Free Money From ATM - is it really free?

jkrowling

Well, imagine my surprise when I went to withdraw €90 from my bank account today and got back €180 . To make sure I wasn't going crazy I put my card back in to check the balance and it showed that only the €90 had been deducted. So, I tried again and once more got an extra €90 .

Now if your a sceptic like me, you'll think that nothing is ever free in this life so I'm now worried I'm going to be done for fraud or some other crazy crime.

Anyone know whats the outcome or repurcussions of this are? I spoke to a lad in the queue behind me who told me that this machine has been doing this since last week and that so far he's got over €1000 extra :eek:

January

Where be this magic machine???

XJR

I was left short by €100 euro on an ATM once - when I complained to the bank I was told categorically it couldn't and didn't happen so I was left down the €100. So maybe it cuts both ways - take the money and run. Banks are only a shower of fV<7€r$

it will be taken out of ur account... heard of this before.


if i were you, id prob lodge as much as i could, take it out, lodge again, take it out and then close account.




in a perfect world, that mite work..

KillerShamrock

Deleted User wrote: »

it will be taken out of ur account... heard of this before.


if i were you, id prob lodge as much as i could, take it out, lodge again, take it out and then close account.




in a perfect world, that mite work..

Yeah and no bank will lend to you for sometime after it.

Put it back in your account the atm records ALL cards put in the machine plus with the cctv footage they will work it out.
So they will just overdraw your account and they are perfectly entitled to because at the end of the day you got the money and that will affect your credit rating its the same as forcing credit on your laser or credit card.

dotsman

Yup, I'm afraid it's not your money.

Once they balance the machine and realise they are missing the money, they will go through each transaction and apply the correct amount withdrawn.

Notify them and they of what happened and they are happy with you.
Don't notify them and have the money taken off your balance anyway. And if the balance doesn't cover the amount you owe, your account goes into arrears (very expensive interest).


To use an analogy. Imagine you are a regular in a shop. One day you are given €90 too much change. They notice at the end of the shift and, looking at the CCTV, can see that you were the person they gave too much too, and then see you counting your change, laughing at them and sticking your finger up at them behind their back. How likely are they to let you back into the shop until you return the money?

Ultimately, they made the first mistake, not you. And they will accept that and apologise for that. But you then knowingly defrauded them. Any business (and especially banks) take that $hit seriously.

jkrowling

ok, apparantly this error has been going on since last week and only on certain multiples - €40 and €90 are giving back double. I am not a customer of this bank, I simply used their ATM for convienence. And, to make it even more interesting, you take €40 out now you'll get €40 back but go back an hour later and take €40 you get €80!!!

This is just crazy, it's been going on a week now and they still haven't copped on. How can they prove who got what amount when it's doing it so randomly and on different amounts?

IsThatSo?

The atm records details of your bank account i.e. NSC and account number. Therefore when they balance up and see they are out a LOT of money they will start work on tracing the differences. They will find you and they will get the money back, it just might take a while.

Closing the bank account and doing a runner is not a good idea, really, it will come back to bite you.

jkrowling

If it's doing it randonly, how can they proove who got what?

IsThatSo?

This kind of error usually happens when they but the notes into the wrong slots. The machine is programmed to think that 20's go into a certain place and 50's into another place. If the person loading the machine puts the boxes into the wrong section the machine dosn't know.

Sounds like an odd one though that its just happening on certain figures with that particular ATM, doesn't sound like the usual error.

I guess it comes down to the kind of person you are. Be honest and report the error or be dishonest, keep the money and return for more. IMO its not worth the risk of it coming back to bite you for the sake of 200 odd quid. What goes around comes around

pgroarke

AIB Shop Street.
It happened in that case because the person loading put 20s in instead of 10s.

Large queues formed when the rumour spread.
In that case when the bank found out, the customers were "asked" to return the money but were not obliged to.
However anyone who refused to return the money was effectively blacklisted regarding any AIB services (loans mortgages etc) until they reimbursed the bank.

puntosporting

This happened in patrick stree in limerick bout 10 years ago i doubled my money 200 for 100 like galway a que formed eventualy gardai blocked off the ATM i never heard anymore about it?

ajmull

Ever hear of stealing?

stepbar

You might think it's gas now, but wait until you apply for your next loan. The smile will run fairly quickly off your face.

MarkR

Their credit rating can only be affected by credit scorings and applications for loans etc. It can't be affected by something your bank thought you did (assuming that by its random nature they had to absorb the cost)

What box would be ticked? The "I think he got too much money from the atm before, but I can't prove it.." box?

