What type of atheist are you?

ChocolateSauce

So thinking about the discussion in the other thread about the humanists and the AI, I got wondering what the demographics roughly were regarding your views on the subject.

By militant I don't mean people who go out of their way to attack religion, just people who think poorly of it, wish it were gone and are willing to robustly defend atheism at the expense of religion, as opposed to those atheists who are indifferent to religion.

AtomicHorror

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

So thinking about the discussion in the other thread about the humanists and the AI, I got wondering what the demographics roughly were regarding your views on the subject.

So, are you a "militant"/active atheist who promotes atheism and attacks religion, or are you a not-so-militant/passive one who doesn't?

Halfway between the two. I won't tell a believer that he's deluded. I'll just contradict him if he states something that has been falsified by evidence. So I typically have nothing to say to the average Christian, but I'll certainly argue against the creationists.

fitz0

As with AH, somewhere between the two.

Where did militant come from anyway? Ive heard it a lot lately and it makes it sound as though atheists are taking up arms against churches.

Stercus Accidit

Anti theist? Militant?

Well, I play airsoft so that's about as close to militant as I get!

But I do dislike religion, and wonder about people who take it as (pun alert) gospel, regardless of its evidential lack of influence on modern life.

If I meet someone who is religious, I wont bother confronting them, if they confront me, well I suppose Ive enough logic to contradict them, likely bowing out if they seem thick enough to come out with a tell tale devout line, knowing full well its not worth engaging them.

Saying that, I know feck all religious people, its not a topic of conversation I bother with.

What does that make me, apathetic semi-militant atheist maybe!

condra

I am not militant/anti-theistic

I'm into human rights. In that respect, I'm pretty much the antichrist.

The Mad Hatter

People can believe whatever they like. It's nothing to me. If they start trying to force that belief on me, or push it into places of power (such as schools or politics), I might take issue.

And yeah, I know it's already in schools and politics, but not to such a degree as I mind. (I would mind, say, creationism in schools and/or theocratic government.)

I tend to resort to jokes, though, rather than aggravation as I know I'm fighting a losing battle anyhow.

achtungbarry

I used to be a lot more militant but I guess I've mellowed a bit now. As long as religion keeps its nose out of my life, I really don't care.

When it does poke its irrational nose, I am ready to debate but fortunately this is rare.

I still love it though when the JWs or Mormons come knocking.... but that's just for sport.

Galvasean

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

So, are you a "militant"/active atheist who promotes atheism and attacks religion, or are you a not-so-militant/passive one who doesn't?

I'd like to call myself passive on account that I don't go out of my way to convert others to my way of thinking. However if I come across someone misrepresenting atheism (and me as a consequence) I will defend myself vigorously.

rgt320q

Well, I'm anti-theistic to a point. I do think the world would be a better place without the likes of christianity or such around, but I'm cool with the more passive religions like Buddhism and Shinto and wouldn't be against them at all. Also, as AtomicHorror said, I wouldn't actively "attack" religious people on the mere fact that they're religious but I will contradict or debate them if appropriate.

Zillah

I am not militant/anti-theistic

rgt320q wrote: »

Well, I'm anti-theistic to a point.

At first I thought you were Soul Winner because of the avatar and I was very confused.

rgt320q

Zillah wrote: »

At first I thought you were Soul Winner because of the avatar and I was very confused.

Well I suppose I'll have to switch to a Darth Vader avatar now to highlight the difference

pierrot

I am not militant/anti-theistic

well i'm not too sure i'd be able to devote all me time to the oul' atheism:)

Hivemind187

I am not militant/anti-theistic

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

So thinking about the discussion in the other thread about the humanists and the AI, I got wondering what the demographics roughly were regarding your views on the subject.

So, are you a "militant"/active atheist who promotes atheism and attacks religion, or are you a not-so-militant/passive one who doesn't?

Militant .... someone has to be.

/waits for my fatigues and Che Guevara moustache to arrive in the post from the Internation Postal Correspondence Non-Believers Army

sink

I don't like religion but I don't think there is any point in attacking it and I don't look to convert theists. Most atheists arrived at atheism of their own accord and that is the way it should be. All I do is explain my position if someone asks and if the agree that's great but if they don't then that's fine too. They're not going to be won over by being aggressive or confrontational. I also think trying to remove statements like Merry Christmas from public communications is not only pointless it's actually harmful to how atheists/secularist are viewed by the wider community.

The Mad Hatter

sink wrote: »

Most atheists arrived at atheism of their own accord and that is the way it should be.

