Time to tighten yer belts!

spadder

Here we go folks, back to the 80's

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1203/exchequer.html

Roadend

I could have done with some leg warmers this morning

Quazzie

What I can't understand is when he makes cuts in expenditure it means nothing because all it takes is a march on Dail will lead to any cut being abolished. Don't people realise these cuts are necessary. There is too much NIMBY going on as far as I can see

PauloMN

Is it just me, or is anyone else actually happy in some ways to see a recession?

It was getting just mental here with the prices of houses, cars, food etc..

Yeah, I know, I wouldn't be saying that if I lost my job, but seriously, we need this to a certain extent.

Radharc na Sleibhte

Maybe he might actually drive himself to work so rather than paying some numpty €50k for the pleasure?????

Didn't think so.

Hate the sight of him, wanker.

ShooterSF

We might get better music so

AnonoBoy

I have lost weight recently - thank you for noticing.

Vegeta

MikeySligo wrote: »

Maybe he might actually drive himself to work so rather than paying some numpty €50k for the pleasure?????

Didn't think so.

Hate the sight of him, wanker.

Yeah I might be able to take these guys seriously if they were not living it up at our expense.

themadchef

Typical "do as i say not as i do" bull coming from the government.

I cant see those feckers tightening their Belts any time soon.

Hypocrites.

People aren't spending as it is. People not spending = shops going out of business = job losses = people spending even less.

We're fcuked!





*Bring back Bosco, take away all forms of games consoles, give the kids 2 channels to fight over..that'il learn em.

andrewh5

PauloMN wrote: »

Is it just me, or is anyone else actually happy in some ways to see a recession?

It was getting just mental here with the prices of houses, cars, food etc..

Yeah, I know, I wouldn't be saying that if I lost my job, but seriously, we need this to a certain extent.

I completely agree. This will be the wake up call that many people need to stop the rip off culturre that exists here. It may also get Fianna Fáil out of government and that won't be a bad thing - we need a change.

Terry

Q2002 wrote: »

What I can't understand is when he makes cuts in expenditure it means nothing because all it takes is a march on Dail will lead to any cut being abolished. Don't people realise these cuts are necessary. There is too much NIMBY going on as far as I can see

That's what this country is built on. Or rather not built on.
If so many people didn't get in the way of progress, we would have a far more functional system.

themadchef wrote: »

Typical "do as i say not as i do" bull coming from the government.

I cant see those feckers tightening their Belts any time soon.

Hypocrites.

People aren't spending as it is. People not spending = shops going out of business = job losses = people spending even less.

We're fcuked!





*Bring back Bosco, take away all forms of games consoles, give the kids 2 channels to fight over..that'il learn em.

Or just send them out to play and get their fat arses off the couch.

quad_red

themadchef wrote: »

T
People aren't spending as it is. People not spending = shops going out of business = job losses = people spending even less.

I notice another thread in here on shopping up north and it got me seriously thinking about the way this is all working out.

People are moaning incessantly about cuts to education, to health etc. They are screaming about unemployment figures rising.

And yet, without any feeling of hypocrisy, they'll sit in a ten mile queue outside Newry to buy all the crap they *need* (as much as people need 200 cans of Heineken etc), happy to pay VAT etc in the North. So further exacerbating the need for savage cut backs to health, education etc.

And more so, even pointing this out elicits a savage response, usually replete with pics of Father Ted etc.

Don't get me wrong - I love nice things and I get as excited as any other good consumer/citizen at the sight of a Sale sign. And the profiteering being undertaken by the large chains down here is staggering and needs to stop.

But you can't whine about budget cuts if you are doing your damndest to make sure you spend as much money as you can outside the state.

Anyway, I know that's not a complete argument. Just throwing it out there.

I suppose I remember the whole Buy Irish thing when I was in school. I still try, as much as I can.

But is there any of that spirit left?

PauloMN

andrewh5 wrote: »

It may also get Fianna Fáil out of government and that won't be a bad thing - we need a change.

Indeed we do.

