Ban on handguns et al!/FG questiosn Justice about Airsoft

dresden8

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=210367&page=23

Looks like airsoft is being targetted by FG guys. Seems like your drug dealing gangster hit-men too.

We all stand or fall together.

Rovi

Here's a link to the particular post-
#331

whydave

dresden8 wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=210367&page=23

Looks like airsoft is being targetted by FG guys. Seems like your drug dealing gangster hit-men too.

We all stand or fall together.

what next !!!!!
ban all plastic spoons !!!!

Dr_Pepper

dresden8 wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=210367&page=23

Looks like airsoft is being targetted by FG guys. Seems like your drug dealing gangster hit-men too.

We all stand or fall together.

The IAA are meeting with Charles Flanagan from Fine Gael this afternoon as per this post http://irishairsoft.ie/?p=262.

TheDoc

id love to know why i can never log into what im assuming the shooting forum

like im banned or something : /

BTW that document linked above is a great read

Sparks

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

id love to know why i can never log into what im assuming the shooting forum
like im banned or something : /

You are. You got banned for posting this in a thread asking for user opinions on various .223 rifles used for vermin control:

Sorry stopped readig after first page, hope you feel manly shooting poor defenceless animals, im not in anyway a big animal lover but all your big rifles makes me laugh, foxs dont shoot back.
Make me ****ing sick, gna shoot your babys.
nice rifles though =P
I'm currently searching for a plasma rifle with a 40 watt range............

Masada

LOL., DocFAIL!

Anyway, Just like the wish the lads in the Irish Airosft Association the best of luck with their meeting today.
Airsoft wont remain the harmless and legal sport it is without those who give their time and effort with no profit at all.,

Fyr.Fytr

vtec wrote: »

LOL., DocFAIL!

Anyway, Just like the wish the lads in the Irish Airosft Association the best of luck with their meeting today.
Airsoft wont remain the harmless and legal sport it is without those who give their time and effort with no profit at all.,

My feelings exactly

Spetzcong

The IAA document is very good, lets just hope the FG lads are actually willing to listen to you and aren't going in with their minds already made up about airsoft. I suppose the fact that they're meeting you at all is a good sign. Good luck.

ScumLord

Jesus it's not like they've nothing better for doing. No wonder this country's going down the toilet when all the politicians ignore real problems for cheap media coverage.

ED E

vtec wrote: »

Anyway, Just like the wish the lads in the Irish Airosft Association the best of luck with their meeting today.
Airsoft wont remain the harmless and legal sport it is without those who give their time and effort with no profit at all.,

I'd just like to point out, without starting more sh1t-stirring, that THIS is why you should join the IAA. Some players have been known to ask "whats in it for me?". I think an organised and very professional(well done lads) defence of our sport is well worth a few bob anually.

Thumbs up lads.

Tommyboy71

I hope everything goes well. I will be interesting to hear the reaction of the politicians once they have been given the proper information backed up with substantial scientific data.

Make us proud.

ScumLord

Tommyboy71 wrote: »

I hope everything goes well. I will be interesting to hear the reaction of the politicians once they have been given the proper information backed up with substantial scientific data.

Make us proud.

As long as they don't start the meeting by doing a room breeching demonstration they should do.

Stercus Accidit

There are feck all posts I haven't thanked in this thread, what a pain this nonsense is.

Well I'm proud to be a paid up member of the IAA right now, way ahead of us lads, thanks.

Sparks

Answers up.

iceage

Any mention of the outcome of the IAA meeting with Mr Flanegan I wonder?

ScumLord

So basically their putting controls (probably similar/direct copy of the UKs) on airsoft but no talk of an outright ban????

irishlostboy

ScumLord wrote: »

So basically their putting controls (probably similar/direct copy of the UKs) on airsoft but no talk of an outright ban????

what are the controls in england on airsoft?

Stercus Accidit

Well the sport is crippled with bureaucratic nonsense.

Idiotic laws like the gun must be green, and painting over it is an offence, real nonsense really.

Arnies airsoft have a whole section dedicated to vcra crap, they even prevented airsoft passing through to Ireland by regular mail.


The main objective is to avoid such utter nonsensical drivel legislation.

TheDoc

sorry for off topic

but lol, i have little recollection of that, mostly because i was a prat not so long ago on boards.

Apologies to all

Stercus Accidit

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

sorry for off topic

but lol, i have little recollection of that, mostly because i was a prat not so long ago on boards.

Apologies to all

In the realms of 5 minutes I'd say.

ZING!

As long as you don't bail on the beers, you can take some of the flak I usually get at the bloody things.


On Topic, any idea when the results or a preliminary indication of them will be released?

irishlostboy

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Well the sport is crippled with bureaucratic nonsense.