Completely agree with this point.

UU

I am not militant/anti-theistic

oh well I chose Militant but I don't think I'm that extreme but I won't step gracefully away from religion either. I suppose I'd be sorta in the middle somewhere. If I don't agree with religion, I will speak out against it regardless if it happens to offend somebody or not. But I wouldn't tell people to be atheist but to think for themselves and decide for themselves what they think.

For example I had to go to a funeral mass and I went out of respect but I refused to pray or receive communion and somebody decided to critisise me for that but I put the point out there that if I were say Muslim or Jewish would they come up and say that to me? Probably not. although I was baptised but I actually did the Act of Defection and got removed from the registers or sth so I must be militant enough if I formally left the Church! lol

Malari

I am not militant/anti-theistic

UU wrote: »

oh well I chose Militant but I don't think I'm that extreme but I won't step gracefully away from religion either. I suppose I'd be sorta in the middle somewhere. If I don't agree with religion, I will speak out against it regardless if it happens to offend somebody or not. But I wouldn't tell people to be atheist but to think for themselves and decide for themselves what they think.

For example I had to go to a funeral mass and I went out of respect but I refused to pray or receive communion and somebody decided to critisise me for that but I put the point out there that if I were say Muslim or Jewish would they come up and say that to me? Probably not. although I was baptised but I actually did the Act of Defection and got removed from the registers or sth so I must be militant enough if I formally left the Church! lol

I reckon I'm pretty much like this. I'll be militant if pushed, but mind my own business if not.

I have formally defected from the catholic church and I don't do any of the kneel down, stand up stuff at weddings. If someone challenges me I'll explain my views. It's not really to get them to come over to my way of thingking, it's just to defend myself. I find that most people who ask are really interested in what I have to say and think it's refreshing that I'm honest

Tim Robbins

I associate militant atheism with immaturity, insecurity and one - eyed thinking. I'd have more respect for 9 out of 10 Priests than I would for Chris Hitchens.

Malari

I am not militant/anti-theistic

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I associate militant atheism with immaturity, insecurity and one - eyed thinking. I'd have more respect for 9 out of 10 Priests than I would for Chris Hitchens.

Well, maybe immaturity and the desire to offend. It depends on what you think "militant" means. If it's anti-theism then I don't see how you can relate it to insecurity. It seems in some way that anyone who is vocal about their uncommon beliefs (and not just religious) is accused of insecurity.

Dades

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I associate militant atheism with immaturity, insecurity and one - eyed thinking. I'd have more respect for 9 out of 10 Priests than I would for Chris Hitchens.

You might not think that if you lived in Kansas and they taught your kids creationism!

Handsome Bob

Where's the agnostic choice? I'm indifferent after all.:pac:

Seriously though I wouldn't ever dream of aggressively verbally attacking a religious person. I was brought into to this world by the most perfect woman who is a Catholic so I know better than to disrespect people because of their beliefs. But hey, if you're going to talk **** to me I'm going to hold you up on that. That goes for the believer and the non-believer.

pH

Those throwing around the word militant in relation to atheists, (say Hitchens or Dawkins or indeed anyone you have in mind) - I have a question.

Who are militant atheists, what makes them militant, and by whatever definition makes them a 'militant' would it also make the Pope a 'militant' catholic, or have you a definition for militant which would exclude the Pope but include say Dawkins?

Zillah

I am not militant/anti-theistic

What pH said. Using the word militant is playing right into the hands of people who thrill at the modern anti-atheist biggotry.

Dades

Zillah wrote: »

Using the word militant is playing right into the hands of people who thrill at the modern anti-atheist biggotry.

Says the guy with an inverted cross for his avatar.

Handsome Bob

pH wrote: »

Those throwing around the word militant in relation to atheists, (say Hitchens or Dawkins or indeed anyone you have in mind) - I have a question.

Who are militant atheists, what makes them militant, and by whatever definition makes them a 'militant' would it also make the Pope a 'militant' catholic, or have you a definition for militant which would exclude the Pope but include say Dawkins?

I guess it's a question of respect for me. I watched a debate between Hitchens and D'Souza the other day, and I just got the feeling from Hitchens that he has no time for people that are religious; he said the phrase "no human being with any self respect" more than once. I just get the sense of hatred from the Hitchens for not only the religion, but for the person also, even if that person was passive in their faith.

I'd have the same stance in regards to the current Pope as he has very little 'give' so to speak; when someone denounces children's books for promoting witchcraft, it's stepping over the line.