I sound like a broken record at this stage, and sorry it's slightly off topic, but how the f**k did FF ever get back into government? I mean it's not long ago they were voted back in. How??????

Biggins

PauloMN wrote: »

It was getting just mental here with the prices of houses, cars, food etc..

Yeah, I know, I wouldn't be saying that if I lost my job, but seriously, we need this to a certain extent.

Aye, even a small one (recession) is a reminder that certain things have become way too inflated with gross profit margins. A small recession helps to get things in perspective and is a timely reminder about the true value of cash you have in your pocket.

spadder

PauloMN wrote: »

Indeed we do.

I sound like a broken record at this stage, and sorry it's slightly off topic, but how the f**k did FF ever get back into government? I mean it's not long ago they were voted back in. How??????

Because they swindled the Plebs, telling them they were rich because their houses were worth loads. "FF are great lads altogether, look what we done for ye."

Now it's hangover time, the Brits are dealing with their hangover, we decided to keep drinking and hope it goes away.

brianthebard

MikeySligo wrote: »

Maybe he might actually drive himself to work so rather than paying some numpty €50k for the pleasure?????

Didn't think so.

Hate the sight of him, wanker.

Now now the recession has hit Min Lenihan hard too, look at the photo he can't even afford a tie! Teh horror1!!!!!1!

Terry

quad_red wrote: »

I notice another thread in here on shopping up north and it got me seriously thinking about the way this is all working out.

People are moaning incessantly about cuts to education, to health etc. They are screaming about unemployment figures rising.

And yet, without any feeling of hypocrisy, they'll sit in a ten mile queue outside Newry to buy all the crap they *need* (as much as people need 200 cans of Heineken etc), happy to pay VAT etc in the North. So further exacerbating the need for savage cut backs to health, education etc.

And more so, even pointing this out elicits a savage response, usually replete with pics of Father Ted etc.

Don't get me wrong - I love nice things and I get as excited as any other good consumer/citizen at the sight of a Sale sign. And the profiteering being undertaken by the large chains down here is staggering and needs to stop.

But you can't whine about budget cuts if you are doing your damndest to make sure you spend as much money as you can outside the state.

Anyway, I know that's not a complete argument. Just throwing it out there.

I suppose I remember the whole Buy Irish thing when I was in school. I still try, as much as I can.

But is there any of that spirit left?

Sad, isn't it?
Welcome to AH.

I too try to buy Irish whenever I can.
The Celtic cubs don't seem to care though.

PauloMN wrote: »

Indeed we do.

I sound like a broken record at this stage, and sorry it's slightly off topic, but how the f**k did FF ever get back into government? I mean it's not long ago they were voted back in. How??????

People are idiots.

Also:

Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan says that we are living beyond our means.

The man is a genius.

quad_red

Biggins wrote: »

Aye, even a small one is a reminder that certain things have become way too inflated with gross profit margins. A small recession helps to get things in perspective and is a timely reminder about the true value of cash you have in your pocket.

Unfortunately, small is the last thing this is going to be.

I agree with allot of what was being sad. I am in my late twenties. I do not have a mortgage and was watching with increasing desperation as my real income continued to come under pressure from crazy price increases and the chance of owning a home blazed over the horizon.

Now? Well, rents are falling. And every euro in my pocket feels like it's going further. Hopefully, both myself and my gf are secure in our jobs.

PauloMN

quad_red wrote: »

I notice another thread in here on shopping up north and it got me seriously thinking about the way this is all working out.

People are moaning incessantly about cuts to education, to health etc. They are screaming about unemployment figures rising.

And yet, without any feeling of hypocrisy, they'll sit in a ten mile queue outside Newry to buy all the crap they *need* (as much as people need 200 cans of Heineken etc), happy to pay VAT etc in the North. So further exacerbating the need for savage cut backs to health, education etc.

Totally disagree. This whole guilt trip about spending money is complete nonsense from FF.

The money in your pocket has been taxed, you've paid levies, PRSI on it. That money should cover basic essential services. The money you are left with you should be able to spend anywhere without some prick making you feel bad about it.

