[Article] Canal cyclepath

Gavin

Sounds interesting.

irishtimes.com wrote:

WORK HAS begun on the construction of a footpath and cycleway on the Grand Canal to provide a pedestrian and bicycle link between Adamstown, near Lucan, in west Dublin and the city centre.

Dublin City Council says the green route will be equipped with CCTV, fishing stands, street furniture and special facilities for wildlife. The works along an 8.5km (5¼ miles) stretch of the canal between Inchicore and Grangecastle will take 15 months to complete, at a cost of €8 million, during which the present towpath will be closed to the public.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1203/1228234992828.html

Could be a nice cycle !

John_C

It's a nice cycle as it is. This could be a big improvement if it's done well.

Turbulent Bill

The article said that the path will be finished in stone, though, so I presume the surface will be a bit rough - not great if you want to use it as a commuting route.

Chris Peak

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

The article said that the path will be finished in stone, though, so I presume the surface will be a bit rough - not great if you want to use it as a commuting route.

"...the route will be finished with a stone path. The projects will include measures to improve disabled access, including wheelchair-accessible fishing stands"
It won't be that rough if it's going to be wheel-chair accessible.

Lumen

Chris Peak wrote: »

It won't be that rough if it's going to be wheel-chair accessible.

Chris Peak

Lumen wrote: »

Ok I stand corrected. He's obviously seen the plans!:D

Turbulent Bill

Chris Peak wrote: »

"...the route will be finished with a stone path. The projects will include measures to improve disabled access, including wheelchair-accessible fishing stands"
It won't be that rough if it's going to be wheel-chair accessible.

Maybe it's only wheelchair accessible from the water . Point taken, the surface should be decent, though if I can use Lumen's battlefield model then it won't matter either way.

311

It sounds like a godsend ,I hope they go under the bridges and the track is not broken at each one

Sean02

This is indeed good news. The timescale and cost of course is completly is o.t.t. but then I imagine the power supply accounts for this. The needs of cyclist commuters, walkers, anglers would be amply meet by levelling and surfacing the towpaths as Fingal Co Co. or Waterways did some years ago between Clonsila and Porterstown bridges (now becoming overgrown due to zero maintenance). my guess is that the cost was about €50,000 so even now Leixlip to Ashtown improvements could be achieved for €1 -€2 million.
With a level compacted gravel surface the comuting time by bike from Leixlip to Dorset St. would be about 60 minutes. "Congratulations"again to the planners who though up the Adamstown plan. Why did you not do it in tandem with the housing devepopment in Adamstown and Clondalkin!!!

mmclo

Sean02 wrote: »

This is indeed good news. The timescale and cost of course is completly is o.t.t. but then I imagine the power supply accounts for this. The needs of cyclist commuters, walkers, anglers would be amply meet by levelling and surfacing the towpaths as Fingal Co Co. or Waterways did some years ago between Clonsila and Porterstown bridges (now becoming overgrown due to zero maintenance). my guess is that the cost was about €50,000 so even now Leixlip to Ashtown improvements could be achieved for €1 -€2 million.
With a level compacted gravel surface the comuting time by bike from Leixlip to Dorset St. would be about 60 minutes. "Congratulations"again to the planners who though up the Adamstown plan. Why did you not do it in tandem with the housing devepopment in Adamstown and Clondalkin!!!

But Castleknok/M50 to Ashtown is in bits, slightest bit of rain and it's almost impassable, a shame given the rest is v. good (well castleknock to porterstown is a bit "rooty"). The C'nock to Ashtown section would probably be v. cheap

Sean02

The towpath between Porterstown and Ashtown is indeed a disgrace. I have ask waterways on more than one occasion to warn cyclist of the highly dangereous sections at the deep cuttings.

mmclo

Interestingly they were giving out grants and sponsorship recently for waterway related activity. Wonder if cycling improvements would qualify

http://www.waterwaysireland.org/uploads/docs/WaterwaysIrelandSponsorshipGuidelines2009.doc

mikemac

I'm not going to knock this scheme.
But am I the only one wondering how it's costing 8 million euro to cover only 8.5km?

Seems expensive to me anyway
And that's relevent if why want to see future schemes like Sutton to Sandycove which seemed a great idea but seems to sunk without a trace

petethedrummer

they're probably gonna over do it with expensive paving, miscellaneous features and so forth, when a nice layer of tarmac would do the job.

Sean02

Of course 8 million is expensive but who care now ???. It's all a paper exercise. to divert from the reality. Do you think for one minute that Cowan would conceed this type of money to Dubs at the present time. I wonder is this another Green / Gormley PR diversionary tactic but then in can't be, its not a Dublin 4 project.

petethedrummer

Sean02 wrote: »

Of course 8 million is expensive but who care now ???. It's all a paper exercise. to divert from the reality.