Joe1919

I read lately that Karl Marx objected to being called a simple atheist and on reflection, he is perfectly right. The word 'atheist' means non-thiest and when a person call themselves an athiest, they are actually defining themselves in terms of something that they dont believe in.(God.), which is negative.
They are still under the control of the Gods so to speak.
Why not define yourself positively, i.e. in terms of what you are, not what your not.
e.g. A humanist, Egotist etc.

ChocolateSauce

I am not militant/anti-theistic

:(I guess I should have been more careful when choosing the semantics.

By militant I didn't mean people who go out of their way to attack religion, just people who think poorly of it, wish it were gone and are willing to robustly defend atheism at the expense of religion, as opposed to those atheists who are indifferent to religion.

As for the militant agnostics, sorry, I didn't think to give you an option.

midlandsmissus

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Where's the agnostic choice? I'm indifferent after all.:pac:

Seriously though I wouldn't ever dream of aggressively verbally attacking a religious person. I was brought into to this world by the most perfect woman who is a Catholic so I know better than to disrespect people because of their beliefs. But hey, if you're going to talk **** to me I'm going to hold you up on that. That goes for the believer and the non-believer.

LZ5by5,

Can I just say I really like you! From all the posts on here I've read (on any board not just religion), you would be the one that sticks out as a really decent, nice person. Fair play.:D

Handsome Bob

midlandsmissus wrote: »

LZ5by5,

Can I just say I really like you! From all the posts on here I've read (on any board not just religion), you would be the one that sticks out as a really decent, nice person. Fair play.:D

Aw, thank you. I try.:)

ChocolateSauce

I am not militant/anti-theistic

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I associate militant atheism with immaturity, insecurity and one - eyed thinking. I'd have more respect for 9 out of 10 Priests than I would for Chris Hitchens.

I've watched a lot of Hitchen's debates and I've come to the conclusion that, unlike Dawkins, he's in it to piss off as many people as he can. He takes more joy in offending people than any other person I've seen, and he sometimes does so at the expense of being right (he's made several statements which were just untrue, though I can't think of any right now).

It was the same with his politics- he's only happy when he's saying things which draw fire. It's a highly entertaining thing to watch actually.

Zillah

I am not militant/anti-theistic

Dades wrote: »

Says the guy with an inverted cross for his avatar.

Atheists as a whole should not be judged according to the actions of a radical few


But really, a militant sounds like one who takes up weapons and uses violence to further their ends. That's not a fair description of those who are critical of religion and its role in society.

ChocolateSauce

I am not militant/anti-theistic

Zillah wrote: »

Atheists as a whole should not be judged according to the actions of a radical few


But really, a militant sounds like one who takes up weapons and uses violence to further their ends. That's not a fair description of those who are critical of religion and its role in society.

I've always found that when applied to atheists, militant takes on a non-violent approaprium. I've never heard of a actual gun-toting militant atheist.

Zillah

I am not militant/anti-theistic

Nor have I but it still conveys a negative impression. Just like some religious people like to attack "materialists"....being the opposite of belief in the supernatural, but it carries extra negative qualities by association with the meaning of obsession with material possessions.

pH

I know the Atheist Ireland discussion is another thread, but maybe what's needed is another militant organisation? How about resurrecting "The Union of Belligerent Atheists" or "The League of the Militant Godless"?

Beruthiel

I am not militant/anti-theistic

Well, I chose militant on the grounds I have no time for religion.
I don't go round attacking religious people though and basically keep my militant tendencies to myself.

Goduznt Xzst

I am not militant/anti-theistic

I'd like to think of myself as a Nihilist militant/anti-theistic Athiest.

I'm against organized religion as whole but would also question the origins of morality, ethics and principles of humanity. I'd very much be an advocate of individual morality rather than enforced societal or cultural morals.

Tim Robbins

pH wrote: »

Those throwing around the word militant in relation to atheists, (say Hitchens or Dawkins or indeed anyone you have in mind) - I have a question.

Who are militant atheists, what makes them militant, and by whatever definition makes them a 'militant' would it also make the Pope a 'militant' catholic, or have you a definition for militant which would exclude the Pope but include say Dawkins?

"Atheism which is actively hostile to religion I would call militant. To be hostile in this sense requires more than just strong disagreement with religion—it requires something verging on hatred and is characterized by a desire to wipe out all forms of religious belief. Militant atheists tend to make one or both of two claims that moderate atheists do not. The first is that religion is demonstrably false or nonsense, and the second is that it is usually or always harmful." (Baggini 2003, Atheism a VSI pp. 101–104)

Came up before

Weidii

I am not militant/anti-theistic

When I was a teen I Loved debating religion with my thus inclined friends. I remember being the only one in the class who was willing to stand up against the angry mob just to show them that there were other options besides religion and it was ok not to believe in this fairytale. Now though, I'm a bit sick of it all, as the same arguments tend to arise again and again and arguing with religeous people often feels a bit fruitless.