Of course if they can prove it, and you are unable to repay, or you go into the red when the money does come out, then that will cause problems.

IsThatSo?

People get greedy and when they see the error they do another transaction, and come back for more again after that. That is a dead give away to the bank.

Hoist on their own petard!!

Toots

There's no such thing as a free lunch!! When the bank cops on what's been going on, they can look back over the transactions done on the ATM and figure out who got extra money. I'd be very shocked if your account isn't debited eventually.

nlgbbbblth

MarkR wrote: »

Their credit rating can only be affected by credit scorings and applications for loans etc. It can't be affected by something your bank thought you did (assuming that by its random nature they had to absorb the cost)

What box would be ticked? The "I think he got too much money from the atm before, but I can't prove it.." box?

Of course if they can prove it, and you are unable to repay, or you go into the red when the money does come out, then that will cause problems.

Do not underestimate the long memories of banks and their employees.

Customers who profit from a bank error / honest mistake and refuse to repay what they genuinely owe will find that the same bank may do them no favours next time they look for a loan / mortgage / general assistance.

Even if it is seven or eight years later.

kaiser sauze

stepbar wrote: »

You might think it's gas now, but wait until you apply for your next loan. The smile will run fairly quickly off your face.

There are many banks available to consumers now and this type of error cannot go onto a credit history.

So, no, keep it, it's their error and the onus is on them, not on you.

How quick are banks to refund errors on your accounts?

GSpoon

kaiser sauze wrote: »

There are many banks available to consumers now and this type of error cannot go onto a credit history.

So, no, keep it, it's their error and the onus is on them, not on you.

How quick are banks to refund errors on your accounts?

Thats ridiculous, ATMS are balanced at the end of every business day. No such thing as free money! Fair enough if it happens once, thats an error but if you go back again.. thats theft. If consumers are going to 'try' and outsmart the banks then the banks will have to increase the charges elsewhere to cover the cost of the funds they have lost... Not so smart now.:p

dotsman

kaiser sauze wrote: »

There are many banks available to consumers now and this type of error cannot go onto a credit history.

So, no, keep it, it's their error and the onus is on them, not on you.

How quick are banks to refund errors on your accounts?

Actually, they are very quick as soon as the error is discovered. They also apologise and pay interest on the amount. Also, and importantly, they do not intentionaly overcharge you. However, in this case, you are intentionally stealing from them.

The fact is, that whichever way you cut it, you are robbing a bank. The only thing that differs you from some scumbag doing a heist is the amount of money. I think it says a lot about people that they would steal money, just because they think there is a chance they could get away with it.

If you were in a shop and noticed that the cashier had left the till open while they went off on a lunch/toilet break etc, would you stick your hand in the till? If you saw someone drop their wallet, would you wait for them to walk on so you could steal it? Yes, someone in the bank has made a mistake. But you know who owns the money, yet you actively and intentionaly steal it. It is a shame that the banks won't follow up with prosecutions, but anybody who steal from this deserves the same jail sentance as all other thieves.


As for the thief's credit history. It's very simple. If they can find who the thieves are, they will deduct the money from the thieves' accounts. Now, if your balance doesn't cover the amount you stole (remember, this could be a couple days or a couple weeks after you stole the money), then you go into an unauthorised overdraft. At the least this attracts surcharge interest as well as possibly other penalties. Failure to pay this, will result in your credit history being affected.

pseudonym1

dotsman wrote: »

Actually, they are very quick as soon as the error is discovered. They also apologise and pay interest on the amount. Also, and importantly, they do not intentionaly overcharge you. However, in this case, you are intentionally stealing from them.

The fact is, that whichever way you cut it, you are robbing a bank. The only thing that differs you from some scumbag doing a heist is the amount of money. I think it says a lot about people that they would steal money, just because they think there is a chance they could get away with it.

If you were in a shop and noticed that the cashier had left the till open while they went off on a lunch/toilet break etc, would you stick your hand in the till? If you saw someone drop their wallet, would you wait for them to walk on so you could steal it? Yes, someone in the bank has made a mistake. But you know who owns the money, yet you actively and intentionaly steal it. It is a shame that the banks won't follow up with prosecutions, but anybody who steal from this deserves the same jail sentance as all other thieves.


As for the thief's credit history. It's very simple. If they can find who the thieves are, they will deduct the money from the thieves' accounts. Now, if your balance doesn't cover the amount you stole (remember, this could be a couple days or a couple weeks after you stole the money), then you go into an unauthorised overdraft. At the least this attracts surcharge interest as well as possibly other penalties. Failure to pay this, will result in your credit history being affected.

