaking in my language, and sign language is the language for deaf people.

Sign language is the language for some deaf people. English is the language for some hearing people. French is the language for some hearing people.

The whole 3 minutes spent on this in the news manages to cover all aspects of hearing loss...fully hearing/partially hearing/profoundly deaf.

On the back of the original post, why do they waste taxpayers money paying for ramps when people in wheelchairs can just bump their wheels up and down steps :rolleyes:

_blank_ · 05-12-2008 9:20am

What about on the music channels late at night, they have people doing sign language along to the songs, and sometimes even dancing.

wtf?

Deaf News rte

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