Targetting people shopping in Newry is a farce. I never heard the government complain about shopping online which is a much bigger threat imo than a December spree in Newry for drink and groceries.

In any case, the spend in NI during Dec is a fraction of the money I spend here throughout the year, and I'm sure that's the same for everyone else.

The exodus to Newry is way down the list of issues that has Ireland in its current state. Way way down.

Radharc na Sleibhte

PauloMN wrote: »

Totally disagree. This whole guilt trip about spending money is complete nonsense from FF.

The money in your pocket has been taxed, you've paid levies, PRSI on it. That money should cover basic essential services. The money you are left with you should be able to spend anywhere without some prick making you feel bad about it.

Targetting people shopping in Newry is a farce. I never heard the government complain about shopping online which is a much bigger threat imo than a December spree in Newry for drink and groceries.

In any case, the spend in NI during Dec is a fraction of the money I spend here throughout the year, and I'm sure that's the same for everyone else.

The exodus to Newry is way down the list of issues that has Ireland in its current state. Way way down.

Good way of looking at it.

quad_red

PauloMN wrote: »

Totally disagree. This whole guilt trip about spending money is complete nonsense from FF.

The money in your pocket has been taxed, you've paid levies, PRSI on it. That money should cover basic essential services. The money you are left with you should be able to spend anywhere without some prick making you feel bad about it.

Targetting people shopping in Newry is a farce. I never heard the government complain about shopping online which is a much bigger threat imo than a December spree in Newry for drink and groceries.

In any case, the spend in NI during Dec is a fraction of the money I spend here throughout the year, and I'm sure that's the same for everyone else.

The exodus to Newry is way down the list of issues that has Ireland in its current state. Way way down.

Consumer spending was one of the driving forces of our economy for the last ten years. And it has become a major pillar in supporting the enormous increase in what we expect public services to provide us now.

Listen, I ain't saying that you're wrong when you point out that there are more important issues here. There are. And, as with everything else, there's FF spin involved here.

But I suppose what I'm asking is are people really willing to sacrifice anything or pull together in times of hardship.

ie. If it really was as simple as buying Irish when you could and spending all of your disposable income in the South that would alleviate allot of the economic hardship - would people do it even then?

Or does the VAT disparity allow people to forgo any cutbacks to their own expectations of what they can consume this Christmas, and allow the gorging to continue?

Anyhow, I appreciate the measured and courteous response!

Biggins

PauloMN wrote: »

...Targetting people shopping in Newry is a farce. I never heard the government complain about shopping online which is a much bigger threat imo than a December spree in Newry for drink and groceries.

In any case, the spend in NI during Dec is a fraction of the money I spend here throughout the year, and I'm sure that's the same for everyone else...

Before we even think about crossing the border, we have paid tax on our petrol to get there, paid tax on our vehicles to take us there, paid tax on our insurance to cover us for the trip, paid tax on the clothes to cover us while travelling, paid tax on the food that filled us up as we got our breakfast that morning, paid tax on the ESB to heat the food, we even have paid tax on the newspapers we read while stuck in the vehicle queues at the border!

Don't let anyone mention we are not doing our bit for our own country!

PauloMN

quad_red wrote: »

But I suppose what I'm asking is are people really willing to sacrifice anything or pull together in times of hardship.

Not having a go at you, just disagreeing! (Just to clarify, I was not insinuating that you were a prick at all, that was directed as a general comment to those in government who try to make us feel guilty for spening money elsewhere. Sincere apologies if it appeared that way.)

But to answer the question above - I'd be happy to spend more money here if retailers stopping ripping us off. Look at the shops here that have sterling and euro price tags. Too much of a difference when our currency gathers strength.

I'd even pay a little more here, but not the gulf between NI prices and ROI prices when I do a big Xmas shop.

I honestly don't want to see people lose jobs and businesses close down. But Newry shopping is a symptom, not a cause. How we are governed, how retailers have operated here during the past decade, how unions have turned the screw with their demands - all those things are the cause, or part of the cause.

