Prime Time Trucker Companies (acting illegal) RTE1

the_syco

On Prime Time (RTE 1) now. Very interesting.

galwaytt

Holy ****.

Outrageous, tbh......

alias no.9

Jimmy Quinn, president of the Irish Road Hauliers caught by the short and curlies.

ulick-magee

just watching it.. Argo wont be happy having their name all over it and associated with a rouge operator

galwaytt

vote with your wallet gentlemen: next time you order a 'home delivery only' item from Argos- ask the hard questions. Don't like the answer they give ?..........then toddle to your local furniture shop instead.

Tabnabs

Jimmy Quinn, talk about sweating like a convicted rapist. Fantastic to see him squirm in his seat at the questions they put to him. What a toe-rag :mad:

peasant

Any chance of a synopsis for those of us not in front of a telly ?

Tabnabs

Truck drivers (generally foreign nationals) being paid less than minimal wage at times, for more hours than legally allowed to and without contracts of employment. Quinn lost on all allegations against him in LRC, but still hasn't paid a penny compensation (since last July). This was put to him after he had been all high and mighty about best practice and never condoning haulage firms who operate these practices.

GOTCHA!

Wishbone Ash

The Jimmy Quinn bit was dramatic alright. He was totally caught on the hop. He presumed he would be doing a bit of IRHA PR as usual. What a slap in the face. I don't think I've ever seen anyone looking so shocked and speechless on television.

quattro777

That Jimmy Quinn bit was priceless..tv ambush of the year.

Rowley Birkin QC

Does Prime Time be available on the RTÉ website?

Wouldn't mind seeing this.

mikemac

Yep, it'll be available allright but you probably have to wait until tomorrow
I've often watched old shows from the website

Buffman

That was pretty good alright, took him 3 days to come back to continue the interview, after some legal advice I imagine.:D

That truck trying to outrun the police in Holyhead was funny too, did he really think he'd get away? Smokey and the bandit.
And what was his punishment, a 45 minute break before he contiunes...

paddydriver

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The Jimmy Quinn bit was dramatic alright. He was totally caught on the hop. He presumed he would be doing a bit of IRHA PR as usual. What a slap in the face. I don't think I've ever seen anyone looking so shocked and speechless on television.

I honestly thought he was going to break into tears - the bottom lip started to quivver!

whowantstwoknow

It was good alright, but whats wrong with this country, is that he has todate still got away with it, he should be locked up until the payment is made, simple as that really, just like the cafe owners, they wont be long coughing up when it affects them directly. Does he have a contact email address as I'd luv to congratulate him on his Tv performance

W.

ninty9er

whowantstwoknow wrote: »

Does he have a contact email address as I'd luv to congratulate him on his Tv performance

W.

Can do better than that: from the IRHA website

Hands off Fuel Duty' Call From IRHA President

Jimmy Quinn, President of the Irish Road Haulage Association, has called on Minister for Finance, not to add further excise duty on diesel in next week’s budget.
“Fuel now represents 30% of operating costs for our members, and any further increases would shut us down. The soaring fuel prices over the past year, the dramatic slow down on export/import activities over past weeks, means that already many IRHA members have ‘parked up’ their vehicles” said Jimmy Quinn.
“Budget Day will decide if we have a future in our industry” added Jimmy Quinn.

Jimmy Quinn is available for further comment on 086 2489 877

Darragh29

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The Jimmy Quinn bit was dramatic alright. He was totally caught on the hop. He presumed he would be doing a bit of IRHA PR as usual. What a slap in the face. I don't think I've ever seen anyone looking so shocked and speechless on television.

His reaction was unique, it's the first time I've seen someone caught like that and just saying absolutely nothing! Typically Irish though, pointing the finger at other people and not having your own house in order!

To a certain degree though, I can't see the point Prime Time are trying to make to be honest... My GF often has to work hours well over and above what she is contracted to do as per her terms of employment. For example, she might be at a conference and is away overnight, she is technically working, but she can't turn around and start looking for time and a half or double time for the hours that she is away from home...

Also, I phoned a mate during the interval for that program who is in the transport industry and he said that as long as the trade allows rogue traders into the industry who are undercutting genuine operators, the folks who are genuine operators, have to take short cuts just to stay competitive.

He is currently losing contracts now to sole "fly by night" operators who don't pay any PAYE/PRSI tax, are not properly insured, no professional membership of the industry association, no administration overheads, no VAT invoices, no commercial rates, no rent, etc...