In my case I had to repeatedly explain the error made by banks no apology and no interest was paid.

Banks have done as they pleased and been ripping us off for years. I don't veiw it as the same as stealing.

Actually if I ever fullfill my dream and pull off a heist on a bank - I probably wouldn't veiw that as stealing .. I DON'T LIKE BANKS.

OP I don't know wheather you should take the risk all by yourself - post up on boards where the ATM is

flushje

What bank are you with? I got a extra €100 from one before and never heard anything about it. I wouldnt have went back the 2 nd time though.

KillerShamrock

pseudonym1 wrote: »

In my case I had to repeatedly explain the error made by banks no apology and no interest was paid.

Banks have done as they pleased and been ripping us off for years. I don't veiw it as the same as stealing.

Actually if I ever fullfill my dream and pull off a heist on a bank - I probably wouldn't veiw that as stealing .. I DON'T LIKE BANKS.

OP I don't know wheather you should take the risk all by yourself - post up on boards where the ATM is

Regardless of banks been ripping you/people off for years or not and that you dont like them that changes nothing you are still stealing. Its not yours.
Stealing is no different depending on who you do it to.

If you take more money than is yours and the bank finds out they take it back from you. if that puts you overdrawn they Will charge you interest and over limit fees it will affect your credit rating if you dont pay it back.
They do not have to and will not say sorry.

stepbar

kaiser sauze wrote: »

There are many banks available to consumers now and this type of error cannot go onto a credit history.

So, no, keep it, it's their error and the onus is on them, not on you.

How quick are banks to refund errors on your accounts?

But it's stealing yeah? Just try it, you'll end up probably having to move banks if you insist on keeping the money.

BENDYBINN

typical ireland-full of begrudgers-if it happened to themselves it would be a different story
keep your mouth shut and have a great christmas!

Toiletroll

stepbar wrote: »

You might think it's gas now, but wait until you apply for your next loan. The smile will run fairly quickly off your face.

I reckon go and try to get a loan anyway!... You mgiht not be smiling afterwards in this day and age

parsi

Treat it as a bailout.

If the bank comes looking tell them that you over-extended yourself , your cash projection software got it wrong, you had a bad day and you're temporarily suffering from a lack of liquidity and as soon as that sorts itself out you'll pay them back.

dotsman

parsi wrote: »

Treat it as a bailout.

If the bank comes looking tell them that you over-extended yourself , your cash projection software got it wrong, you had a bad day and you're temporarily suffering from a lack of liquidity and as soon as that sorts itself out you'll pay them back.

Our man in Havana

parsi wrote: »

Treat it as a bailout.

If the bank comes looking tell them that you over-extended yourself , your cash projection software got it wrong, you had a bad day and you're temporarily suffering from a lack of liquidity and as soon as that sorts itself out you'll pay them back.

Very Good. I must try that sometime.

nlgbbbblth

kaiser sauze wrote: »

There are many banks available to consumers now and this type of error cannot go onto a credit history.

No it won't go on their credit history but it can be noted on their file. Or some staff member will remember it.

You'd be surprised how good someone's memory can be when it comes to recalling unscrupulous pricks who take advantage of honest mistakes.

Toots

It's also worth noting that if this is a result of human error in loading the machines, it's the ATM official who's going to get the blame. And they're not going to be some rich fat cat banker, they'll in all likelihood be a young bank official who earns pretty crap wages and who'll probably get in a lot of trouble if it turns out they did make a mistake.

lucernarian

It's dodgy to go back to the same ATM to do it as it's plain to see you intended for the mistake to happen again.

May I ask what the breakdown of the €180 you got from the ATM was? The error sounds different to having the wrong notes loaded.

The talk of stealing is somewhat scurillous, at least if the extra money from the ATM happened just once. I don't think a bank would be accused of robbery by the gardaí if less cash was dispensed than was nominally withdrawn.

I think they'll come after you for it though as you withdrew from it more than once.

parsi

dotsman wrote: »

No need to be confused - they were the excuses given by the banks when they came on bended knee and asked the taxpayer to bail them out.

stepbar

parsi wrote: »

No need to be confused - they were the excuses given by the banks when they came on bended knee and asked the taxpayer to bail them out.

Come on Parsi, there's a difference between a guarentee and a bailout..... :rolleyes:

johndaman66

Take the money and run is what I say. It is stealing but when we are on the subject its not as if the Irish banks don't steal.

dotsman

parsi wrote: »

No need to be confused - they were the excuses given by the banks when they came on bended knee and asked the taxpayer to bail them out.

What banks? In Ireland? You must know something no-one else does!