If you had said this about the pathetic broken-line cycle lanes or the ones that are just added on to footpaths, I'd agree with you. But this seems a common sense idea, whatever about the cost.

Sean02 wrote: »

Do you think for one minute that Cowan would conceed this type of money to Dubs at the present time.

I don't think there is any anti-dublin or anti-anywhere bias with regards transport decisions in Ireland. It's generally anti-common sense.

Sean02 wrote: »

I wonder is this another Green / Gormley PR diversionary tactic but then in can't be, its not a Dublin 4 project.

What do you mean by diversionary tactic? A cycling facility is being put in place and its a diversionary tactic by the Green Party?

dogmatix

This would be a good idea if it goes ahead. I generally use the grand canal as a cycle route for commuting from ParkWest to the city centre - I follow the canal as far as dolphin road then along the old guinness canal spur (now the luas line) into town. It's a great cycle, espcially in the spring/summer when the swans are out and about with their cygnets. It's even fun dodging the travellers horses tied up along the tow path from Parkwest to Tyrconnell.

But it is not a route I feel safe on after dark - cctv and lighting would be a welcome addition.

tampopo

Sean02, isn't Ashtown on the Royal Canal?
And as for the expense. Well, doing it twice would allow for that. The Davitt rd bit seems to have had a fresh layer of 50mm tarmac, already ripped up, and the amount of paving stones that ended up in the water...plus the pallets they come on...it all adds up.

Are they going to make Sally's Bridge, Dolphins Barn Bridge and Herberton Bridge as wheel chair accessible as Harold's Cross bridge?

I look forward to it indeed...should be good.

mmclo

well the Royal Canal is more of a compare and contrast. Canal paths are obvious commuting routes being generally clear and relatively flat

Indeed has given rise to a handy book I recently got on Amazon

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Towpath-Tours-Cycling-Irelands-Waterways/dp/1903464757

although looks like I got the last one!

petethedrummer

petethedrummer wrote: »

they're probably gonna over do it with expensive paving, miscellaneous features and so forth, when a nice layer of tarmac would do the job.

Amazing how wrong my prediction was. They went for the simple option. Its very close to completion. A few more weeks and I'd say it will be done, though 'a friend' has been on it already through a hole in the fence.

I hope they extend it further out into the country and eventually the whole length of the canal. If there was a nice long section with no interruptions, it would be an ideal place to hold time trials. Looks like it will be lit too. I got some pictures of it but I brought the wrong memory card to work.

IM0

petethedrummer wrote: »

If there was a nice long section with no interruptions, it would be an ideal place to hold time trials. Looks like it will be lit too..

:rolleyes: yeah an €8m purpose built time trial course, no wonder this countries cycling infrastructure sucks!

Brian Dobson in a future RTE News:

"The new proposed purpose built national cycleway was this evening defeated when it was reported that the locals were elated that they had a new place to hold TT events...."

hooligans!

Sean02

That good news about the progress. Must check next week and see if theres a completion date. Then why don't we hold a bike protest outside minister gormleys office to get at least the highly dangereous Porterstown to Castleknock section on the Royal widened and leveled, before me or another cyclist is drowned.

petethedrummer

@me@uscd:
Of course you're twisting my words. I think the cycle path should be continued the entire length of the canal (time trialling possibilities or not). One positive side effect a nice long wide cycle track would be a place to hold time trials. Remember the hassle over organising the boards 40km!!

As for the cost of this installation, I wouldn't defend it. but I don't know enough about road installation to judge if €8m is excessive or not. I would also guess that there will be very little in maintenance and patching up necessary on a cycle lane that heavy traffic can't use.

Sean02

Pete Time trialing is never going to happen. Personnaly I feel its not the place. but the reality is that most of the canal buffs are against cyclist particuarly the fishing community. I think there may be a anti bike bye law to be scrapped. It will be interesting to see if a designated cycle lane is marked out on grand canal project.

petethedrummer

I'm sorry I mentioned time trialling now. I don't even have much interest in it myself. So forget that. It still think it should be extended.

I used to take the path between Inchicore and Clondalkin up until the upgrade started and I only saw one fisherman regularly and he used to cycle there. What is their particular problem with more people using it? The chance a fisherman could take an eye out? Fishermen use the canal on the road from Omeath to Newry and the fishing stations/points are right next to the busy road. So what's wrong with a few cyclists going passed?

It seems like a drastically underused resource to me, but I'm not up on canal matters so maybe I'm missing something.