I know this mate well and he is hardworking and legit, but he said that if you were to start every day complying with the law, you wouldn't be in business by the end of the week, because standards within the industry are not enforced... You have licenced hauliers and you have unlicenced hauliers, and as long as you have unlicenced folks in the industry, licenced folks are undercut on price by these under the counter guys...

dologhli

Darragh29 wrote: »

His reaction was unique, it's the first time I've seen someone caught like that and just saying absolutely nothing! Typically Irish though, pointing the finger at other people and not having your own house in order!

Agreed. They really had him there.

Tis up on the site now for anyone ( like me ) who missed it: http://www.rte.ie/news/primetimeinvestigates/ [NB: Fortunately, I missed it cos I was in the pub -- not cos my employers were making me work long hours ]

Darragh29 wrote: »

To a certain degree though, I can't see the point Prime Time are trying to make to be honest... My GF often has to work hours well over and above what she is contracted to do as per her terms of employment.

What do you mean here? Averaging more than 48 hours per week over 4 months? If she is working more than that, then send her off to call the number they list at the end.

Darragh29 wrote: »

For example, she might be at a conference and is away overnight, she is technically working, but she can't turn around and start looking for time and a half or double time for the hours that she is away from home...

But there's a difference between actually working all those hours she's away, and working 9-5 in a different office than usual, with a full night's sleep, etc etc. But it is a curious one:-- see http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0020/sec0002.html

"working time" means any time that the employee is—
( a ) at his or her place of work or at his or her employer's disposal, and
( b ) carrying on or performing the activities or duties of his or her work,"

So it appears to me that "she is technically working" is up for debate. [Sure if I were away for a week for work (as happens now and again) then that'd be me working 168 hours in that week... which I wouldn't count it as work... but I'm a bit weird and don't treat work as work anyway. It's super-happy-fun-time! Yay!]

Darragh29

I'm going to throw this out there...

There is a school of thought that is of the view that a lot of Polish are heading back to Poland, having made a nice few quid for themselves over here in recent years are all of a sudden, lobbing in claims for 4/5 digit figures against employers. Apparently they are going anyway, so why not go out with a bang...

Darragh29

dologhli wrote: »

So it appears to me that "she is technically working" is up for debate. [Sure if I were away for a week for work (as happens now and again) then that'd be me working 168 hours in that week... which I wouldn't count it as work... but I'm a bit weird and don't treat work as work anyway. It's super-happy-fun-time! Yay!]

Well that's grand as per the letter of the law... But if myself and herself wanted to use our own personal time to go to a movie or go for a meal, this isn't open to us because she is at work. According to the letter of the law, she is not engaged in work duties, but in reality, she is also not at leisure to do what she wants, as she would be if she were on her own time...

Now she doesn't go screaming for overtime or a payslip, it's swings and roundabouts. Sometimes she loses time and sometimes she gains time and can leave early on a Friday or come in late on a Monday or whatever. We don't get caught up about it and it doesn't end up on Primetime...

Bearcat

Darragh29 wrote: »

I'm going to throw this out there...

There is a school of thought that is of the view that a lot of Polish are heading back to Poland, having made a nice few quid for themselves over here in recent years are all of a sudden, lobbing in claims for 4/5 digit figures against employers. Apparently they are going anyway, so why not go out with a bang...

a lot of pole child minders that have been let go are lobbing in for compo just for the hell of it to see where they get giving their ex employers endless hear ache re defending and in the majority of cases the compo claims are pure bogus.

leon8v

Bearcat wrote: »

a lot of pole child minders that have been let go are lobbing in for compo just for the hell of it to see where they get giving their ex employers endless hear ache re defending and in the majority of cases the compo claims are pure bogus.

Thread is going off topic here but in all fairness, bogus compo claims are nothing new in this country neither are bogus welfare claims. You cant really blame them, we probably have a reputation for it at this stage.

peasant

Thank you, leon8v !

Lads, let's stay with the trucking business.

alias no.9

Darragh29 wrote: »

Well that's grand as per the letter of the law... But if myself and herself wanted to use our own personal time to go to a movie or go for a meal, this isn't open to us because she is at work. According to the letter of the law, she is not engaged in work duties, but in reality, she is also not at leisure to do what she wants, as she would be if she were on her own time...