Idiotic laws like the gun must be green, and painting over it is an offence, real nonsense really.

Arnies airsoft have a whole section dedicated to vcra crap, they even prevented airsoft passing through to Ireland by regular mail.


The main objective is to avoid such utter nonsensical drivel legislation.

thanks for informing me.

Stercus Accidit

irishlostboy wrote: »

thanks for informing me.

Google arnies airsoft, great forum for international airsoft, and also has all the vcra info if you are interested.

OzCam

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Well the sport is crippled with bureaucratic nonsense.
Idiotic laws like the gun must be green, and painting over it is an offence, real nonsense really.

Arnies airsoft have a whole section dedicated to vcra crap, they even prevented airsoft passing through to Ireland by regular mail.

The main objective is to avoid such utter nonsensical drivel legislation.

I agree, but criticism of the VCRA* should be accurate and substantive.

Two-Tone painting may be aesthetically repugnant, but there are a lot worse things in the VCRA and how it regulates Airsoft. When arguing legislative issues, we need to keep our eye on the main issues, and worry about paint if and when the sport's future is secure and it's accessible to all.


* and any clone of it suggested for this jurisdiction.

gerrowadat

Sparks wrote: »

Answers up.

While I recognise that further measures are necessary,
I should point out that the use of such equipment during the course of committing an offence carries with it heavy penalties.

The language of this is promising, it shows that the minister was being slightly dismissive of the 'these items are used to commit crimes' argument, and his acknowledgement that further measures are necessary is in line with the IAAs stance.

Now it just remains to be seen what the wording of the bill will be like, and if the IAA can do to influence it before it's published.

Frank the Manc

any word from the IAA lads who were in attendence?

Doomofman

gerrowadat wrote: »

While I recognise that further measures are necessary,
I should point out that the use of such equipment during the course of committing an offence carries with it heavy penalties.

The language of this is promising, it shows that the minister was being slightly dismissive of the 'these items are used to commit crimes' argument, and his acknowledgement that further measures are necessary is in line with the IAAs stance.

Now it just remains to be seen what the wording of the bill will be like, and if the IAA can do to influence it before it's published.

Whens it gonna be published?

Stercus Accidit

Frank the Manc wrote: »

any word from the IAA lads who were in attendence?

I'm sure they'll post in due time, after all this isn't their forum and the meeting isn't over long yet.

Tigger

vcra or some form of it was inveatable

i have said all along that its impossailbe to stop idiots and kids playing with airsoft in public and suchlike with out this sorta stuff

thanks to the lads for meeting with fg and all their other meetings etc

however meeting with fg won't do anything; the legislators arer the ones the will (and have ) be working on

i for one would like to especially thank those who will be stanjding down this year , they will be missed

i know i'm the first one to ask an akward or annoying question but i've always regarded it as practise for them to deal with annoying/akward/down right illogical points of view

Stercus Accidit

There is a thread on the IAA forums about proposals to the DOJ for legislating airsoft.

Legislation will be a good thing if done correctly, I just hope the ideas the lads drummed out will be heeded.

Tigger

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

There is a thread on the IAA forums about proposals to the DOJ for legislating airsoft.

Legislation will be a good thing if done correctly, I just hope the ideas the lads drummed out will be heeded.

i know they have also met the doj before

Fallschirmjager

wrote:

While I recognise that further measures are necessary,
I should point out that the use of such equipment during the course of committing an offence carries with it heavy penalties.

The language of this is promising, it shows that the minister was being slightly dismissive of the 'these items are used to commit crimes' argument, and his acknowledgement that further measures are necessary is in line with the IAAs stance.

Now it just remains to be seen what the wording of the bill will be like, and if the IAA can do to influence it before it's published.

here is the rest here is the rest

'It was against this background that I recently announced my proposals for reform in this area, which include a ban on issuing new licenses for handguns and a strict regime for renewal of existing licenses, with limited exceptions made in relation to Olympic sports. These proposals will be reflected in the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill which I will be publishing in the coming weeks.

It is important to say that my proposals in relation to handguns will not impinge directly on the activities of the vast majority of licensed firearms holders. I recognise that those firearms holders pursue their legitimate interests in a law abiding way and am anxious to have a well-regulated sector in which those interests can be successfully pursued, in cooperation with the relevant authorities.'

how is that promising? yet again the irish govt lurches back to form. go back to sleep citizens, your govt is in control, go back to sleep...your govt knows best, go back to sleep.....goood girls and boys

that is disgusting. you see the implication?? pistol owners are somehow not to be trusted. its those dodgy bunch there, you know those dodgy bunch with the LICENSES!!. i am so fracken ticked off you have no idea. this is a fracken outrage. OH NO!!! lets not look at the BURGLARY, lets not look at those...no no no...look we have 27 handguns loose in the environment. i mean FFS!!! 27, he is concerned about 27 handguns, there more illegal handguns then that in bars every night in some of the dodgier parts of Dublin FFS!!! so we have 1800 LEGITIMATE PISTOL owners, 27 were stolen so they are going to ban them all!!! WTF! WHY?? because he feels there is a handgun culture?? HE FEELS?? Really?? lets again look at those FACTS SHALL WE