Relevant

I don't think it is a case of people needing to tighten their belts. It is more that they need to take a good look at what they are spending and where they are spending it. By supporting Irish business people are supporting a cycle which will elp grow the economy.

For example...

Take €100 spent on an Irish product in an Irish store:
This will give a job to the shop worker and the producer. Both of these people will pay tax on earnings and will spend money in the state. By spending this money they are in turn creating more jobs.

On top of the tax paid by the irish workers there is also VAT. All these taxes contribute to the irish coffers which can be used to invest in infrastructure. eg a school.

In order to build this school the builder will get a job. The builder will pay tax and spend money in the economy. The process continues...

Buying Irish creates jobs and increases the tax take. Every time people are buying UK or other foreign goods they are promoting that countries economy at the detriment of our own.

quad_red

Biggins wrote: »

Before we even think about crossing the border, we have paid tax on our petrol to get there, paid tax on our vehicles to take us there, paid tax on our insurance to cover us for the trip, paid tax on the clothes to cover us while travelling, paid tax on the food that filled us up as we got our breakfast that morning, paid tax on the ESB to heat the food, we even have paid tax on the newspapers we read while stuck in the vehicle queues at the border!

Don't let anyone mention we are not doing our bit for our own country!

Fair enough. But does your family own a business here? Do your friends work in shops here? Do your family or friends work for companies that supply services to businesses down here?

They depend on you spending your *disposable* income. They, we, you most likely (not knowing exactly where you work. Maybe you're a public servant and are actually getting paid from my tax money, who knows!) are making a living from people paying for goods and services here.

Relevant

PauloMN wrote: »

. Look at the shops here that have sterling and euro price tags. Too much of a difference when our currency gathers strength.

Do you not realise that the wages south of the border are higher than that in the north?

S.I.R

spadder wrote: »

Here we go folks, back to the 80's

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1203/exchequer.html

if it means we get good music like the 80's had also i could live poor

PauloMN

Relevant wrote: »

Do you not realise that the wages south of the border are higher than that in the north?

Of course I do, but I won't pay 30 to 40% more for my Xmas goods here just to cover a high minimum wage.

See my comment above about the unions.

Dinter

What makes people think by spending your money in the South you are in any way going to contribute to a successful economy?

You have only to look at the disaster that arose from the biggest tax takes in the history of the State to realise that the bunch of buffoons in charge of spending it have as much natural ability as a quadraplegic goalie.

Save yourselves money by going where ever you have to because anything you pay to the state you might as well just throw in a fire and burn.

SheroN

quad_red wrote: »

Fair enough. But does your family own a business here? Do your friends work in shops here? Do your family or friends work for companies that supply services to businesses down here?

They depend on you spending your *disposable* income. They, we, you most likely (not knowing exactly where you work. Maybe you're a public servant and are actually getting paid from my tax money, who knows!) are making a living from people paying for goods and services here.

I wouldn't bother wasting your time.

People are making savings in the short term. They don't care about the long term, they can blame the government (or whoever) once things get worse over the coming year(s).

Biggins

quad_red wrote: »

Fair enough. But does your family own a business here? Do your friends work in shops here? Do your family or friends work for companies that supply services to businesses down here?

They depend on you spending your *disposable* income. They, we, you most likely (not knowing exactly where you work. Maybe you're a public servant and are actually getting paid from my tax money, who knows!) are making a living from people paying for goods and services here.

Thats why we have bought (for the last 11 months alone!) our cars in the south, bought most of our food (so far) in the south, bought our clothes in the south, bought our magazines and papers in the south, bought our petrol in the south, bought our toys for the kids in the south, bought our Christmas tree and lights in the south, it goes on and on...

Please, give us a break!

We take a shopping trip up the north to save money and all of a sudden we are all evil!
Get a grip, there is worse vast profit making, money grabbers the other side of the counter down here.
Try giving out to them instead - they have been over charging us the same last 11 months that we have been giving them our hard earned cash!