Now she doesn't go screaming for overtime or a payslip, it's swings and roundabouts. Sometimes she loses time and sometimes she gains time and can leave early on a Friday or come in late on a Monday or whatever. We don't get caught up about it and it doesn't end up on Primetime...

I don't know what your girlfriend does for a living but I'm assuming she's not a truck driver. The regulations for truck drivers exist to save lives, simple as that. Drivers breaching the limits are at a much greater risk of lapses in concentration and even falling asleep at the wheel. When you loose control of an 18 wheeler, there is a huge probability that someone will die.

niceirishfella

Questionable business practises by these truckin companies but its no secret. I guess tho' its a rock and a hard place situation for truck co's to survive especially back in the boom, and more so now.
The cost of Diesel, insurance, leases etc and the competition out there not only from licenced competitiors but unlicenced toerag operators too.
South African and Eastern European drivers will do 16 or 18/20 hr days without being asked infact, my mate John who runs his own haulage co told me that if they do a 12 hour run and are then arrive back in the yard they come into the office looking for more runs to do.
Maybe they have themselves to blame?
Primetime sensationize a lot of this stuff, with their DARK filming, clever editing and clever promos. And they know how to ambush inarticulate muck savages like Jimmy Quinn (its not hard to be honest) to make good telly.

Darragh29

alias no.9 wrote: »

I don't know what your girlfriend does for a living but I'm assuming she's not a truck driver. The regulations for truck drivers exist to save lives, simple as that. Drivers breaching the limits are at a much greater risk of lapses in concentration and even falling asleep at the wheel. When you loose control of an 18 wheeler, there is a huge probability that someone will die.

Yeah I see the point you are making. I know though that Irish truck drivers also would have the same complaints as the foreign nationals who were interviewed last night have expressed. Interviewing just foreign drivers I think put an overtly racist construction onto the discussion...

kmick

Darragh29 wrote: »

I'm going to throw this out there...

There is a school of thought that is of the view that a lot of Polish are heading back to Poland, having made a nice few quid for themselves over here in recent years are all of a sudden, lobbing in claims for 4/5 digit figures against employers. Apparently they are going anyway, so why not go out with a bang...

Well if employers underpaid/didnt declare then why not. They were the ones in the wrong.

alias no.9

Darragh29 wrote: »

Yeah I see the point you are making. I know though that Irish truck drivers also would have the same complaints as the foreign nationals who were interviewed last night have expressed. Interviewing just foreign drivers I think put an overtly racist construction onto the discussion...

Irish truckers wouldn't put up with the same conditions. Did Prime Time pick companies that only employed foreigners or was it simply a case that they identified the dregs of the industry and that within these companies, things are so bad that Irish truck drivers and even immigrant truck drivers that have been here long enough to know the ropes simply won't work for them? Most likely these companies rely on a steady turnover of newly arrived immigrant drivers.

Darragh29

alias no.9 wrote: »

Irish truckers wouldn't put up with the same conditions. Did Prime Time pick companies that only employed foreigners or was it simply a case that they identified the dregs of the industry and that within these companies, things are so bad that Irish truck drivers and even immigrant truck drivers that have been here long enough to know the ropes simply won't work for them? Most likely these companies rely on a steady turnover of newly arrived immigrant drivers.

I think the solution here is to have stronger protections for whistleblowers. Also, LRC decisions should be made public insofar as where compensation is awarded, the employer should be identified and the payment of the award should be compulsory because at the moment, LRC recommendations are voluntary... Of course I'd say IBEC and their multinational bank rollers would have a lot to say about such an approach...

whiterebel

alias no.9 wrote: »

Irish truckers wouldn't put up with the same conditions. Did Prime Time pick companies that only employed foreigners or was it simply a case that they identified the dregs of the industry and that within these companies, things are so bad that Irish truck drivers and even immigrant truck drivers that have been here long enough to know the ropes simply won't work for them? Most likely these companies rely on a steady turnover of newly arrived immigrant drivers.

Yes they have, but not for the money thats being paid now.

alias no.9

Darragh29 wrote: »

I think the solution here is to have stronger protections for whistleblowers. Also, LRC decisions should be made public insofar as where compensation is awarded, the employer should be identified and the payment of the award should be compulsory because at the moment, LRC recommendations are voluntary... Of course I'd say IBEC and their multinational bank rollers would have a lot to say about such an approach...