There hasn't been any bailouts in Ireland. The Irish banks have so far managed fine. Due to the International Credit Crunch, made worse by our own deteriorating economy, the banks will need to recapitalise (some banks more than others). When this comes, it will come through a combination of private investment, and government investment (which will be looking to make a serious profit fro the pension reserve fund). To date, the banks have not received 1 cent from the taxpayer. In fact it is the opposite - the banks are giving money to the taxpayer for the guarantee.

Please know (or at least pretend to!) what you are talking about before you go making foolish posts like that.

kaiser sauze

stepbar wrote: »

Come on Parsi, there's a difference between a guarentee and a bailout..... :rolleyes:

....bailout is on the way.

kaiser sauze

nlgbbbblth wrote: »

No it won't go on their credit history but it can be noted on their file. Or some staff member will remember it.

You'd be surprised how good someone's memory can be when it comes to recalling unscrupulous pricks who take advantage of honest mistakes.

...hence my comment about changing banks. Easily done.

kaiser sauze

pseudonym1 wrote: »

In my case I had to repeatedly explain the error made by banks no apology and no interest was paid.

Banks have done as they pleased and been ripping us off for years. I don't veiw it as the same as stealing.

Actually if I ever fullfill my dream and pull off a heist on a bank - I probably wouldn't veiw that as stealing .. I DON'T LIKE BANKS.

OP I don't know wheather you should take the risk all by yourself - post up on boards where the ATM is

We seem to have quite a few bank apologists in out midst, so it is good to see someone who has had to make a request more than once for an error to be corrected. This is more common than those apologists will have you believe.

kaiser sauze

dotsman wrote: »

Actually, they are very quick as soon as the error is discovered. They also apologise and pay interest on the amount. Also, and importantly, they do not intentionaly overcharge you. However, in this case, you are intentionally stealing from them.

Not always the case, and your comment about interest is also surprising.

So asking an ATM for €80 and getting €100 is intentionally stealing? Puh-lease.

dotsman wrote: »

As for the thief's (:rolleyes:) credit history. It's very simple. If they can find who the thieves are, they will deduct the money from the thieves' accounts. Now, if your balance doesn't cover the amount you stole (remember, this could be a couple days or a couple weeks after you stole the money), then you go into an unauthorised overdraft. At the least this attracts surcharge interest as well as possibly other penalties. Failure to pay this, will result in your credit history being affected.

In this case, the bank would write to the customer. The customer would usually have a timeframe with which to check they have enough to meet it or lodge enough if necessary.

jaffa20

You can arrange with the bank to repay it on your terms. i.e you can say, "i'll pay 5 euro per month as it's all i can afford". They have to agree with you and it doesn't matter how much you owe them, it can be 10euro or 1million because you could have spent it for all they know if you don't have an account with them.

dotsman

kaiser sauze wrote: »

Not always the case, and your comment about interest is also surprising.

So asking an ATM for €80 and getting €100 is intentionally stealing? Puh-lease.

No, it's stealing if you intentionally go to a broken ATM that you know will dispense too much money. It's also stealing if you don't return the extra €20. Likewise, if a shop/bank short changed you intentionally, you would freak. If a shop/bank accidentally short changed you, but then discovered this and made no attempt to refund you, then again it would be stealing.

A person crosses the line into theft the moment they decide to keep the money (that they know doesn't belong to them, and they also know who it does belong to and have a method of returning the money).

kaiser sauze wrote: »

In this case, the bank would write to the customer. The customer would usually have a timeframe with which to check they have enough to meet it or lodge enough if necessary.

Trust me, if a bank is writing to you about you being in arrears, you are not having a good day.

P.S. A thief is a thief and stealing is stealing. It doesn't matter if you are stealing from a crippled orphan or from a large corporation. I am actually disappointed in the number of people here who actually condone this theft. What kind of people are you?

jaffa20 wrote: »

You can arrange with the bank to repay it on your terms. i.e you can say, "i'll pay 5 euro per month as it's all i can afford". They have to agree with you and it doesn't matter how much you owe them, it can be 10euro or 1million because you could have spent it for all they know if you don't have an account with them.

If you're going to make stuff up, please include that warning in your post, because somebody might read that and construe it as actual sound advice instead of the ridiculous BS that it is.

If you owe the bank money, they can demand repayment at any time. Obviously, out of goodwill they would probably give you a short time frame, but they would not be dictated to by the thief.

kaiser sauze

dotsman wrote: »

Trust me, if a bank is writing to you about you being in arrears, you are not having a good day.

Woah!