Relevant

Dinter wrote: »

What makes people think by spending your money in the South you are in any way going to contribute to a successful economy?

You have only to look at the disaster that arose from the biggest tax takes in the history of the State to realise that the bunch of buffoons in charge of spending it have as much natural ability as a quadraplegic goalie.

Save yourselves money by going where ever you have to because anything you pay to the state you might as well just throw in a fire and burn.

Do you work for a company that has customers? What happens when those customers no longer have the money to spend as they have lost their jobs due to people going to northern ireland rather than them? It won't be long before your company goes bust too. Then what will you do?

big b

quad_red wrote: »

Fair enough. But does your family own a business here? Do your friends work in shops here? Do your family or friends work for companies that supply services to businesses down here?

Are any of your friends who are working in retail or supply services to retail outlets going north to make their money go further?

Are any of those who save money by going north maybe going to spend some of that saving in restaurants, pubs etc down here?

I'm all for buying Irish too, on a level playing field, but:
some of the differences are just too big to ignore
the retail market here hasn't exactly helped itself over the years
I'll be fecked if I'm going to feel guilty for careful shopping during a recession

PauloMN

So the folks on here who are against people going to Newry for a Christmas shop - have you never shopped online? Never ever? And you are happy to pay inflated Irish prices for everything?

Sorry, but anyone who answers "yes" to those questions I simply do not believe.

NI shopping is only an issue right now because of the time of year and the fact that it's so visible due to traffic volumes. Online shopping is there all year long, and saves people hundreds in one go. Why have I not heard the anti-Newry brigade kicking up a fuss about online shopping? Probably because they are all on their PCs all year long picking up the bargains. There is your hypocracy.

Vegeta

Relevant wrote: »

Do you work for a company that has customers? What happens when those customers no longer have the money to spend as they have lost their jobs due to people going to northern ireland rather than them? It won't be long before your company goes bust too. Then what will you do?

Move it to Newry

SheroN

PauloMN wrote: »

So the folks on here who are against people going to Newry for a Christmas shop - have you never shopped online? Never ever? And you are happy to pay inflated Irish prices for everything?

Sorry, but anyone who answers "yes" to those questions I simply do not believe.

NI shopping is only an issue right now because of the time of year and the fact that it's so visible due to traffic volumes. Online shopping is there all year long, and saves people hundreds in one go. Why have I not heard the anti-Newry brigade kicking up a fuss about online shopping? Probably because they are all on their PCs all year long picking up the bargains. There is your hypocracy.

You can justify it to yourself anyway you want.

Bit of a difference between ordering a few books off amazon and heading up to Newry once every few weeks to do all your grocery shopping.

Relevant

Vegeta wrote: »

Move it to Newry

Do us all a favour and go now then!

Dinter

Relevant wrote: »

Do you work for a company that has customers? What happens when those customers no longer have the money to spend as they have lost their jobs due to people going to northern ireland rather than them?

Tbh you can't force people to shop down here. However I don't think the Government is thinking this through (again). Basically they won't increase the standard PAYE levels because they like to point at them when the opposition bothers to question them on their success rate.

They instead increase the shadow taxes, VAT, income levy etc. This makes the North far more attractive to anyone and is of course going to have an impact on people's shopping patterns. If the situation is so serious then the Government needs to bite the bullet and ram up direct taxation and stop it's dependence on shadow taxes that as we can all see have the potential to fail miserably.

If people were giving more money to the State directly then VAT etc could be decreased which would make shopping at home far more attractive.

Relevant wrote: »

It won't be long before your company goes bust too. Then what will you do?

I'm not sure but I'll have a little bit more saved by not wasting my money down South supporting a cabal of shops that see fit to spending the last decade over charging me.

Vegeta

SheroN wrote: »

You can justify it to yourself anyway you want.

Bit of a difference between ordering a few books off amazon and heading up to Newry once every few weeks to do all your grocery shopping.

To quote your very good self

"You can justify it to yourself anyway you want."