I think the key thing is that the payment of compensation be rigerously enforced. If they're just ignoring compensation awards, how can they be expected to act as a deterrent? It's a sad state of affairs but until there is certainty that this behaviour will cost more than compliance with the law, then compliance is a pipe dream.

I.S.T.

Darragh29 wrote: »

I'm going to throw this out there...

There is a school of thought that is of the view that...

You mean this is what you think?

Rowley Birkin QC

Just watched the Prime Time episode there. Never seen a man so caught on the hop as that Jimmy Quinn, it was brilliant.

Have to say I found it extremely disturbing that the kind of work practice that can have a guy driving for 11 days straight is entertained. We all know, some more than others, the dangers that artic lorries pose on the roads. Combine that with the kind of idiotic management shown in PTI last night and it really is worrying.

Darragh29

IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »

You mean this is what you think?

No, I've a mate who is in the transport business and I was talking to him last night and this is what he thinks and he said a few other people have mentioned this to him as well... I'm not saying it is the case or it isn't. I dunno...

Cionád

http://www.rte.ie/news/primetimeinvestigates/

Tis online now

niceirishfella

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh, Jimmy Quinn has stepped down and is going to Sue RTE alledgedly..........

Cionád

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1202/hauliers.html

whiterebel

I'd love to see what he's going to sue them for......They seem to have tuckered him up pretty well.

felim

Anybody know how far into the programme Jimmy Quinn get's caught out? Can't watch all of it right now.

whiterebel

10-15 minutes, IIRC.

Bluetonic

whiterebel wrote: »

10-15 minutes, IIRC.

20 mins for the interview.

Iorana

As a foreign national I must sadly admit that the employment regulations, specially the cooperation between LRC and the Courts are nowhere so weak as in Ireland.
In Ireland it takes about 2 years time to get €500 from the company even the the decition was granted to you by LRC.
The is simply no institution in Ireland that would be interested in helping workers. It all takes too long also. That Brasilian guy for example, I mean he was not paid for over 3 months! If he goes with that to LRC it will take him about 2 years to get any money back!
Why Ireland can't take an example from another countries? Germany has separate work police unit that operates under the Office for Emplyoment (Arbeitsamt). Have you ever heart about abusing of workers rights in Germany?
No, because employers are afraid of doing this - regulations are so clear here, the company face a huge fines + prison even if the don't comply with the employment law. And after receiving a complaint, the work police is on the site next day.

I am very sad after this programm to be honest, I didn't realize how frequent is the abuse in this country.
Also the atmosphere - why do Irish people scream at foreign workers (specially restaurants, magazines), I have never met treatment like this anywhere else. Some supervisors I had were really cruel bastards. In some countries it's illegal also to humiliate the employees, if you are not happy with my work, you can let me go, why do you need to get all your frustration on me?
I must say, it was much more common among female supervisors to have this horrible attitude to foreign workers.

Do you want to have your country built on slave work and misery?
Why Ireland does not want to change anything?

Darragh29

felim wrote: »

Anybody know how far into the programme Jimmy Quinn get's caught out? Can't watch all of it right now.

I had to laugh though when it was put up to him, if ever there was a look on someone's face that said, "I want to get up off this chair and shove that microphone so far up your rectum that you'll be able to take it out your mouth and stick it behind your ear", that was it!

He looked like he was really going to snap!

derry

You only have to look at some the trucking accidents here to see that standards are nearly non existant .

One truck had a trailer get loose and wipe out a car .One truck was traveling so fast that it wiped out several cars .Lots of minors accidents all over the place but the truckers are rarely hurt.Bosses every day make dangerous demands get to there at speeds that exceed the speed limits .Driver crashes but bosses are never in courts .Having sleeping drivers is a major hazard.Companies it seems often make truck driver work extra hours on 3.5 tonne delivery vans which have no tacko as those are classed are cars and so drivers can be working sometimes according my friend in the trade an average of 80 hours plus a week . Also one day off in one month if they are lucky

The standard of the Vans and trucks out there is real scary from what he tells me and he has shown me some faults on what he was driving that day. There is not much he can do about it .If he says he wont drive a faulty truck he will get the boot from the more easy runs he has mostly Dublin region and be stuck back out on arsehole country runs to Derry or similar where he will have to live in the truckif he is lucky or maybe just get the complete boot as there are thousands of drivers ready to replace him screaming out for work now and will work for less than minimum wages