Religion and preaching make me feel sick to my stomach and I can honestly say that if I was given the option of pressing a button that would open the eyes of the religeous to exactly what they're following, I would.

As with most atheists, if I ever felt that atheism was being misrepresented or that religion was worming its way further into society/government I would take a stand. For the most part though, I let them at it.

pH

Tim Robbins wrote: »

"Atheism which is actively hostile to religion I would call militant. To be hostile in this sense requires more than just strong disagreement with religion—it requires something verging on hatred and is characterized by a desire to wipe out all forms of religious belief. Militant atheists tend to make one or both of two claims that moderate atheists do not. The first is that religion is demonstrably false or nonsense, and the second is that it is usually or always harmful." (Baggini 2003, Atheism a VSI pp. 101–104)

Came up before

Fine, so a Christian who says that Christianity is true and "makes sense" and that atheism is usually harmful would then by that definition be a "militant" Christian? So you'd be happy to call the Pope and most of Ireland's current and previous archbishops "militant" then?

Dades

pH wrote: »

So you'd be happy to call the Pope and most of Ireland's current and previous archbishops "militant" then?

Well the Pope was trained by the Nazis! :pac:

Galvasean

Dades wrote: »

Says the guy with an inverted cross for his avatar.

Is that what that is?

Handsome Bob

Dades wrote: »

Well the Pope was trained by the Nazis! :pac:

:pac:

Tim Robbins

pH wrote: »

Fine, so a Christian who says that Christianity is true and "makes sense" and that atheism is usually harmful would then by that definition be a "militant" Christian? So you'd be happy to call the Pope and most of Ireland's current and previous archbishops "militant" then?

I'm a militant pacifist so I really can't comment.

ConmanTheKiller

pH wrote: »

Who are militant atheists, what makes them militant, and by whatever definition makes them a 'militant' would it also make the Pope a 'militant' catholic, or have you a definition for militant which would exclude the Pope but include say Dawkins?

I think its best put ,
Militant Muslims fly planes into buildings,
Militant christians blowup abortion clinics,
Militant atheists write books.:D

pH

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I'm a militant pacifist so I really can't comment.

Thanks for clarifying. Maybe when Baggini comes up with a definition of Militant Christian you'll be able to?

lugha

I sometimes wonder why atheism had such peculiarly staunch supporters in its ranks. No doubt much the same people would poo poo the doings of the likes of astrologists, psychics, ghost busters and all manner of (potentially more dangerous) alternative medicine practitioners. But I get the sense that the fight against religion is fought with more conviction. The poll asks if you are a militant atheist. Is anybody ever asked if they are a militant rebutter of astrology?

Zillah

I am not militant/anti-theistic

Galvasean wrote: »

Is that what that is?

I didn't make it, it was in the stock avatars

marco_polo

lugha wrote: »

I sometimes wonder why atheism had such peculiarly staunch supporters in its ranks. No doubt much the same people would poo poo the doings of the likes of astrologists, psychics, ghost busters and all manner of (potentially more dangerous) alternative medicine practitioners. But I get the sense that the fight against religion is fought with more conviction. The poll asks if you are a militant atheist. Is anybody ever asked if they are a militant rebutter of astrology?

Supply and demand. Not enough of the others around to argue with.

On a more serious note, I couldn't agree more about the very real dangers of some branches of alternative medicines, specifically those that portray themselves as a real alternative to conventional medicine.

However atheism is purley a disbelief in Gods, it does not actually require a disbelief in astrologists, psychics etc, but as the majority (not all mind) of atheists view the world through reason, opposition to the likes of the above is a natural consequence.

If you want to play devils advocate, why not start a thread on how great astrology is and find out for sure what everyone thinks ?

lostexpectation

this poll fails

Whispered

marco_polo wrote: »

On a more serious note, I couldn't agree more about the very real dangers of some branches of alternative medicines, specifically those that portray themselves as a real alternative to conventional medicine.

Complementary Medicine, not alternative, this is very important.

Zombrex

helena.ryan wrote: »

Complementary Medicine, not alternative, this is very important.

if you are going to object to anything I would object to the "medicine" bit ...