Ahhh I got a good laugh out of that one cheers

thelordofcheese

SheroN wrote: »

I wouldn't bother wasting your time.

People are making savings in the short term. They don't care about the long term, they can blame the government (or whoever) once things get worse over the coming year(s).

and they'll happily blame the government for thinking and acting in the short term, not the long term.

Ohh the ironing, it is delicious.

PauloMN

Vegeta wrote: »

To quote your very good self

"You can justify it to yourself anyway you want."

Ahhh I got a good laugh out of that one cheers

As Meat Loaf once said.... "you took the words right out of my mouth".

Dinter

thelordofcheese wrote: »

and they'll happily blame the government for thinking and acting in the short term, not the long term.

Ohh the ironing, it is delicious.

There's no irony when the Governemnt has a history of having no strategic plan in the long or short term.

Instead it's one blundering, meandering mess.

Terry

Biggins wrote: »

Before we even think about crossing the border, we have paid tax on our petrol to get there, paid tax on our vehicles to take us there, paid tax on our insurance to cover us for the trip, paid tax on the clothes to cover us while travelling, paid tax on the food that filled us up as we got our breakfast that morning, paid tax on the ESB to heat the food, we even have paid tax on the newspapers we read while stuck in the vehicle queues at the border!

Don't let anyone mention we are not doing our bit for our own country!

But you would be paying all those taxes anyway.

bill_ashmount

It's great to see so many people heading north to shop. Long may it continue.

For the shopkeepers and politicians down south, change your way of business or bye-bye.

PauloMN

SheroN wrote: »

You can justify it to yourself anyway you want.

Bit of a difference between ordering a few books off amazon and heading up to Newry once every few weeks to do all your grocery shopping.

So, seeing as you obviously have a clearly defined yardstick as to who's just getting a small bargain and who's bringing the country to it's knees, would you care to tell us what that yardstick is? €10 saved? €100 saved? €1000 saved? €10000 saved?

It is quite incredible to me that there are people who'll happily shop online and smugly sit there in front of their PCs with their Amazon book castigating those who drive up to Newry to essentially do the same thing.

SheroN

Terry wrote: »

But you would be paying all those taxes anyway.

No point in pointing out such things. People are giving the government/shop ownders two fingers they don't seem to realise that they're ****ing themselves over too though.

Vegeta

SheroN wrote: »

No point in pointing out such things. People are giving the government/shop ownders two fingers they don't seem to realise that they're ****ing themselves over too though.

Says the guy who happily shops on-line all year round.

You're killing me here, keep these coming they're golden.

kf1920

If Mary Harney can tighten a 30" Belt around her waist,
then ill start tightening mine and spending less!

If she can afford to stay that fat, we can afford to spend frivolously.

SheroN

PauloMN wrote: »

So, seeing as you obviously have a clearly defined yardstick as to who's just getting a small bargain and who's bringing the country to it's knees, would you care to tell us what that yardstick is? €10 saved? €100 saved? €1000 saved? €10000 saved?

It is quite incredible to me that there are people who'll happily shop online and smugly sit there in front of their PCs with their Amazon book castigating those who drive up to Newry to essentially do the same thing.

Going up north every few weeks to do *all* your shopping is very different to ordering a few books online wouldn't you say?

Turd Ferguson

I blame the Large Hadron Collider for all of this.

Biggins

Terry wrote: »

But you would be paying all those taxes anyway.

Thats partly my point. We have been paying them for the last year, not just on our trip up north.
We have been paying them since the day we were born in Ireland, we have being paying them through the good times of the Celtic Tiger and now we are still paying them through the bad times still.

We take a trip up north to save on food for our kids and all of a sudden the shops that have been ripping us off are giving out!

Shame on them, I see nothing but a bunch of hypocrites.
If they hadn't and continue even now, to fleece us at the tills, we might still hand them our money.
As it is, once in a while to buy even basics, we will go where it is cheapest, to feed our kids - and that makes us terrible people? Well shame on us!

...for the sake of my kids, I'll gladly live with the shame!