I seen lots of vans and trucks where I worked in 2007 in warehousing and most were clearly death traps.I seen the same driver come into the yard to collect or deliver stuff and clearly the drivers were working sometimes 18 hours days .I wasn't a truck driver and sometimes had to put in the 18 hour shifts in the warehouse yard With such close proximity I knew what trucks and what drivers I loaded with what . I can tell you 80 hours weeks seemd often to be a quite week for the truck drivers and there seemed to be no difference between Irish or non nationals .They both got treated as badly . I know talked to a the drivers a lot and the story was always the same if your have a big morgage wife and kids and on the drip for the car what you gonna do .

Then 2007 best I can tell direct employed van drivers stopped getting so much direct work and instead were getting paid for by the load to cirumvent all regulations even further .Then nearly overnight the majority of the vans started to become owner vans and the money they got was a lot worse than direct employed .Probably gone that way in trucks as well. Warehose changed location to cheaper county in stickville so I was laid off as I couldn't move counties and changed jobs instead .
So I cant say exactly what happened after middle 2007 but my mate told me its competly cowboy out there with trucks and vans from every country in Europe deliving stuff for buttons compared to 2005 rates. Now he says there is no rules out there now except take more coffee to hopefully not fall asleep at the wheel .
Irish companies are bad offenders but eastern Europe companies which operate all year round here just delivering in Irealnd can legally ignore nearly all Irish laws as they use their laws which are less severe than ours .Some Irish trucking companies have even become Polish to circumvent the laws here

Th victims in this mess is the drivers and hapless car accident victims in Ireland
Ireland is not alone with big problems in Germany close to eastern europe and my German friends are non to plussed about it .The carnage on the roads from truck crashes is becoming a huge issue with trucks crashing into cars houses busses trams whatever .Often it is from drivers with fake papers and over the legal drink limits and falling asleep working 100 hours plus a week often for one or two euro an hour pay rates

The new Lisbon treaty from Europe if we agree to it would best I can see have made it completly impossible for Irish trucking companies to exist so all of them would become registered as Polish companies and employ drivers at Polish minimum pay rates which are 1 euro an hour last I heard



If we think it bad now
Its just the problem is coming this way big time

WE ANT SEEN NOTHING YET


Derry

jvc

alias no.9 wrote: »

I don't know what your girlfriend does for a living but I'm assuming she's not a truck driver. The regulations for truck drivers exist to save lives, simple as that. Drivers breaching the limits are at a much greater risk of lapses in concentration and even falling asleep at the wheel. When you loose control of an 18 wheeler, there is a huge probability that someone will die.

This clip was shown on the program

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YljuZzngtc

Very frightening.
I dont know if driver fatigue was the cause of this but its entirely possible

peasant

jvc wrote: »

This clip was shown on the program
Very frightening.
I dont know if driver fatigue was the cause of this but its entirely possible

That clip did the big round through the internet after the accident. As far as I can remember, a broken front axle was the reason for the crash.

1966

Whatever the cause of that accident it just shows how important it is that lorries of that size and smaller are in "safe" hands !

David09

I used to work for one of those companies that were under investigation. The unfair treatment of employees, breaches of minimum wage regulations, non payment of prsi, breaches of health and safety, etc didn't just end with the drivers but also extended to the "in house" truck maintenance crew, of which I was part of...

unkel

jvc wrote: »

This clip was shown on the program

Not sure what kind of barrier that is, but a truck should not be able to go through a standard armco / concrete barrier

Seth Brundle

niceirishfella wrote: »

Primetime sensationize a lot of this stuff, with their DARK filming, clever editing and clever promos. And they know how to ambush inarticulate muck savages like Jimmy Quinn (its not hard to be honest) to make good telly.

Ambush? He was the head of the IRHA and therefore should be knowledgeable about his industry whilst also striving for the best standards for his members.
By all accounts he wasn't up to the job (given the content of interview)!

galwaytt

unkel wrote: »

Not sure what kind of barrier that is, but a truck should not be able to go through a standard armco / concrete barrier

'fraid so - we make truck bodies here, and I can vouch that a 49t truck, at 100kph, will jump just about anything............you're forgetting those guys never braked, and were on the throttle at the time.......

btw, tyres and brakes to pull those up, in yards, haven't been invented yet........