1800 pistol owners

27 stolen

BAN THEM ALL...thats the plan, thats the plan is it for gun crime?? to ban legitimate licenses gun holders...that is the solution to gun crime in ireland. yes lets deploy the police to tackle those dangerous people with the licenses, with their addresses on them, you know, the ones that went to police stations to ask for them....yes 'THOSE' people.

God, go back to sleep...the minister knows best....

sorry for the rant...it is not directed at anyone here...

this is a fracken joke....

oh and if you think its going to end there....no no no...this is the beginning...

whydave

feel better ?

Fallschirmjager

whydave wrote: »

feel better ?

to be honest, no...

i wish it were that easy.

i am not a handgun owner by the way but that is just sad sad sad indictment of where we are in the 21 century....

i truly feel very sorry for pistol owners....but i do know this

you see those storm clouds on the horizon, they be coming our way...

Tigger

when i first forund out about airsoft the first person i rang was my mate
me's a plain cloths copper he has his own real pistol and the has acess to real steel at work`

he told me that i was wrong and that airsoft wqaz illegal
i said its grand
he came to gtac with me and loved it he go his mates playing

but

they all say that they will treat as weapons and airsoft pistol they find on someone (i assume their logic is that the type that they would be searching will only have it to be a method of intimidation)

from discussing it with him i decided that th only way this can go is that lisencing of players of some form will occur

i hope that it will be by us for us but if its not i hope that its not too restrictive

Frank the Manc

i wonder how many of that 27 were in fact pistols held by members of an garda shiocána?
id be quite surprised if there wasnt at least one included, but not mentioned.

does any one know if they have to have a monitored alarm on their house as real shooters are requested to have?

i think that the registration of retailers would go a long way to cutting down on the amount of scum getting their hands on airsoft guns.
the government basically left a loop-hole open in 2006 and now it seems that we legitimate airsofters will bear the brunt of this.
of course the scum will continue to get airsoft guns abroad, along with CS & Pepper spray, knucks, swords(when they get banned) ect.

registration of airsofters as individuals would of course generate much needed revenue for the wasteful gangsters & gombeen men & women who lied their way into power and will continue to remain in power despite all the blunders over the last 20 years, the elsctorate will forget come polling time and re-elect these criminals.

Tigger

well i for one think ff are great and that its all the green party and harneys fault

ED E

Lads, he're is the real question, how many guns held by An Gardai Siochana have gone missing since 2004? Are all the arms belonging to the defence forces accounted for? We saw how a replica Aug A1 got into a barracks' armoury just a few months back, thats great security.

Also 27 stolen, but no stats on if they were ever used. We have what, few hundred gun related incidents annualy? 27 stolen handguns, very small percentage. And while I'm on that, as Falls said, 0.015%!!!!!!! Thats the percentage of licenced handguns stolen. Thats a pretty good track record in my eyes.



Its all just fecking apeasement bulls1t:mad:

iceage

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

We saw how a replica Aug A1 got into a barracks' armoury just a few months back, thats great security.

QUOTE]


Utter crap.

Lemming

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

We saw how a replica Aug A1 got into a barracks' armoury just a few months back, thats great security.

iceage wrote: »

Utter crap.

I believe that AUG story was debunked. The army did a count and every (real-steel) AUG was accounted for if I recall?

ED E

Lemming wrote: »

I believe that AUG story was debunked. The army did a count and every (real-steel) AUG was accounted for if I recall?

Yeah, they did account for all the real ones, but the fact that a fake got in the first place is worrying.

*if it did get in, papers aren't very reliable:rolleyes:

iceage

Ahem.....no it didn't. As I said earlier, utter c-r-a-p.

BornToKill

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

We saw how a replica Aug A1 got into a barracks' armoury just a few months back, thats great security.

'News of the World'?

[/quoteLethal_Bullet;58132639] 27 stolen handguns, very small percentage. And while I'm on that, as Falls said, 0.015%!!!!!!! Thats the percentage of licenced handguns stolen. Thats a pretty good track record in my eyes.[/quote]

27 of 1,800 is 1.5% and that's not so small a percentage.

Hivemind187

BornToKill wrote: »

27 of 1,800 is 1.5% and that not so small a percentage.

Actually, its a tiny percentage and well within the margin of error when it comes to most statisitical studies.

The stats are useless anyway since they do not list some very important details providing the context they are in.