When did we start talking about arrears?

jaffa20

dotsman wrote: »

If you're going to make stuff up, please include that warning in your post, because somebody might read that and construe it as actual sound advice instead of the ridiculous BS that it is.

If you owe the bank money, they can demand repayment at any time. Obviously, out of goodwill they would probably give you a short time frame, but they would not be dictated to by the thief.

Don't patronise me. I know what i am talking about. If the error was on their side, you have the right to arrange a repayment method. They cannot take the money of you in one lump sum unless you have an account with them and the funds are available, otherwise, you may have spent the money. You are still a customer even though it is a bank.

So,if a bank makes an error in a transaction then it is up to you to negotiate the terms with them.

kaiser sauze

jaffa20 wrote: »

Don't patronise me, i know what i am talking about. If the error was on their side, you have the right to arrange a repayment method, they cannot take the money of you in one lump sum as you may have spent it. You are still a customer even though it is a bank. Stop saying the word thief. If a bank makes an error in a transaction then it is up to you to negotiate the terms with them.

+ 1

[is that your second one tonight? ]

PeakOutput

op you will probably get caught and you deserve to get caught. the fact you say its apparently random and not happening everytime will make it harder and longer for them to find you out but they can still do it.

if you get away with it great but you probably wont. not alot will happen they will just take the correct amount from your account assuming the funds are available if they re not then you will have a certain amount of time to pay them back before further action is taken.

my mother used to work in a bank so this is slightly old info but i very much doubt its changed much.

edit; it is stealing, would i do it if thought i was going to get away with it? maybe, would i be bothered with the hassle knowing you wont get away with it....probably not

dotsman

kaiser sauze wrote: »

Woah!

When did we start talking about arrears?

See below. The money taken from the atm will eventually be taken from your account. If you have insufficient funds, you are into an unauthorised overdraft.

kaiser sauze wrote: »

dotsman wrote: »

As for the thief's credit history. It's very simple. If they can find who the thieves are, they will deduct the money from the thieves' accounts. Now, if your balance doesn't cover the amount you stole (remember, this could be a couple days or a couple weeks after you stole the money), then you go into an unauthorised overdraft. At the least this attracts surcharge interest as well as possibly other penalties. Failure to pay this, will result in your credit history being affected.

In this case, the bank would write to the customer. The customer would usually have a timeframe with which to check they have enough to meet it or lodge enough if necessary.

jaffa20 wrote: »

Don't patronise me. I know what i am talking about. If the error was on their side, you have the right to arrange a repayment method. They cannot take the money of you in one lump sum unless you have an account with them and the funds are available, otherwise, you may have spent the money. You are still a customer even though it is a bank.

So,if a bank makes an error in a transaction then it is up to you to negotiate the terms with them.

If you steal €100 from the bank, they will want it back. They will not tolerate some fool offering €5 per month. The interest, surcharge interest and penalties accrued each month alone wouldn't be covered by the fiver. Yes, they made the original error. But it is the thief who committed the criminal act. As I said, they would give you a short timeframe to repay.

Why are people here trying to justify it and make it out like it's their right to steal? Both morally and legally, anyone who steals is in the wrong. As said earlier, the moment the stealing is being done is the moment the customer decides to keep the money they know is not rightfully theirs.

BankMan

If the bank who operates the ATM is not the bank where you have your current account, they wont be debiting you at all - no access.

jaffa20

dotsman wrote: »

If you steal €100 from the bank, they will want it back. They will not tolerate some fool offering €5 per month. The interest, surcharge interest and penalties accrued each month alone wouldn't be covered by the fiver. Yes, they made the original error. But it is the thief who committed the criminal act. As I said, they would give you a short timeframe to repay.

Why are people here trying to justify it and make it out like it's their right to steal? Both morally and legally, anyone who steals is in the wrong. As said earlier, the moment the stealing is being done is the moment the customer decides to keep the money they know is not rightfully theirs.

Please get of your high horse. Basing your "facts" on moral grounds doesn't work. I'm not condoning stealing.

I'm making the point that if the bank or their employees make a mistake on a transaction, it is the customer who decides how that is to be repaid unless the bank reverses the transaction if there is available funds. That is what i know so please don't argue against it with your "stealing" argument.

Your signature says it all, just because you think you're right doesn't mean you actually are.

BankMan

Dotsman, your talking ****e. The bank cannot insist on immediate repayment on their terms, due to the absence of a credit agreement. You seem to be under the impression that banks are all powerful, mighty entities that can make whatever demands they see fit. I don't condone unscrupulous individuals taking advantage of an obvious error, but lets keep it in perspective.