JacksonHeightsOwn

a fair bit of this is already completed if im not mistaken, if you cross over the canal at kylemore road, down by the back of bluebell, and up going on towards Clondalkin is completed, and looking pretty smart, its tarmac,painted yellow and all, looks really good

they`re definetly going OVER the bridge though, so you`ll have to cross traffic, the junctions havent been completed as of yet, but there is a fair stretch, just blocked off by hoarding

Sean02

100% correct Pete. If for noting else than the cycling tourism potential. I've encountered a number of tourist on the Royal either punctured or dissapointed that it was impossible on road bikes. I sent them over to Lucan to try the Grand which is much more cycle friendly. Talk to Waterways Ireland about cycle paths you might as well talk to Brian Cowan or John Gormley for all the response you'll get.

mmclo

chrisbonnie wrote: »

they`re definetly going OVER the bridge though, so you`ll have to cross traffic

Good grief! One of the main purposes of using towpaths! Are there acually underpasses? I know on the Royal some don't hav them but most do particularly further out.

Sean02

Yes seems to be a stupid design having to leave the towpath to negotiate bridge. Lots of towpaths don't have towpaths beneath them for whatever reason. May be something to do with the lifting locks. Then again it's only recently that designers realised that cycle lanes on paths immediatly paralell to the roadway are a disaster because of debis trown from tyres of trucks and cars.

Victor

The city center section is currently going to public consultation.

Sean02

Victor please explain more. Canal or cycle paths?

Victor

Sorry, there is a public consultation on the Rathmines to East Wall Road section.

It is on display in the Civic Offices and Rathmines Library.

JacksonHeightsOwn

mmclo wrote: »

Good grief! One of the main purposes of using towpaths! Are there acually underpasses? I know on the Royal some don't hav them but most do particularly further out.

i know, but what`ll ya do

i actually cycled a section on saturday, very smart, all along the nangor road is completed, but not open to the public, i saw a break in the fences, so a friend and I explored, very nice cycle lane, nearly too nice, lovely and flat, wide, just brilliant!

unfortunetly it ends at the ninth lock, where Cemex is at the killeen road,

petethedrummer

As far as I know its going out as far as point A on this map.
It will really suit me for my commute.

Doctor Bob

petethedrummer wrote: »

As far as I know its going out as far as point A on this map.
It will really suit me for my commute.

That's it. And I understand that there are plans underway currently to put in a bridge over the canal so it can join to the SDZ development at Adamstown. (The lack of a connection over the canal was a concern- glad it's being addressed. Let's hope Waterways Ireland play ball.)

Edit: Yep- here's a link to the SDCC public notice (Part 8 application): http://www.sdublincoco.ie/index.aspx?pageid=939&pid=16970

Closing date for comments is 23.11.09.

petethedrummer

Doctor Bob wrote: »

Let's hope Waterways Ireland play ball.

There have been a number of suggestions that Waterways are against this upgrade. Does anyone know why? Or what they are against? Or are they against it at all??

On their website it says;

Or you can take your bicycle along the towpaths and quiet country roads

So i'm rather confused. Can someone please explain it to me?

mockler007

311 wrote: »

It sounds like a godsend ,I hope they go under the bridges and the track is not broken at each one

from what ive seen it looks like they wont, waste of 8 million, making it look even more man-made, typical irish its a tow path who needs fancy stones, they should spend it on the canal itself and start getting boats back on it, shoddy shoddy shoddy. cant wait for it to open as its holding up my charity cycle

Victor

petethedrummer wrote: »

There have been a number of suggestions that Waterways are against this upgrade. Does anyone know why? Or what they are against? Or are they against it at all??

There were concerns about "hooligan" cyclists disturbing the wildlife, but there seems to have been a change of attitude.

petethedrummer

Victor wrote: »

There were concerns about "hooligan" cyclists disturbing the wildlife, but there seems to have been a change of attitude.

You wouldn't want to go disturbing the rats.

Doctor Bob

petethedrummer wrote: »

There have been a number of suggestions that Waterways are against this upgrade. Does anyone know why? Or what they are against? Or are they against it at all??

On their website it says;

So i'm rather confused. Can someone please explain it to me?

I think the attitude of Waterways Ireland to developments such as this could best be described as super cautious. It has a remit to manage the inland waterways network for a range of users, and I imagine there's a fear that facilitating cycling too much might unduly inconvenience the other categories of user (walkers, fishers, birdwatchers, boat people, etc.).

You'll note that the line you quoted comes from the webpage on Tourist Information.

Concern over mopeds using the cycle track should also not be forgotten- a very real consideration in the parts of Dublin that this route passes through.

Tails142

Regarding the cost, ESB are covering approoximately 50%, SDCC 40% and DCC 10%

The path goes under bridges as a general rule, except at Kylemore Road as the existing tunnel was unsuitable. All road crossings will have toucan lights for crossing.