How many of these are .22?
How many are licensed for huamne dispatch?
How many are starter pistols?
How many are 9mm?
How many are .32?
How many are .40?
How many were stolen from private homes?
How many were stolen from gun clubs?
How many were stolen when in possession of the Gardai?
How many are listed as "suspected stolen" rather than confirmed "stolen"
and many many more.

There are a lot of details missing which would help to give a better understanding of what is really going on and the minister is deliberately avoiding publication of these facts.

BornToKill

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Actually, its a tiny percentage and well within the margin of error when it comes to most statisitical studies.

The stats are useless anyway since they do not list some very important details providing the context they are in.

How many of these are .22?
How many are licensed for huamne dispatch?
How many are starter pistols?
How many are 9mm?
How many are .32?
How many are .40?
How many were stolen from private homes?
How many were stolen from gun clubs?
How many were stolen when in possession of the Gardai?
How many are listed as "suspected stolen" rather than confirmed "stolen"
and many many more.

There are a lot of details missing which would help to give a better understanding of what is really going on and the minister is deliberately avoiding publication of these facts.

You've gotta be kidding: 0.015% is tiny. 1.5% of licensed handguns is a lot given the security requirements. It's 'margin of error' in a telephone poll opinion survey but it's significantly more than that because it's handguns in the hands of criminals. Hello?

Yeah, I read the list of Spark's questions too and they are interesting questions. I would point out that the answer came in response to a question - it's hardly avoiding the issue when you don't answer what someone didn't ask?

Hivemind187

BornToKill wrote: »

You've gotta be kidding: 0.015% is tiny. 1.5% of licensed handguns is a lot given the security requirements. It's 'margin of error' in a telephone poll opinion survey but it's significantly more than that because it's handguns in the hands of criminals. Hello?

Yeah, I read the list of Spark's questions too and they are interesting questions. I would point out that the answer came in response to a question - it's hardly avoiding the issue when you don't answer what someone didn't ask?

Want to reel your neck in a little mate?

0.015 is an absurdly small number its true however it is a percentage so applied to a larger demographic it could easily be in the millions. for example, 0.015% is very close to the percentage population who suffer from Hodgekins Disease or sickle cell anemia but over all it ammounts to millions. statisitics are bull**** and everyone knows it.

In terms of the number of pistols which have been stolen, 27 is not that many. What were the circumstances of the thefts? What security measures were applicable at the moment of theft (did it set of the monitored alarm? was the gun safe broken into?).

I did consider the security measures in place and the only thing I could think of was security measures are put in place to prevent theft, if these are circumvented or fail to act as advertised that does not mean that the owner failed to protect the devices from falling into the wrong hands and it does not constitute grounds for removing the right to licenses. That is penalising the victim to the advantage of the perpetrator and it is idiotic in the extreme.

As for the minister, he has been aqsked for specfics by numerous individuals and groups (not in these specific cases but in others) and has not provided the information for analysis. A transparent system is one in which the information and evidence can be reviewed by those interested parties. This has not happened - or did I miss something?

BornToKill

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Want to reel your neck in a little mate?

0.015 is an absurdly small number its true however it is a percentage so applied to a larger demographic it could easily be in the millions. for example, 0.015% is very close to the percentage population who suffer from Hodgekins Disease or sickle cell anemia but over all it ammounts to millions.

Sorry, I don't understand much of this - I don't know the slang you are using. Are you saying here that a few moments ago 1.5% was not significant but now 0.015% is a lot? Anyway, 27 was more than I was expecting . That's what I wanted to say. Also that the calculation was wrong in the first place.

kdouglas

Lads, remember this is the Airsoft forum, not shooting, so please keep discussion about airsoft, for discussion about the current handgun ban, please head over to the relevant thread in the shooting forum.

Lemming

BornToKill wrote: »

Sorry, I don't understand much of this - I don't know the slang you are using. Are you saying here that a few moments ago 1.5% was not significant but now 0.015% is a lot? Anyway, 27 was more than I was expecting . That's what I wanted to say. Also that the calculation was wrong in the first place.

Statistics are applicable only to very specific criteria. Statistics by themselves are quite worthless unless you can provide the relevant figures on which those statistics are based.

What Hivemind was saying is quite simple. Which is larger?

• 1.5% of 1000
• 0.015% of 2,500,000,000

I'm using arbitrary figures, but the question stands as an example as to why statistics are worthless unless backed up with other information to corroborate them.

BornToKill

Thank you Lemming though I did understand that alright. This is the slang to which I was referring:

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Want to reel your neck in a little mate?

Anyway, kdouglas is correct in that this is the inappropriate forum to discuss it. I just wanted to correct the obvious error. Seeing as everyone is so keen on accuracy and transparency and statistical analysis.

iceage

Yawn, bored already.;)