It should be opening 'officially' around March, the fences might come down in some sections early once all work is completed.

The best part of the project in my opinion is the new ramps down from all the bridges, i.e. Kylemore Road, Park West, Fonthill Road, Outer Relief Road (Lucan) - these will be great for commutters and really improve access onto the canal.

Also having looked at that cycle bridge near adamstown - is it really necessary? You could cycle along lynch's lane which runs almost parallel with the canal and then up onto the outer relief road and bank onto the south side of the canal on the new ramps that have gone in. Seems like a waste of money imho.

Sean02

Hi Mockler why don't you organise your Canal e2e to coincide with the opening week-end. Sure to raise added interest. Hello to the few I encountered on the Royal since Jan 1. Hope the Adamstown route has good kissing gates to keep the yoboos out. I'm confused regarding the interests of OPW and Waterways Ireland and thier respective interest in the canals from the point of maintenance, development and safety. Can't be anything to do with current cutbacks as even when we were awash with dough both had no interest in developing cycle commuter, tourism or safety aspect along either Royal or Grand. Although I must say eventualy when I persisted they did remove the fallen tree blocking the path at Porterstown. At the end of the day when Mr. Gormley or Dempsey have no interest, it's a lost cause. My critism should in no way take away from the great work being done by the many voluntary canal conservation groups and some sections of Waterways.

dogmatix

Anyone know when this is going to finally open - i'm at ParkWest and itching to start cycling to work on it. It was always a great commuting route before they shut it for the renovations. The ramps down from the bridge at Parkwest look great - cant wait to start using the whole shebang.

Capt'n Midnight

It's a path, no cycle lanes as yet and those bike unfriendly gates that require you to dismount. Not all tarmac but passable, although the bit under Kylemore Road is a dirt slope that would be impassible when wet as you'd slide into the canal unless you clung to the railing. The ramps to Kylemore Road are sealed so you can't pass over the bridge there. Lots of grit in places, just needs sweeping.

It's passable from outer ring road (didn't check further westwards) to the town end of the canal


Handy since you don't have to stop for lights, no motorists and being beside a canal it's straight no hills

monument

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

It's a path, no cycle lanes as yet and those bike unfriendly gates that require you to dismount. Not all tarmac but passable, although the bit under Kylemore Road is a dirt slope that would be impassible when wet as you'd slide into the canal unless you clung to the railing. The ramps to Kylemore Road are sealed so you can't pass over the bridge there. Lots of grit in places, just needs sweeping.

It's passable from outer ring road (didn't check further westwards) to the town end of the canal


Handy since you don't have to stop for lights, no motorists and being beside a canal it's straight no hills

That's the advantage of the canal strategic the council seems to have. Even including some crossing, it lowers the amount of traffic lights substantially.

On the North side -- Depending on where you're going to and from, the Royal Canal route to Casleknock, Blanchtown can be shorter by km too than going down the quays and in the park. It would also large serve parts of Finglas and Cabra. Little has to be overcome to making large parts of the route usable -- changing / removing the current gates, paving about 1.4km of current dirt track (another 1.4km if they want to stretch it from Castleknock Station, to Coolmine) and resurfacing small amounts of it. One of the main problem junctions that you have to cross is already to be bridged with the planned Ratoath Road realignment and overbridge.

And the joy of these off road cycle tracks compared to on-footpath cycle lanes, if cyclists don't like them they can use the roads with less chance of getting abuse and breaking the law etc.

dogmatix

I might try it again so - a month ago the Kylemore section was pretty dangerous and not worth using. I notice last night that the ramps at Parkwest onto the canal where open but can't say if this is permanent or not.

Capt'n Midnight

It's still not fully surfaced but they are working on it

The gates are extremely cycle unfriendly as you need to have the bike vertical to get through the style :mad::mad::mad:


Must measure them next time to see if they are even wheelchair accessible .

dogmatix

I've been using this on a regular basis now from Parkwest. The gates are a real pain in the rear. I can understand them being present at the ramp entrances but some are also across the paths themselves - you have to dismount and carry your bike on a number of times before you to the Tyrconnell road area. The gates themselves are very bike-unfriendly, so much so you are better simply lifting your bike over them.

I believe the plan at the Kylemore bridge is to close the underpass and force people up the ramp and across the road to rejoin the path on the other side - I suspect something similar is planned for the Kileen road bridge area.

monument

Due to open properly in three weeks time, at the end of Bike Week, more images and details here.





And some of the locals are still objecting:

monument

Another thread on this also at:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055432737&highlight=lucan&page=2

Chips Lovell

I was checking this out this morning. Lots of folks walking their dogs on it.